Don't make hurting me a habit- cute one from the marvelettes

**arr&bee** · 02-15-2023, 08:38 PM

Too bad this little cutie wasn't released,from the lp[sohisticated soul]catchy and cute....any fans of this one?

**westgrandboulevard** · 02-15-2023, 08:46 PM

Ever since it was first released, Arr&bee. And also that new stereo mix on 'Forever More' Complete Motown Albums Vol 2...which I think was actually the first version recorded...

Everything is good about it.....as you say, catchy and cute.

And an excellent production by Weatherspoon and Dean...featuring the best ever blending of background vocals by The Marvelettes and The Andantes....

**reese** · 02-15-2023, 09:59 PM

A great song from an even greater album.

**kenneth** · 02-15-2023, 10:18 PM

I always thought it was a single, but I guess it was the B-side of Anne Bogan's lead on "I'm Gonna Hold On Long As I Can."

I always liked the song, and "Sophisticated Soul" was my favorite Marvelettes album until I grew to love "Return." I still like it, but think it a little too "juvenile" sounding compared to some of their other material from that time frame. Compare this one to "The Stranger" from the same album, and "Don't Make Hurting" seems like a song from years earlier. As I said, I like the tune but think it suffers from sounding like a throwback to an earlier "girl group" sound, to some degree.

**daviddesper** · 02-16-2023, 12:36 AM

Their three albums from 1967-69 were all great and had quite a few strong songs on them. [[Not so much so for the Return album for me, although of course I bought it.) I loved their more mature sound during this time frame, which of course was primarily due to using Wanda on lead.

**Philles/Motown Gary** · 02-16-2023, 12:41 AM

I love The Marvelettes' "Don't Make Hurting Me A Habit". I fail to see any "cuteness" about it. To my ears, it's a beautiful, mature love song -- typical of Dean & Weatherspoon's knack for writing and producing heart-warming love ballsds, i.e., "What Becomes Of The Brokenhearted." Wanda's lead vocal shines, and The Andantes' back-up vocals are gorgeous. Among The Marvelettes' finest!

Also, The Marv's final 4 albums were top-notch Motown -- especially 1967's self-titled "Pink" album, 1968's "Sophisticated Soul" [[that title still turns me on!), and 1969's "In Full Bloom". I would have loved 1970's "Return Of..." more had the songs been new compositions instead of cover versions of older Motown war-horses.

**TomatoTom123** · 02-16-2023, 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary

I love The Marvelettes' "Don't Make Hurting Me A Habit". I fail to see any "cuteness" about it. To my ears, it's a beautiful, mature love song -- typical of Dean & Weatherspoon's knack for writing and producing heart-warming love ballsds, i.e., "What Becomes Of The Brokenhearted." Wanda's lead vocal shines, and The Andantes' back-up vocals are gorgeous. Among The Marvelettes' finest!

Also, The Marv's final 4 albums were top-notch Motown -- especially 1967's self-titled "Pink" album, 1968's "Sophisticated Soul" [[that title still turns me on!), and 1969's "In Full Bloom". I would have loved 1970's "Return Of..." more had the songs been new compositions instead of cover versions of older Motown war-horses.

Hey Gary, do you like "Our Lips Just Seem To Rhyme Every Time"? I believe the only non-cover song from Return Of The Marvelettes!

I think it’s a fun lil number!

**Philles/Motown Gary** · 02-16-2023, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by TomatoTom123

Hey Gary, do you like "Our Lips Just Seem To Rhyme Every Time"? I believe the only non-cover song from Return Of The Marvelettes!

I think it’s a fun lil number!

Hey Tom! Yeah, I like it. It's a snappy little frolic! And Wanda seems to be having a ball! To be perfectly honest, I don't really love it, per say, but I do like it.

**Graham Jarvis** · 02-16-2023, 09:34 AM

Here's the 45: Don't Make Hurting Me A Habit

**motony** · 02-16-2023, 11:59 AM

"Don't Make Hurting Me A Habit" is a great recording & was the flip side of "I'm Gonna Hold On...". I thought "Our Lips...." should have been a single from the Return LP it had the "now" sound to be the start of the 70's, but Motown knew Wanda was too far gone.

**danman869** · 02-16-2023, 01:34 PM

Long been one of my favorites from the "Sophisticated Soul" album!

Here's version 1 from the "Forever More" set. A little bit slower, but still appealing!

