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  1. #1
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    #1 Biggest Female Group Ever?

    Watching “CBS Morning” and an entertainment reporter is talking a new documentary about TLC. And he called TLC “the biggest selling top female singing group of all time.”

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    the problem is if you simply count records sold, a more recent group like TLC could rank higher. there were simply less people buying music in the US in the 60s versus the 90s. not to mention the major expansion of international sales. while "adjust for inflation" isn't exactly the right phrase, that's basically what you need to do. TLC never dominated the overall music scene the way the Supremes did. sure TLC had big hits and sold a lot but it just doesn't equate to the same situation

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    The problem is the Supremes official record sales have never been released by Motown.
    Only a few have been certified by RIAA.
    supremes anthology
    Supremes join the temptations
    TCB
    Stop in the name of love
    Baby love
    You can't hurry love
    I'm gonna make you love me
    Someday we'll be together.
    As far as I know are the only certified gold records.
    These sales have been based on the fact Motown didn't sign on with RIAA until 1976. So these certifications,are from sales since 1976 and sales prior are not counted.
    Berry Gordy / universal Motown could change this but releasing the info..
    They refuse to do so therefore creating doubt of sales. I personally feel most of the supremes catalogue did well.

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    Plus it is not clear if the sales record are complete, who has them and if they still exist from the old days

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    If you count all the countless greatest hits collections, I think the Supremes outsold all the other female groups. I still hear the Supremes' stuff all the time, but TLC? Not so much. No offense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyC View Post
    If you count all the countless greatest hits collections, I think the Supremes outsold all the other female groups. I still hear the Supremes' stuff all the time, but TLC? Not so much. No offense.
    Bobby, you aren’t offending me. I am 65, soon 66, so I grew up in the 1960s — The Supremes were HUGE, as we here know. It bugs me that some fly-by-night entertainment “reporter” [[and I use that term loosely) likely didn’t do any research and just accepted what the publicist for this TLC documentary told him.

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    TLC has been saying this for years, although recently I think they have amended it to the biggest-selling American girl group.

    Unfortunately, as daviddh wrote, Motown wasn't a member of the RIAA during the Supremes' reign so the majority of their records were never officially certified. It doesn't mean they didn't qualify. It just means that Motown didn't open their books to the RIAA so that actual sales could be tallied. They have done so for some releases in recent years, however.

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    recently , they reported elvis wasnt the biggest artist and ,i think it was garth brooks or michael jackson because they dont coount his early RCA recordings because RCA had not signed on with RIIA until the 60s ,so his 50s catalogue was not counted.
    so of course counting his 50s sales,he is the biggest seller
    to me ,its people trying to rewrite history

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    what suprises me is the supremes hits albums such as Where Did Our Love Go and A Go Go , and t heir Hits album, have not been certified??,thats over 12 million in sales there alone

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    Quote Originally Posted by zani57 View Post
    Bobby, you aren’t offending me. I am 65, soon 66, so I grew up in the 1960s — The Supremes were HUGE, as we here know. It bugs me that some fly-by-night entertainment “reporter” [[and I use that term loosely) likely didn’t do any research and just accepted what the publicist for this TLC documentary told him.
    My understanding is that TLC's claim is fact, vs speculation regarding the Supremes. I say good for TLC for wearing the crown honorably. There is certainly a case to be made for the honor belonging to the Supremes, but it would all be speculation because of Motown's failure to account for sales during the group's most successful period. That's not TLC's fault, and if they can prove their sales- which I believe they can- they get the official distinction as being the biggest sellers. That distinction, however, cannot erase or understate the Supremes' legacy, and it stands to reason that the Supremes probably unofficially outsold the other female groups, they just can't prove it. That's on Motown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    what suprises me is the supremes hits albums such as Where Did Our Love Go and A Go Go , and t heir Hits album, have not been certified??,thats over 12 million in sales there alone
    I think the GH set could very well unofficially be a diamond certified album if the accounting was accurate, taking into account how it initially sold on release and how many copies have been sold over the years up to now. I don't know about WDOLG and AGG selling six million a piece. WDOLG was an extremely popular album and was on the charts for a long time, so it's likely it sold in the millions during that initial run, so who knows?

    But I thought I read where all the hit singles from "Where Did Our Love Go" to "Floy Joy" have all been officially certified platinum. I'm assuming some of this is in the age of downloaded music.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I think the GH set could very well unofficially be a diamond certified album if the accounting was accurate, taking into account how it initially sold on release and how many copies have been sold over the years up to now. I don't know about WDOLG and AGG selling six million a piece. WDOLG was an extremely popular album and was on the charts for a long time, so it's likely it sold in the millions during that initial run, so who knows?

