Don't pick one. Pick two! Supremes best song harmonies.

[TNSUN]

"I'm in Love Again" and "Who Could Ever Doubt My Love" are my top two favourites with Flo's and Mary's
vocals featured. When did the Andantes begin as background singers on The Supremes recordings. Diana Ross sounds phenomenal singing these songs. The Funk Brothers are awesome too.

[daviddh]

up the ladder to the roof
mr sandman

[reese]

Who Could Ever Doubt My Love
Make Someone Happy tie w/ Bring It On Home To Me [[live versions)

[BayouMotownMan]

"I'm in Love Again" and "Who Could Ever Doubt My Love" are my top two favourites with Flo's and Mary's
vocals featured. When did the Andantes begin as background singers on The Supremes recordings. Diana Ross sounds phenomenal singing these songs. The Funk Brothers are awesome too.

Hate to break this to you but there are no Supremes on I'm In Love Again. It's definitely Eddie Holland and perhaps Lamont Dozier or Brian Holland with him.

Also no Supremes are audible on Run, Run, Run, or Always In My Heart.

What likely happened is that HDH laid down the backing demos to be done by Mary and Flo but they never got around to it. Nobody knew the wiser when they were chosen for release.

I'm not convinced Mary and Flo are on Who Could Ever Doubt My Love. Backing voices sound generic, maybe the Andantes.

[BayouMotownMan]

My pics for those where there are true Supremes singing are:

Up The Ladder
Mr Blues

[TNSUN]

"I'm in Love Again" is one of Motown's Best Classic Songs.

[RanRan79]

Hate to break this to you but there are no Supremes on I'm In Love Again. It's definitely Eddie Holland and perhaps Lamont Dozier or Brian Holland with him.

Also no Supremes are audible on Run, Run, Run, or Always In My Heart.

What likely happened is that HDH laid down the backing demos to be done by Mary and Flo but they never got around to it. Nobody knew the wiser when they were chosen for release.

I'm not convinced Mary and Flo are on Who Could Ever Doubt My Love. Backing voices sound generic, maybe the Andantes.

Sorry Bayou, but that's definitely Flo and Mary on "I'm In Love Again". I think you might be mixing it up with something else. There are no male voices on the song.

I think it's possible that "Run" is the Andantes, but "Always" is Flo, Mary and Lamont Dozier.

[RanRan79]

"I'm in Love Again" and "Who Could Ever Doubt My Love" are my top two favourites with Flo's and Mary's
vocals featured. When did the Andantes begin as background singers on The Supremes recordings. Diana Ross sounds phenomenal singing these songs. The Funk Brothers are awesome too.

"I'm In Love Again" definitely gets my vote! But I'll pick two different ones:

"Come On Boy"
"Time Changes Things"

[Spreadinglove21]

Irving Berlin medley on Sullivan for me. Great showcase of how well DMC could work as an ensemble.

[RanRan79]

When did the Andantes begin as background singers on The Supremes recordings.

As far as I can tell, the Andantes first appear on "Run, Run, Run", which is from the spring of 1963. I think it's possible they sweeten up the high "ahs" on "Exception to the Rule". The first time I'm certain the Andantes are used on Supremes recordings is the re-recordings of the C&W tracks in November 1964, and even then they don't replace the Supremes but are added on with them. In December Diana cuts the lead for "Any Girl In Love" over the completed track for Kim Weston. The Andantes were already on Kim's and when the track was added to the Symphony album, the Andantes were never removed and replaced by Flo and Mary. Anyway, throughout 1965 the Andantes made occasional appearances, as they did throughout 1966 and into 1967. Once Flo was gone and Cindy was in, the Andantes were used extensively.

[RanRan79]

My pics for those where there are true Supremes singing are:

Up The Ladder
Mr Blues

TNSUN specified Flo and Mary, but if this were a general Supremes harmony pick, I would definitely go for "Mr. Blues", one of my all time favorite Supremes cuts. Perfect example of how great the three of them sounded together.

[BayouMotownMan]

[QUOTE=RanRan79;748864]Sorry Bayou, but that's definitely Flo and Mary on "I'm In Love Again". I think you might be mixing it up with something else. There are no male voices on the song.

Listen to it again Ran. That is Eddie Holland singing on the chorus. If Mary and Flo are on this track they are only on the oooohs and ahhhs. Eddie Holland had a soaring tenor voice and could emulate the backing tracks of many of the artists. Listen to him on Mary Wells He Holds His Own. He is on the chorus for sure with the Andantes supporting him.

