Revisiting Return to Love - the Promoters Tried to Tie Diana Down for 5 Years

[jobeterob]

https://www.scherrieandsusayeformers...hael-p-coleman

[jobeterob]

EXCLUSIVE! Revisiting Diana Ross and The Supremes’ Return To Love Tour, 20 Years Later
It’s been 20 years since the incomparable Diana Ross announced her Return To Love tour with the equally incredible Scherrie Payne and Lynda Lawrence, two Supremes who had joined the group after Ross launched her solo career in 1970. The trio promised to revisit all of the amazing music of Motown’s most successful group, during a tour that was to have included all of the women who had been…well, supreme.

Founding member Mary Wilson opted out of the tour, as did Cindy Birdsong, who had replaced founder Florence Ballard in 1967. But in typical Ross fashion, there was absolutely no mountain high enough to keep the diva — and the iconic music — from Motown fans, so Lawrence, Payne, and Ross hit the road.


Lawrence, Ross, and Payne at their press conference, announcing their Return To Love tour in 2000.
The Return To Love tour opened in Philadelphia on June 14, 2000 and was scheduled to play in 30 cities before wrapping up in Las Vegas, but it wasn’t to be. The tour was cancelled by mid-summer, leaving Ross & The Supremes bruised. Many faithful fans, stateside and across the globe, lost an opportunity to see a phenomenal, nostalgic show.

Predictably, the Return To Love tour was a showcase for Ross, but it was also a chance to see Payne and Lawrence shine. During one segment of their Detroit stop, this writer worried that Ross might be upstaged by her sterling Supremes! And the onstage chemistry between the three divas was a joy to experience.


Payne, Ross, and Lawrence.
Ross didn’t return calls for comment for this feature, but as any Supreme would have Ross’ back, Lawrence and Payne did! They were as warm and giving by phone as they have always been on stage, and they graciously agreed to give us a glimpse behind the curtain of one of the century’s greatest, albeit shortest, tours.

MEET SCHERRIE PAYNE: “I’d have been a fool to turn that tour down!”

Before I asked Payne about the Return To Love tour, I wanted to know how the diminutive songstress mustered the courage, in 1973, to replace Supremes’ lead singer Jean Terrell, who had replaced Ross just three years earlier.

“I wasn’t that confident when I got the call from Mary Wilson,” Payne recalled by phone. “I was dating Lamont Dozier [one third of the iconic songwriting and production team Holland-Dozier-Holland], and he’d run into Mary at a party. She told him that Jean had left the group, and The Supremes were looking for another lead singer.”

“He suggested me, and when Mary called me, I was in shock,” Payne continued. “I told her I was interested in the gig, but I hung up the phone and said ‘This is The Supremes! I can’t do it!’ My mother sat me down and gave me that typical mother pep talk, and built me up.”

“I got on a plane to LA that Saturday morning. Cindy and her husband, Charles, picked me up at the airport, and we went straight to Mary’s house. I didn’t know that they’d booked a Supremes gig just a few days later, at the New Mexico State Fair.”

“So I didn’t have a chance to be nervous, because I had so much to learn! The routines, the lyrics…but it was a lot of fun. And Mary & Cindy were just great. They helped me in every way they could, and they accepted me right away.”

By 1977, Wilson decided to follow in Ross’ formidable footsteps and pursue her own solo career. “That was devastating,” Payne recalled.

According to Payne, The Supremes considered several potential replacements for Wilson, including Michael Jackson’s older sister, La Toya Jackson! Ultimately, Motown decided to retire The Supremes, as the group no longer had an original member.

Payne and Lawrence bounced back and began touring as the Former Ladies of The Supremes, keeping the trio’s legacy alive, and eventually attracting the attention of Ross and the Return To Love tour.

“I got a call from Scott Sanders, who was Diana’s tour producer, saying Diana had asked whether I’d like to join the tour,” Payne remembered. “I thought maybe, with Mary and Cindy being on the tour, I was going to be a fourth voice behind the curtain, but I didn’t care!”

“Somewhere along the line, negotiations with Mary and Cindy had broken down, and Diana ended up choosing me and Linda to join her, as the two of us had been singing together.”

It had to have been enough of a challenge to replace Terrell as the lead singer of Supremes, but to take the stage with the Queen Of Motown herself? Given Ross’ reputation in some circles, I had to ask Payne what it was like to work with her.

“We had a great time,” Payne recalled of working with Ross. “I know she had a bad rep with some people…but she was wonderful to us, and that’s what I can speak about. Diana couldn’t have been more wonderful.”


Payne, Ross, and Lawrence.
I asked Payne about the trio’s feelings when the Return To Love tour was abruptly cancelled after fewer than a dozen dates.

“It was hard, for all of us,” Payne shared. “I cried. We never got to finish it. But it had nothing to do with Mary — the ‘Mary fans’ gloated about the show being cancelled.”

The end of the Return To Love tour had nothing to do with Mary Wilson? That’s not a story that’s been widely told — but we’ll get to that in a bit!

“Some of them gave me the most hateful stares [while we were on tour], “ Payne said of Mary Wilson’s “fans.” “It wasn’t my fault. I had nothing to do with what went on between Diana and Mary, and I’d have been a fool to turn that tour down!”

[jobeterob]

MEET LYNDA LAWRENCE: “Mary Wilson doesn’t understand the ‘business’ of show business!”

Lawrence, who’d been singing background for Stevie Wonder, felt the same way. She remembers getting the call to join the Return To Love tour like it was yesterday. But unlike the call that Payne received, Lawrence’s call was from a little further up the chain of command — and she almost hung up on her!

