Revisiting Return to Love - the Promoters Tried to Tie Diana Down for 5 Years

[reese]

I think Diana really underestimated Mary in terms of who she was by 2000. She had managed to continue on despite Motown's indifference in the 1970's, dealing with losing Florence, dealing with an abusive marriage, dealing with her son's death. She was no longer the person who couldn't make decisions and went along with things after all of these adversities. I think Diana thought they would just be happy to go along with whatever she wanted. I also think since she had the FLOs in her back pocket, she really never seriously thought that it would be a reunion with Mary and Cindy. Yes, everyone loved Diana Ross but everyone also loved the Supremes. And Mary was a huge part of that, despite what anyone may say or think.

I think Diana and Mary underestimated each other. Diana probably never thought that Mary wouldn't sign on to a Supremes reunion. And Mary probably never thought that Diana would do a Supremes tour without her. Just sad all the way around.

[jim aka jtigre99]

I think Diana and Mary underestimated each other. Diana probably never thought that Mary wouldn't sign on to a Supremes reunion. And Mary probably never thought that Diana would do a Supremes tour without her. Just sad all the way around.

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It was very sad-especially for the fans. I think Diana had the FLOs in mind the entire time and kind of thought she would not tour with Mary and Cindy, that Diana Ross would be enough for a Supremes show. I also think Mary was truly hurt by the FLOs agreeing to replace her and Cindy, especially since neither Lynda nor Scherrie would have ever been a Supreme had Mary not carried on and chose them for the group. I think eventually Mary made some peace with Scherrie, understanding it was not personal just a monetary decision.
However, it was all sad in the end. I think Diana should have reached out to Mary & Cindy and said let's meet and talk, go over what the proposed tour would be and then do your negotiations. If Diana was honest and sincerely wanted all of the Supremes onstage then having Mary and Cindy along with Jean, Lynda, Scherrie and Susaye for the tour would have been phenomenal-an honest and true Return to LOVE.
Remember at Motown 25, when they couldn't rehearse the medley, Diana said "the girls will be happy with Someday". Well, we saw how well that turned out. Diana wanted someone like Scherrie who said in an interview she was thrilled to be on the tour even if it was to mop the stage or something like that. I think Diana espouses "love" but doesn't really get how to implement it in her personal relationships, outside of her children. I think she is one of the best celebrity Mothers I have seen.

[reese]

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It was very sad-especially for the fans. I think Diana had the FLOs in mind the entire time and kind of thought she would not tour with Mary and Cindy, that Diana Ross would be enough for a Supremes show. I also think Mary was truly hurt by the FLOs agreeing to replace her and Cindy, especially since neither Lynda nor Scherrie would have ever been a Supreme had Mary not carried on and chose them for the group. I think eventually Mary made some peace with Scherrie, understanding it was not personal just a monetary decision.
However, it was all sad in the end. I think Diana should have reached out to Mary & Cindy and said let's meet and talk, go over what the proposed tour would be and then do your negotiations. If Diana was honest and sincerely wanted all of the Supremes onstage then having Mary and Cindy along with Jean, Lynda, Scherrie and Susaye for the tour would have been phenomenal-an honest and true Return to LOVE.
Remember at Motown 25, when they couldn't rehearse the medley, Diana said "the girls will be happy with Someday". Well, we saw how well that turned out. Diana wanted someone like Scherrie who said in an interview she was thrilled to be on the tour even if it was to mop the stage or something like that. I think Diana espouses "love" but doesn't really get how to implement it in her personal relationships, outside of her children. I think she is one of the best celebrity Mothers I have seen.

Many years ago, someone posted a very detailed list of the events in the forming of RTL. Unfortunately, I lost it when my work laptop was updated. But I remember reading that at least one item was that RTL was meant to be an opportunity for every Supreme [except Barbara, I guess], not just DMC. Supposedly, there was even a photo session scheduled for a group portrait but bad weather postponed and ultimately cancelled the session.

I keep repeating myself but it was just sad all around and no one came out winning, except perhaps the three charities that the tour made donations to.

[Albator]

Diana Ross is the winner... she survived this commercial fiasco, record flop after flop, the airport incident, the divorce, the DUI stuff ... And she managed to survive all this and made her legendary Diva reputation even more complex.

[reese]

Diana Ross is the winner... she survived this commercial fiasco, record flop after flop, the airport incident, the divorce, the DUI stuff ... And she managed to survive all this and made her legendary Diva reputation even more complex.

I can't argue with this. It is hard to believe that RTL and the subsequent issues were almost 25 years ago. She's still standing!

[RanRan79]

I think Diana and Mary underestimated each other. Diana probably never thought that Mary wouldn't sign on to a Supremes reunion. And Mary probably never thought that Diana would do a Supremes tour without her. Just sad all the way around.