    But I thought I read where all the hit singles from "Where Did Our Love Go" to "Floy Joy" have all been officially certified platinum. I'm assuming some of this is in the age of downloaded music.
    I'm not sure how they count downloads but the RIAA site only lists two Supremes singles as platinum:

    I'M GONNA MAKE YOU LOVE ME
    SOMEDAY WE'LL BE TOGETHER

    The rest of their RIAA certifications can be found here:

    https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?...search_section

    Back in 1999, there was a motherload of Tempts releases certified gold and platinum by the RIAA, probably due to the success of the miniseries the year before. I figured the same would happen for the Supremes but it didn't.
    Last edited by reese; 06-05-2023 at 09:56 PM.

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    The numbers are there for TLC. Those are the facts. They can make that claim; however like what RanRan79 said, is it official when the Supremes true numbers are unknown? In 1972, Merv Griffin stated the Supremes sold 60 million records - where he got that information is unknown but likely provided to his show by Motown. I imagine in the 50 years since, they’ve most certainly added tens of millions to it if that number was accurate. I’ve read speculation the Supremes sold 100 million records and it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if the true amount of sales are close or exceed that. I find it hard to believe they sold anything less than 50 million. Sales below that number are just too low considering their popularity, records released, hits, and exposure. The likelihood is the Supremes are the best selling girl group of all-time but until we get the true accounting of sales, TLC is allowed to claim that title.

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    Agree with all the above and a true accounting will never happen
    - too much time has passed, who knows where the records went and if they were accurate way back or now

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    Red face

    The topic of this thread is NUMBER ONE BIGGEST FEMALE GROUP EVER. i wonder how far back "ever" goes.

    The Andrews Sisters were a very popular female singing group of the 1940s. They sang swing and boogie-woogie tunes in close harmony and sold millions of copies. They also appeared in films and performed for the troops during World War II. According to Wikipedia, they have sold an estimated 80 million records. According to Britannica, they were one of the most popular American musical acts of the 1940s. According to Encyclopedia.com, they had 20 Top Ten hits between 1938 and 1950.

    There was no RIAA back then and for the Supremes, Berry did not allow auditing. But I don't think any other group can touch the popularity of the Supremes or Andrews Sisters. Both sold tons of records, were very popular on record, radio, tv, concerts, clubs and internationally. Both groups were so popular that many people knew them by their individual names, Diana, Flo and Mary and Patti, Maxene and Laverne.

    If you check multiple sources, they seem to disagree with each other. So maybe the answer is just personal preference. My preference is a tie between the Supremes and Andrews as most popular group of all time Probably a generational thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milven View Post
    The topic of this thread is NUMBER ONE BIGGEST FEMALE GROUP EVER. i wonder how far back "ever" goes.

    The Andrews Sisters were a very popular female singing group of the 1940s. They sang swing and boogie-woogie tunes in close harmony and sold millions of copies. They also appeared in films and performed for the troops during World War II. According to Wikipedia, they have sold an estimated 80 million records. According to Britannica, they were one of the most popular American musical acts of the 1940s. According to Encyclopedia.com, they had 20 Top Ten hits between 1938 and 1950.

    There was no RIAA back then and for the Supremes, Berry did not allow auditing. But I don't think any other group can touch the popularity of the Supremes or Andrews Sisters. Both sold tons of records, were very popular on record, radio, tv, concerts, clubs and internationally. Both groups were so popular that many people knew them by their individual names, Diana, Flo and Mary and Patti, Maxene and Laverne.

    If you check multiple sources, they seem to disagree with each other. So maybe the answer is just personal preference. My preference is a tie between the Supremes and Andrews as most popular group of all time Probably a generational thing.
    Very happy you pointed out the Sisters.

    They were incredibly popular and if you adjusted for total record sales, they probably had a larger % of total market sales than the Supremes. This is one reason I don’t pay much attention to websites/clickbait that do these sort of things. Almost none of them standardize either number of discs or sales for the total market [[largely bc most companies didn’t report until the 70s). You can’t compare an artist selling 80 million records in 1940 to one selling anything in 2023. The market is so dramatically larger. Yet, we get these “best of”, “top”, “number one” lists all over.

    You hit the nail on the head when you said “personal preference”. That’s the single largest determining factor, yet we all like to see it when our favorite makes the list. Fun, but not really that informative.

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    I also heard the TLC claim and it is laughable. They may rank in the Top Ten best selling girl groups but it would be toward the bottom.

    And you guys are correct about records not selling as much in the 40s, 50s and 60s as they did after. Also all accountings of these sales were done manually and are highly inaccurate.

    In terms of longevity and consistency I'd have to put my money on the Andrews Sisters being the most successful female group. Their popularity and record sales lasted three decades and they still sell in small numbers.

    The Supremes record sales in big numbers lasted about 7 years. Their sales in recent years spike up and down but they can stand close to the Andrews Sisters but probably not above them.

