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  1. #1
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    Heaven Must Have Sent You question

    I really like the Supremes version of this song and am surprised it remained unreleased. I think it would have made a good album filler. Are there additional singers on there with Mary and Cindy? I definitely hear them but I also hear more than two of them especially on the "heaven in your arms, sweetness of your charms..." parts.

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    I haven't listened to it in a while but I remember hearing just Mary and Cindy. I thought they had a nice blend on it.

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    it doesn't sound like there are additional voices. it was supposedly lined up to be one the planned Some Things album. a few of those tracks [[but not all) were shifted to the LC album. if you look at the lineup of ST, it's a very pop-sounding album. here's the proposed lineup:

    Some things
    heaven must have sent you
    he's my sunny boy
    come on and see me
    can i get a witness
    you've been so wonderful

    my guy
    it's not unusal
    just a little misunderstanding
    uptight
    what becomes of the broken hearted
    blowing in the wind

    and looks like most of the tunes not used on LC were also not used on future albums. except for Blowing and Broken. maybe Heaven was just too mid-sixties pop for inclusion on Sunshine or Cream. and the covers they wanted to include were either more current or just bigger hits overall and therefore had stronger name recognition

    but i agree, it's a superb track by DMC and a shame it was left in the vault

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    I just hear Mary and Cindy. It would have been a solid addition to the "Reflections" album.

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    i like diana's vocals but i dont like the backing vocal arrangement.
    i thought this was recorded around Reflections. nice but not a fav of mine, the original i far better.imo.

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    Classic Mary and Cindy. The two of them really did have a great vocal blend together. I think I'm in the minority when it comes to this song because I think it would have made a fair album track, but I'm also fine with it being shelved.

    I first heard the Elgins' version on a Motown compilation. It was a series of releases with a silver cover. Can't remember the name of the series. Anyway, I fell in love with "Heaven Must Have Sent You" from the first note. I played it like crazy. And then to see it listed in Dreamgirl as having been recorded by the Supremes in 1965, it was on my wish list of unreleased Supremes cuts because I figured as good as the Elgins' version was, the Supremes could probably top it.

    When the boxset was released in 2000 and "Heaven" was listed on the tracklist, coupled with "People" and an alternate version of "Buttered Popcorn", I knew the price for the set was going to be worth it for these gems alone. [[I bought mine at Target with a 50 dollar off coupon, but I can't recall how I got a 50 dollar off coupon.) When I played the Supremes' version of "Heaven", I wanted to smack the ish out of somebody. The track was so bland compared to what the Elgins' were given. Diana was okay, and so were Mary and Cindy, but I was expecting Mary and Florence, since I had believed all those years that it was FDM that recorded it. I was so disappointed.

    I remain disappointed in it to this day. I can listen to it without wanting to hurt someone now, but when it's over, I just want to play the Elgins' version five times in a row to take the DRATS sound out of my ears. Lol

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    Ran i agree that the Sup version isn't a lost #1. I would say that DMF doing This Old Heart is more of a lost hit than DMC doing Heaven. it's a little too prim and proper. the Elgins added some grit to it and made it more exciting. a little more grit and rawness with their vocals contrasted with the soothing lyric of Heaven.

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    Like others, I really like HMHSY. But I don't think of it as a lost hit. It just sort of goes on and on with no variation and no bridge. It is nice that they added a modulation near the end for some variety. It's up to the girls to the best they can with it and IMO, they do.

    I feel much the same about their version of STAY IN MY LONELY ARMS. Again, the song just sort of goes on and on with no variation, no bridge, but a modulation near the end. And I do particularly like Diana's vocal. However, HDH [[or someone) must have thought something more might happen with it because they added additional background vocals and covered M& C's vocals. I would like to hear a version with just DMC.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Like others, I really like HMHSY. But I don't think of it as a lost hit. It just sort of goes on and on with no variation and no bridge. It is nice that they added a modulation near the end for some variety. It's up to the girls to the best they can with it and IMO, they do.