“I got a call one Saturday or Sunday, and I had a facial on,” Lawrence recalled with a smile. “A lot of times, fans will call and change their voice, to try to fool me. Someone said ‘Hi! May I speak to Lynda? This is Diana Ross.’ “

“I said ‘Sure, right! Look, I have a facial on so I can’t crack it. Stop making me laugh! Who is this?’ She said ‘Lynda, this is Diana Ross!’ So that’s how we started. And from then on, it became one of the best things I’ve done in my career.”

“Diana is a sweetheart, and she’s a great mother,” Lawrence continued. “She’s a really genuine person, and I loved that. And what she loved about Scherrie and me was our camaraderie. When Diana was in The Supremes, she didn’t have that kind of camaraderie with Mary & Cindy, or Mary & Florence, especially. I said to her once ‘Listen, if you need anything while we’re on tour, just ask Scherrie. She carries everything in her purse.’ And Diana fell out laughing.”

“When we started rehearsing for the tour, I noticed that Diana had people for everything, because Diana runs her own show. I LOVED that. A lot of people, especially men in the business, really resented her for that, but I applauded her for it.”

“We worked hard, and we wanted the tour to be good. All three of us were in a very harmonious thought pattern, because we all wanted it to work. We all gave it 200%.”

“I loved the gowns,” Lawrence recalled of the trademark, glamorous frocks that Ross & The Supremes sported during the Return To Love tour. “When we wore the dresses with the cracked mirror, and we stood up, the expression on my mother’s face I will never forget. She was so excited, and told me later that she’d never seen anything like that in her life. For me, that was everything.”


Lawrence, Ross, and Payne. Photo courtesy of Jim Saphin.
“And I remember that Diana loved that there were specific songs that I absolutely adored! She’d tell the audience “This is Lynda’s favorite song” as we started ‘Love Is Here And Now You’re Gone.’ All of those songs had deep, deep lyrics — really incredible music, but lyrics that will never die.”

“It was an amazing time, and I’m very, very thankful that I had a small part in it.” Lawrence said. “It was a tour that should have continued. It really should have.”

The End Of The Return To Love

Weeks before Diana Ross & The Supremes took the stage for the Return To Love tour, fans watched televised interviews with Wilson, who had opted out of the tour due to a perceived lack of respect and a multimillion dollar offer to join Ross & The Supremes that she deemed “unfair.” Wilson had nothing positive to say about the tour or the three featured performers…which was odd, especially given she had enjoyed a professional and personal relationship with Lawrence.

“I never allowed negative anything to stop me from doing whatever it is that I need to do,” Lawrence asserted, with a mettle that mirrors Ross’ own. “So I immediately turn it off. For that reason, I would not allow anything that Mary said to affect me.”

“But it affected me because it affected Diana. Her children were young then, and they heard the vitriolic things that Mary was saying about their mother. They came back to Diana and asked ‘Mom, why is she saying that?’”

“So things penetrated Diana because her children were involved, and Mary was calling her a liar, which was horrendous in itself. Had Mary even thought about the consequences of her actions…”

Lawrence’s voice trailed off, as if to compose herself before continuing…as any true Supreme would.

“There are envious people in the world, and there are people who are straight out jealous,” Lawrence said. “I feel sorry for Mary, if you want to know the truth. This is a business, and the one thing I’ve learned over the years is you better know how to deal with the business end of show business, or it’s going to eat you up.”

“Mary is still struggling, and she has conceded to envy and jealousy,” Lawrence said. “That’s very sad because it does not leave room for understanding. Mary doesn’t understand the ‘business’ of ‘show business’.”

“Listen: [the members of] Fleetwood Mac don’t even speak to each other offstage,” Lawrence declared, “but they got back together, and they performed, because that’s what people want. Can you imagine what would happen if Diana chose to do something now, even 20 years later? Diana looks great — just like she did in 2000!”


Lawrence, Ross, and Payne. Photo courtesy of Jim Saphin.
“I went to see Mary last year in Vegas,” Lawrence said, “and after the show I tried to explain to her the business end of what we could do, even now. I told her that I would contact Diana, but Mary didn’t want any part of that.”

“Mary has really missed the boat, and she just doesn’t understand,” Lawrence said. “No matter what, she is Mary and Diana is DIANA! And that’s it! There is no way on this planet that Mary Wilson will ever garner the audiences that Diana Ross does! It’s just not going to happen! The name ‘The Supremes’ is a great name, but it’s not going to carry Mary that far, because Mary can’t back it up with what it takes to back it up.”

According to Lawrence, the Return To Love tour faced a foe far more formidable than a Mary Wilson interview: sexism in the entertainment industry. She said the tour’s promoters tried to force Ross into a five-year, exclusive management contract. If Ross didn’t sign, they threatened to pull the plug on the entire tour.

“The promoters tried to make people think that the tour wasn’t going well,” Lawrence said. “We had full houses, but they were telling Diana that we didn’t. They assumed that, because we were women, we didn’t know what we were doing. Diana called us all together, in Canada I believe, and told us what they were trying to force her to do. Ultimately, Diana told them that unless they took the signing off of the table, they could cancel the tour.”

“So they did, not even allowing us to keep our west coast and Vegas dates. Diana was so devastated — we all were. I didn’t like that it was done that way, but I was glad that Diana stood on her own two feet and said ‘no’ .”

[jobeterob]

Might Supremes Fans Look Forward To Another Return To Love?

Cindy Birdsong, the only other surviving member of the 60s incarnation of Diana Ross & The Supremes, is in poor health and unable to perform. Sources who asked for anonymity confirmed that Birdsong expressed regret about allowing Wilson to negotiate on her behalf, as well as about not joining the Return To Love tour.

Even so, some diehard Supremes fans are holding out hope for Ross to take the stage with Wilson one more time. With the global coronavirus pandemic having shuttered performance venues across the globe, there’s a little time ahead to mend fences.

