Florence Ballard's funeral rare footage [[1976)

[motownhost01]

I would just like to share with my fellow Motown/Supremes fans a rare footage that I had just found. I'm always after rare stuff -- informations, videos, pictures, recordings, etc -- concerning Florence Ballard of the Supremes. I hope you all will enjoy to see such a rare moment between Diana Ross and Mary Wilson while giving an eulogy to Florence Ballard!

[REDHOT]

I know where you [[motownhost01) just got this from, my YouTube channel lol you just edited this from the video that i posted.

[motownhost01]

I know where you [[motownhost01) just got this from, my YouTube channel lol you just edited this from the video that i posted.

With all due respect I did that to share an specific of that video that wasn't concerning Diana Ross, since the whole documentary was really about her. But I do give you acknowledgment for sharing the documentary and thank you because I never saw that certain footage and I felt it would be nice to share this specific part for the Flo fans to be amused as I was when I did.

[Ollie9]

Is it any wonder Mary was furious at being called up to speak. She looks grief stricken and totally bewildered in this short clip. How we cope with grief is personal to each of us and this was not part of a show........Well to most.

[REDHOT]

I'm sorry if i offended you motownhost01, now that you put it that way, i'm glad you did what you did, i Apologize motown01.

[jim aka jtigre99]

Mary was still quite devastated over Florence's passing until she passed away herself. Mary was the optimistic one. She was raised in a middle class environment until her Mother came to Detroit to claim her. The security of middle class finances was replaced by the security of her very loving Mother, Johnnie Mae. Then she became a star in the Supremes. She had her tough times but never experienced anything like the passing of Florence. It devastated her, she was almost in shock and spoke about how it impacted her life seeing how terrible the World could be. Mary had the personality that she was happy and life was good. This showed her life wasn't always good. This was just sad to watch on film.

[motownhost01]

Don't need to apologize, you did not offend me at all. I'm sure you were well intentioned and so was I.
I'm a huge fan of Florence Ballard because of the story of her lifetime, her songs, her personality. If you are too, you probably know there are no footages of her after she was told to leave the Supremes, except for one quick video that shows her in the 1968/69 Bud Biliken parade in Chicago. Somebody else shared this video on youtube and did not said put it there that Florence Ballard was present so it was hard to find it. When that happened, I shared with a Facebook page called "Reflections: The Supremes legacy". I also shared a newspaper picture from 1975 when she was performing with The Deadly Nightshade. So it is very hard to have stuff about her around and when I find something rare I try to share with other because you get so overwhelmed when you see something that you never saw before concerning her.
So I apologize if I did not give you acknowlegment for this video, but I'm very happy you did share it on your YouTube channel!

[RanRan79]

Is it any wonder Mary was furious at being called up to speak. She looks grief stricken and totally bewildered in this short clip. How we cope with grief is personal to each of us and this was not part of a show........Well to most.

I don't think Diana was treating this as a show. She claims she wanted to bring some calm to the chaotic service. I really think that was easier for her to say than perhaps be more forthcoming with her feelings: that she just wanted to say something about Florence at her funeral. Diana often plays up her aloofness in order to hide her vulnerable side. There was another thread where we talked about the impact of Flo's death on Diana and Mary not too long ago. My position was that it was a severe pain for both of them, that they never got over. [[Let's be real, you never get over the pain of the loss of a loved one anyway.) Mary dealt with her pain by talking about Flo every chance she got. Diana buried hers and then on top of it, had the added pain of knowing that there are people who actually blame her. I feel for the lady.

But she was out of line for pulling Mary into this. You don't put people on the spot at a funeral. And it is one more example of how Diana sometimes thinks only of her own feelings and doesn't consider that of others.

That being said, it would have been really nice if the two of them could have gathered together beforehand and planned to sing something together at Flo's funeral, if they were in condition to do so. I think Flo would have really liked that.

[RanRan79]

Don't need to apologize, you did not offend me at all. I'm sure you were well intentioned and so was I.
I'm a huge fan of Florence Ballard because of the story of her lifetime, her songs, her personality. If you are too, you probably know there are no footages of her after she was told to leave the Supremes, except for one quick video that shows her in the 1968/69 Bud Biliken parade in Chicago. Somebody else shared this video on youtube and did not said put it there that Florence Ballard was present so it was hard to find it. When that happened, I shared with a Facebook page called "Reflections: The Supremes legacy". I also shared a newspaper picture from 1975 when she was performing with The Deadly Nightshade. So it is very hard to have stuff about her around and when I find something rare I try to share with other because you get so overwhelmed when you see something that you never saw before concerning her.
So I apologize if I did not give you acknowlegment for this video, but I'm very happy you did share it on your YouTube channel!

My fingers are always crossed that something will surface of Flo's solo career. She did a few television shows so hopefully that footage will appear somewhere.

[sup_fan]

i can see both sides of the situation with D and M up by the casket. while i certainly appreciate and acknowledge mary's personal and private grief, she was/is a celebrity and this was a funeral for one of the Supremes. if this had been a family member or a private friend, ok definitely. she had to know that this would be a huge media story and like it or not, as one of the Supremes, she would probably need to have some sort of involvement

now how diana handled it wasn't really the best. something this huge in their lives should have prompted discussion and dialog. the 3 supremes had shared something so incredible and something that was such a significant component of their lives. so when 1 of them suddenly died, that should have initiated a discussion of the bond, lives, love, etc. And they should have said "ok we're gonna have to make some sort of statement" either to AP or at the funeral or something. regardless of how personal the situation was, by default this was a public situation as well

and what halfwit was planning this funeral?!?! lol not trying to be tactless here. i know it was totally unexpected but someone somewhere should have been making at least a few decisions. Someone had to decide where the funeral would be held, selecting the casket, the minister, what plot she'd be buried in. how could they not have said "ok we need to at least ask Diana and Mary if they'd like to say something" asking people to speak or eulogize is not out of the ordinary

[sup_fan]

I don't think Diana was treating this as a show. She claims she wanted to bring some calm to the chaotic service. I really think that was easier for her to say than perhaps be more forthcoming with her feelings: that she just wanted to say something about Florence at her funeral. Diana often plays up her aloofness in order to hide her vulnerable side. There was another thread where we talked about the impact of Flo's death on Diana and Mary not too long ago. My position was that it was a severe pain for both of them, that they never got over. [[Let's be real, you never get over the pain of the loss of a loved one anyway.) Mary dealt with her pain by talking about Flo every chance she got. Diana buried hers and then on top of it, had the added pain of knowing that there are people who actually blame her. I feel for the lady.

