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  1. #1
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    Ace UK and Real Gone Music - Any New Motown-Related Product Ever Coming? Ever?

    Anyone in the know: Does Ace UK have any Motown material CDs in the pipeline? Motown Girls/Men? Anything?

    Admittedly, part of me thinks that the lack of releases directly by Universal has trickled down to Ace UK and Real Gone Music. Someone please tell me I'm wrong and things are planned for release in what remains of 2023 or starting in 2024?

    We've been so lucky for the last 10+ years to have a fairly steady schedule of releases from Universal, Ace UK, and Real Gone Music. Now, it feels like the whole Motown market is considered dead. The way releases have generally stopped in the last few years reminds me of the early-to-mid '90s when it seemed NOTHING Motown was being released. Plus, back then, the internet wasn't really used for marketing the way it is/can be today. It's been a weird feeling not having several upcoming Motown releases on my online wishlist. My bank account may be healthier for it, but my music-loving soul sure feels sad without any upcoming releases to anticipate.
    Last edited by danman869; 09-17-2023 at 09:08 PM. Reason: typo

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    Unfortunately, there's nothing Motown related coming from Ace or Real Gone [or anyone else] at this time. The most recent Motown product from Universal is a 50th Anniversary expanded edition of Marvin Gaye's Let's Get it On on digital platforms.

    I Ain't Gonna Worry: Motown Preps Digital Deluxe for 50th Anniversary of Marvin Gaye's 'Let's Get It On' - The Second Disc

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    Dan,
    I remember reading a post from Keith Hughes about the next Ace Motown planned release. He indicated that it was the next volume of Motown Guys. There seems to have been a delay because of difficulties in obtaining clearances for some selections.
    Also Andy has said that although the anticipated release of an expanded edition of Reflections has never received approval after multiple pleas, there are a few other projects being worked on. What they are and when they shall appear remains a mystery, so please do not lose hope!

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    Vinyl albums seem to be re-released regularly though I personally shan't buy any.

    There are 2 Jackson 5 CDs coming in November from Music On CD - Joyful Jukebox Music and Live! [[in Japan). Each has a separate thread. Music On CD issue Motown stuff on a fairly regular basis but with a heavy concentration on J5/Michael - nonetheless we've also had Marvin Gaye "Stubborn Kind of Fellow", Temptations "With A Lot O'Soul" and Rare Earth "Get Ready".

    Universal in Japan often release batches of CDs including Motown - they released 140 last year - many Motown ones [[including 3 former Hip-O-select titles) were included in their Throwback Soul series - see here -
    https://www.discogs.com/label/2814470-Throwback-Soul

    With next year being Tamla's 65th Anniversary my hopes are on Universal Japan doing another celebratory issue - similar to 5 years ago with "Motown Did It First" - many of those CDs are still available [[try CD Japan at 7.00 each)
    https://www.discogs.com/label/161345...n-Did-It-First

    And earlier this year they issued a batch of CDs by Rare Earth as CD mini-LPs [[though it's fair to say you could seek out the cheaper Culture Factory editions)
    https://www.cdjapan.co.jp/person/182247

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by mysterysinger View Post
    Vinyl albums seem to be re-released regularly though I personally shan't buy any.

    There are 2 Jackson 5 CDs coming in November from Music On CD - Joyful Jukebox Music and Live! [[in Japan). Each has a separate thread. Music On CD issue Motown stuff on a fairly regular basis but with a heavy concentration on J5/Michael - nonetheless we've also had Marvin Gaye "Stubborn Kind of Fellow", Temptations "With A Lot O'Soul" and Rare Earth "Get Ready".