But based on what Payne and Lawrence have said, this writer thinks that if there’s another Supremes “reunion” tour, it should be dubbed The Snowball In Hell Tour.

“In the end,” Lawrence said, “Diana has won all of these years. If Mary were to understand the depth of her getting online, after all of these years, and saying ‘I made a mistake, and I would like Diana to forgive me if she can find it in her heart,’ it would be monumental worldwide. I would be the #1 news item of the day!”

“And I know Diana would receive that,” Lawrence continued. “She’s run her own business for years, so make no mistake: Diana would receive that and she would see things for what they could be.”

“I don’t think that will ever happen. No,” Payne curtly asserted. “And Diana doesn’t need to do it, at this point.”

So twenty years after the truncated Return To Love tour, and 57 years after The Supremes enjoyed the first of a string of #1 smashes, “Where Did Our Love Go,” fans of Diana Ross & The Supremes have the memories and the music. As Ross is prone to saying, some memories never fade.


And for those lucky enough to have seen the Return To Love tour, we know that truer words have never been spoken!

[PeaceNHarmony]

Well. This should become interesting

[carlo]

There was definitely a thread or two about these interviews with Scherrie and Lynda, when they were first published a few years ago. But hey, I guess we are overdue for our monthly RTL debate lol.

I think Scherrie's interview was classier, out of the two. Lynda made some unnecessary digs at Mary, which came across to me as 'biting the hand that fed you'.

[Ollie9]

Why don’t we just cut to the chase and have a head count for either devious Diana or malicious Mary.

[reese]

I'm just sorry that I never got to see the show.

I had a front row seat and the tour was pulled the week they were going to play my city. And it dragged on and on for a few days. In one of the local papers, there was a story saying that even though the tour was supposedly over, the local date was still on as the venue had not received word of a cancellation. That gave me a little hope. Finally, the paper announced it was all over.

[floyjoy678]

I do find it funny we all complain about these same old topics being brought up again and again...yet here we are lol.

I will say I do wish I got to see the show but those tickets were too pricey for me. Even though I hated that Mary wasn't on the tour, I still wanted to see it.

[TNSUN]

The RTL Tour 2020 rehearsals were at a staduim in Trenton, NJ.I was driving along the highway and heard the music and saw, for a passing moment the stage rehearsal with The Supremes. How cool was that! Went to the show with two friends on June 14th, 2000. Opening night was awesome. Saw Luther and Diana sing, "The Best Years of My Life". Was Luther also performing with Diana at the last show in NYC? This show was awesome. "Reach and I'll be There" and "Come See About Me" and opening song"Reflections" were awesome! If you watch footage of the opening night, the orchestra was wonderful. The sound system was phenomenally awesome!

[jobeterob]

I initially didn’t realize this was an article that was 3 years old

I had never seen it

It seems to clearly discuss the issues

[reese]

It is hard to believe that it has been almost 25 years.

[sup_fan]

both Diana and Mary suffered through the years of handling their own career management and PR. we could draft up LONG lists of the mistakes both have made through the decades. it almost seems like the two would actually prefer NOT to ever reunite. through the 70s there were times when they were together professionally. When Diana would come to a Sups show or visa versa. the pics of them all together in 73 [[i think) at the NAACP awards. mary's solo debut, etc.

by the 80s they were now turning 40. they had families. they were different women than they were in the 70s which were different women from what they were in the 60s. we've all had people that were significant parts of our lives but only during specific periods. given life's curves and turns, people come in and out. and you might find later that you just really don't have that strong of a connection anymore.

perhaps that would have been the natural path for these two. however the enormity of their professional success meant that they would never be able to really uncouple themselves.

[carlo]

Sorry to read that you did not get the chance to see the show, Reese.

Thanks for sharing your memories, TSUN. It brings back memories for me. I was 10, going on 11, at the time. While I've always felt that Diana should have never toured without Mary, and even felt that way at that young age, it was a huge deal for me to be going to this show. My first real concert and my first Ross concert. Having already been a Supremes fanatic for several years at that point, I don't think I ever once asked my parents if they could get me tickets for the tour, even though I had watched and taped the various promotional TV appearances. My Mom just told me one day that we were going to go and I was so thrilled. I still remember lining up to get tickets at the Ticketmaster outlet at our local record store, located in our mall. There was a huge line that had already formed for tickets that morning at 9 AM. Seeing the long line, I started to panic, thinking that we would have no chance at getting tickets. It turned out that all of the people there were in line to buy George Strait tickets that were also on sale that morning. We came back after the line had died down and as per the gentleman at the Ticketmaster desk, only ourselves and another lady had bought tickets for the RTL tour that morning, at that location.

I remember the excitement that I had that day, as we drove to the show. My Mom and my Uncle accompanied me. He asked me if I wanted any merch, and I was too shy to say yes, so he very kindly bought me the program, which I still have. I have been planning to put it in a custom frame with my ticket stub. I still remember those huge sweeping pink curtains that revealed their glorious entrance, at the start of the show. I seem to remember that Toronto was well-attended and appeared to be completely full [a friend of mine who was there also confirmed this], but there were a number of late arrivers, most of whom I am assuming were people who got cheap tickets at the last minute. I remember being most thrilled hearing them perform "The Happening" and "I Hear A Symphony". They also did "Money [That's What I Want]", which was prefaced by Diana asking the audience what they wanted to hear. Someone shouted "Endless Love" and she turned to the band, asking if it were possible and she playfully responded, "No, sorry...can't do that one!" She also descended the stage to interact with the audience, during one of the numbers. I was in a semi-trance for the majority of the show. It really was a magnificent show, and could have been even better, had it turned out to be the reunion it should have been. I remember it took me a long time to fall asleep that night, as all of the music I had heard that night repeated itself in my head.

Knowing that VH1 filmed the opening night, I still wish that their professionally-captured footage of the entire show will be released or leak-out, one day. However, I also know that a snow-ball has a better chance in hell, with that ever happening!