But she was out of line for pulling Mary into this. You don't put people on the spot at a funeral. And it is one more example of how Diana sometimes thinks only of her own feelings and doesn't consider that of others.

That being said, it would have been really nice if the two of them could have gathered together beforehand and planned to sing something together at Flo's funeral, if they were in condition to do so. I think Flo would have really liked that.

yeah i agree with a lot of what you said. i think the fact that the whole event was so chaotic and disorganized, you ended up with people doing things with the right intention but perhaps the wrong tactics.

as much as i feel for mary and her personal grief - come on and get serious here. the trade off of celebrity, fame and money is that your life is in a fishbowl. and this wasn't just any death - if it had been mary's mother or a sibling, someone that wasn't part of the spotlight and celebrity, then yes. a more private situation would be possible. but this wasn't the death of a relative of Mary's or a personal friend. this wasn't the death of some random performer that was part of a group that had 1 mid-sized hit. this was the sudden and shocking death of A SUPREME. there is just no way this couldn't have been a massive media circus. Diana Mary and Flo were the most famous women in modern popular music. the 3 of them were a group and so the death of one forces the entire thing into a public affair. and so it would be expected for M and D to do or say something.

now the problem was how it was planned and carried out. it is shocking that D and M didn't [[as far as i know) have a phone call. they were still rather good friends in 76 and Flo had died. i just can't believe there wasn't some dialog, consoling, reaching out. i'm only going off of the fact that there are no public mentions of it. maybe they did and we just don't know.

Someone planning the whole affair should have also reached out and said "diana, mary - look you know you're going to have to say something. we don't expect a 30 min eulogy but can you stand up and say a word or two?"

[reese]

i can see both sides of the situation with D and M up by the casket. while i certainly appreciate and acknowledge mary's personal and private grief, she was/is a celebrity and this was a funeral for one of the Supremes. if this had been a family member or a private friend, ok definitely. she had to know that this would be a huge media story and like it or not, as one of the Supremes, she would probably need to have some sort of involvement

now how diana handled it wasn't really the best. something this huge in their lives should have prompted discussion and dialog. the 3 supremes had shared something so incredible and something that was such a significant component of their lives. so when 1 of them suddenly died, that should have initiated a discussion of the bond, lives, love, etc. And they should have said "ok we're gonna have to make some sort of statement" either to AP or at the funeral or something. regardless of how personal the situation was, by default this was a public situation as well

and what halfwit was planning this funeral?!?! lol not trying to be tactless here. i know it was totally unexpected but someone somewhere should have been making at least a few decisions. Someone had to decide where the funeral would be held, selecting the casket, the minister, what plot she'd be buried in. how could they not have said "ok we need to at least ask Diana and Mary if they'd like to say something" asking people to speak or eulogize is not out of the ordinary

Mary has said that she and Diana never discussed Flo's passing. Can you imagine having such an intimate subject never touched upon between the two people who had shared her greatest moments? It might have done both of them a world of good to get their feelings off their chests and may have pointed to a better friendship for them in the future as well.

Re the funeral, I assume Tommy and the family planned the funeral. I haven't seen the funeral program in a while so I don't remember if there was a speech section. But at practically every funeral I've attended, the floor was opened to those who wished to share their memories of the deceased.

[sup_fan]

Mary has said that she and Diana never discussed Flo's passing. Can you imagine having such an intimate subject never touched upon between the two people who had shared her greatest moments? It might have done both of them a world of good to get their feelings off their chests and may have pointed to a better friendship for them in the future as well.

Re the funeral, I assume Tommy and the family planned the funeral. I haven't seen the funeral program in a while so I don't remember if there was a speech section. But at practically every funeral I've attended, the floor was opened to those who wished to share their memories of the deceased.

i thought the direct quote from mary about no dialog with diana was referring to D's departure from the sups. but it could very well be that they never discussed Flo's passing either! and yes - that's just shocking if its true. i know there wasn't a huge amount of time between her death and the funeral. but still. this wouldn't be just a casual call from some random acquaintance.

and same for the funeral plan. Diana and Mary wouldn't be just anyone that wants to stand up and say something nice about the deceased. and often family does NOT want to speak. I'm not aware of Diana speaking at her mother's funeral [[i believe Rhonda did). and I don't believe mary attended her mother's funeral. both of those decisions i support 150% even if i might do otherwise.

but Flo's death, unfortunately, wasn't a private affair like both of those other events. as cold and heartless as it may seem, it was both a personal and a professional situation for them.

[reese]

i thought the direct quote from mary about no dialog with diana was referring to D's departure from the sups. but it could very well be that they never discussed Flo's passing either! and yes - that's just shocking if its true. i know there wasn't a huge amount of time between her death and the funeral. but still. this wouldn't be just a casual call from some random acquaintance.

In her books, Mary wrote that she and Diana never discussed Flo's departure or her death.

[RanRan79]

yeah i agree with a lot of what you said. i think the fact that the whole event was so chaotic and disorganized, you ended up with people doing things with the right intention but perhaps the wrong tactics.

as much as i feel for mary and her personal grief - come on and get serious here. the trade off of celebrity, fame and money is that your life is in a fishbowl. and this wasn't just any death - if it had been mary's mother or a sibling, someone that wasn't part of the spotlight and celebrity, then yes. a more private situation would be possible. but this wasn't the death of a relative of Mary's or a personal friend. this wasn't the death of some random performer that was part of a group that had 1 mid-sized hit. this was the sudden and shocking death of A SUPREME. there is just no way this couldn't have been a massive media circus. Diana Mary and Flo were the most famous women in modern popular music. the 3 of them were a group and so the death of one forces the entire thing into a public affair. and so it would be expected for M and D to do or say something.

now the problem was how it was planned and carried out. it is shocking that D and M didn't [[as far as i know) have a phone call. they were still rather good friends in 76 and Flo had died. i just can't believe there wasn't some dialog, consoling, reaching out. i'm only going off of the fact that there are no public mentions of it. maybe they did and we just don't know.

Someone planning the whole affair should have also reached out and said "diana, mary - look you know you're going to have to say something. we don't expect a 30 min eulogy but can you stand up and say a word or two?"