No lies detected.

[RanRan79]

I can't argue with this. It is hard to believe that RTL and the subsequent issues were almost 25 years ago. She's still standing!

But who really doubted that Diana wouldn't weather the storm? The only thing that would have probably brought her down is if her DUI had resulted in someone's injury or death. Everything else was a stumbling block, but Diana had been hurdling those since the Primettes days.

Likewise, as Jim pointed out, Mary weathered the storm as well. As many times as she was knocked down, she always seemed to hop right back up, swinging, right up until the end. And she was and will always be Queen Supreme.

To piggyback on your "sad" sentiment, it is a pity that these two very strong women, determined women, were never able to regroup and be poster children for Black Girls Rock. Sure, they are definitely the epitome of BGR individually- and certainly as the Supremes unit, historically- but it would have been amazing to see what Diana and Mary could have accomplished together again had they been on the same page. Sad indeed.

[jobeterob]

Diana Ross is the winner... she survived this commercial fiasco, record flop after flop, the airport incident, the divorce, the DUI stuff ... And she managed to survive all this and made her legendary Diva reputation even more complex.

I believe she is now a happy person and think she genuinely feels blessed. And of course she should. Some of her colleagues seem to feel the same way - Cher and Tina Turner come to my mind.

But there are others that do not seem happy - Gladys Knight and Aretha Franklin are/were two of those.

[Ollie9]

I remember reading that and wondering what was Berry smoking that day? I would have never advised Diana to go on a Supremes tour without Mary and Cindy.

That said, I also recall reading that Berry actually tried to intervene and help get Mary and Cindy involved.

Yes, i also remember reading that reese. It wouldn’t have been the first time BG felt obligated in trying to bail Diana out of a sticky situation.

[Ollie9]

“The only hit that comes out of a Helen Lawson show is Helen Lawson, and that’s ME baby”.

[Albator]

I believe she is now a happy person and think she genuinely feels blessed. And of course she should. Some of her colleagues seem to feel the same way - Cher and Tina Turner come to my mind.

But there are others that do not seem happy - Gladys Knight and Aretha Franklin are/were two of those.

Dionne too, seems bitter. Barbra acts as if she is disconnected from the music industry.

[RanRan79]

I believe she is now a happy person and think she genuinely feels blessed. And of course she should. Some of her colleagues seem to feel the same way - Cher and Tina Turner come to my mind.

But there are others that do not seem happy - Gladys Knight and Aretha Franklin are/were two of those.

Lets not pretend like Diana Ross doesn't have issues. Life is doing to her what it does to the rest of us.

Say what you will about Gladys- I'm a huge fan of her work, no fan of her as a person- but I've never seen anything where she comes across looking anything other than happy. Again, life is life-ing everybody, so I wouldn't expect Diana or Gladys public lives to necessarily reflect their private lives. They are, after all, students of Motown.

[jobeterob]

Gladys Knight’s voice survived best but she’s the most genuinely unhappy one after Aretha; she always complains about something.

Barbra is above it all; yes at times Dionne can be testy.

I think Diana does the “blessed life” stuff a lot; I’m not a fan of those comments but I definitely dislike it when any of these women whine, complain or start bitching about others.

They all have every reason to be happy.

[bradsupremes]

I remember reading that and wondering what was Berry smoking that day? I would have never advised Diana to go on a Supremes tour without Mary and Cindy.

That said, I also recall reading that Berry actually tried to intervene and help get Mary and Cindy involved.

If I'm not mistaken, he told her she should do it if she felt it would be something she'd enjoy, but also warned her about not having Mary and Cindy on the tour. He saw what the fallout would be/eventually became.

He did make one phone call to the promoters on behalf of Mary and Cindy as a personal request from Mary.

[sup_fan]

If I'm not mistaken, he told her she should do it if she felt it would be something she'd enjoy, but also warned her about not having Mary and Cindy on the tour. He saw what the fallout would be/eventually became.

He did make one phone call to the promoters on behalf of Mary and Cindy as a personal request from Mary.

wow i hadn't heard about him calling on their behalf. as much as we point fingers at both M and D, i'll be the real culprits and blame lies with the promoters.

[jobeterob]

wow i hadn't heard about him calling on their behalf. as much as we point fingers at both M and D, i'll be the real culprits and blame lies with the promoters.

The promoters seem to be very unknowledgeable and I think they could have done a lot more to make this work.

As has been said before, some of them apparently didn't even know who Mary Wilson was and that surely did not help.

As others have stated, all a very sad state of affairs.

Anyways, it's all over and that's life. Things worked out as things worked out.

[Albator]

Gladys Knight’s voice survived best but she’s the most genuinely unhappy one after Aretha; she always complains about something.