    Universal in Japan often release batches of CDs including Motown - they released 140 last year - many Motown ones [[including 3 former Hip-O-select titles) were included in their Throwback Soul series - see here -
    https://www.discogs.com/label/2814470-Throwback-Soul

    With next year being Tamla's 65th Anniversary my hopes are on Universal Japan doing another celebratory issue - similar to 5 years ago with "Motown Did It First" - many of those CDs are still available [[try CD Japan at 7.00 each)
    https://www.discogs.com/label/161345...n-Did-It-First

    And earlier this year they issued a batch of CDs by Rare Earth as CD mini-LPs [[though it's fair to say you could seek out the cheaper Culture Factory editions)
    https://www.cdjapan.co.jp/person/182247
    You're really a treasure. I had been aware of the Japanese CDs in the "Motown Did It First" series, but I wasn't aware of how extensive the series was. I see more than a few that are going to be automatic purchases right now...

    Thanks for these links!

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    My aim is to please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pj1 View Post
    Dan,
    I remember reading a post from Keith Hughes about the next Ace Motown planned release. He indicated that it was the next volume of Motown Guys. There seems to have been a delay because of difficulties in obtaining clearances for some selections.
    Also Andy has said that although the anticipated release of an expanded edition of Reflections has never received approval after multiple pleas, there are a few other projects being worked on. What they are and when they shall appear remains a mystery, so please do not lose hope!
    Yup, you remember correctly, pj1. We got 2 [[that's TWO) clearances on the nest volume of Motown Guys, nearly a year ago. Since then, nothing ...

  8. #8
    Just as I thought, nothing from nothing leaves nothing! I'm just thankful for what we got

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by keith_hughes View Post
    Yup, you remember correctly, pj1. We got 2 [[that's TWO) clearances on the nest volume of Motown Guys, nearly a year ago. Since then, nothing ...
    Expectations delayed just increase the joy and appreciation when they are finally manifested. In the meantime, whenever I feel low about the pause in releases, I go and stare at my double-purchases of the Marvelettes complete albums box sets and think...'yes, Motown dreams DO come true.'

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    Quote Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance View Post
    Expectations delayed just increase the joy and appreciation when they are finally manifested. In the meantime, whenever I feel low about the pause in releases, I go and stare at my double-purchases of the Marvelettes complete albums box sets and think...'yes, Motown dreams DO come true.'
    Waiting, I know exactly what you mean! I, too, put all my faith in The Marvelettes "Forevermore -- The Complete Motown Albums [[Vol. 2)". Harry assured me it was coming out, but the powers that be would decide when. Weeks went by... months... even years! Then, at long last, it was released -- just in time for Christmas 2011. My Motown dream had finally come true! That's why, despite Motown's current dry spell [[which feels like a never-ending drought), there's still hope for The Originals "Naturally Together", "Definitions", ""Game Called Love", and "Communique". Keep the faith, Waiting. If we wish hard enough, it just might come true!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary View Post
    Waiting, I know exactly what you mean! I, too, put all my faith in The Marvelettes "Forevermore -- The Complete Motown Albums [[Vol. 2)". Harry assured me it was coming out, but the powers that be would decide when. Weeks went by... months... even years! Then, at long last, it was released -- just in time for Christmas 2011. My Motown dream had finally come true! That's why, despite Motown's current dry spell [[which feels like a never-ending drought), there's still hope for The Originals "Naturally Together", "Definitions", ""Game Called Love", and "Communique". Keep the faith, Waiting. If we wish hard enough, it just might come true!
    I hear you and I'm with ya!

  12. #12
    At my time of life there is not much time left! It's now or too late!
    Last edited by copley; 09-20-2023 at 10:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by copley View Post
    At my time of live there is not much time left! It's now or too late!
    I hate to say it, but you're right, Copley. To quote Elvis, "It's now or Never".

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by keith_hughes View Post
    Yup, you remember correctly, pj1. We got 2 [[that's TWO) clearances on the nest volume of Motown Guys, nearly a year ago. Since then, nothing ...
    Hi Keith
    I'd find it really useful if you explained more about "clearance" - i've heard the term used many times in the context of getting releases out, but don't really know what it entails. I assume it is something to do with legal protections and consents, but i'm very vague about it.

