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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    As she performed “So Close” at Central Park seems likely she really loved the song. It’s hard to imagine what she saw in such dross with ‘Murror Mirror” and “Muscles” at least appealing to the youth market.
    It was a confusing time to be a fan.
    i'm not totally opposed to it at least being on the album, although it should have had a totally redone production and vocal. I might be giving her way to much credit on strategic thinking but with the Silk Electric project, it seems as though she said "ok i've had an amazing run of super hot albums and i've been at this for decades. for this next album, i want to specifically experiment. every song i want to be different in genre, tone, etc."

    so you had:

    muscles - Michael Jackson [[he's a genre unto himself lol)
    who - disco/dance
    so close - doo wop
    fool for your love - hard rock
    i am me - reggae
    anywhere you run to - pop
    in your arms - operatic ballad
    still in love - power ballad
    love lies - rock ballad
    turn me over - kitsch

  2. #52
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    The snippet of LOVE OR LAZINESS heard at the end of this piece was promising . Was wondering why it was not released as a single . Have now listened to the whole thing a couple of times. Plods along Flat as a pancake. The groove is promising, pleasant, typical Ray Parker.
    Diana Ross vocal is distracting . Annoying, Singing too high ??

    Not to
    mention the lyrics this mother of two / three? is singing


    “you never show up til midnight then you go home
    early and that ain’t right - so I got a question I wanna ask you,
    do you love me or am I just a fool” …. Heeee haw….


    Ross was generous to give that tripe
    two hours

  3. #53
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    For a while, she opened the second part of her concerts with Fool For Your Love.
    For those attending, it was something to remember

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i'm not totally opposed to it at least being on the album, although it should have had a totally redone production and vocal. I might be giving her way to much credit on strategic thinking but with the Silk Electric project, it seems as though she said "ok i've had an amazing run of super hot albums and i've been at this for decades. for this next album, i want to specifically experiment. every song i want to be different in genre, tone, etc."

    so you had:

    muscles - Michael Jackson [[he's a genre unto himself lol)
    who - disco/dance
    so close - doo wop
    fool for your love - hard rock
    i am me - reggae
    anywhere you run to - pop
    in your arms - operatic ballad
    still in love - power ballad
    love lies - rock ballad
    turn me over - kitsch
    Most of the songs were leftovers front the “WDFFIL” sessions”, so I doubt there was much thinking behind it. Perhaps the album should have been titled “Cost Effective” as opposed to the rather misleading “Silk Electric” lol.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Most of the songs were leftovers front the “WDFFIL” sessions”, so I doubt there was much thinking behind it. Perhaps the album should have been titled “Cost Effective” as opposed to the rather misleading “Silk Electric” lol.
    haha oh i know i'm probably assuming WAY too much lol.

    but IF by some modicum of hope i'm correct, i think DR was entitled at this point in her career to do something experimental. i wouldn't have blamed her for that. but certainly the execution would have had to be MUCH more thoughtful and well done.

    maybe if she had really made a landmark debut album with RCA, then this could have been an interesting followup concept. i don't hate WDFFIL as an album. overall it's fine IMO but for such a momentous occasion it should have been a masterpiece. Lionel or Quincy producing. something worthy of her stature.

    but again, all of this is fantasy lol

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spreadinglove21 View Post
    Maybe one reason why Diana's version of In Your Arms sounds so blah to many is because the version by Whitney Houston and Teddy Pendergrass is much more dynamic in comparison?
    I thought the Teddy/Whitney version was every bit as insipid as Diana's. Poor Teddy had lost much of his vocal power following his terrible accident. I think he could have done a really raunchy solo version prior to his accident. It would have been a perfect fit for one of his Philly albums.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Teddy and Whitney's was a Top 10 hit on the US Soul Chart, Whitney's first. But yeah, I don't find it all that great. I don't remember being all that fond of Diana's either but I haven't listened to it in a while.

    And yes, anything is better than SO CLOSE. I still don't know how that one was ever even considered for single release.
    Didn't she co-write So Close? Releasing it as a single would have given her more royalties.
    I recall when we compiled the Voice of Love album. She insisted upon using a couple of lesser songs on there due to her involvement in the songwriting credits. It was all about the money.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Didn't she co-write So Close? Releasing it as a single would have given her more royalties.
    I recall when we compiled the Voice of Love album. She insisted upon using a couple of lesser songs on there due to her involvement in the songwriting credits. It was all about the money.
    like Streisand does... like most artist in fact.