Sorry Sup, but this is an absolute bad take my friend. Yes, we're talking about celebrities, but they are still human beings and that doesn't get erased because millions of people know who they are.

No one is obligated to speak at a funeral. No One. Acknowledging someone's passing through a press release- or today on social media- is one thing. Getting up in front of hundreds of people to speak in the midst of grief is another. Yes, lots of people do it. I've done it. But I also prepared to do it. Mary was put on the spot. I had a similar situation play out in my family a few years ago. To those it happened to, it was mortifying. So I definitely get where Mary is coming from.

Diana got up spur of the moment, which was fine. But that was a decision she made and it should have been based on whether or not she was in the frame of mind to speak. What she did to Mary was almost unforgivable. You just don't interfere with other people's grief, I don't care how much money or how famous. It's such a horrible experience grieving someone you love, especially when the death comes out of nowhere.

Celebrities have to be afforded the same rights the rest of us have when it comes to these things.

[RanRan79]

and what halfwit was planning this funeral?!?! lol not trying to be tactless here. i know it was totally unexpected but someone somewhere should have been making at least a few decisions. Someone had to decide where the funeral would be held, selecting the casket, the minister, what plot she'd be buried in. how could they not have said "ok we need to at least ask Diana and Mary if they'd like to say something" asking people to speak or eulogize is not out of the ordinary

I'm sure the family planned everything, specifically Tommy, maybe Mrs. Ballard. They may have asked Diana and Mary if they wanted to do anything. They may not have thought to ask considering that when you're in the midst of grief, you don't dot all I's or cross all the t's. This family had just lost Florence, a wife, a mother, a daughter, a sister so unexpectedly. I can imagine a scenario where Diana and Mary just aren't even crossing their minds. If either of them wanted so badly to be included in the service, it really would have been on the two women to reach out and express that, rather than wait to be asked by people who have more important things on their minds.

Regarding the chaotic-ness of the events, remember the service had to be moved up by a day because the public found out and it was sure to become a real shit show. Celebrities who planned to attend now would be unable to do so. Thankfully Diana and Mary, the Tops, some Marvelettes and Vandellas and Stevie Wonder were able to make it anyway. We all know how crazy everything ended up with the crowd outside. Can you imagine how much worse it would have been if the funeral had taken place as originally announced? Yikes!

[jobucats]

Diana got up spur of the moment, which was fine. But that was a decision she made and it should have been based on whether or not she was in the frame of mind to speak. What she did to Mary was almost unforgivable. You just don't interfere with other people's grief, I don't care how much money or how famous. It's such a horrible experience grieving someone you love, especially when the death comes out of nowhere.

It seems to me to be another "damned if she did, and damned if she didn't" scenario. If Diana had not included Mary in the moment in front of the coffin, she would have been damned as trying to put the spotlight on herself. Sure, it was a very awkward situation for both ladies. No win situation.

[Ollie9]

Sorry Sup, but this is an absolute bad take my friend. Yes, we're talking about celebrities, but they are still human beings and that doesn't get erased because millions of people know who they are.

No one is obligated to speak at a funeral. No One. Acknowledging someone's passing through a press release- or today on social media- is one thing. Getting up in front of hundreds of people to speak in the midst of grief is another. Yes, lots of people do it. I've done it. But I also prepared to do it. Mary was put on the spot. I had a similar situation play out in my family a few years ago. To those it happened to, it was mortifying. So I definitely get where Mary is coming from.

Diana got up spur of the moment, which was fine. But that was a decision she made and it should have been based on whether or not she was in the frame of mind to speak. What she did to Mary was almost unforgivable. You just don't interfere with other people's grief, I don't care how much money or how famous. It's such a horrible experience grieving someone you love, especially when the death comes out of nowhere.

Celebrities have to be afforded the same rights the rest of us have when it comes to these things.

Agree 100%. Things could have gotten rather awkward had Mary declined. I wonder if Diana spoke to Berry regarding her attending. It probably wouldn’t have looked great having the two of them pulling up to the church in a plush limo.
I think it would have been better for Diana had she arrived together with Mary as opposed to the rather grand entrance she made.

[sup_fan]

Sorry Sup, but this is an absolute bad take my friend. Yes, we're talking about celebrities, but they are still human beings and that doesn't get erased because millions of people know who they are.

No one is obligated to speak at a funeral. No One. Acknowledging someone's passing through a press release- or today on social media- is one thing. Getting up in front of hundreds of people to speak in the midst of grief is another. Yes, lots of people do it. I've done it. But I also prepared to do it. Mary was put on the spot. I had a similar situation play out in my family a few years ago. To those it happened to, it was mortifying. So I definitely get where Mary is coming from.

Diana got up spur of the moment, which was fine. But that was a decision she made and it should have been based on whether or not she was in the frame of mind to speak. What she did to Mary was almost unforgivable. You just don't interfere with other people's grief, I don't care how much money or how famous. It's such a horrible experience grieving someone you love, especially when the death comes out of nowhere.

Celebrities have to be afforded the same rights the rest of us have when it comes to these things.

sorry Ran but i disagree with you, for the reasons i've stated. it's not a matter of right or wrong, of what would be nice or preferred. the fact is The Supremes was a popular group, each member received top-level public interest and adoration. Fans [[as we all have clearly demonstrated here) develop an intense personal bond with the public image and the members. therefore there would have to be some sort of a public setting to allow the fans and public to grieve and share in the situation. maybe what might have been better is a private funeral for immediate family and friends and then a public memorial service.

but you have fans that are more than just devoted followers. and the sups wasn't just some random group. all deaths are tragic so i'm not trying to see one is more important than the other. but if this was the passing of one of The Monitors or the Jewelettes or a random group, yeah you could get away without the big public brewhaha. but because this was the biggest, most successful female group in history, there is no way you can NOT have a public forum. and sorry - but D and M would have to be part of it. as beneficiaries of years of public adoration and money, there is a trade off in terms of privacy. fans would want to feel their grief is shared with their idols.

again i think the way in which it was supposedly handled was shoddy. but mary and diana had been major public figures for over 10 years when this happened. i don't think they could honestly have expected that they could just simply do nothing. the fact it wasn't coordinated ahead of time is appalling. and if mary had been asking "hey shouldn't we do something?" only to be told initially - no we're good. but then surprised with a "hey come on up" that's in poor taste too. But Mary was a celebrity and lived very very well off the fans support, as did Diana. right or wrong, fans would have felt they deserved some way to share in the grief with the girls.