    I feel much the same about their version of STAY IN MY LONELY ARMS. Again, the song just sort of goes on and on with no variation, no bridge, but a modulation near the end. And I do particularly like Diana's vocal. However, HDH [[or someone) must have thought something more might happen with it because they added additional background vocals and covered M& C's vocals. I would like to hear a version with just DMC.
    Stay is another nice track. excellent for an album but that's it. i redid the Reflections lp on a playlist to be:

    reflections
    I'm gonna make it
    forever came today
    i can't make it alone
    stay in my lonely arms
    bah bah bah

    then
    am i asking too much
    a little breeze
    can't shake it loose
    let the music play
    ode to billie joe


    i've actually done several playlists but oddly enough this was the only one with Stay. not sure what how i missed it on the others lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Stay is another nice track. excellent for an album but that's it. i redid the Reflections lp on a playlist to be:

    reflections
    I'm gonna make it
    forever came today
    i can't make it alone
    stay in my lonely arms
    bah bah bah

    then
    am i asking too much
    a little breeze
    can't shake it loose
    let the music play
    ode to billie joe


    i've actually done several playlists but oddly enough this was the only one with Stay. not sure what how i missed it on the others lol
    A better lineup sup, but i would make a few different changes. “In And Out Of Love” And “Misery would remain.
    “Let The Music Play” imo suffers the same fate as “What The World Needs Now” in being comparable to a Sunday roast without the meat. I would substitute it for “Heaven”.
    ”Cant Shake It Loose” would have opened side 2 and been released as a single.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    A better lineup sup, but i would make a few different changes. “In And Out Of Love” And “Misery would remain.
    “Let The Music Play” imo suffers the same fate as “What The World Needs Now” in being comparable to a Sunday roast without the meat. I would substitute it for “Heaven”.
    ”Cant Shake It Loose” would have opened side 2 and been released as a single.
    yep - i've done 3 or 4 playlists for Reflections. there are some that basically take 6 or so of the "psychedelic soul" songs like the title track, Forever and I'm Gonna make it plus 6 or so "sunshine pop" songs like In and out, going all the way, Up Up and Away, etc. Basically making it a "motown salutes California" with HDH and the guys doing their thing on the San Fran and LA sounds.

    then other fans have offered up their ideas on playlists and all. seems like this is an album that people like to tinker around with

  12. #12
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    I was very disappointed in the DRATS version of "Heaven". The same with "Lonely Arms" and "Come On And See Me". I have warmed-up to the latter two songs, but to this day I can't bear to hear the DRATS version of "Heaven". The Elgins album is still a favorite of mine. I bought it on a whim, songs unheard, in 1966.

    I had often wondered how Mary would have sounded on "Heaven". It might have made a nice addition to A' Go-Go instead of "Memories". This song was new by The Elgins at the time of A' Go-Go's release so unlikely HDH would have had Mary record it at that time. Too bad. I also think a good A' Go-Go song for Florence would have been "Function At The Junction", a single release for Shorty Long at the time A' Go-Go was released, so also unlikely The Supremes would have recorded it then.

    As for the Reflections album, I think it's decent enough. I'm not sure any of the unreleased recordings would have changed its fate. Side 1 is fine, as is. I think Side 2 would have benefited with covers such as The Rascals "Groovin'" and The Association's "Never My Love", two recent #1 songs, in place of the older "What The World Needs Now" and "Foolish Things". Thankfully, we got the Love Child album a few months later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Ran i agree that the Sup version isn't a lost #1. I would say that DMF doing This Old Heart is more of a lost hit than DMC doing Heaven. it's a little too prim and proper. the Elgins added some grit to it and made it more exciting. a little more grit and rawness with their vocals contrasted with the soothing lyric of Heaven.
    I love the girls' version of "This Old Heart of Mine". I think it could have gone top 10 if the Isley Bros hadn't hit with it first. The Funks kicked butt on the Isley's. That track alone is one of my all time favorite Motown cuts. And they didn't half step on Tammi Terrell's version either. I don't like "dissin" the LA musicians because they really were so very talented and they created some great tracks in their own right. However, there was just something magical about what the Funks could do and to me some of those Supremes' covers suffer from utilizing the LA musicians rather than the Funks. Although to be fair in criticism, there are some of the covers that the Funks are on that still pale in comparison to the performance they gave on the original. And so that there are no misconceptions about how I feel regarding the talent of the LA musicians, they backed the girls up on one of my all time favorite Supremes and Motown cuts, "Love Is Here and Now You're Gone". They did an excellent job and I had no idea it wasn't the Funks until a few years ago. [[Which of course begs the question what "Love Is Here" would have sounded like if it were cut in Detroit?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnjeb View Post
    I was very disappointed in the DRATS version of "Heaven". The same with "Lonely Arms" and "Come On And See Me". I have warmed-up to the latter two songs, but to this day I can't bear to hear the DRATS version of "Heaven". The Elgins album is still a favorite of mine. I bought it on a whim, songs unheard, in 1966.