Also the session logs show no recording dates for backing vocals on I'm in Love, only an instrumental date. So there is no confirming anything unfortunately

[milven]

The first thing that came to my mind when I read the question, was not a recording, but a performance by the group. They sang the STAR SPANGLED BANNER in perfect harmony. They expected to sing it with accompaniment but had to sing it acapella because their manager, Pedro had not prepared an arrangement. Even with the pressure of not knowing they would have to sing it acapella, they killed it. It was refreshing to see them perform as a group in harmony. I wish more of their recordings were a group in harmony.

[lucky2012]

The first thing that came to my mind when I read the question, was not a recording, but a performance by the group. They sang the STAR SPANGLED BANNER in perfect harmony. They expected to sing it with accompaniment but had to sing it acapella because their manager, Pedro had not prepared an arrangement. Even with the pressure of not knowing they would have to sing it acapella, they killed it. It was refreshing to see them perform as a group in harmony. I wish more of their recordings were a group in harmony.

Wow.I've seen this before, but I forgot how amazing they were!

[sup_fan]

one of my favs is Put On A Happy Face on the There's A Place for Us set. the second time they sing "spread sunshine all over the place..." they do it in 3-part harmony. because of the tonal qualities of the word "spread" it's very easy to open and broaden the sound, increasing volume. it's just amazing and they hit the 3-part and the sound just swells to perfection

Stoned Love - the second time they sing "i tell ya i ain't got no other" they do it in harmony. also the amazing "on and on and on and on" section at the end of the bridge. if you listen to Karaoke version with the lead stripped out, you can hear that there is only 3 voices on the track. it doesn't sound like they layered additional backing vocals. it's just JMC and then Jean also sings the lead. but in the backing vocals, jean is singing the 1st soprano note while Cindy does 2nd. the lead vocal is usually NOT on that top note and so you really hear jean twice.

[RanRan79]

Listen to it again Ran. That is Eddie Holland singing on the chorus. If Mary and Flo are on this track they are only on the oooohs and ahhhs. Eddie Holland had a soaring tenor voice and could emulate the backing tracks of many of the artists. Listen to him on Mary Wells He Holds His Own. He is on the chorus for sure with the Andantes supporting him.

Also the session logs show no recording dates for backing vocals on I'm in Love, only an instrumental date. So there is no confirming anything unfortunately

The "oohs" and "ahs" are the best example of Florence and Mary's abilities. I took your advice and listened to it again, because every now and then I hear something new you all have pointed out that I never recognized before. "I'm In Love Again" is one of my all time favorite Supremes songs, so I've heard it a million times. However, I took your advice and listened again. My thought remains the same: it's Flo and Mary. I will concede it's possible- very slimly possible- that there's an extra voice on the chorus which could very well be Eddie, but there's only two voices on those oohs and ahhs and they very much sound like typical Flo and Mary to me.

[lucky2012]

The "oohs" and "ahs" are the best example of Florence and Mary's abilities. I took your advice and listened to it again, because every now and then I hear something new you all have pointed out that I never recognized before. "I'm In Love Again" is one of my all time favorite Supremes songs, so I've heard it a million times. However, I took your advice and listened again. My thought remains the same: it's Flo and Mary. I will concede it's possible- very slimly possible- that there's an extra voice on the chorus which could very well be Eddie, but there's only two voices on those oohs and ahhs and they very much sound like typical Flo and Mary to me.

I agree, RanRan. This song and performance remains one of my favorite Supremes recordings. I only hear Mary's & Flo's lovely backing vocals. Diana's lead vocal is superb. I would have loved to hear them singing this live in concert or on TV.

[lucky2012]

Lazy Bones
Let Me Hear You Say [I Love You]

I wonder if someone will burst my pretty balloon and tell me the Andantes are on these.
I've already been disillusioned about Any Girl In Love and Baby Doll, but they remain among my favorite Supremes recordings. Still stellar and a pleasure to listen to.

[RanRan79]

I agree, RanRan. This song and performance remains one of my favorite Supremes recordings. I only hear Mary's & Flo's lovely backing vocals. Diana's lead vocal is superb. I would have loved to hear them singing this live in concert or on TV.

I think it's a travesty that the group didn't pull more album cuts into their live act. I think "I'm In Love Again" would have gone over well with both the youth audience and in a supper club setting. And I agree about Diana's vocal. To me everything about the record is perfect. I did a thread on it a year or two ago.

[RanRan79]

Lazy Bones
Let Me Hear You Say [I Love You]

I wonder if someone will burst my pretty balloon and tell me the Andantes are on these.
I've already been disillusioned about Any Girl In Love and Baby Doll, but they remain among my favorite Supremes recordings. Still stellar and a pleasure to listen to.