    Is there a tendency to put shade on her every moves outside of Motown.
    Reading this topic and most of the other by the way, one can wonder.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albator View Post
    like Streisand does... like most artist in fact.


    Is there a tendency to put shade on her every moves outside of Motown.
    Reading this topic and most of the other by the way, one can wonder.
    i don't think the intent is shade. that would imply that the material she wrote and produced could stand shoulder to shoulder with songs produced by A&S or Chic or Masser. Shade would be discounting her work simply because she did it. there are more than enough reasons to question some of these songs without having to throw shade at them.

    for the most part, she was able to craft very strong backing tracks. the music behind the vocals is usually exciting and well mixed. it's the incredibly lazy vocals. unfortunately she was in charge and really didn't have a trusted source to tell her otherwise [[or at least one she would listen to).

    also we're only focusing on her music career. she made tons of brilliant decisions during the 80s that made her incredibly wealthy. from a financial perspective she was masterful in going from her supposed position in 1980 or so of a few hundred of thousands of dollars to her eventual many, many millions.

    and we're also not discussing THE most important decision she made in the 80s and made perfectly - focusing on her family. I'd say her order of priorities was 1) family 2) generating money 3) touring 4) recording new music. I truly believe if, for some reason, it was necessary for her to simply quit the music industry altogether due to a need or health of her children, she'd do it in a nanosecond and never regret it. she was a highly involved and caring mother and her relationship with her family is her biggest and most successful Gold Record.

    but as fans of the music, there are billions of What If's that intrigue us - what could they have done to better position the 70s Sups, why was Ross 78 such as mess of an album, could diana have scored bigger hits in the 80s, etc.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I thought the Teddy/Whitney version was every bit as insipid as Diana's. Poor Teddy had lost much of his vocal power following his terrible accident. I think he could have done a really raunchy solo version prior to his accident. It would have been a perfect fit for one of his Philly albums.
    i agree. this song was part of the Whitney catalog prior to when i really started listening to her. and i've not done a ton of exploration in her overall music. when i did finally hear this song, i already knew of the DR version. that one is ok, it's a very pretty theme and melody overall. I don't abhor SE like some fans do but i do find it both very disappointing and rather annoying with all of the echo and muffled voices. so i've played this song some but not tons. and when i heard the Whitney duet, frankly it was poorly produced too. didn't masser do it with them? perhaps this was during one of his really low periods due to drugs and demons. it's nowhere near the quality of his solo work with Diana or Whitney.

    a shame since the song certainly had potential to be amazing

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albator View Post
    like Streisand does... like most artist in fact.


    Is there a tendency to put shade on her every moves outside of Motown.
    Reading this topic and most of the other by the way, one can wonder.
    She recorded some great tracks for RCA. Not enough in my opinion but there were a few gems here and there, but much of the material sounded like she had been half asleep whilst recording it. She did tend to record during the twilight hours so perhaps that was the intention. Some of her Motown offerings were less than stellar but they usually sounded professional and slickly produced. I don't think Streisand would have allowed any of her albums to fall below the standards she demanded.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i agree. this song was part of the Whitney catalog prior to when i really started listening to her. and i've not done a ton of exploration in her overall music. when i did finally hear this song, i already knew of the DR version. that one is ok, it's a very pretty theme and melody overall. I don't abhor SE like some fans do but i do find it both very disappointing and rather annoying with all of the echo and muffled voices. so i've played this song some but not tons. and when i heard the Whitney duet, frankly it was poorly produced too. didn't masser do it with them? perhaps this was during one of his really low periods due to drugs and demons. it's nowhere near the quality of his solo work with Diana or Whitney.

    a shame since the song certainly had potential to be amazing
    I think Masser did produce much of Teddy's album. He would have been a great choice for a pre-accident Pendergrass. He was in a class of his own during that period. I saw him in concert just 2 or 3 weeks prior to his terrible accident and it was quite possibly the finest concert i ever witnessed. The man tried his very best to continue his recording career but the magic and the power had gone. It was such a crying shame. My heart broke for the guy.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    She recorded some great tracks for RCA. Not enough in my opinion but there were a few gems here and there, but much of the material sounded like she had been half asleep whilst recording it. She did tend to record during the twilight hours so perhaps that was the intention. Some of her Motown offerings were less than stellar but they usually sounded professional and slickly produced. I don't think Streisand would have allowed any of her albums to fall below the standards she demanded.
    I mention Streisand because you point out that Diana wanted to put her own songs on compilations when there is no justification for it. So I say, Streisand does the same thing but nobody will blame her.
    How many times did she put "by the way" or "here we are at last" on complications or b sides?
    Certainly more than Diana did.
    And if this allows some people to discover "I am me", it's not bad because it's a very good song.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I don't think Streisand would have allowed any of her albums to fall below the standards she demanded.
    I very much agree. I’ve been told from people who have previously worked with Streisand that she is meticulous down to the finest detail. Diana appeared far less concerned as regards her legacy and the quality of music she was putting out. As you mention, money was the priority.