    For example, if the new set includes a Tommy Good track, does it involve getting his consent for release, and also all the writers/producers, etc. so all appropriate royalties are paid? If a Jimmy Ruffin track, does it involve getting consents from his Estate? Same thing with groups - if it's the Hit Pack, is it about tracking down each existing member/next of kin so someone cannot subsequently say they hold some form of copyright and didn't consent to its release?

    Or is Clearance more an internal company thing so that in the case of Motown releases UMG have to "sign something off" to protect themselves in law? Is it a simple tick-box exercise, or something very, very, complicated and time consuming?

    Any jargon-busting explanation of this would clarify things for a lot of us, I guess.

  15. #15
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    I am not a lawyer so none of this qualifies as legal advice but --

    There are two separate copyrights involved in the recorded music industry, two separate pieces of the puzzle that can be owned and managed.
    - "The Composition" refers to the idea of the song [[lyrics, melodies, iconic arrangement)
    - "The Master" refers to the actual recorded performance of that underlying composition

    Typically, a songwriter creates the composition, and a recording artist creates the master recording. Typically, the rights to the composition are then managed by a publishing company, and the rights to the master recording are then managed by a record label. While the publisher is out there "working the song" and the label is out there "working the recording," the songwriters and artists can continue to make art without getting bogged down in the business side of things.

    For example - Jobete is the publisher that managed the rights to the underlying composition of "My Girl" - Motown was the label that managed the Temptations' master recording [[technically it would be the Gordy imprint) - but Stax managed Otis Redding's master recording and Hi Records managed Al Green's master recording. All of those different master recordings use the same underlying composition. Jobete as publisher would receive royalties whenever any of those master recordings are pressed/streamed/downloaded, and the royalties are then split and paid out to the songwriters. The label collects money from sales / streams / etc. and pays out to the recording artists [[and potentially producers, arrangers, musicians all depending on the contracts those individuals have with their label).

    "working the song" includes pitching that composition to be recorded by multiple artists [[the more artists who record a song, the more money the songwriter/publisher is likely to make from the song), but also includes pitching that song to be used in film / TV / commercials / video games / etc.

    "working the recording" includes marketing it to the music buying public, promoting it to radio stations, and also pitching that recording to be used in film / TV / commercials / video games / etc.

    Remember that the underlying composition is a separate copyright from the master recording. You can have a song without a recording of that song, it can exist in your head or on paper. You can not have a master recording without an underlying composition.

    This is why you see so many commercials, movies, TV shows, etc. that have songs that we all know, but newly recorded versions - the license to sync the music with the visual media means having to clear the rights from the publisher [[to use the composition) and the label [[to use that specific master recording) - many times it is more affordable for a tv/film/advertisement company to get clearance solely from the publisher and create their own new recording [[hence the new versions of songs for media - think the "california raisins" commercials that were brand new recordings of classic songs).

    Similar to the synchronization license clearance, compilation records have a process they must follow.

    When a compilation album is released by "Label 1" [[like Ace/Kent or Real gone), it may include recordings owned by another label, "Label 2" [[like Motown).

    Label 1 must negotiate and get approval from Label 2 to include the master recording in their compilation. This can include discussions about upfront payments, splits of post-release revenue, whether those revenue splits occur before or after costs are recouped, territories of release, physical vs. digital release, amount of physical pressings, ability to repress if the first run sells well, timeframe for usage, and much much more. Label 1 may also need approval from the publisher if that underlying composition has never before been released to the public, as one of the "copyright controls" of intellectual property ownership in music is controlling how a composition is first presented publicly.

    These negotiations eventually result in clearance for Label 1 to include Label 2's master recording and the Publisher's underlying composition within their compilation album.

    It's a crazy world, but I join the chorus here hoping for more of the music I love to see the light of day!

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    Sorry for the double post, but I believe it is worth its own separate comment here -

    Big thanks to Harry Weinger, Andy Skurow, Keith Hughes, Ady Croasdell, and all the individuals and organizations like Motown, Ace/Kent, Real Gone, Harmless, Charly, Cherry Red, SoulMusic Records and so so many more who do all of this super-nitty-gritty work behind the scenes to bring us the music we love. I'm sure it can't be easy but it is appreciated!