No bursting your balloon on "Lazy" and "Let Me Hear You", both of which I also think are great examples of their sound.

Regarding "Baby Doll", in a previous thread I made the claim that it was the only song on the C&W album that was Diana and the Andantes. Some people disagreed, which caused me to go back and listen...a tough task considering it's the only song on the album that I really can't stand. Listening closely, it does sound like Flo and Mary are doing some parts while the Andantes are doing others. It makes sense because apparently all of the C&W tracks were re-records from 1963. We have not yet gotten the 1963 version of "Sunset" and a couple others, including "Baby Doll". So if you listen to the first versions of some of the songs, like "Funny" or "Makes No Difference Now" where it's just the Supremes and then listen to the re-records for the actual album and the Andantes are on these songs in addition to the Supremes, it's not hard to believe that the 1963 version of "Baby Doll" is just the Supremes and the 1964 re-record is the Supremes and Andantes.

So you can cross "Baby Doll" off your disillusion list, but you gotta tough it out with "Any Girl In Love", a song that I've always loved and was disappointed when I figured out it wasn't Flo and Mary. I'm not really disappointed anymore, especially understanding that how it all came about wasn't a slight to Flo and Mary, or some sentiment that Diana was the only one who mattered. It was just one of those things. And truth is, as is, "Any Girl In Love" is one of my favs. Love Diana and the Andantes on this one.

[sup_fan]

No bursting your balloon on "Lazy" and "Let Me Hear You", both of which I also think are great examples of their sound.

Regarding "Baby Doll", in a previous thread I made the claim that it was the only song on the C&W album that was Diana and the Andantes. Some people disagreed, which caused me to go back and listen...a tough task considering it's the only song on the album that I really can't stand. Listening closely, it does sound like Flo and Mary are doing some parts while the Andantes are doing others. It makes sense because apparently all of the C&W tracks were re-records from 1963. We have not yet gotten the 1963 version of "Sunset" and a couple others, including "Baby Doll". So if you listen to the first versions of some of the songs, like "Funny" or "Makes No Difference Now" where it's just the Supremes and then listen to the re-records for the actual album and the Andantes are on these songs in addition to the Supremes, it's not hard to believe that the 1963 version of "Baby Doll" is just the Supremes and the 1964 re-record is the Supremes and Andantes.

So you can cross "Baby Doll" off your disillusion list, but you gotta tough it out with "Any Girl In Love", a song that I've always loved and was disappointed when I figured out it wasn't Flo and Mary. I'm not really disappointed anymore, especially understanding that how it all came about wasn't a slight to Flo and Mary, or some sentiment that Diana was the only one who mattered. It was just one of those things. And truth is, as is, "Any Girl In Love" is one of my favs. Love Diana and the Andantes on this one.

Baby Doll was completed in Feb 65 just prior to the album release. Tumbleweeds - Dec 64. funny how time slips completed in Feb 63. although i think that date might be a bit incomplete as the A's were added to this track too.

they did Funny, My Heart, Lazy bones and makes no difference in 63. i thought all of the others were then done in later 64 and in 65 in order to make up the album.

[RanRan79]

Baby Doll was completed in Feb 65 just prior to the album release. Tumbleweeds - Dec 64. funny how time slips completed in Feb 63. although i think that date might be a bit incomplete as the A's were added to this track too.

they did Funny, My Heart, Lazy bones and makes no difference in 63. i thought all of the others were then done in later 64 and in 65 in order to make up the album.

I have "Baby Doll" completed in December 1964.

All of the CW tracks were originally recorded in 1963 and the project shelved. [[I suspect that the initial CW project was either cancelled or morphed into the Ballads and Blues project.) In late 64 apparently there was a decision made to revisit these tunes and package them in a CW album for 1965. All of the songs that ended up on the CW album were all initially recorded with the Supremes in 1963. I assume with the exception of "My Heart Can't Take It", what we got on the album were the re-records from late 1964, and with the Andantes brought in for additional vocals. I always thought "Baby Doll" sounded like the only contemporary recording on the album, but George was pretty sure that there's a 1963 version of "Baby Doll" yet to be released. I reckon it's possible that the 1963 "Baby Doll" has a completely different track, so maybe the released "Baby Doll" is the only contemporary instrumental track of the bunch, while all the others were from 1963. I can't wait to hear the unreleased "Sunset" and "You Need Me".

[lucky2012]

No bursting your balloon on "Lazy" and "Let Me Hear You", both of which I also think are great examples of their sound.