    Many people fail to list The Pointer Sisters who are well up into the Top Ten as well. They had a good ten year run of healthy sales and popularity. The McGuire Sisters were popular for about a ten year period but they didn't sell records like other girl groups of their time.

    Going into the 90s and beyond, Expose, En Vogue, TLC, etc, sold lots of records. But the industry was different. Compared to the Supremes there were far less releases on those groups. A good year for the Supremes were four hit singles and at least two strong charting albums. In the 90s and beyond an act would have one year of several hits and one hit lp and then go two or more years without issuing another set. Record companies today cut back on useless recordings to concentrate on keeping an album release and accompanying singles in the best selling charts for longer lengths to get the most profit from it. Prior to that a record company would flood the market with a hit lp on an act and then release accompanying sets which served to only take the wind out of the sales of the major release. Take the Where Did Our Love Go lp. It sailed into the Top 5 on all the major charts. Then Gordy flooded the market with Liverpool, CW & Pop, and Sam Cooke which distracted from the sales of WDOLG. It probably would have spent several weeks at No 1 and sales would have greatly increased had he not done that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan View Post
    Many people fail to list The Pointer Sisters who are well up into the Top Ten as well.
    VERY true!

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    Never heard of TLC.

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    As a teenager of the 1990's, one couldn't escape TLC's popularity and I still like their music. That said, I LOVE the Supremes more and listen to them almost daily. TLC, maybe a couple times a year, haha!
    Darin

  21. #21
    It looks like TLC may officially be the biggest selling girl-group in the US [not accounting for The Supremes' uncertified sales], but I think if we are speaking international sales, The Spice Girls may be the biggest? I saw that TLC have had international sales of 60 million and the Spice Girls are somewhere between 80 to 100+ million, internationally.

    I've noticed any mention of the Spice Girls on this forum usually makes some people flip their wigs, but I've always loved them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carlo View Post
    I've noticed any mention of the Spice Girls on this forum usually makes some people flip their wigs, but I've always loved them.
    I think it's because the Andantes were on their records too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carlo View Post
    It looks like TLC may officially be the biggest selling girl-group in the US [not accounting for The Supremes' uncertified sales], but I think if we are speaking international sales, The Spice Girls may be the biggest? I saw that TLC have had international sales of 60 million and the Spice Girls are somewhere between 80 to 100+ million, internationally.

    I've noticed any mention of the Spice Girls on this forum usually makes some people flip their wigs, but I've always loved them.
    Lol well Carlo I can admit that I do like their song "Too Much".

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    TLC can claim this cause their label LaFace was a member of the RIAA from the start. The RIAA founded in 1952 but didn't begin certifying recordings until 1958 and all were from MAJOR labels like RCA, Capitol and CBS. Tamla Records was founded in 1959 and like many independent labels of the time didn't join the RIAA because that would mean a money loss and many founders of these smaller labels did not wanna pay a fee for a certification so this is why so many Motown recordings were not accounted for when it came to sales.

    J. Randy Taraborelli actually tried to solve this sales dilemma in "Call Her Miss Ross" and ended up admitting to making errors but still concluded only two of the Supremes' songs were actually million sellers [[despite the original Supremes claiming otherwise). In fact, when Motown finally joined the RIAA organization in 1977, many of the classic acts were left behind while more later artists were able to actually get gold records.

    To this day, only one of the Jackson 5's 17 hit singles [[that includes the four number ones they scored with Motown) is certified while only one of their albums was certified. The same is said of many of Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye's albums during their heydays. Smokey Robinson only begin to get RIAA certifications after Motown joined RIAA but none of his older records, either solo or with the Miracles has been certified.

    The only acts to be certified with their Motown recordings for the most part [[classic era) were Stevie and the Temptations. Most of Diana's was from RCA and those were few and far between.

    So really it's difficult to determine the sales.

    TLC could because their albums' sales were easily traceable.

    To this day, TLC remains one of only two female recording groups to have a diamond album [[the other act is the Chicks). As mentioned the Pointer Sisters also managed to get lucky with getting their recordings certified, not to the degree of TLC but yeah.

    That's why folks just go on and say the Supremes are the most successful girl group based off the number of number one hits they had. But I doubt this sales thing will ever get solved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carlo View Post
    It looks like TLC may officially be the biggest selling girl-group in the US [not accounting for The Supremes' uncertified sales], but I think if we are speaking international sales, The Spice Girls may be the biggest? I saw that TLC have had international sales of 60 million and the Spice Girls are somewhere between 80 to 100+ million, internationally.

    I've noticed any mention of the Spice Girls on this forum usually makes some people flip their wigs, but I've always loved them.
    If I'm not mistaken, their debut album "Spiceworld" is the most successful album worldwide by a girl group in music history. Something like 25 million copies worldwide. For a while they were like the 1990s Supremes - except for the fact that all of them sang a lead vocal lol and they had multiple hits on that album and that "girl power!" stuff was pretty iconic.

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