The Supremes 8 Days A Week

[RanRan79]

One can ‘what if’ until the cows can home. My personal opinion being that Diana was 80% of the reason the group was the success it was. Both Oprah and Barbara Walters have said that although all three women were great, it was Diana that caught the eye.
If you take Diana Ross out of the scenario and replace her with someone else what are you left with. Her unique voice was the driving force behind those mega hits, not the background harmonies as nice as they are. I’m not saying Flo and Mary weren’t great in doing what they did because they were. What I’m saying is that in a scenario where you have two other non ugly women supporting the lead singer, the story of the Supremes would probably have been much the same. Just my opinion.

No one questioned whether it was your opinion or if your opinion is wrong. As you say we can "what if" all day, the fact is that the Supremes as we know it was Flo, Diana and Mary, and that each lady was an invaluable component to the success of the group. No amount of "what iffing" is going to change that fact. But for me, and just the way I've come to understand life, any change in the cast of characters- be it family, friend circle, relationship, even musical group- means the story changes. We are not robots, programmed to be the same and do the same. Does Diana Ross' Supremes succeed with other women? Maybe. Probably. But would the story be the same? I maintain no, it would not. You feel differently and that's cool too. We just have to agree to disagree on this one and find our common ground with our belief that "Run, Run, Run" was the greatest song the group ever released.

[sup_fan]

One can ‘what if’ until the cows can home. My personal opinion being that Diana was 80% of the reason the group was the success it was. Both Oprah and Barbara Walters have said that although all three women were great, it was Diana that caught the eye.
If you take Diana Ross out of the scenario and replace her with someone else what are you left with. Her unique voice was the driving force behind those mega hits, not the background harmonies as nice as they are. I’m not saying Flo and Mary weren’t great in doing what they did because they were. What I’m saying is that in a scenario where you have two other non ugly women supporting the lead singer, the story of the Supremes would probably have been much the same. Just my opinion.

i agree with you that were it not for Diana Ross, we probably wouldn't have had a Supremes' as successful

but my point earlier is that were it not for the Supremes', we might not have had a DR as successful

Ran stated that if DR had been a soloist in 61 or so, that she probably still would have made it. I'm not 100% sure. Diana was weird, different, unique. her rail-thin look, her mannerisms, her very nasal voice. I think because she was so odd, you needed the group setting to help balance that out. by herself it might have been just too much. but because she was part of this very talented group, it gave her this framework to refine her talents, to grow, to develop.

the other female vocalists were, for the most part, talented women. attractive. but none of them had the "it factor" that DMF. all 3 had this immense talent. it's just that DR was this radically unique talent AND had this major drive/ambition AND had this major work ethic. that's what elevated her above M and F but DMF were all already elevated from the others.

there's a story/quote from i think Mabel John that said when she started, Diana was a diamond but totally in the rough. not polished. a diamond right out of the ground so to speak. her diamond would always shine but it was once this diamond was set upon the lush, rich velvet background of M and F that the true magnificence of the Diana Diamond shone.

[RanRan79]

Sup your evaluation of Diana set against Flo and Mary is perfect. However, when I said without them that Diana could still make it, I didn't necessarily mean she was going to be DIANA ROSS right away. Detroit seems to have had record labels on nearly every street corner. Diana was clearly a gifted singer, so yeah, I do think 1961 Diana could have walked into a couple of those labels, sang a song, and then signed to a contract.

Remember, most of what we have of Diana as an entertainer on stage or in front of a camera is after years of perfecting her craft [[along with Flo and Mary). From what I gather, even at that early stage of the late 50s and early 60s, Diana had a girlish energy and bounce that was eye catching, along with her unique sound. I can definitely imagine a scenario where that early Diana catches on with the early 60s teen girl sound. Couldn't you hear her singing "Gee Whiz" or "Johnny Angel"?

But in order to be who she eventually became, yeah, she was going to need a ton more work, years worth. I suspect it would have taken her longer to get there alone without Flo and Mary, because one of the things I feel helped elevate each lady was her ability to play off of as well as "compete" against the other two. Without that constant pushing, Diana probably would have had many years before she emerged a high class act.