Regarding "Baby Doll", in a previous thread I made the claim that it was the only song on the C&W album that was Diana and the Andantes. Some people disagreed, which caused me to go back and listen...a tough task considering it's the only song on the album that I really can't stand. Listening closely, it does sound like Flo and Mary are doing some parts while the Andantes are doing others. It makes sense because apparently all of the C&W tracks were re-records from 1963. We have not yet gotten the 1963 version of "Sunset" and a couple others, including "Baby Doll". So if you listen to the first versions of some of the songs, like "Funny" or "Makes No Difference Now" where it's just the Supremes and then listen to the re-records for the actual album and the Andantes are on these songs in addition to the Supremes, it's not hard to believe that the 1963 version of "Baby Doll" is just the Supremes and the 1964 re-record is the Supremes and Andantes.

So you can cross "Baby Doll" off your disillusion list, but you gotta tough it out with "Any Girl In Love", a song that I've always loved and was disappointed when I figured out it wasn't Flo and Mary. I'm not really disappointed anymore, especially understanding that how it all came about wasn't a slight to Flo and Mary, or some sentiment that Diana was the only one who mattered. It was just one of those things. And truth is, as is, "Any Girl In Love" is one of my favs. Love Diana and the Andantes on this one.

Baby Doll was my immediate favorite on CW&P, partly because I was reminded of Baby Love [Diana was developing her vocal style] and partly because, as a 12 year old , I was not into country-western music. I also loved the backing vocals by Mary & Flo .
Did you know Baby Doll and Sunset were both cowritten by Stevie Wonder with Clarence Paul?! If they were originally recorded in 1963, that was when Little Stevie Wonder was promoted as the 12 year-old genius and had a #1 single and album.

I'm glad we both feel the same about Any Girl In Love.

[motony]

the first Supremes record I ever bought new "Let Me Go The Right Way" backed by "Time Changes Things". I only bought it cause it was the same label Mary Wells was on.When I met them Nov. '62 in Mary Wells hotel room they could not beleive I knew who they were.

[jobeterob]

Manhattan
The Millie Rose Mame medley

[sup_fan]

I have "Baby Doll" completed in December 1964.

All of the CW tracks were originally recorded in 1963 and the project shelved. [[I suspect that the initial CW project was either cancelled or morphed into the Ballads and Blues project.) In late 64 apparently there was a decision made to revisit these tunes and package them in a CW album for 1965. All of the songs that ended up on the CW album were all initially recorded with the Supremes in 1963. I assume with the exception of "My Heart Can't Take It", what we got on the album were the re-records from late 1964, and with the Andantes brought in for additional vocals. I always thought "Baby Doll" sounded like the only contemporary recording on the album, but George was pretty sure that there's a 1963 version of "Baby Doll" yet to be released. I reckon it's possible that the 1963 "Baby Doll" has a completely different track, so maybe the released "Baby Doll" is the only contemporary instrumental track of the bunch, while all the others were from 1963. I can't wait to hear the unreleased "Sunset" and "You Need Me".

just went back and looked at some more of the days. you're right that more than i listed were recorded back in 63. i had forgotten about Banjo. Sunset and Tears in Vain were also 63. but the only dates i find for You Need Me and Baby Doll are the later ones. so maybe they needed just a couple more quick tunes to fill in the lp

[jobucats]

My initial choice would have been "Who Could Ever Doubt My Love"; although that's the only background vocal line we hear throughout the whole song.

Until Lucky 2012 mentioned, I had not even thought about "Lazy Bones." Great choice. I like the way these background vocals were recorded/mixed/processed in that they don't sound "too good" or "polished."

I am really enjoying all of the responses which address who is singing what on the various Supreme songs. My only hesitation in taking some of the information as 'gospel' is: Are the claims that so & so is singing background on this or that song based on documentation OR is it just based on the commenter's ears and what he/she is hearing? True, many folk will provide documentation that some expanded booklet stated this or that; however others word their responses with no indication if it's their opinion or documented. Just my observation. I love learning new facts.

[sup_fan]

My initial choice would have been "Who Could Ever Doubt My Love"; although that's the only background vocal line we hear throughout the whole song.

Until Lucky 2012 mentioned, I had not even thought about "Lazy Bones." Great choice. I like the way these background vocals were recorded/mixed/processed in that they don't sound "too good" or "polished."