[jobeterob]

It seems to me to be another "damned if she did, and damned if she didn't" scenario. If Diana had not included Mary in the moment in front of the coffin, she would have been damned as trying to put the spotlight on herself. Sure, it was a very awkward situation for both ladies. No win situation.

I agree with this.

If it were me, I would have done the same thing Diana did. To exclude Mary would have meant she was irrelevant.

But a lot of this is about upbringing and experience - and I think their experience would have said Mary should be included.

But to each his own.

Mary obviously didn't like it, wasn't ready for it and used it in the future.

[sup_fan]

It seems to me to be another "damned if she did, and damned if she didn't" scenario. If Diana had not included Mary in the moment in front of the coffin, she would have been damned as trying to put the spotlight on herself. Sure, it was a very awkward situation for both ladies. No win situation.

i think there should have been SOME sort of dialog between D and M prior to the funeral. mary herself put down Diana for NOT attending the gravesite service. i don't know if one or both did try to contact the other prior but, just as mary stated, Flo shared in some of the biggest moments of both D's and M's lives. and just as both should have been at the grave, both should have simply spoken with the other prior. to share their shared grief.

again, we're not talking some random person. they should have been able to talk and share their pain. provide some consolation to the other. and that would have been the time to say "ok we're going to have to either make a statement, say something, do something, etc."

also another damned if you do/don't is berry. since he wasn't a supreme it is i guess a bit different about not showing up in person. especially given the bad blood. it's my understanding that he/motown paid for the entire thing.

[jobeterob]

My opinion about this is not popular

But in all these incidents - from the funeral to M25 to RTL - I think Mary Wilson should have done the following and she would have financially benefited so much and the fans would have been satisfied so much more; what she should have done was bit her tongue and said to herself "well Diana is one of the biggest stars in the world and I have to shut my mouth and play second fiddle" and in the end, I'll benefit and so will many others.

But I didn't live through what Mary lived through; I didn't have to put up with Diana and Berry; Berry was a boss and quite a tyrant and enormously successful. Diana worked harder than anyone and was an enormously successful star who sometimes had to be a bitch.

And Mary analyzed it in her head and wouldn't do it. So as Randy T. said, in the end Mary got nothing and she lost Diana forever. Mary had to do everything she could to stir up publicity and compete with the FLOS for shows etc. and appear at pancake breakfasts and small fairs and complain about Diana every chance she could. And even had to ask Diana for money.

Maybe if I lived her life, I would have made the same choices she did.

[RanRan79]

It seems to me to be another "damned if she did, and damned if she didn't" scenario. If Diana had not included Mary in the moment in front of the coffin, she would have been damned as trying to put the spotlight on herself. Sure, it was a very awkward situation for both ladies. No win situation.

But that would mean Diana would have to sacrifice what is right to appease a crowd made up of folks she didn't know and they only knew her from her music. It would mean she would care more for how her detractors would see her vs making sure she didn't add to her friend- Mary's- grief.

Diana could have easily had someone give Mary a message at the service. "Would you go back and tell Mary that I want to say something about Florence. Ask her if she would like to go up with me so that we can represent the Supremes."

After that, if Diana goes up alone, she can always say Mary had the opportunity to speak and declined. If Mary agrees to speak, it's a nice moment. What actually happened was indecent.

[RanRan79]

Agree 100%. Things could have gotten rather awkward had Mary declined. I wonder if Diana spoke to Berry regarding her attending. It probably wouldn’t have looked great having the two of them pulling up to the church in a plush limo.
I think it would have been better for Diana had she arrived together with Mary as opposed to the rather grand entrance she made.

Again, Diana sometimes appears to be totally tone deaf in the way she presents herself. She doesn't want the negative but she invites it in. She should have stood in that line with her mother and sister. Actually, I can understand if it might have been a security risk to have Diana waiting with everyone else to march into the church, so I would be okay with her being allowed to at least wait in the vestibule for the service to get started, and then as everyone starts to march in, she joins in with her mother and Mary and the rest of the family friends. How she ended up sitting in the front row has never been explained. Mrs. Ross should have crept up there and tapped her on the shoulder and told her to get her butt back there with the rest of them where she belongs. Lol

[RanRan79]

sorry Ran but i disagree with you, for the reasons i've stated. it's not a matter of right or wrong, of what would be nice or preferred. the fact is The Supremes was a popular group, each member received top-level public interest and adoration. Fans [[as we all have clearly demonstrated here) develop an intense personal bond with the public image and the members. therefore there would have to be some sort of a public setting to allow the fans and public to grieve and share in the situation. maybe what might have been better is a private funeral for immediate family and friends and then a public memorial service.

but you have fans that are more than just devoted followers. and the sups wasn't just some random group. all deaths are tragic so i'm not trying to see one is more important than the other. but if this was the passing of one of The Monitors or the Jewelettes or a random group, yeah you could get away without the big public brewhaha. but because this was the biggest, most successful female group in history, there is no way you can NOT have a public forum. and sorry - but D and M would have to be part of it. as beneficiaries of years of public adoration and money, there is a trade off in terms of privacy. fans would want to feel their grief is shared with their idols.

again i think the way in which it was supposedly handled was shoddy. but mary and diana had been major public figures for over 10 years when this happened. i don't think they could honestly have expected that they could just simply do nothing. the fact it wasn't coordinated ahead of time is appalling. and if mary had been asking "hey shouldn't we do something?" only to be told initially - no we're good. but then surprised with a "hey come on up" that's in poor taste too. But Mary was a celebrity and lived very very well off the fans support, as did Diana. right or wrong, fans would have felt they deserved some way to share in the grief with the girls.

Sup, if I'm understanding you correctly, you're talking about a public memorial for Florence, yes? In that case, I think you're a bit too early for that to really be a thing, like Michael Jackson. I know celebrity funerals were sometimes open to the public back in the day, but it was probably rare for there to be a specific ceremony for fans. And lets be real, Florence had spent the last several years in almost obscurity until the story broke of her troubles. And while many people were rooting for her, it wasn't like this was Elvis. It's not like Florence died while a member of the Supremes. And again, this was 1976, things were done a bit different then than it would be today.