Barbra is above it all; yes at times Dionne can be testy.

I think Diana does the “blessed life” stuff a lot; I’m not a fan of those comments but I definitely dislike it when any of these women whine, complain or start bitching about others.

They all have every reason to be happy.

Me neither, this sound like self talk. On the other hand, it"s hard to pretend she doesn't have a blessed life.
She probably had her tragic moments, but what she have accomplished is amazing.
So she is wise, saying thank you.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Gladys Knight’s voice survived best but she’s the most genuinely unhappy one after Aretha; she always complains about something.

Barbra is above it all; yes at times Dionne can be testy.

I think Diana does the “blessed life” stuff a lot; I’m not a fan of those comments but I definitely dislike it when any of these women whine, complain or start bitching about others.

They all have every reason to be happy.

Gotta agree, J-Rob. The ladies in question all lived a more privileged life than most of us could ever dream of but never learned.

[Ollie9]

Unless someone actually knows them personally, i think it a wee bit extreme to label a person who takes few jabs at another performer as being a relentlessly unhappy person.
From everything I've ever heard and read, Gladys and Dionne appear mostly jolly sorts in their day to day life.

[RanRan79]

Unless someone actually knows them personally, i think it a wee bit extreme to label a person who takes few jabs at another performer as being a relentlessly unhappy person.
From everything I've ever heard and read, Gladys and Dionne appear mostly jolly sorts in their day to day life.

I agree. Likewise, reading too much into Diana's "happiness". I have no doubt that all of these women had blessings and complaints. I've seen enough Gladys interviews, and even some Dionne ones, where they seem perfectly fine. Griping about one thing or another is an unwritten elder's right. And any unhappiness that Diana is likely to be experiencing, she is the last one you would expect to take to social media or any media at all and air it. We don't know these people.

What is beautiful about Diana, Gladys and Dionne is that they are still standing. Through all the trials and tribulations, through all the stiff competition each woman was up against early on in her career, they are still here telling the tales and sitting at the top. Of course Diana is at the top TOP...but I'm biased, so what?

[reese]

I agree. Likewise, reading too much into Diana's "happiness". I have no doubt that all of these women had blessings and complaints. I've seen enough Gladys interviews, and even some Dionne ones, where they seem perfectly fine. Griping about one thing or another is an unwritten elder's right. And any unhappiness that Diana is likely to be experiencing, she is the last one you would expect to take to social media or any media at all and air it. We don't know these people.

What is beautiful about Diana, Gladys and Dionne is that they are still standing. Through all the trials and tribulations, through all the stiff competition each woman was up against early on in her career, they are still here telling the tales and sitting at the top. Of course Diana is at the top TOP...but I'm biased, so what?

Very well put.

[bradsupremes]

The promoters seem to be very unknowledgeable and I think they could have done a lot more to make this work.

As has been said before, some of them apparently didn't even know who Mary Wilson was and that surely did not help.

As others have stated, all a very sad state of affairs.

Anyways, it's all over and that's life. Things worked out as things worked out.

The promoters are the ones who I think deserve most of the blame in this. All of the ladies, not just Diana and Mary, were screwed over by their actions. Scherrie and Lynda got great exposure because of the tour but it wasn’t without taking a beating in the press. The promoters didn’t do much of anything to shield them from that or sway public opinion - they left that to Diana. Cindy got the shaft from them, Jean was insulted by their request to have her sing for them, Susaye said she didn’t like their demeanor and how she was informed she wasn’t going to be used by email with the subject line “Two Supremes Have Been Cast!” Cast?! These weren’t roles like a play.

As you said, it’s all very sad how it turned out but the ladies clearly didn’t hold onto it and didn’t let it destroy their relationships.

[jobeterob]

The promoters are the ones who I think deserve most of the blame in this. All of the ladies, not just Diana and Mary, were screwed over by their actions. Scherrie and Lynda got great exposure because of the tour but it wasn’t without taking a beating in the press. The promoters didn’t do much of anything to shield them from that or sway public opinion - they left that to Diana. Cindy got the shaft from them, Jean was insulted by their request to have her sing for them, Susaye said she didn’t like their demeanor and how she was informed she wasn’t going to be used by email with the subject line “Two Supremes Have Been Cast!” Cast?! These weren’t roles like a play.

As you said, it’s all very sad how it turned out but the ladies clearly didn’t hold onto it and didn’t let it destroy their relationships.

That’s a very good synopsis.

The promoters were used to dealing with white rock bands and were clueless about the Supremes and the members and their relationships

[jobeterob]

https://youtu.be/1rcJQThklac

If we could have only got something like this

[Ollie9]

It was the promoters who urged a reluctant Diana to call Mary.

[jobeterob]