For me, it remains to be a special moment in time.

[reese]

Great story, Carlo.

I remember being so excited when news broke of the upcoming reunion. But as soon as I heard Mary say that all of the deals had to be worked out, I knew it wasn't going to be smooth sailing.

The day the tickets went on sale, I got to the box office probably two or three hours ahead of time. I was expecting a line but by this time, it was already known that the group was going to be DSL. There were maybe only three or four guys ahead of me. A local radio station was there trying to stir up interest but even they looked bored. At one point, they said "Why don't you guys sing STOP! IN THE NAME OF LOVE?" I figured no one will ever know so the guys and I put our coats on our heads [pretending they were wigs] and did it. When the box office finally opened, I was surprised but very pleased to get a front row seat.

Even though I didn't see the show in person, I was lucky enough to see three concerts that were taped, Philly, Fort Lauderdale, and NYC. The shows were fantastic. I gained a new appreciation for REACH OUT I'LL BE THERE after Diana performed it during these shows. Later on, I was able to get a shirt from the website and a tour program from eBay.

The only thing that could have made the shows better was if Mary and Cindy were there. But no such luck.

[sup_fan]

i was in Houston at the time and remember the sticker shock at the ticket prices. crazy expensive. even if it had been a full-blown reunion i think demanding nearly $300 [[if memory serves me right) for top tickets was way out of line. that type of price should have also included a private audience with Diana! lol

Randy's book on the subject talks about how the promoters were trying to scale things back a bit due to the rising costs. but Diana was adamant that no one would be terminated or let go. while that's admirable, i think the overblown approach to everything just doomed the effort from the start. Top tickets should probably have been $150 or so, max. and then they should have looked at the budget based on that tix revenue.

[sup_fan]

also i think we all deserve a pat on the back for having an RTL dialogue that hasn't turned sour yet! lol

let's do a little "what if" discussion [[which are my fav!)

let's say there wasn't the feud going on. or that everything worked out fine. how would YOU have structured the show? would it just be DMC? would you have the 70s ladies join in? what would Mary have done and what would Diana have done on stage?

[floyjoy678]

also i think we all deserve a pat on the back for having an RTL dialogue that hasn't turned sour yet! lol

let's do a little "what if" discussion [[which are my fav!)

let's say there wasn't the feud going on. or that everything worked out fine. how would YOU have structured the show? would it just be DMC? would you have the 70s ladies join in? what would Mary have done and what would Diana have done on stage?

Wasn't the idea to have all the Supremes involved? I would have had DMC do the majority of the show. Have Diana do some of her solo hits, then have Jean, Lynda, Scherrie and Susaye come out do the 70s hits. Have an extended "Let My Heart Do the Walking" with Diana included segueing into "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" with all the Supremes onstage. And have Mary do an encore with "Can't Take My Eyes Off You"

But it was never going to happen whether there was a feud between Diana and Mary or not. I really do not think Diana wanted to share the stage with the new, confident and adult Mary Wilson. She was intimidated by her.

[reese]

i was in Houston at the time and remember the sticker shock at the ticket prices. crazy expensive. even if it had been a full-blown reunion i think demanding nearly $300 [[if memory serves me right) for top tickets was way out of line. that type of price should have also included a private audience with Diana! lol

Randy's book on the subject talks about how the promoters were trying to scale things back a bit due to the rising costs. but Diana was adamant that no one would be terminated or let go. while that's admirable, i think the overblown approach to everything just doomed the effort from the start. Top tickets should probably have been $150 or so, max. and then they should have looked at the budget based on that tix revenue.

$250 was the top ticket price as I recall. I don't remember the different amounts beneath that. But yes, it was a bit expensive. However, some of the proceeds were going to three charities so I can understand it.

IMO, once it was known that Mary and Cindy weren't taking part, the venues should have been changed to concert halls. By 2000, Diana wasn't an arena act [at least not in the US] and the addition of Scherrie and Lynda wasn't going to change that for this tour. But not knowing the business details, I have no idea if the venues were already booked or what.

[marybrewster]

If memory serves me right, tickets for the Minneapolis show were $250 for top tier, which in 2000, was ambitious. I wanted to go, but I opted not to buy tickets. A friend did get tickets, and they came with a free VHS tape of "Stolen Moments."

As for the venue itself, it was scheduled for the Target Center, which seats 20,000. I have no idea how many tickets were sold. This show eventually was canceled.

Years later, I did find a tour program on eBay.

If you check the archives, this topic was discussed at length in 2020.

[reese]

also i think we all deserve a pat on the back for having an RTL dialogue that hasn't turned sour yet! lol

let's do a little "what if" discussion [[which are my fav!)

let's say there wasn't the feud going on. or that everything worked out fine. how would YOU have structured the show? would it just be DMC? would you have the 70s ladies join in? what would Mary have done and what would Diana have done on stage?

I only wanted DMC. But if it ended up being all of the ladies, cool.

Re the act, I would have pulled out some of their old routines like the Sam Cooke medley. I might have a nice section with a stage set like the Copa with patrons being brought on stage while they sang MAKE SOMEONE HAPPY or SOMEWHERE. Near the end, I would have a nice montage paying tribute to Flo. Of course, I would have ended with SOMEDAY.

[sup_fan]

Wasn't the idea to have all the Supremes involved? I would have had DMC do the majority of the show. Have Diana do some of her solo hits, then have Jean, Lynda, Scherrie and Susaye come out do the 70s hits. Have an extended "Let My Heart Do the Walking" with Diana included segueing into "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" with all the Supremes onstage. And have Mary do an encore with "Can't Take My Eyes Off You"

But it was never going to happen whether there was a feud between Diana and Mary or not. I really do not think Diana wanted to share the stage with the new, confident and adult Mary Wilson. She was intimidated by her.

i'm not sure if i would attribute it to intimidation. but diana had basically been a solo act since 67. 33 years of her doing her own thing on stage, leading the show, etc. to then pivot pretty much on a dime and go to a group presentation would have been difficult for pretty much anyone.