But again, you are diminishing the humanity of Florence's friends and family to satisfy the desires of fans. I just don't understand the rationale. Grief is often private. The funeral wasn't closed to the public. I think Flo's family did enough for the fans to not only allow them to attend the funeral but also allow them to view Flo's body at the funeral home. At what point do the Ballards, Chapmans, Diana and Mary, and the other people who knew and loved Florence beyond her skill as a vocalist and her recorded work and public performances be allowed to deal with that grief without the burden of worrying about satisfying those who only knew Flo as a member of the Supremes? I don't think that's fair, whether it be Flo or anyone else.

I didn't think the Jacksons owed us fans anything when MJ died, nor the Houstons when Whitney passed, nor the Franklins when Aretha went home. I'm glad they did, of course. For me these people were like family because of the joy they brought me throughout my life. But whatever grief I felt for the deceased didn't compare to the nightmare their loved ones were living and I didn't have the right to ask or demand a public anything, none of us did.

[RanRan79]

i think there should have been SOME sort of dialog between D and M prior to the funeral. mary herself put down Diana for NOT attending the gravesite service. i don't know if one or both did try to contact the other prior but, just as mary stated, Flo shared in some of the biggest moments of both D's and M's lives. and just as both should have been at the grave, both should have simply spoken with the other prior. to share their shared grief.

again, we're not talking some random person. they should have been able to talk and share their pain. provide some consolation to the other. and that would have been the time to say "ok we're going to have to either make a statement, say something, do something, etc."

also another damned if you do/don't is berry. since he wasn't a supreme it is i guess a bit different about not showing up in person. especially given the bad blood. it's my understanding that he/motown paid for the entire thing.

Mary says her assistant informed her of Flo's passing. I don't think Diana ever said how she found out. Perhaps someone in Mary's family- her mother maybe- called Mary and relayed the message. Maybe someone in Diana's family did the same. But it seems like communication is always sketchy when it comes to the Supremes, even in a moment like this. Lol

I don't know how eager either Mary or Diana would have been to speak to Tommy, but it's hard for me to believe that they both didn't reach out to Mrs. Ballard. I'm sure they did.

[sup_fan]

But that would mean Diana would have to sacrifice what is right to appease a crowd made up of folks she didn't know and they only knew her from her music. It would mean she would care more for how her detractors would see her vs making sure she didn't add to her friend- Mary's- grief.

Diana could have easily had someone give Mary a message at the service. "Would you go back and tell Mary that I want to say something about Florence. Ask her if she would like to go up with me so that we can represent the Supremes."

After that, if Diana goes up alone, she can always say Mary had the opportunity to speak and declined. If Mary agrees to speak, it's a nice moment. What actually happened was indecent.

totally agree that there are a myriad of other ways for diana to handle this and pretty much each would have been better than what supposedly did happen lol

[sup_fan]

Sup, if I'm understanding you correctly, you're talking about a public memorial for Florence, yes? In that case, I think you're a bit too early for that to really be a thing, like Michael Jackson. I know celebrity funerals were sometimes open to the public back in the day, but it was probably rare for there to be a specific ceremony for fans. And lets be real, Florence had spent the last several years in almost obscurity until the story broke of her troubles. And while many people were rooting for her, it wasn't like this was Elvis. It's not like Florence died while a member of the Supremes. And again, this was 1976, things were done a bit different then than it would be today.

But again, you are diminishing the humanity of Florence's friends and family to satisfy the desires of fans. I just don't understand the rationale. Grief is often private. The funeral wasn't closed to the public. I think Flo's family did enough for the fans to not only allow them to attend the funeral but also allow them to view Flo's body at the funeral home. At what point do the Ballards, Chapmans, Diana and Mary, and the other people who knew and loved Florence beyond her skill as a vocalist and her recorded work and public performances be allowed to deal with that grief without the burden of worrying about satisfying those who only knew Flo as a member of the Supremes? I don't think that's fair, whether it be Flo or anyone else.

I didn't think the Jacksons owed us fans anything when MJ died, nor the Houstons when Whitney passed, nor the Franklins when Aretha went home. I'm glad they did, of course. For me these people were like family because of the joy they brought me throughout my life. But whatever grief I felt for the deceased didn't compare to the nightmare their loved ones were living and I didn't have the right to ask or demand a public anything, none of us did.

totally get it that i might be looking at a solution from a 2023 POV and that may or may not have been how people would have even considered things. People who are public figures have to make that compromise of personal and public. while at a drastically different level, it's the same issue of how a fan might approach the star at a dinner table or on the street, asking for an autograph. the fact that someone is earning fame and fortune by being a public figure means that fans will demand some degree of access to their lives. that's just how the system works. there certainly have been those that despised it and tried to rebel against it. sometimes fans run into stars when they're not at their best and the situations can be unfortunate.

so the question is "how much is too much?"

while things like social media and TMZ didn't exist in the past, there were fan newsletters, gossip sheets, publications like Teen Beat and other fan magazines. Look at how many times Liz Taylor was in the news with her romances? or how many times did motown put out PR crap on the girls? or what about Rock Hudson having all those Beards at dates so no one would learn his dirty secrets. the list is endless and the fact of the matter is the bigger the celebrity and the more fame/fortune gathered from the public, the more the public is going to be interested in and demand info on the stars' lives.

Liz Taylor lost the one of the loves of her live [[Mike Todd) in a plane crash. Eddie Fisher [[married to Debbie Reynolds) was very close friends with Mike and Liz. the paparazzi and public are all up in the gossip of grieving Liz, the widow. then in Eddie's and Liz's grief become a bit hot and heavy. the divorces and the public outcry. the pope even fucking joined in on it!! lol Liz was starting work on Cleopatra and there was SOOOOOOOO much scandal. and then she started to play around with Richard Burton and divorced Eddie. but then poor liz got deathly ill. had to have an emergency tracheotomy and nearly died. she rebounds with winning an Oscar for Butterfield 8, which may or may not have been her best performance or the best of that year. but she was able to walk onto stage and whisper her acceptance speech. so did all of this public invasion of her life pay off? did she benefit from this wild tale of up and downs? certainly. it's all part of the game

the Sups were the biggest group, even if by 76 Flo was broke and mostly forgotten. But the fact that she died young and tragically [[as opposed to a non tragic death??? lol) added to the emotional whirlwind of the situation. if mary had retired in 70 and was quietly living her life in some suburban house with a husband and kids and all - because she HAD been a supreme with Flo she probably wouldn't be afforded a great deal of privacy.

i'm not saying this is a nice situation. i'm simply stating that the public made these celebrities. the public has paid for their fame and success. and therefore the public has demanded [[and the industry has complied) with feeding the PR machine. whether or not D and M liked having to share their grief with the public, there was no other option.