But that initial early period, she could have made some noise on her own. That teeny bopper crowd clearly wasn't picky.

[Ollie9]

i agree with you that were it not for Diana Ross, we probably wouldn't have had a Supremes' as successful

but my point earlier is that were it not for the Supremes', we might not have had a DR as successful

Ran stated that if DR had been a soloist in 61 or so, that she probably still would have made it. I'm not 100% sure. Diana was weird, different, unique. her rail-thin look, her mannerisms, her very nasal voice. I think because she was so odd, you needed the group setting to help balance that out. by herself it might have been just too much. but because she was part of this very talented group, it gave her this framework to refine her talents, to grow, to develop.

the other female vocalists were, for the most part, talented women. attractive. but none of them had the "it factor" that DMF. all 3 had this immense talent. it's just that DR was this radically unique talent AND had this major drive/ambition AND had this major work ethic. that's what elevated her above M and F but DMF were all already elevated from the others.

there's a story/quote from i think Mabel John that said when she started, Diana was a diamond but totally in the rough. not polished. a diamond right out of the ground so to speak. her diamond would always shine but it was once this diamond was set upon the lush, rich velvet background of M and F that the true magnificence of the Diana Diamond shone.

Nicely stated sup. I do agree that Diana needed the framework of the Supremes to fully explore her own talents. In 61 her voice had a lot of developing yet to do, so not not sure she would have made that much of a splash as a solo.
She always had that theatrical, charismatic quality which you define as the “it factor”. It was that quality and voice that took the group to another level.

[Ollie9]

We just have to agree to disagree on this one and find our common ground with our belief that "Run, Run, Run" was the greatest song the group ever released.

Aren't we forgetting....
”Are you just a breathtaking
first sight soul shaking
one night love making
next day heartbreaking guy”.

Ironically when discussing the merits of Flo and Mary, my most favourite Supremes song has to be the emotion packed “Love Child”.

[Spreadinglove21]

I suspect if groups weren't a big thing in the early 60s Berry would have tried to sign Diana as a solo and Diana would have ditched the other girls to take her opportunity. In fact if singing groups weren't a big deal in the neighborhoods, Diana probably would have never have joined a group in the first place. I believe her father was skeptical about Diana being in a group as he didn't think she had a "group mentality" as she was self centered.

[Boogiedown]

Except that the whole girl group
thing gave a good cover for the screwing around .
The parents of Diana might not have liked so much attention going to their daughter from this older record guy promising her the moon, not to mention his wife.

[psychedelic jacques]

I presume that, over the years, the vaults have been searched and searched, and that no evidence has been found that they ever recorded a studio version of 8DAW?

[RanRan79]

I suspect if groups weren't a big thing in the early 60s Berry would have tried to sign Diana as a solo and Diana would have ditched the other girls to take her opportunity. In fact if singing groups weren't a big deal in the neighborhoods, Diana probably would have never have joined a group in the first place. I believe her father was skeptical about Diana being in a group as he didn't think she had a "group mentality" as she was self centered.

Groups were a big deal, but so was being a good soloist. Solo stars were still a thing, and Gordy certainly had his share of solo artists at that time. If he was as enamored with Diana as is always claimed, and wasn't the least bit interested in any of the rest of their voices, why not pull her aside and extend the offer? And then he signs the group- after several months of deliberation- and for the first year and almost a half of their Motown career, he releases one single on Diana and one on Flo. I have little doubt he was most intrigued by Diana's voice, but he signed the group on the strength of the group, not Diana, IMO.

I do believe Diana would have jumped ship to sign as a solo. I also believe Florence would have done the same thing. I don't think Mary would have done that.

[RanRan79]

I presume that, over the years, the vaults have been searched and searched, and that no evidence has been found that they ever recorded a studio version of 8DAW?