    I had often wondered how Mary would have sounded on "Heaven". It might have made a nice addition to A' Go-Go instead of "Memories". This song was new by The Elgins at the time of A' Go-Go's release so unlikely HDH would have had Mary record it at that time. Too bad. I also think a good A' Go-Go song for Florence would have been "Function At The Junction", a single release for Shorty Long at the time A' Go-Go was released, so also unlikely The Supremes would have recorded it then.

    As for the Reflections album, I think it's decent enough. I'm not sure any of the unreleased recordings would have changed its fate. Side 1 is fine, as is. I think Side 2 would have benefited with covers such as The Rascals "Groovin'" and The Association's "Never My Love", two recent #1 songs, in place of the older "What The World Needs Now" and "Foolish Things". Thankfully, we got the Love Child album a few months later.
    I think Mary would have done a better job with "Heaven" than she did with "Memories", a song arranged in a way that IMO didn't showcase Mary's talents. I also think Flo would have done a good job with "Heaven" also. Great idea about "Function". I think Flo would have really gotten into that one.

    When it comes to the Reflections album, I really think the covers should have been scrapped in place of Supremes originals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    When it comes to the Reflections album, I really think the covers should have been scrapped in place of Supremes originals.
    Absolutely. I don’t really hear Mary singing “Heaven Must Have Sent You”, But “Ode To Billie Joe” might have proved interesting. I think Diana does a really good job on the song, but Mary’s deeper voice might have been better suited to the songs darker message.

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    oh that's a good call - Heaven would have been a good Mary lead and i agree. maybe a stronger vehicle for her than Memories. I think she does a nice job on that one but Martha's slightly more aggressive vocals gives the song the edge it needs. it gets a little more sugary pop with Mary's.

    I don't if Heaven is "dance" enough for A Go Go. again, i did a playlist where i really focused on bigger dance tunes for AGG. then Sing HDH can take more of the traditional motown sound. heaven would have worked well on that

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    I think the Elgin's version is classic Motown but the Supremes is so lame.
    Obviously not the Funk Brothers to my ears.
    This is where I think Motown went wrong with the girls recording with the LA musicians. To laid back for me.
    I think the Reflections album should have dropped the covers,. Up and Away, What the World Needs, ode to Billie, ....also to laid back. Just to middle of the road.
    I would have also preferred more original material.
    A little Breeze
    Let the music play
    Come on see me

  18. #18
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    I know not everyone is a fan, but i think Diana sounds great on “Ode To Billie Joe”.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    I think the Elgin's version is classic Motown but the Supremes is so lame.
    Obviously not the Funk Brothers to my ears.
    This is where I think Motown went wrong with the girls recording with the LA musicians. To laid back for me.
    The Supremes' version was recorded entirely in Detroit with the Funk Brothers. No LA musicians.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    The Supremes' version was recorded entirely in Detroit with the Funk Brothers. No LA musicians.
    I think the reason why some feel they are hearing an LA sound and not Detroit is because the sound on the Supremes' cut is an exceptionally "clean" sound and as a result, to me, it sounds a little dull. I can't quite figure out if the Elgins' version was started on the old three-track system and later bounced to eight tracks or if both the Supremes and Elgins backing tracks were done on the eight-track equipment. At some point, I think the recording equipment Motown was using had been upgraded so much that the music ended up sounding "sterile" sometimes.

    Listening to the Elgins' version of 'Heaven Must Have Sent You', that's the '65/'66 Motown Sound [[think 'This Old Heart Of Mine', 'Love Is Like An Itching In My Heart', 'Helpless' [both the Tops and Kim Weston versions], 'It's The Same Old Song'); there is a very rich, full, almost dense sound- probably what Mike McLean referred to as something like "ten pounds of music in a five pound bag." Yes, it may have been a technically imperfect sound, but I guess to my uneducated ears, that sound had character and was vibrant. The backing track for the Supremes' version sounds a bit too perfect with absolutely not a lick of dirt or grime. The arrangement also is nothing close to the full-on arrangement of the Elgins' original.