[sup_fan]

Mary says her assistant informed her of Flo's passing. I don't think Diana ever said how she found out. Perhaps someone in Mary's family- her mother maybe- called Mary and relayed the message. Maybe someone in Diana's family did the same. But it seems like communication is always sketchy when it comes to the Supremes, even in a moment like this. Lol

I don't know how eager either Mary or Diana would have been to speak to Tommy, but it's hard for me to believe that they both didn't reach out to Mrs. Ballard. I'm sure they did.

haha that's exactly right. seems like communication is definitely hit or miss with the girls.

again we don't know who did or didn't call each other. Randy also brings up a very telling point of the fact that the girls never really talked about what mattered. the issue of Berry and Diana's relationship seems to have been a taboo topic, the issue of diana's emergence as a star. the way the group was evolving more and more as the DR show. the personal conflicts especially between F and D. the apparent deep-seated resentment that Mary stewed on for decades. the lack of coordination with any of the reunions, the funeral.

we like to think of the sups as sisters. mary positions things as F and D being her two closest and dearest friends. but this lack of honest communication about topics that are wildly significant seems to show otherwise. makes the 3 seem more like distant working acquaintances rather than deep friends

[Ollie9]

I think wrestling Lisa out of Tommy’s arms when sensing a photo opportunity was rather insensitive.
It certainly worked as that was the pic that made the newspapers around the globe the following day.

[sup_fan]

I think wrestling Lisa out of Tommy’s arms when sensing a photo opportunity was rather insensitive.
It certainly worked as that was the pic that made the newspapers around the globe the following day.

haha yeah i think Diana made a lot of poor choices that day. the grand entrance while supposedly her mother, Mary and others waited in line. being seated in the front row. supposedly walking down the aisle, screaming and collapsing and having to be revived.

even if some of this was embellished by Randy and Miss Tonita Turner to add more juiciness to their books, the basic elements are definitely true.

[TNSUN]

I can't watch this video. I know that Diana Ross gravitated herself to comfort Flo's children, which defines her motherly instinct. Flo deserved more from Motown. Some may say that Flo was too instable for Motown. I believe some of her instability was caused by Motown. Although her pain from her personal rape trauma was never healed, Motown's greed compounded her suffering. A kinder corporate
ethic by Motown could have financially provided for Flo and her family. Motown had a finishing school for its artists. An employee relations department could have provided referrals to employees for needed personal therapy. James Jamerson and Florence Ballard were not the responsibility of Motown, yet they contributed to the success of Motown.

[sup_fan]

I can't watch this video. I know that Diana Ross gravitated herself to comfort Flo's children, which defines her motherly instinct. Flo deserved more from Motown. Some may say that Flo was too instable for Motown. I believe some of her instability was caused by Motown. Although her pain from her personal rape trauma was never healed, Motown's greed compounded her suffering. A kinder corporate
ethic by Motown could have financially provided for Flo and her family. Motown had a finishing school for its artists. An employee relations department could have provided referrals to employees for needed personal therapy. James Jamerson and Florence Ballard were not the responsibility of Motown, yet they contributed to the success of Motown.

unfortunately the whole industry of entertainment is pretty cut throat. motown certainly isn't unique in this regard. many stars [[d and m included) have stressed the need for newcomers to understand this is a BUSINESS.

another unfortunate thing is how society viewed things like mental health, rape and addiction. how these were approached in the 50s and 60s was very different from how people might approach them today. it doesn't justify the actions then but it does help explain. lord knows there'll be things we'd doing today that in 50 or 100 years will appear horrific and out of place.

in the end motown was a business with the goal of turning a profit. in order to turn that profit, they needed stars to perform and be popular. that's why they made up so much glop for the Sups PR pages and all - to spin a delightful story and sell more. there was a lot of money to be made and in a short time and so they needed people that could go and go fast.

[floyjoy678]

They never spoke of her death because that would mean they'd both have to take a look at themselves and their own flaws, which Diana especially was never good at doing. While I'm sure Diana and Mary both loved Flo, they probably felt some sense of guilt and that's never a good feeling to have. I think being booed probably startled Diana, who was already distraught. She even said herself years later it felt like walking into a lion's den.

I always did find it odd she ended up sitting at the front pew with Flo's family. I really can't decide where I sit on the fence with Diana and the funeral. There's a part of me that understands she probably wasn't in a clear state of mind and there's another part of me that's like woah she really did that?! [[like not going to the cemetery)

But I honestly can't believe that neither of them thought to call the other when they found out the news. And as others have said, it probably would have brought them closer together. But I've said this many, many times on here: communication was a not strong point between Diana and Mary. So many problems could have been avoided had it been.

[Ollie9]

They never spoke of her death because that would mean they'd both have to take a look at themselves and their own flaws, which Diana especially was never good at doing.

That’s a more then credible explanation Floy.

[floyjoy678]

Pondering about the non-communication between Mary and Diana actually just reminded me a friend's death in recent years. We had another mutual friend who I had a falling out with about 12 years ago and we didn't speak at all after. And she is actually the one who called me when our friend passed away. And I haven't seen her since the funeral and we fell off with communication again but we were able to put any petty BS between us aside for a few months there in light of our friend's death.

Eerily enough it was the same situation as Florence: an alcoholic who was having trouble getting her life together after a few down falls. And we both felt guilty that we weren't there for her more in the years leading up to her death. I still feel that way at times.

[REYnoldo Chavez]

I don't think Diana was treating this as a show. She claims she wanted to bring some calm to the chaotic service. I really think that was easier for her to say than perhaps be more forthcoming with her feelings: that she just wanted to say something about Florence at her funeral. Diana often plays up her aloofness in order to hide her vulnerable side. There was another thread where we talked about the impact of Flo's death on Diana and Mary not too long ago. My position was that it was a severe pain for both of them, that they never got over. [[Let's be real, you never get over the pain of the loss of a loved one anyway.) Mary dealt with her pain by talking about Flo every chance she got. Diana buried hers and then on top of it, had the added pain of knowing that there are people who actually blame her. I feel for the lady.

But she was out of line for pulling Mary into this. You don't put people on the spot at a funeral. And it is one more example of how Diana sometimes thinks only of her own feelings and doesn't consider that of others.