Presumably, but as the guys have always cautioned us: never say never. Surprises show up quite a bit. There are tapes that are mislabeled and tapes that sometimes have surprises mixed in with other things. That's why I don't ever buy into the "vault has been scrapped bare" thinking.

[sup_fan]

Groups were a big deal, but so was being a good soloist. Solo stars were still a thing, and Gordy certainly had his share of solo artists at that time. If he was as enamored with Diana as is always claimed, and wasn't the least bit interested in any of the rest of their voices, why not pull her aside and extend the offer? And then he signs the group- after several months of deliberation- and for the first year and almost a half of their Motown career, he releases one single on Diana and one on Flo. I have little doubt he was most intrigued by Diana's voice, but he signed the group on the strength of the group, not Diana, IMO.

I do believe Diana would have jumped ship to sign as a solo. I also believe Florence would have done the same thing. I don't think Mary would have done that.

i think had Diana been 5 years older or so, he might have considered signing her as a solo. his female star was going to have to play night clubs and bars, tours, etc. she would have had to be 21+.

at the time, girl groups had just exploded onto the scene and so every label was racing to sign a few and cash in.

my guess is that Berry was absolutely intrigued by Diana in 1960 but he was also pleased with the idea that he could maybe get a hit or two in the girl group genre. they all had a spark and magic. and then he probably was thinking "let's see if this interesting and unusual Diane Ross can grow into something" It was her determination, work ethic, spunk and talent that shown through not at the audition but throughout the first few years that caught his attention. he knew something was there but probably didn't really know what. and "it" probably wasn't even fully formed. it was just that Berry saw this "potential"

[lucky2012]

i think had Diana been 5 years older or so, he might have considered signing her as a solo. his female star was going to have to play night clubs and bars, tours, etc. she would have had to be 21+.

at the time, girl groups had just exploded onto the scene and so every label was racing to sign a few and cash in.

my guess is that Berry was absolutely intrigued by Diana in 1960 but he was also pleased with the idea that he could maybe get a hit or two in the girl group genre. they all had a spark and magic. and then he probably was thinking "let's see if this interesting and unusual Diane Ross can grow into something" It was her determination, work ethic, spunk and talent that shown through not at the audition but throughout the first few years that caught his attention. he knew something was there but probably didn't really know what. and "it" probably wasn't even fully formed. it was just that Berry saw this "potential"

Good point about age, sup_fan. In another thread, I'd brought up Carla Thomas' 1960 hit Gee Whiz [Look Ath His Eyes] as a song or type of song that the early Supremes could have done, in particular a young Diana Ross, maybe even as a solo. Carla's young voice is remarkably similar to Diana's in tone and clarity.

But yeah, both were too young for night clubs and tours. I wonder if Berry Gordy was envisioning Mary Wells as his crossover star at that early time.

I agree he was probably intrigued by Diana's voice, attitude and work ethic. I can't recall where, but I remember reading both he & Smokey Robinson were puzzling/guessing what to do with Diana's "sound" in those early days.

[reese]

But yeah, both were too young for night clubs and tours. I wonder if Berry Gordy was envisioning Mary Wells as his crossover star at that early time.

I think he may have been. Mary recorded quite a few standards during her time at Motown and could have done venues like the Copa. Getting her on the Steve Allen Show might have been a move in that direction.

[BobbyC]

I think this clip is a bit amateurish, probably because of their aqe and inexperience. I mean look at how much they improved in just a year or so. That being said, I find this performance kind of cute.

[Spreadinglove21]

I think this clip is a bit amateurish, probably because of their aqe and inexperience. I mean look at how much they improved in just a year or so. That being said, I find this performance kind of cute.

Since this was only performed for this show, they probably didn't have much time to put together and rehearse the routine. I doubt they had a few days or a week to work on this and this wasn't in their act, and does anyone know if it became part of their act after this performance, even if for a short while? I believe Sullivan and Hollywood Palace allowed for more rehearsal time.

[BobbyC]

You're probably right but I see it more like they weren't very polished yet but well on their way. All's well that ends well