I am really enjoying all of the responses which address who is singing what on the various Supreme songs. My only hesitation in taking some of the information as 'gospel' is: Are the claims that so & so is singing background on this or that song based on documentation OR is it just based on the commenter's ears and what he/she is hearing? True, many folk will provide documentation that some expanded booklet stated this or that; however others word their responses with no indication if it's their opinion or documented. Just my observation. I love learning new facts.

it depends. some has been confirmed by Andy or George. some has been detective work. i'm a geek lol and have built out an excel sheet with all of the touring dates, recording dates, etc. I've taken the booklets from all of the EE and made up this mini database. in the A Go Go book, in the timeline they list that the girls were scheduled to record on July 4 66 but Flo was a no show. the write up says that M and D alone recorded What Becomes of the Brokenhearted, with Diana joining Mary on backing vocals. so no Flo on that one. on 7/5/66 the girls returned to the studio and marlene joined them. the timeline lists a couple songs they recorded [[i think Misery Makes Its Home and Litte Misunderstanding) and then also say "among others recorded". so the timeilne doesn't actual state each song recorded

if you then go to the track listing in A Go Go booklet, they list recorded date info [[where known) for each track. this includes all of the known recording dates for things like initial demos, when strings were added, additional vocal recording dates, etc. Sometimes the timeline will talk about a track being cut on such and such a date but often they don't focus on dates that are specific to what the girls themselves are doing.

For You Can't Hurry Love, they list the recording dates and they do have the dates for when lead and backing vocals were recorded. it states that backing vocals were recorded on 7/5/66. so it is one of the "among others recorded" and so that shows that Marlene and Mary did the vocals. no flo on You Can't Hurry Love

i believe andy and george try to avoid stirring angst within the fan base. they know how passionate fans are - those that are die-hard fans for Diana or for mary or flo or whatever. so maybe they wanted to avoid a firestorm of people having a heartattack about flo not being on YCHL.

[RanRan79]

Baby Doll was my immediate favorite on CW&P, partly because I was reminded of Baby Love [Diana was developing her vocal style] and partly because, as a 12 year old , I was not into country-western music. I also loved the backing vocals by Mary & Flo .
Did you know Baby Doll and Sunset were both cowritten by Stevie Wonder with Clarence Paul?! If they were originally recorded in 1963, that was when Little Stevie Wonder was promoted as the 12 year-old genius and had a #1 single and album.

I'm glad we both feel the same about Any Girl In Love.

"Baby Doll" to me just seemed so juvenile compared to the way the girls approached the rest of the album. They sang the hell out of most of that stuff. [[IMO Diana's vocal on "Tumbleweeds" is not very good at all. However, Flo and Mary are killing it.) "Baby Doll" is a very pop vocal to my ears and I could do without it. But I'm glad someone loves it.

[RanRan79]

just went back and looked at some more of the days. you're right that more than i listed were recorded back in 63. i had forgotten about Banjo. Sunset and Tears in Vain were also 63. but the only dates i find for You Need Me and Baby Doll are the later ones. so maybe they needed just a couple more quick tunes to fill in the lp

According to George, all of the C&W songs have 1963 versions.

[RanRan79]

I am really enjoying all of the responses which address who is singing what on the various Supreme songs. My only hesitation in taking some of the information as 'gospel' is: Are the claims that so & so is singing background on this or that song based on documentation OR is it just based on the commenter's ears and what he/she is hearing? True, many folk will provide documentation that some expanded booklet stated this or that; however others word their responses with no indication if it's their opinion or documented. Just my observation. I love learning new facts.

I can't speak for anyone else, but in regards to my comments about who is singing on what, it's mostly the result of "trained" ears from years and years of playing the music. All three Supremes possessed fairly distinctive backing vocals. There are many who believe that the lead singer of a song is the most important factor. I have never subscribed to that because I love vocal group harmony. Thus, while some people gravitated to paying close attention to Diana's lead vocal, I was always more partial to focusing on the background vocals. I think it took me about a decade to feel confident enough to immediately determine whether a backing vocal was the Supremes or the Andantes. There are, however, times when I still get it wrong, usually when someone makes the claim and I have to go back and listen for myself. That happened recently with the Supremes' "Mr. Sandman". I always credited it to the original Supremes, but after someone mentioned that the voice on there isn't Florence, I took another listen and I'll be damned, they were right. So for me it's not really guess work. I still feel fairly confident in my abilities to state with "accuracy" who is who, but I always allow myself some room for error.

[mowsville]

So they could easily do an expanded C&W...mono/stereo and the complete 63 sessions..that I would LOVE.