That being said, it would have been really nice if the two of them could have gathered together beforehand and planned to sing something together at Flo's funeral, if they were in condition to do so. I think Flo would have really liked that.

That's a load of crap. Diane made it all about her and her massive ego. She's a vile hog.

[RanRan79]

That's a load of crap. Diane made it all about her and her massive ego. She's a vile hog.

Dude, get a life.

[Bluebrock]

They never spoke of her death because that would mean they'd both have to take a look at themselves and their own flaws, which Diana especially was never good at doing. While I'm sure Diana and Mary both loved Flo, they probably felt some sense of guilt and that's never a good feeling to have. I think being booed probably startled Diana, who was already distraught. She even said herself years later it felt like walking into a lion's den.

I always did find it odd she ended up sitting at the front pew with Flo's family. I really can't decide where I sit on the fence with Diana and the funeral. There's a part of me that understands she probably wasn't in a clear state of mind and there's another part of me that's like woah she really did that?! [[like not going to the cemetery)

But I honestly can't believe that neither of them thought to call the other when they found out the news. And as others have said, it probably would have brought them closer together. But I've said this many, many times on here: communication was a not strong point between Diana and Mary. So many problems could have been avoided had it been.

I recall an interview with Mary in Blues and Soul Magazine in 1976 when the Supremes were promoting the High Energy album in the UK. The interviewer was the then Editor of Blues & Soul John Abbey who many years later became a friend of mine. John asked Mary about Florence. This was of course just a few months after Flo's passing and it must have been fresh in her mind. Mary said something akin to "i called Diana and we both just cried'. I cannot recall the exact words she used but it was something similar to that. I may still have that copy of the magazine in storage, but maybe another UK member of this forum has a copy somewhere? The front cover had the same solo photo of Mary as the one on the back sleeve of the High Energy album. If Mary was telling the truth here then it would contradict her later version where she said she and Diana never discussed Flo's passing. Does anyone have a copy of this edition of B&S? I have tried to find mine but thus far to no avail. Some of my copies were destroyed in a flood many years ago but i managed to save many issues and i hope this one is still somewhere in storage.

[Bluebrock]

That's a load of crap. Diane made it all about her and her massive ego. She's a vile hog.

She behaved very badly that day but your remark is uncalled for and out of order.

[sup_fan]

I recall an interview with Mary in Blues and Soul Magazine in 1976 when the Supremes were promoting the High Energy album in the UK. The interviewer was the then Editor of Blues & Soul John Abbey who many years later became a friend of mine. John asked Mary about Florence. This was of course just a few months after Flo's passing and it must have been fresh in her mind. Mary said something akin to "i called Diana and we both just cried'. I cannot recall the exact words she used but it was something similar to that. I may still have that copy of the magazine in storage, but maybe another UK member of this forum has a copy somewhere? The front cover had the same solo photo of Mary as the one on the back sleeve of the High Energy album. If Mary was telling the truth here then it would contradict her later version where she said she and Diana never discussed Flo's passing. Does anyone have a copy of this edition of B&S? I have tried to find mine but thus far to no avail. Some of my copies were destroyed in a flood many years ago but i managed to save many issues and i hope this one is still somewhere in storage.

thanks Blue. seems sort of odd saying this but what a nice thing to hear. it's such a sad moment and i am glad that, supposedly, the two were at least able to connect over this tragedy rather than facing it without the other.

i hope that came our right. not trying to say this is "happy" but just that they were able to comfort each other

[sup_fan]

She behaved very badly that day but your remark is uncalled for and out of order.

i clicked on this person's profile. they've only been on the forum a brief time and making vile remarks. it's perfectly fine to not care for Diana or Mary or any of the motown stars but to just troll and post nastiness is of no value

if we all just block him then he'll essentially be tuned out

[sup_fan]

Dude, get a life.

looks like another idiot troll crept onto the forum. let's all just block him and then he'll be invisible

[jim aka jtigre99]

The thing is is that by 1976, all three original Supremes had taken a path in life completely separate from one another and the closeness they had when touring together was not as close now because they were all forming their own paths in life. Still, it was obvious that each of them loved one another. The video was tough enough to see without anyone resorting to uncalled name calling. Death hits all of us differentlty and I don't think that Diana and Mary are any different than any other human beings on this Planet. Their own personalities defined how they reacted. Diana has always been someone who was in charge and probably felt that there were things to be done to have it be right. Should she have called Mary up without first discussing it with her? No, but Diana was used to Mary in the group and always being there with her. She has stated that Mary wasn't the decision making sort of person so that is why she felt she she had to make decisions. Mary was all about her heart, her feelings and her love but by 1976 she was in an abusive marriage, dealing with Motown no longer caring about her or her group so naturally she was no longer Mary from the 1960's, she was stronger and more confident yet still thinking with her heart. By 1976, Diana had far removed herself from the Supremes and was focused on her stardom, movies and her children. It pains me to see anyone say unkind words that are unnecessary about Diana, Mary, Florence or any other Supreme for that matter.

[RanRan79]

thanks Blue. seems sort of odd saying this but what a nice thing to hear. it's such a sad moment and i am glad that, supposedly, the two were at least able to connect over this tragedy rather than facing it without the other.

I wouldn't put much stock in it. Mary's assertion that the two never spoke about it seems more realistic in view of their relationship, where not communicating about such things seemed to be the rule, not the exception. Mary was from the Motown school of public relations. It was the same school that taught Diana to say that Flo left to go antiquing, or Shelly Berger to suggest that Flo sent a note to Diana saying she was through with the group, or Diana and Mary sitting down to discuss the end of the group if Flo left and if the group ended, Diana would marry Berry. In 1976 Mary Wilson would never have given an interview where she said she and Diana didn't talk in the wake of Flo's death, or talk about the death at all. 1983 Mary? Maybe. 1986 Mary? You betcha. But both Mary and Diana played their parts of the friendship Supremes publicly until things went south publicly and the gloves came off. Mary would never have been that forthcoming about even the smallest crack in her relationship with Diana in 1976, and vice versa.

[RanRan79]

looks like another idiot troll crept onto the forum. let's all just block him and then he'll be invisible

...Done...