[sup_fan]

$250 was the top ticket price as I recall. I don't remember the different amounts beneath that. But yes, it was a bit expensive. However, some of the proceeds were going to three charities so I can understand it.

IMO, once it was known that Mary and Cindy weren't taking part, the venues should have been changed to concert halls. By 2000, Diana wasn't an arena act [at least not in the US] and the addition of Scherrie and Lynda wasn't going to change that for this tour. But not knowing the business details, I have no idea if the venues were already booked or what.

agreed - i doubt honestly if DMC were an arena act. perhaps in very, very specific cities and circumstances. maybe if the whole tour culminated in a big show in Vegas? maybe Detroit or NYC or maybe chicago?

[sup_fan]

I would do something that brought in all of the eras. DMC would be the majority of the show. I don't know if Reflections is a good opener - the lyrics are really very sad. how about this

Opening medley DMC [[you can't have a Sup show without medleys!! lol) the lyrics to these songs really sum up the sentiment plus die-hards would have flipped out hearing these rarities
*there's no stopping us now
*wonderful wonderful
*with a song in my heart
*shake

intro monologues by all 3 women

*Stop in the Name of Love

Cindy exits and D and M monologue about the early days

*mini medley with parts of Your Heart, Let Me Go Right Way, Run run run

monologue on Flo
*a few lines of Buttered Popcorn with Flo's lead broadcast on the PA system and D and M singing backup

*Lovelight and Cindy rejoins the girls

*Where Did our love go

*Back in my arms again - with media images of Flo during the later verse

*Baby Love

*Queen of the house

*symphony

*you can't hurry love

*Come see about me

*love child

*reflections

*the Happening - use an extended ending and bring out Jean who joins DMC

*Up the ladder

*Stoned Love

*Floy Joy and Auto sunshine and nathan jones medley - Lynda comes out and joins the group for this. maybe takes some lead lines here and there

*Bad Weather - lynda getting a spotlight with the ending, and really going to town

*love is here

*My world is empty - with D starting it in the 60s fashion but then it slowing down for the slow burn version jean did

Diana solo period - Reach out and touch, My Man, The boss

*MSC and S come out and join in The boss during an extended ending

*Walking

*Let yourself go

*Love is like an itching

*mountain - with all women on stage

*someday

[jobeterob]

also i think we all deserve a pat on the back for having an RTL dialogue that hasn't turned sour yet! lol

let's do a little "what if" discussion [[which are my fav!)

let's say there wasn't the feud going on. or that everything worked out fine. how would YOU have structured the show? would it just be DMC? would you have the 70s ladies join in? what would Mary have done and what would Diana have done on stage?

Getting along warrants recognition

However many many many very knowledgeable members are gone — some died, many got fed up with the wars and for many, time marched on and other interests usurped the Motown spot

[Ollie9]

I always felt the show should have kicked off in the UK, being her most loyal market and where her profile was still reasonably high. Further dates across Europe, then onto the USA.
It certainly looked a fabulous show, though always felt additional backing singers and dancers were not particularly necessary. Highlight of the show for me would have been Diana performing “Reach out I’ll Be There”.

[jobeterob]

I always felt the show should have kicked off in the UK, being her most loyal market and where her profile was still reasonably high. Further dates across Europe, then onto the USA.
It certainly looked a fabulous show, though always felt additional backing singers and dancers were not particularly necessary. Highlight of the show for me would have been Diana performing “Reach out I’ll Be There”.

In retrospect, this sounds like a good idea.

I'm a stick in the mud for long time fans, but I don't think either now or then that you can include anything but the hits - very much like the show was structured. For the 70's Supremes, nothing more than Ladder and Stoned Love; No show tunes. Just straight out with the hits, long versions.

Every time this discussion arises, I always feel that the fans and the Supremes got short changed - nothing worked out. Some little rat ass of a 10 second reunion at M25. A bunch of bitching and hissing. When I read what Lynda said about Mary, for me it resonated - there was so much promise, there could have been so much more money made for all of them when no one but Diana really had all that much. But instead there was nothing and now it's too late for sure.

[carlo]

Great story, Carlo.

I remember being so excited when news broke of the upcoming reunion. But as soon as I heard Mary say that all of the deals had to be worked out, I knew it wasn't going to be smooth sailing.

The day the tickets went on sale, I got to the box office probably two or three hours ahead of time. I was expecting a line but by this time, it was already known that the group was going to be DSL. There were maybe only three or four guys ahead of me. A local radio station was there trying to stir up interest but even they looked bored. At one point, they said "Why don't you guys sing STOP! IN THE NAME OF LOVE?" I figured no one will ever know so the guys and I put our coats on our heads [pretending they were wigs] and did it. When the box office finally opened, I was surprised but very pleased to get a front row seat.

Even though I didn't see the show in person, I was lucky enough to see three concerts that were taped, Philly, Fort Lauderdale, and NYC. The shows were fantastic. I gained a new appreciation for REACH OUT I'LL BE THERE after Diana performed it during these shows. Later on, I was able to get a shirt from the website and a tour program from eBay.

The only thing that could have made the shows better was if Mary and Cindy were there. But no such luck.

Thanks Reese! Love your story of doing an impromptu Supremes tribute at the box office

Yes, that closing with Reach Out [I'll Be There] was fantastic. Perfect closing number and so wonderful with that staircase and the orchestral accompaniment.

[Ollie9]

In retrospect, this sounds like a good idea.