[sup_fan]

According to George, all of the C&W songs have 1963 versions.

interesting! ok that changes things then

[sup_fan]

I can't speak for anyone else, but in regards to my comments about who is singing on what, it's mostly the result of "trained" ears from years and years of playing the music. All three Supremes possessed fairly distinctive backing vocals. There are many who believe that the lead singer of a song is the most important factor. I have never subscribed to that because I love vocal group harmony. Thus, while some people gravitated to paying close attention to Diana's lead vocal, I was always more partial to focusing on the background vocals. I think it took me about a decade to feel confident enough to immediately determine whether a backing vocal was the Supremes or the Andantes. There are, however, times when I still get it wrong, usually when someone makes the claim and I have to go back and listen for myself. That happened recently with the Supremes' "Mr. Sandman". I always credited it to the original Supremes, but after someone mentioned that the voice on there isn't Florence, I took another listen and I'll be damned, they were right. So for me it's not really guess work. I still feel fairly confident in my abilities to state with "accuracy" who is who, but I always allow myself some room for error.

sometimes [[but not always) you can try listening to the song and pick out the backing vocals based on the stereo channel. this seems to sort of work with the Floy Joy songs. don't remember which is which, but it seems to me that MJC are on, let's say, the left channel while the A's vocals are on the right. or visa versa. I think you can do the same with Going Down 3rd Time

I'd not heard about Flo not being on Mr Sandman before. are we sure about that? source? there's very limited recording date info, but Sincerely shares some of the same dates. so is flo not on that one too? both were July 65 and IMO that's a bit early for when flo was missing recording dates and activities with the group. although i do know it was June 65 when the girls played that Country Club gig in Detroit with Marlene.

[sup_fan]

So they could easily do an expanded C&W...mono/stereo and the complete 63 sessions..that I would LOVE.

i'd love that too. totally guessing here but i think that's why we got Unreleased 63. it might be a challenge to get CW&P done as an "official" EE. so maybe they took the songs that had alt leads or vocals and put them on Unreleased.

also i don't know that M and F are even on Baby Doll or some of them. it's sort of surprising how in some cases their backing vocal parts are quite a bit smaller than what's on the released version. like on Funny How Time. the released version has a full backing vocal track with extensive amounts of singing. but in reality F and M just do a little bit here and there.

[lucky2012]

"Baby Doll" to me just seemed so juvenile compared to the way the girls approached the rest of the album. They sang the hell out of most of that stuff. [[IMO Diana's vocal on "Tumbleweeds" is not very good at all. However, Flo and Mary are killing it.) "Baby Doll" is a very pop vocal to my ears and I could do without it. But I'm glad someone loves it.

Yes, juvenile lyrics and approach, but I think it gives a needed contrast to the serious, more mature country songs. After all, it was cowritten by a juvenile [S. Wonder]. I can somehow imagine Little Stevie Wonder singing it on an album circa 1963-1964.
Also, after all, the album is The Supremes Sing Country Western & Pop.
Seriously, though, I love the production, arrangement, music and vocals.

I agree about the weak lead vocal on Tumblin' Tumbleweeds. Now that is the one song I didn't care for.

[Ollie9]

Yes, juvenile lyrics and approach, but I think it gives a needed contrast to the serious, more mature country songs. After all, it was cowritten by a juvenile [S. Wonder]. I can somehow imagine Little Stevie Wonder singing it on an album circa 1963-1964.
Also, after all, the album is The Supremes Sing Country Western & Pop.
Seriously, though, I love the production, arrangement, music and vocals.

I agree about the weak lead vocal on Tumblin' Tumbleweeds. Now that is the one song I didn't care for.

I’m also a huge fan of “Baby Doll”, with Diana’s vocal being a little more rounded then on some of the other featured songs. It represents everything that made me first fall in love with the unique sound of Diana Ross.

[sup_fan]

I’m also a huge fan of “Baby Doll”, with Diana’s vocal being a little more rounded then on some of the other featured songs. It represents everything that made me first fall in love with the unique sound of Diana Ross.

i'd say i agree with it's inclusion in the album. it's a quality filler song. but it's not a standout IMO.

C&W music [[the little i know about it lol) can certainly have glass is half empty feeling. so for The Supremes, who were by now America's sweethearts, you do need some softness and tenderness. plus DR had already perfected that kittenish coy delivery with Baby Love so makes perfect sense that Berry might have said "ok we're dusting off the C&W stuff but we gotta have something a bit more cutesy and "supremes" to even out this track listing"

[bradsupremes]

Not speaking as the authority on this, but there are several songs that were recorded when Marlene stepped in while Florence was sick in June 1965. “Mr. Sandman” is one of those songs. There is a song on More Hits that has Diana, Mary, and Marlene doing the background vocals.

Mary and Florence are on “Baby Doll” with the Andantes. It’s not until the end of the track where they split with Mary and Florence sing “Baby doll, baby doll” and the Andantes sing the ooos.