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    Hi Psychedelic Jacques

    I'm so glad Drewschultz88 answered you so fully, and [[as far as I can see) correctly.

    And as Copley has said, who knows whether we shall live long enough to see any more Motown releases. Apart from "Motown Guys" I haven't got any other Motown projects up for clearance, and don't think I'll prep any more until this one is released.

    Thanks for writing.
    Keith

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    Surely the old recordings come out of copyright after 50 years [[or was that changed in the recent past). I know the record companies were trying to do something to old tracks to re-start the 50 year cycle but don't fully know how that worked out.
    Many early year Motown tracks [[& others from different labels) were released on comp CD's over recent years without the need for any licensing deals. I trust the labels involved did pay composer's royalties, but no payment to the original recording company was necessary.

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    I thank Drewschultz88 for the Above explanation.
    However, if Motown own the Publishing [[jobete)and the Masters, shouldn't it work out easier than multi participants?

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    Motown does not own the publishing - Berry Gordy sold off the Jobete catalogue in 3 stages to EMI Music Publishing and it's their parent company, Sony who own it - except that even then it's not that simple - see the mess regarding Ron Miller's Jobete/Stein & Van Stock songs here - https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthrea...Over-Royalties

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    I see that would bring difficulties and it makes sense.
    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by keith_hughes View Post
    Hi Psychedelic Jacques
    ...I haven't got any other Motown projects up for clearance, and don't think I'll prep any more until this one is released....

    Thanks for writing.
    Keith
    ...a new edition of DFTMC would be welcome ...the last edition was 5 years ago in 2018...??

    Thanks for all you do ...and have done ...Keith

    Grape

  23. #23
    Thanks so much Drewschulz88 and Keith for your replies.

    That's helped clarify things, tho' I think I'll have to read it three or four times over for it all to sink in. I never realised how complicated it all was.

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    Whilst waiting for new - have fun with the old - have you got all these releases?

    Click the pics to see much more...

    Soul Music Store USA [[on Amazon) - https://www.amazon.com/shop/soulmusic.com

    Soul Music Store UK [[on Amazon) -
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/shop/soulmusic.com

    And a real good site
    https://soulmusic.com

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    Elemental Music [[watch out as many are vinyl)

    https://www.elemental-music.com/16-soul-funk

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    Culture Factory [[12 pages) - note that the CD mini LP of "Everything Is Everything" is the expanded version.

    https://culturefactory-usa.com/produ...y/cd-mini-lps/

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    I thought that Ivy Jo`s "Is In This Bag" was ready for release is there any way that Ace could take this project over Keith. I would imagine that label copy would have been completed on that.

  33. #33
    I have had an Anthology two disc set in the planning stages and it is completed and ready to release all apart from the fact that it is stuck in the clearance system for the past nine years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul_nixon View Post
    I have had an Anthology two disc set in the planning stages and it is completed and ready to release all apart from the fact that it is stuck in the clearance system for the past nine years.
    9 years! Seriously Paul? That's got to be a record. You'll need to update the date in the liner notes on the artwork!

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    Just fire ahead and put in under copyright control.

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    Copyright Control is a catch-all term used when the ownership of a copyright or the publishing company managing that copyright can not be identified. In the case of the Ivy Jo project I imagine the ownership of the masters and publishing are clear. I would LOVE to see the Ivy Jo anthology released! Ivy is such a wonderful writer and singer, and he is missed.
    Last edited by drewschultz88; 09-30-2023 at 09:00 AM.

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by lakedistrictlad1 View Post
    9 years! Seriously Paul? That's got to be a record. You'll need to update the date in the liner notes on the artwork!
    Sounds like a good idea let's hope I live that long

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    Would it be possible Paul to provide the track listing to give us something to dream about, please!

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Polhill View Post
    Would it be possible Paul to provide the track listing to give us something to dream about, please!
    I'm away from home for a week or two but will try and fit it out when I return

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    Oh I`m fizzing at the bung!

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