I'm a stick in the mud for long time fans, but I don't think either now or then that you can include anything but the hits - very much like the show was structured. For the 70's Supremes, nothing more than Ladder and Stoned Love; No show tunes. Just straight out with the hits, long versions.

Every time this discussion arises, I always feel that the fans and the Supremes got short changed - nothing worked out. Some little rat ass of a 10 second reunion at M25. A bunch of bitching and hissing. When I read what Lynda said about Mary, for me it resonated - there was so much promise, there could have been so much more money made for all of them when no one but Diana really had all that much. But instead there was nothing and now it's too late for sure.

In all honesty, i think had they kicked off in Europe the fate of the tour might have proved very different. The costing of tickets would probably be a sticking point, but Diana was still performing in arenas and had only recently scored a top ten pop hit in the UK.
I don’t want to go down the road as to who’s fault it was, though in my opinion both women share a portion of the blame.
I think Diana needed the success of the tour more then Mary, being a distraction as to what was going on in her personal life.
As you mention, it was all very sad and once again did little to bolster the legacy of such a historically important group.

[Jaap]

One good thing that came out of the whole RTL debacle is that Ross for a while put many more Supremes songs on her setlist, and singing them in full rather than reducing them to a medley. I have never seen Ross perform so many Supremes songs live before than during her 2004 concert in Rotterdam. Before the intermission, she sang 11 Supremes songs... Ironically, in the metro back, some people were complaining that Ross had sung too many "old Motown songs" -- of course, here she has been bigger as a solo star than as lead singer of the Supremes, who were popular, but not as massively popular as the Supremes were in the States and Ross was/is solo in Europe.

[jobucats]

From the full page ad in the Atlanta Journal Constitution. I have it in a poster frame [[which accounts for my image in the photo). Here's what I always notes about this photo of Diana, Lynda, and and Scherrie....you can definitely see that it is Diana. Because of the cropped photo and the angle, a person who was not a hardcore fan of the Supremes might believe it that these are images of Cindy and Mary.

[floyjoy678]

I came up with a setlist too but had to trim it down. I think it originally had like 34 songs lol. I figured some nights they'd do one song and then swap it out with another on a different night in order to get them all in. Here's what I came up with...

1. Reflections instrumental intro [[DMC entrance)
2. Come See About Me
3. Where Did Our Love Go
4. "Now that you've heard..."/Baby Love
5. Stop!
6. Back In My Arms Again
7. Somewhere
8. You Keep Me Hanging On
9. You Can't Hurry Love
10. People [[Tribute to Flo) [[D&M only) [[D doing Flo's lines, M doing
the middle solo)
11. Love Is Like An Itching or My World Is Empty
12. A Breathtaking Guy
13. The Happening or In and Out of Love
14. Love Is Here or Forever Came Today
15. Reflections
16. Lovelight
17. I Hear A Symphony [[w Jean, Scherrie, Lynda, Susaye
coming out)
18. Up the Ladder to the Roof [[JMC)
19. Stoned Love [[JMC)
20. Floy Joy [[JML)
21. Don't Let My Teardrops Bother You [[SMS)
22. I'm Coming Out [[D)
23. Upside Down [[D)
24. Remember Me [[D)
25. Love Child [[DMC)
26. Let My Heart Do the Walking [[All)
27. Ain't No Mountain High Enough/Someday We'll Be Together[[All)
ENCORE: Nothing But Heartaches

[sup_fan]

Floy that does make a great set list. yeah i had the same issue - my show would probably run too long. I do love you adding in "now that you've heard..." I was going for the same thing with Queen of the House. some nice throwbacks to their classic shows.

[Ollie9]

I only wanted DMC. But if it ended up being all of the ladies, cool.

Re the act, I would have pulled out some of their old routines like the Sam Cooke medley. I might have a nice section with a stage set like the Copa with patrons being brought on stage while they sang MAKE SOMEONE HAPPY or SOMEWHERE. Near the end, I would have a nice montage paying tribute to Flo. Of course, I would have ended with SOMEDAY.

I love the idea of recreating the Copa, much the same as Streisand did with the Bon Soir nightclub.

[telekin]

That Lynda Laurence interview, whew! Lots to unpack there! I sense more than a little bit of projection and bitterness of her own in her comments.


I mean, saying Mary doesn’t understand the business? At the time of this writing, Lynda had retired from the FLOS and Mary was continuing to make a good living for herself around being Mary Wilson of the Supremes. She had just come off of DWTS and a well-publicized book tour, so I’m not sure that stands. I’m guessing Lynda is partly referring to a meeting they had after one of Mary’s performances in Vegas not long before this interview. I remember when those photos came out, I wondered what the occasion was. After reading this, it seemed Lynda tried to pitch Mary on some sort of reunion but Mary wasn’t biting. If Diana didn’t owe Mary a reunion, Mary certainly didn’t owe Lynda one either.


The interviewer clearly came into this with an agenda against Mary. I mean, fair enough. I know there are fans who resented that Mary didn’t keep quiet after things fell through, and all the bad press that ensued. But the author’s supposition that it wasn’t the bad publicity that canned the tour but the promoters who wanted Diana to sign a 5 year deal? Sorry, that doesn’t even make any sense. Clearly the promoters were either trying to cut their losses, or make sure they had enough room to turn a profit in the future. Clearly option A - cancelling the tour was the option they chose.

[sup_fan]

That Lynda Laurence interview, whew! Lots to unpack there! I sense more than a little bit of projection and bitterness of her own in her comments.


I mean, saying Mary doesn’t understand the business? At the time of this writing, Lynda had retired from the FLOS and Mary was continuing to make a good living for herself around being Mary Wilson of the Supremes. She had just come off of DWTS and a well-publicized book tour, so I’m not sure that stands. I’m guessing Lynda is partly referring to a meeting they had after one of Mary’s performances in Vegas not long before this interview. I remember when those photos came out, I wondered what the occasion was. After reading this, it seemed Lynda tried to pitch Mary on some sort of reunion but Mary wasn’t biting. If Diana didn’t owe Mary a reunion, Mary certainly didn’t owe Lynda one either.