[sup_fan]

I wouldn't put much stock in it. Mary's assertion that the two never spoke about it seems more realistic in view of their relationship, where not communicating about such things seemed to be the rule, not the exception. Mary was from the Motown school of public relations. It was the same school that taught Diana to say that Flo left to go antiquing, or Shelly Berger to suggest that Flo sent a note to Diana saying she was through with the group, or Diana and Mary sitting down to discuss the end of the group if Flo left and if the group ended, Diana would marry Berry. In 1976 Mary Wilson would never have given an interview where she said she and Diana didn't talk in the wake of Flo's death, or talk about the death at all. 1983 Mary? Maybe. 1986 Mary? You betcha. But both Mary and Diana played their parts of the friendship Supremes publicly until things went south publicly and the gloves came off. Mary would never have been that forthcoming about even the smallest crack in her relationship with Diana in 1976, and vice versa.

yes but couldn't the same be said about the Dreamgirl book and mary's later stances on Diana? the fact that she omitted Diana lending her money for a house and yet could recall some random evening in 1967 when diana was being a diva and made a road manager go find her a pizza in NYC at 1 AM or the time when they were 16 and "ran away" and then Diana was a Mean Girl and made mary sleep on the floor? lol

there was clearly selective memory recall with mary's books so it could certainly be possible that they did talk on the phone.

i do like to think that given their natural human emotions to learning of Flo's death and the incredible way their lives interacted through so many years that they did have contact with one another prior to the funeral. maybe they never discussed a coordinated eulogy but two people that were still on good terms who lost a third, close friend would most likely have some dialog

[RanRan79]

yes but couldn't the same be said about the Dreamgirl book and mary's later stances on Diana?

Nope. Dreamgirl came out when Mary was clearly over playing nice for the cameras. In the same book where she talks about the two of them never speaking about Flo's death, she also talks about getting the loan from Diana. There was no Motown PR in either of Mary's books. I believe her when she says they never talked about it.

Sometimes in the wake of death, you don't want to talk about it. You don't answer phones, you don't want people stopping by, you don't even want a bunch of "I'm sorry for your loss"es when you do run into people. I can certainly imagine that in the wake of Flo's death neither Mary nor Diana were all that interested in jumping on the phone with anyone, including one another, to commiserate about the loss of Florence. After the funeral, both women had to get back to work and I can imagine even then that it may have been too much for them to stop a moment to talk about Flo with one another. And by the time they saw each other again, time had passed and maybe it was a "why bring up something sad right now" type of thing and before long it just became another subject between them that they didn't broach.

You made a comment before about the whole Supremes sisters/friends thing. I think the reality is that in the early days Diana and Mary were friends as well as singing partners. I think Flo and Diana soon developed a friendship that came with spending so much time together. They probably all talked about boys and heartbreak and all that kind of girly stuff. When the Supremes hit the big time, the friendships changed because there was a different dynamic inserting itself. While the girls had always been described as serious about their craft, as 1964 turned into 1965, they were firmly out of the "just having fun" stage of their career and now it was all about a lot of money being made. Gordy was firmly in their relationship and he was the boss. Other people were involved. There was no more down time and decompressing. The three ladies saw each other for most of the 365 days of a year and started getting on each other's nerves. I think the friendship had long given way to them seeing one another as family. They were forever bonded, whether they liked each other every day or not. Mary's sentimentality wasn't going to allow her to see Flo and Diana as anything but her closest friends. Flo and Diana's "sister" comments read more truthful because, like I said, they were more like family after so long. But I think the big time, popularity, money and Gordy and co hovering over every little aspect of their lives probably lent itself to a relationship between the three that eventually became something where they didn't talk about the most important things and when they were bothered, rather than communicate effectively, they often lashed out and created a bigger problem, which of course is something Mary and Diana seemed to never grow out of when it came to each other.

But no, I think Mary's comment in the magazine was nothing more than Motown PR. I find it more believable that they didn't speak than a scenario where Mary would have ever said to a magazine in 1976 "No, Diana and I have not spoken about Florence" because it would not have looked good for either of them, unless she added "because it's just too painful", which may have been the reason in reality.

[westgrandboulevard]

I recall an interview with Mary in Blues and Soul Magazine in 1976 when the Supremes were promoting the High Energy album in the UK. The interviewer was the then Editor of Blues & Soul John Abbey who many years later became a friend of mine. John asked Mary about Florence. This was of course just a few months after Flo's passing and it must have been fresh in her mind. Mary said something akin to "i called Diana and we both just cried'. I cannot recall the exact words she used but it was something similar to that. I may still have that copy of the magazine in storage, but maybe another UK member of this forum has a copy somewhere? The front cover had the same solo photo of Mary as the one on the back sleeve of the High Energy album. If Mary was telling the truth here then it would contradict her later version where she said she and Diana never discussed Flo's passing. Does anyone have a copy of this edition of B&S? I have tried to find mine but thus far to no avail. Some of my copies were destroyed in a flood many years ago but i managed to save many issues and i hope this one is still somewhere in storage.

I am unsure if I have a copy of the Mary/Blues & Soul interview, but do you also remember an interview in the UK around that time, with Diana herself? If I can dig deep, I might even find it.

Am unsure if it was printed in a music paper.....or a national newspaper - which I think is more likely, and could well have been the Daily Mail.

It was titled 'The ghost that came to a press conference' [or similar words], and I believe was accompanied by separate photos of Diana and Florence. May have been at the 'Inn On The Park' - ?

Diana was being interviewed....she was asked about Florence passing away. I feel certain Diana said she answered a phone call, and heard Mary just crying, repeating "she's dead! she's dead!". Mary then told her it was Florence.

The interviewer then asked Diana did she cry...and she said "Yes, I cried.."

I remember reading it and thinking that interview could perhaps have been handled with more sensitivity. It seemed Diana might have become defensive about it, and feeling that the topic of Florence's death had overshadowed the real reason for her being there.

At one point in the same interview, I believe [if only just from memory] she was reported as saying "she's dead, and I'm not...".

And, reading that, I was left thinking "oh, Diana, you're only telling the truth, of course, but you are just not thinking how that remark might be taken..."

So, only just from memory, but it was Diana herself speaking, which was then reported in the press at that time, confirming that Mary had phoned her with the sad news. In that respect, it seems that Diana's account, and Mary's version in that interview with Blues & Soul, both from around the same time, do tally.

So I, too, thought it was odd that Mary later said she had never discussed it with Diana....but maybe she was just meaning 'in any great depth'......

[floyjoy678]

I don't know if it was the same interview but I recall an interview where Diana said something that she just wanted to shake Florence and snap her out of it. I know she got some flack for that one.