  15. #65
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    • i

    • For someone meticulous, I always found this to be a lazy and lame stretch to try to tie-in the album title with the picture. If that's the picture you want to use, maybe change the album title??
    • SONGS FOR FLUFFY


    I wouldn't have thought much about it had she herself not called such attention to it
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 03-23-2023 at 03:22 PM.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albator View Post
    I mention Streisand because you point out that Diana wanted to put her own songs on compilations when there is no justification for it. So I say, Streisand does the same thing but nobody will blame her.
    How many times did she put "by the way" or "here we are at last" on complications or b sides?
    Certainly more than Diana did.
    And if this allows some people to discover "I am me", it's not bad because it's a very good song.
    completely agree that they both did it with the idea to earn higher royalties. and i don't think anyone really blames the idea overall. i think the difference is though that those Streisand songs are stronger than some of Diana's. I like I Am Me but i wouldn't call it out as a classic. Not sure i would label it really as "good" either. i enjoy it but that's because its fun.

    Apparently Diana is credited as co-writer on Muscles. that's a MUCH stronger song and would make much more sense to include in a package. besides the fact that is charted well.

    looks like her writing credits [[at least in part) at RCA include

    Work that body
    Muscles
    so close
    I am me
    fool for your love
    girls
    swept away
    fight for it
    shockwaves

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    • i

    • For someone meticulous, I always found this to be a lazy and lame stretch to try to tie-in the album title with the picture. If that's the picture you want to use, maybe change the album title??
    • SONGS FOR FLUFFY


    I wouldn't have thought much about it had she herself not called such attention to it
    It was tongue in cheek as described in the liner notes. The dog named Sadie was hers.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    completely agree that they both did it with the idea to earn higher royalties. and i don't think anyone really blames the idea overall. i think the difference is though that those Streisand songs are stronger than some of Diana's. I like I Am Me but i wouldn't call it out as a classic. Not sure i would label it really as "good" either. i enjoy it but that's because its fun.

    Apparently Diana is credited as co-writer on Muscles. that's a MUCH stronger song and would make much more sense to include in a package. besides the fact that is charted well.

    looks like her writing credits [[at least in part) at RCA include

    Work that body
    Muscles
    so close
    I am me
    fool for your love
    girls
    swept away
    fight for it
    shockwaves
    MJ wrote and produced “Muscles”.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post

    looks like her writing credits [[at least in part) at RCA include

    Work that body
    Muscles
    so close
    I am me
    fool for your love
    girls
    swept away
    fight for it
    shockwaves
    You left out TURN ME OVER.

    Also, she is only credited with writing the spoken intro for SWEPT AWAY.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    MJ wrote and produced “Muscles”.
    Diana is listed as a writer so she must have helped with some lyrics. even if she did 1 word, that would allow her to be one of the writers

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    You left out TURN ME OVER.

    Also, she is only credited with writing the spoken intro for SWEPT AWAY.
    HAHAHA if ever there was a song so wrongly overlooked by the Recording Academy lol

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albator View Post
    I mention Streisand because you point out that Diana wanted to put her own songs on compilations when there is no justification for it. So I say, Streisand does the same thing but nobody will blame her.
    How many times did she put "by the way" or "here we are at last" on complications or b sides?
    Certainly more than Diana did.
    And if this allows some people to discover "I am me", it's not bad because it's a very good song.
    I am glad you enjoyed I am me. I always hated it. She would be delighted to know you enjoyed it. Different strokes i guess.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Diana is listed as a writer so she must have helped with some lyrics. even if she did 1 word, that would allow her to be one of the writers
    You learn something everyday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I am glad you enjoyed I am me. I always hated it. She would be delighted to know you enjoyed it. Different strokes i guess.
    This is a very original song for her, such a departure from her other "affirmation song". "ain't been licked""coming out""up front""carry on".
    Here, she is quite ironic about it.

    Should I fail
    And come to my ruin
    Or if I succeed
    It would be, be my doing

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Diana is listed as a writer so she must have helped with some lyrics. even if she did 1 word, that would allow her to be one of the writers
    When did Diana start receiving writer credit for MUSCLES? I've only seen it credited to MJ.