    I've noticed the same issue with the Supremes' remake of 'My Guy', Martha and the Vandellas' remake of the Four Tops' 'Since You've Been Gone' and generally anytime Motown redid a pre-'66 song with post-'66 recording equipment and musical arrangement. Something gets lost in the music because you can't re-create the sound made on the older recording equipment; everything sounds just a bit too polished and as if the tapes had been cleansed with the strongest disinfectant ever made.
    Last edited by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance; 03-30-2023 at 11:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance View Post
    I think the reason why some feel they are hearing an LA sound and not Detroit is because the sound on the Supremes' cut is an exceptionally "clean" sound and as a result, to me, it sounds a little dull. I can't quite figure out if the Elgins' version was started on the old three-track system and later bounced to eight tracks or if both the Supremes and Elgins backing tracks were done on the eight-track equipment. At some point, I think the recording equipment Motown was using had been upgraded so much that the music ended up sounding "sterile" sometimes.

    Listening to the Elgins' version of 'Heaven Must Have Sent You', that's the '65/'66 Motown Sound [[think 'This Old Heart Of Mine', 'Love Is Like An Itching In My Heart', 'Helpless' [both the Tops and Kim Weston versions], 'It's The Same Old Song'); there is a very rich, full, almost dense sound- probably what Mike McLean referred to as something like "ten pounds of music in a five pound bag." Yes, it may have been a technically imperfect sound, but I guess to my uneducated ears, that sound had character and was vibrant. The backing track for the Supremes' version sounds a bit too perfect with absolutely not a lick of dirt or grime. The arrangement also is nothing close to the full-on arrangement of the Elgins' original.

    I've noticed the same issue with the Supremes' remake of 'My Guy', Martha and the Vandellas' remake of the Four Tops' 'Since You've Been Gone' and generally anytime Motown redid a pre-'66 song with post-'66 recording equipment and musical arrangement. Something gets lost in the music because you can't re-create the sound made on the older recording equipment; everything sounds just a bit too polished and as if the tapes had been cleansed with the strongest disinfectant ever made.
    I very much agree. Production aside, i also think the Diana Ross voice was not always a great fit for other Motown songs. The Supremes hits were tailor made for her voice which is why they worked so well. Diana’s pristine, extremely well enunciated style of singing just didn’t work on certain songs that sounded better with a less stylised vocal delivery.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    I think the Elgin's version is classic Motown but the Supremes is so lame.
    Obviously not the Funk Brothers to my ears.
    This is where I think Motown went wrong with the girls recording with the LA musicians. To laid back for me.
    I think the Reflections album should have dropped the covers,. Up and Away, What the World Needs, ode to Billie, ....also to laid back. Just to middle of the road.
    I would have also preferred more original material.
    A little Breeze
    Let the music play
    Come on see me
    i don't feel that the songs selected for covers was wrong or that including those tunes was inherently a bad idea. Up Up and Away by the 5D is one of the top songs of "sunshine pop" aka the LA Sound. In and Out of Love is also categorized as sunshine pop. I think the execution of the covers was the problem. Up is fine IMO. a solid cover, nothing revolutionary but fine. What the World drags. I don't hate it as much as others do. Diana's lead is soft which IMO works. F and M are ok but they sort of sleepwalk through their parts, like they did for much of the A Go Go sessions.

    I don't care for her cover of Ode. it's arranged too high IMO and her vocals sound thin and whiney. had they dropped the key i think she could have been more successful with a lower, huskier tone. or what about mary leading this one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i don't feel that the songs selected for covers was wrong or that including those tunes was inherently a bad idea. Up Up and Away by the 5D is one of the top songs of "sunshine pop" aka the LA Sound. In and Out of Love is also categorized as sunshine pop. I think the execution of the covers was the problem. Up is fine IMO. a solid cover, nothing revolutionary but fine. What the World drags. I don't hate it as much as others do. Diana's lead is soft which IMO works. F and M are ok but they sort of sleepwalk through their parts, like they did for much of the A Go Go sessions.