[Ollie9]

i'd say i agree with it's inclusion in the album. it's a quality filler song. but it's not a standout IMO.

C&W music [[the little i know about it lol) can certainly have glass is half empty feeling. so for The Supremes, who were by now America's sweethearts, you do need some softness and tenderness. plus DR had already perfected that kittenish coy delivery with Baby Love so makes perfect sense that Berry might have said "ok we're dusting off the C&W stuff but we gotta have something a bit more cutesy and "supremes" to even out this track listing"

I disagree. For me it’s the standout track on the album and a precursor to how Diana’s voice would sound on hits such as “Baby Love” and “Come See About Me”.
I think it would have made for a brilliant single had it been released in 63.

[RanRan79]

So they could easily do an expanded C&W...mono/stereo and the complete 63 sessions..that I would LOVE.

Yeah, but the likelihood...Never mind, I won't complain.

I'm always hoping there will be some newly discovered tracks from this time, particularly from the Ballads and Blues project. I love their sound from a lot of the 1963 cuts.

I think C&W would have performed better if they had taken much of the album, added "Come On Boy", "Mr. Blues", "I Idolize You", maybe version 4 of "You're Gonna Come To Me", excluded the more country sounding tunes like "My Heart Can't Take It", "Tumbleweeds", "Banjo Band", the pop "Baby Doll", and packaged it as the Supremes Sing Ballads and Blues. I'm not saying it would have been a huge seller, but I'm guessing that the Supremes singing ballads and blues would not have raised as many eyebrows as the Supremes- who at this point are known for their r&b/pop hits- singing country western music.

As much as I love the C&W album, I think Gordy and Co messed up with this release as there really wasn't a demographic that it would have appealed to. Country fans would likely ignore it. The kids wouldn't be interested. The soul fans would pass on it. The grown folks would probably ask "what the hell is this crap?". The only chance the album had was if country fans who found themselves also loving the Supremes bought it, or the kids who were buying all things Supremes decided to give it a chance. I think Gordy was banking on the last one. The kids didn't take the bait.

[RanRan79]

I'd not heard about Flo not being on Mr Sandman before. are we sure about that? source? there's very limited recording date info, but Sincerely shares some of the same dates. so is flo not on that one too? both were July 65 and IMO that's a bit early for when flo was missing recording dates and activities with the group. although i do know it was June 65 when the girls played that Country Club gig in Detroit with Marlene.

Many years ago I picked up on the fact that Florence is not on "Sincerely". Actually at the time I just assumed it was the Andantes because it never occurred to me that if Flo wasn't on a song, Mary might still be on the song [[and vice versa). So when someone in the forum mentioned her not being on "Sandman", it just made sense since both songs were recorded on the same day. When I listened to "Sandman" with this in mind, it does seem like the high voice is Marlene and not Flo.

[RanRan79]

also i don't know that M and F are even on Baby Doll or some of them. it's sort of surprising how in some cases their backing vocal parts are quite a bit smaller than what's on the released version. like on Funny How Time. the released version has a full backing vocal track with extensive amounts of singing. but in reality F and M just do a little bit here and there.

If you listen to "Funny", Flo and Mary are singing everything. Paying close attention, you can hear the Andantes are right up under them, faintly, but audibly enough that the backing vocals sound amazingly full in comparison to how the 1963 version sounds with just Flo and Mary. When Diana sings "gotta go now", it's only the Andantes who repeat it. Other than that, the backing vocals are Flo, Mary along with the Andantes rather than just the Andantes other than in that one spot.

[RanRan79]

I agree about the weak lead vocal on Tumblin' Tumbleweeds. Now that is the one song I didn't care for.

I used to really like "Tumbleweeds" because of Flo and Mary. Unfortunately, Diana's vocal is so annoying that I rarely play it. She displayed such beautiful singing on this album. It's amazing to me that this one song where she isn't in the best voice wasn't shelved.

[RanRan79]

i'd say i agree with it's inclusion in the album. it's a quality filler song. but it's not a standout IMO.

C&W music [[the little i know about it lol) can certainly have glass is half empty feeling. so for The Supremes, who were by now America's sweethearts, you do need some softness and tenderness. plus DR had already perfected that kittenish coy delivery with Baby Love so makes perfect sense that Berry might have said "ok we're dusting off the C&W stuff but we gotta have something a bit more cutesy and "supremes" to even out this track listing"

Yeah, as Lucky pointed out, the album was called CW&Pop, so the "pop" had to be represented somehow. I could've done without it though.