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    When did Diana start receiving writer credit for MUSCLES? I've only seen it credited to MJ.
    i'm going by what was listed on wikipedia for the album. i've not done any further research on it. but if MJ brought the song to her and she helped tweak a lyric or two and he agreed to it, then she would be listed as a writer. typically the writers are listed in order of their contribution and certainly Diana is listed second, meaning he wrote more of it.

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i'm going by what was listed on wikipedia for the album. i've not done any further research on it. but if MJ brought the song to her and she helped tweak a lyric or two and he agreed to it, then she would be listed as a writer. typically the writers are listed in order of their contribution and certainly Diana is listed second, meaning he wrote more of it.
    I understand the contribution aspect if it happened. But on all copies I've seen, including the recent reissue of SILK ELECTRIC, only MJ is credited.

    Re the Wikipedia entry, I notice that Diana is listed as a co-writer for MUSCLES in the track listing section. But if you look at the text above it, in the album description, they only list MJ. The same is said in the separate entry for MUSCLES itself.

    I'm inclined to think that the addition of Diana as a writer in the track listing was just a mistake.

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    I understand the contribution aspect if it happened. But on all copies I've seen, including the recent reissue of SILK ELECTRIC, only MJ is credited.

    Re the Wikipedia entry, I notice that Diana is listed as a co-writer for MUSCLES in the track listing section. But if you look at the text above it, in the album description, they only list MJ. The same is said in the separate entry for MUSCLES itself.

    I'm inclined to think that the addition of Diana as a writer in the track listing was just a mistake.
    that very well could be. even at this early stage of his solo career, MJ was VERY savvy. I could easily see him NOT wanting to share any writing credits as he would probably have known the combo of his writing and Diana's singing would be a bit hit.

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    It was tongue in cheek as described in the liner notes. The dog named Sadie was hers.
    Well yes I didn’t think they literally couldn’t find a bird .
    So she went on about it some more in the liner notes?
    while I still find the cover dorky and the attempted tie-in lame, I am willing to concede it shows a sense of humor on her part and her willingness at expressing it this way is a good thing !
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 03-26-2023 at 01:29 AM.

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    plod plod plod ....



    so here's how to do it:





    and Diana might've had fun with it .... she could've gone more Blondie ...

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    Well yes I didn’t think they literally couldn’t find a bird .
    So she went on about it some more in the liner notes?
    while I still find the cover dorky and the attempted tie-in lame, I am willing to concede it shows a sense of humor on her part and her willingness at expressing it this way is a good thing !
    I’m pleased your pleased. Might have been worse and featured a dead tiger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spreadinglove21 View Post
    Maybe one reason why Diana's version of In Your Arms sounds so blah to many is because the version by Whitney Houston and Teddy Pendergrass is much more dynamic in comparison?
    I love the duet version. I also had heard it a million times before I even knew Diana had ever recorded it. When I finally got my hands on the SE album, I thought she did an okay to good job on it, but after being so familiar with Teddy and Whitney's version, Diana sounds a bit karaoke to me. I do think had she added it to her concerts back in the day, she could have killed it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    When I saw her in 1984, she performed SO CLOSE in a medley with RESCUE ME and FOOLS.
    She had absolutely no business touching "Rescue Me". Her ego was definitely out of control. I can imagine that she knew she had no business doing it but wanted to piss somebody off just because. Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    that very well could be. even at this early stage of his solo career, MJ was VERY savvy. I could easily see him NOT wanting to share any writing credits as he would probably have known the combo of his writing and Diana's singing would be a bit hit.
    ASCAP is showing only MJ as writer. I've never heard or read about Diana having any involvement in the writing process. I suspect either a Ross fanatic or an ill-informed know it all added the credit to Wiki.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    ASCAP is showing only MJ as writer. I've never heard or read about Diana having any involvement in the writing process. I suspect either a Ross fanatic or an ill-informed know it all added the credit to Wiki.
    very well could be. i was a little surprised to see her name there but then thought, "well maybe she helped with one phrase or a word or two here and there." but yeah, given MJ's understanding of the business side of things, he would probalby have not gone for that

    he is the one that out-beatled Paul just a year or two later and bought up the rights to their catalog. even after the two had been 'pals' duetting together

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post

    he is the one that out-beatled Paul just a year or two later and bought up the rights to their catalog. even after the two had been 'pals' duetting together
    Yeah, that was pretty shady of him.

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