    I don't care for her cover of Ode. it's arranged too high IMO and her vocals sound thin and whiney. had they dropped the key i think she could have been more successful with a lower, huskier tone. or what about mary leading this one?
    I mentioned earlier that Mary’s deeper tones might have worked on “Billie Joe” with its rather somber message.. I still think Diana does a great job, and they were right to include it on the album.

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    Diana did a nice job with "Ode" in a technical sense. Meaning, if she were auditioning for the Supremes with it, she would have probably gotten in. In my view, it's always a singer's right to interpret a song a particular way. There are tons and tons of songs that are ripe for re-interpretations that are far different from the original. IMO "Ode to Billy Joe" is not one of them. The lyrics are dark and somber. The arrangement is dark and somber. I think if someone had tried to turn this song into a disco song in the 70s that it would have failed because the upbeat, feel good nature of disco just wouldn't have paired well with "Ode".

    Diana's "Ode" sounds too chipper for me and that's because she either chose not to or was instructed not to use her lower register. I think lower register Ross would have done an admirable job of it. The way she sounds as recorded, she might as well have been singing "I'm so glad Billy Joe McCallister jumped off the Tallahatchie bridge. Nevertheless, I have to admit, I do like it enough to listen to it without turning it off.

    Martha's version is very good. The Andantes really make it a great listen for me. Martha understood the assignment. She doesn't sound like Bobbie Gentry or Mary Wilson. But Martha's voice very much brings the spirit of the song, especially because the arrangement is a bit different from the original and from Diana's. I play Martha's version often.

    Now had Mary done it, she would have undoubtedly knocked it out of the park. I don't think Bobbie Gentry was any "better" a singer than Mary was. I think Mary could have easily pulled it off. Now Mary was no stranger to having a Supremes lead make an album- she had one on the previous studio album- but times, they were a'changing. This was DRATS now. Gordy had firmly introduced the group as Diana Ross and her backing vocalists and he took great pains to do it. So no, there would be no other woman singing lead on the very first Diana Ross and the Supremes studio album. Shoot, there was only one other Supreme on the first DRATS single, some kind of mix of Supremes and Andantes on the second one, and no Supremes on the third. Even if the producers had thought "Mary would be a good fit for this", it wasn't going to happen. It should have, but it wasn't.

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    ran - you're right that especially once it became DRATS no lead or song would be "right enough" for Mary or especially Cindy

    i do take pleasure in 1 small win for Mary though. on the LC album, Can't Shake It Loose has that marvelous duet going, where on the verses mary joins in. it's sort of reminiscent of how the miracles did You Really Got A Hold On Me.

    As we've discussed time and again, they could have allowed mary a song on an lp and maintained the 3-part harmonies and done these duet types of things without really reducing the star appeal or presence of Diana. it's a shame berry was so tunnel visioned

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post

    i do take pleasure in 1 small win for Mary though. on the LC album, Can't Shake It Loose has that marvelous duet going, where on the verses mary joins in. it's sort of reminiscent of how the miracles did You Really Got A Hold On Me.

    As we've discussed time and again, they could have allowed mary a song on an lp and maintained the 3-part harmonies and done these duet types of things without really reducing the star appeal or presence of Diana. it's a shame berry was so tunnel visioned
    I love the interplay between Diana and Mary on CAN'T SHAKE IT LOOSE. Cindy even gets a little bit during the break. And Mary is also dominant on the song it precedes on the album, I'LL SET YOU FREE.

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    Okay guys, I'm going to have to play "Can't Shake It Loose". It's not one of the ones I pay a lot of attention to. I certainly never noticed what you both reference. I officially have my Supremes homework for the weekend. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    I love the interplay between Diana and Mary on CAN'T SHAKE IT LOOSE. Cindy even gets a little bit during the break. And Mary is also dominant on the song it precedes on the album, I'LL SET YOU FREE.
    i haven't heard cindy but here's the highlights. will listen for her now

    around 0:40 when they sing the chorus again, they're now in 3-part and sound amazing. full backing vocals, not buried into the netherworld.

    at 1:05 on the second part of second verse, is the first duetting with D and M.

    the ooo's at the bridge are really nice. and if that's cindy, she's coming out nice and strong. is it maybe the A's?

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