[RanRan79]

Not speaking as the authority on this, but there are several songs that were recorded when Marlene stepped in while Florence was sick in June 1965. “Mr. Sandman” is one of those songs. There is a song on More Hits that has Diana, Mary, and Marlene doing the background vocals.

Mary and Florence are on “Baby Doll” with the Andantes. It’s not until the end of the track where they split with Mary and Florence sing “Baby doll, baby doll” and the Andantes sing the ooos.

Brad I don't know about "several" songs. Looking over the time frame- summer of 65- I can only see "Sandman" and "Sincerely". "Too Much A Little Too Soon" sounds like the Andantes to me, not Marlene and Mary. So just those three songs as far as I can tell.

I don't know that Flo is not on every cut on More Hits. I do hear what sounds like more than two voices on "He Holds His Own" though.

[floyjoy678]

There is one song on More Hits where I always swore I could hear Diana in the background but I swear I can hear Flo in there too and Mary. I don't know if it's the same song Brad is referring to.

My favorites in terms of the harmony are:
People
Mr. Blues
A Breathtaking Guy

[bradsupremes]

Brad I don't know about "several" songs. Looking over the time frame- summer of 65- I can only see "Sandman" and "Sincerely". "Too Much A Little Too Soon" sounds like the Andantes to me, not Marlene and Mary. So just those three songs as far as I can tell.

I don't know that Flo is not on every cut on More Hits. I do hear what sounds like more than two voices on "He Holds His Own" though.

Vocals for "Too Much A Little Too Soon" were added in 1966 and I believe those vocals are the Andantes as well.

There are two other songs that had vocal overdubs added in mid-June 1965 with Marlene - one is on More Hits, the other was intended for There's A Place For Us.

[sup_fan]

If you listen to "Funny", Flo and Mary are singing everything. Paying close attention, you can hear the Andantes are right up under them, faintly, but audibly enough that the backing vocals sound amazingly full in comparison to how the 1963 version sounds with just Flo and Mary. When Diana sings "gotta go now", it's only the Andantes who repeat it. Other than that, the backing vocals are Flo, Mary along with the Andantes rather than just the Andantes other than in that one spot.

i don't have it in front of me to listen to but i thought that if you listen to the version of Funny on unreleased 63, there's a lot less backing vocals than on the released version. and i'm not talking about the # of voices. when the added the As they just added more parts throughout the song. and on Makes No Difference, there's almost no M and F backing vocals. they do some 3 part work together but i think it's mostly just their leads

again, i don't have them to play just now while typing so i might be mis-remembering the amount of difference between the backing on Unreleased 63 versions and the released versions

[sup_fan]

Yeah, but the likelihood...Never mind, I won't complain.

I'm always hoping there will be some newly discovered tracks from this time, particularly from the Ballads and Blues project. I love their sound from a lot of the 1963 cuts.

I think C&W would have performed better if they had taken much of the album, added "Come On Boy", "Mr. Blues", "I Idolize You", maybe version 4 of "You're Gonna Come To Me", excluded the more country sounding tunes like "My Heart Can't Take It", "Tumbleweeds", "Banjo Band", the pop "Baby Doll", and packaged it as the Supremes Sing Ballads and Blues. I'm not saying it would have been a huge seller, but I'm guessing that the Supremes singing ballads and blues would not have raised as many eyebrows as the Supremes- who at this point are known for their r&b/pop hits- singing country western music.

As much as I love the C&W album, I think Gordy and Co messed up with this release as there really wasn't a demographic that it would have appealed to. Country fans would likely ignore it. The kids wouldn't be interested. The soul fans would pass on it. The grown folks would probably ask "what the hell is this crap?". The only chance the album had was if country fans who found themselves also loving the Supremes bought it, or the kids who were buying all things Supremes decided to give it a chance. I think Gordy was banking on the last one. The kids didn't take the bait.

i think the whole Country thing was due solely to Ray Charles' groundbreaking album. it is a masterpiece and just such an enjoyable set. to this day i still enjoy it

once the girls hit pay dirt with WDOLG, berry knew it was time to launch a variety of specialty projects. it would be SO interesting to have old memos and meeting minutes to heard why they picked the ones they did. clearly they were going for variety to show off their versatility. so you had material like the beatles, country, sam cooke, global tunes, MOR, historic girl groups. all of these were late 64 and early 65. then they picked the ones they did and canned the others.

your suggestion though is quite viable i think. i'd have maybe done something like "The Supremes sing Ballads and Country" then used songs like

this is it
Funny How Time
come on boy
makes no diff
mr blues
tumbleweeds

everyday i'll love you more
sunset
Baby doll
lazy bones
my heart
bye baby