The interviewer clearly came into this with an agenda against Mary. I mean, fair enough. I know there are fans who resented that Mary didn’t keep quiet after things fell through, and all the bad press that ensued. But the author’s supposition that it wasn’t the bad publicity that canned the tour but the promoters who wanted Diana to sign a 5 year deal? Sorry, that doesn’t even make any sense. Clearly the promoters were either trying to cut their losses, or make sure they had enough room to turn a profit in the future. Clearly option A - cancelling the tour was the option they chose.

my interpretation is if you look at the money she was being offered versus her costs and the number of dates she was being asked to perform in.

Mary wasn't being charged nor would her earnings have to go to cover musical charts and arrangements, staging and choreographers, dress designers, crew, etc. She was contractually being paid and regardless what the tour generated, she would get her money. I'm not sure how much she really made in 1 year of touring and work but i don't believe it was ANYWHERE near $2M, much less the additional 2 offered up. So the finances/business side showed presented shows this was an opportunity to make some really good money. not to mention whatever other personal appearance fees she'd earn. the group would have been paid for their appearance on tv shows, VH1, etc. And after the tour, there would have been some residual impact on her own personal appearance fees.

what i also interpreted was the Mary felt it was too dismissive to be told "just show up and sing and get your money." She probably wanted to be in the dialogs regarding gowns and staging, which songs do they sing and who sings what, the format of the show, etc. Basically the overall strategy. Now that brings up the point of if someone else is paying for or funding these other production components, then how much voice would she have in these dialogues?

[mwmr]

Lynda should pipe down. Her tenure with the Supremes was short and hit less. Her business sense extended to still trading on the supremes name decades later as part of the FLOs and I believe undercutting Mary’s fee’s. Barely anyone outside of this forum would know who she was.

[carlo]

That Lynda Laurence interview, whew! Lots to unpack there! I sense more than a little bit of projection and bitterness of her own in her comments.


I mean, saying Mary doesn’t understand the business? At the time of this writing, Lynda had retired from the FLOS and Mary was continuing to make a good living for herself around being Mary Wilson of the Supremes. She had just come off of DWTS and a well-publicized book tour, so I’m not sure that stands. I’m guessing Lynda is partly referring to a meeting they had after one of Mary’s performances in Vegas not long before this interview. I remember when those photos came out, I wondered what the occasion was. After reading this, it seemed Lynda tried to pitch Mary on some sort of reunion but Mary wasn’t biting. If Diana didn’t owe Mary a reunion, Mary certainly didn’t owe Lynda one either.


The interviewer clearly came into this with an agenda against Mary. I mean, fair enough. I know there are fans who resented that Mary didn’t keep quiet after things fell through, and all the bad press that ensued. But the author’s supposition that it wasn’t the bad publicity that canned the tour but the promoters who wanted Diana to sign a 5 year deal? Sorry, that doesn’t even make any sense. Clearly the promoters were either trying to cut their losses, or make sure they had enough room to turn a profit in the future. Clearly option A - cancelling the tour was the option they chose.

Well said, telekin.

[sup_fan]

my POV is that all 9 ladies were supremes. tenure doesn't solely determine who/what/where/when/why. each played an important role in the overall history of the group. yes different members were there for different durations, yes different members had different amounts of leads or this or that. But as someone that was contractually signed by motown to the group, all 9 are official members. as such, each SHOULD be able to build off of that legacy. i emphasize the should because Flo contractually negotiated away her right. right or wrong, good or bad. that's what happened and why she was not.

[Ollie9]

That Lynda Laurence interview, whew! Lots to unpack there! I sense more than a little bit of projection and bitterness of her own in her comments.


I mean, saying Mary doesn’t understand the business? At the time of this writing, Lynda had retired from the FLOS and Mary was continuing to make a good living for herself around being Mary Wilson of the Supremes. She had just come off of DWTS and a well-publicized book tour, so I’m not sure that stands. I’m guessing Lynda is partly referring to a meeting they had after one of Mary’s performances in Vegas not long before this interview. I remember when those photos came out, I wondered what the occasion was. After reading this, it seemed Lynda tried to pitch Mary on some sort of reunion but Mary wasn’t biting. If Diana didn’t owe Mary a reunion, Mary certainly didn’t owe Lynda one either.


The interviewer clearly came into this with an agenda against Mary. I mean, fair enough. I know there are fans who resented that Mary didn’t keep quiet after things fell through, and all the bad press that ensued. But the author’s supposition that it wasn’t the bad publicity that canned the tour but the promoters who wanted Diana to sign a 5 year deal? Sorry, that doesn’t even make any sense. Clearly the promoters were either trying to cut their losses, or make sure they had enough room to turn a profit in the future. Clearly option A - cancelling the tour was the option they chose.

Interesting post.

[REYnoldo Chavez]

Jesus Helen Christ ...... get OVER IT! Mary is DEAD. She made peace with both Scherrie and Lynda. DROP IT your morbid cows.

[daviddh]

If the Supremes were men, would this have been handled differently,
Would Mary n Cindy been paid more,
I think so. But....maybe not
Other groups have had fueds or disagreements.
Fleetwood Mac fired Lindsay Buckingham and it didn't get the heat the supremes did, and then, he had a heart attack.geez.
Still didn't hear anyone bad mouth FM after that.

[Spreadinglove21]

Only good thing to come out of RTL were the charts that were written for those Supremes songs. They sounded great. A shame Diana doesn't use more of them for her shows but that's another oft heard complaint here.

[jobeterob]

Their VH1 show was the highest rated of those shows.

I can’t understand how I missed this when it came out however when I read it, I was surprised how blunt Lynda Laurence was - and Mary was alive then. I do accept what she said about why the tour ended - she would know because she was there.

I’m always left disappointed by how little there was of the Supremes after - well even after 1972 but especially after the group disbanded. The members that would have benefited the most financially, got way more bookings and more publicity were all the Supremes other than Diana - she didn’t need the money etc. Cindy regretted her choice but I guess Mary never did and I guess Jean had no interest.

A sad state of affairs. Even when the fights were bigger as in Temptations and Beach Boys and perhaps Beatles, they’ve managed to come back together somewhat - for more than 10 seconds or a picture with Berry.

[sup_fan]

the VH1 show was the highest rated but i think it was a very weak kickoff to the whole RTL. Diana was really not in good voice. her vocals were so weak and scratchy. perhaps the average viewer didn't notice but i cringed through most of it. the guests were all fine enough. i thought it was a good variety of performers. but the duetting of Mirah and Diana seemed a bit odd, that there wasn't a third. it felt that like segment got more focus and attention than DLS doing the sups songs.

this should have been a highlight of diana's career and something to help springboard into the 2000s and reconnect her with the broader general public. even without the RTL fiasco following, i don't think this would have done the job

[floyjoy678]

the VH1 show was the highest rated but i think it was a very weak kickoff to the whole RTL. Diana was really not in good voice. her vocals were so weak and scratchy. perhaps the average viewer didn't notice but i cringed through most of it. the guests were all fine enough. i thought it was a good variety of performers. but the duetting of Mirah and Diana seemed a bit odd, that there wasn't a third. it felt that like segment got more focus and attention than DLS doing the sups songs.

this should have been a highlight of diana's career and something to help springboard into the 2000s and reconnect her with the broader general public. even without the RTL fiasco following, i don't think this would have done the job

I loved the special and watched with excitement but I recall my whole family commenting how horrible Diana sounded the whole time and specifically remember one of my aunts saying she looked "whacked out" and of course everyone kept saying "those aren't the real Supremes".

[marybrewster]

There was a short "behind the scenes" docu on the making of Diana's DIVAS concert.

Donna Summer was originally scheduled to be the third singer during the "Baby Love/Stop!" segment, but wasn't comfortable performing as there had been no rehearsal. This apparently was done last minute; if you watch, it appears that Mariah and Diana are looking offstage, waiting for Donna appear.

The producers called this the highlight that "could have been".

If you can find it, it's a good watch. They also talk about how their vision was to feature the women as superheros in the promos, but Diana nixed that and instead opted for "everything pink".

[bradsupremes]

my interpretation is if you look at the money she was being offered versus her costs and the number of dates she was being asked to perform in.

Mary wasn't being charged nor would her earnings have to go to cover musical charts and arrangements, staging and choreographers, dress designers, crew, etc. She was contractually being paid and regardless what the tour generated, she would get her money. I'm not sure how much she really made in 1 year of touring and work but i don't believe it was ANYWHERE near $2M, much less the additional 2 offered up. So the finances/business side showed presented shows this was an opportunity to make some really good money. not to mention whatever other personal appearance fees she'd earn. the group would have been paid for their appearance on tv shows, VH1, etc. And after the tour, there would have been some residual impact on her own personal appearance fees.

what i also interpreted was the Mary felt it was too dismissive to be told "just show up and sing and get your money." She probably wanted to be in the dialogs regarding gowns and staging, which songs do they sing and who sings what, the format of the show, etc. Basically the overall strategy. Now that brings up the point of if someone else is paying for or funding these other production components, then how much voice would she have in these dialogues?

That's purely looking at it from a financial standpoint. Yes, it looks like a great offer business-wise and maybe that's how Lynda only saw it. After all, Lynda didn't have a personal relationship with Diana. For her, this was a sweet deal. But for Mary, it was so much more - it was financial, but incredibly personal too. Maybe Lynda wasn't considering how Mary was looking at it from a principal standpoint and what this meant to her personally.

Mary did want to be involved in the planning of this tour. She was a founding member, she carried on the group after Diana left and Motown stopped their support, represented the group at award ceremonies when Diana was a no-show, continued to tour and carry the group's legacy, etc. Mary was the Supremes. Of course she should have legitimate, constructive decision-making in the show. She was denied that and that's what her issue was. I can't fault her during this process. Paul McCartney wouldn't have planned a Beatles reunion only to tell John, George and Ringo to just "show up." They would have told him to piss off and shove the money and the tour up his ass. If I were her shoes, I would have thought "Well, if you're going to shut me out of the decision-making on a tour of the group I helped to found then I'm going to demand as much money of this as possible." Frankly, if you aren't getting what you want out of one area, why not ask for more in the other?

What it boils down to is that Diana should have contacted and gaged the temperature with Mary right away before securing any deals with TNA/SFX.
If they were on the same page then they could proceeded with the tour. If not, they could have done their own things and avoided the public humiliation. Unfortunately that's not the road they took and it hurt all of them. I've always felt that if in 2000 they were at the point in their lives like were shortly before Mary died, I think the tour may have happened.

[thanxal]

I'm still trying to picture a "morbid cow".

[jobeterob]

I agree with Brad that it must have been intensely personal for Mary; when things are very personal, everything gets out of whack and the choices made aren’t always rational and the best ones. Randy said in 1989 that Mary had lost Diana forever by then - if she hadn’t by then, she certainly did by the end of RTL. That’s what is enduringly sad about the Supremes - the fans got nothing, all the Supremes outside of Diana were shortchanged and even Diana could have had greater successes if there had been a way to breech the divide.

A morbid cow would be a bloated dead cow with it’s feet in the air - not terminology proper for a Supreme or anyone here