And, of course, the released version ["version 2"]:

**motony** · 02-16-2023, 02:16 PM

sounds like Kat & Ann with the Andantes esp. on the 1st "Don't Make Hurting Me a Habit".

**WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance** · 02-16-2023, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by motony

sounds like Kat & Ann with the Andantes esp. on the 1st "Don't Make Hurting Me a Habit".

James Dean and William Weatherspoon, along with Ivy Jo Hunter were VERY good about trying to use the actual group members on the majority of their records. The blend is so good on this one [[both versions) it's hard to tell at times, but I do believe Kat & Ann are on both version, singing the unison lines with the Andantes rounding things out with their harmony parts.

**WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance** · 02-16-2023, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary

I love The Marvelettes' "Don't Make Hurting Me A Habit". I fail to see any "cuteness" about it. To my ears, it's a beautiful, mature love song -- typical of Dean & Weatherspoon's knack for writing and producing heart-warming love ballsds, i.e., "What Becomes Of The Brokenhearted." Wanda's lead vocal shines, and The Andantes' back-up vocals are gorgeous. Among The Marvelettes' finest!

Also, The Marv's final 4 albums were top-notch Motown -- especially 1967's self-titled "Pink" album, 1968's "Sophisticated Soul" [[that title still turns me on!), and 1969's "In Full Bloom". I would have loved 1970's "Return Of..." more had the songs been new compositions instead of cover versions of older Motown war-horses.

For me, "Don't Make Hurting Me A Habit" was one of the songs I repeated often when I first got this album. I liked its crisp sound, the sophisticated [[soulful) musical arrangement and that it had some depth of emotion to it that allowed Wanda to demonstrate why she was one of Motown's must hidden treasures. This was before I knew a lot about what songs had been singles and such, but I recall thinking it "must have been a single," but it wasn't. Still, I think it would have had as much of a chance at a respectable chart showing as "Here I Am Baby." Something about "Here I Am"- it's funky, gutsy, certainly soulful, but I just could never embrace it. Actually, I wish Motown had gone with "Don't Make Hurting Me A Habit" or even "You're The One For Me Bobby" as a single.

I think I'm a bit too invested in the 60s Motown Sound because I never have really loved "Return Of The Marvelettes." It's actually a very good album, but sometimes, the musical arrangements are so outsized that they end up swamping the songs and vocals. I also didn't like that the songs were in keys that required Wanda to sing in her falsetto. I couldn't help but constantly compare and contrast this album with "The Pink Album" where everything was arranged to showcase Wanda's voice at its best [[and Gladys too.) Then you hear an unreleased song like "Caught You Puttin' The Game On Love" and you think why on earth didn't they do an album with a lot more material like that? On that song, you could tell Wanda was slaying everything left and right! I love Smokey and that he wanted to do a solo album with Wanda, but "Return Of..." is one of those LPs where there are great moments - "I'll Be In Trouble" [[SING IT WANDA!), "Marionette" [[even with her falsetto), and her cover of "Someday We'll Be Together" where Wanda sings this thing as if Diana Ross had never ever existed- great moments but it's not an album I play often. I also agree with you, it would have benefitted from more originals and not so many covers all over the place.

**danman869** · 02-16-2023, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance

James Dean and William Weatherspoon, along with Ivy Jo Hunter were VERY good about trying to use the actual group members on the majority of their records. The blend is so good on this one [[both versions) it's hard to tell at times, but I do believe Kat & Ann are on both version, singing the unison lines with the Andantes rounding things out with their harmony parts.

Well, here's the credits on "Version 1":
Produced by William Weatherspoon and James Dean. Version 1: Track recorded April 7, 1967; lead vocal April 12, 1967; background voices April 14, 1967; strings May 2, 1967.

Here's the credits on "Version 2" [[released version):
Produced by William Weatherspoon and James Dean. Version 2: Track recorded May 26, 1967; lead vocal June 22, 1967; background vocals June 23, 1967.

I thought Gladys was still performing/recording with the group through the summer or early fall of 1967? In any case, it seems that if anyone was blending with The Andantes on these two versions, it was likely Gladys and Kat.

**Philles/Motown Gary** · 02-16-2023, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance

For me, "Don't Make Hurting Me A Habit" was one of the songs I repeated often when I first got this album. I liked its crisp sound, the sophisticated [[soulful) musical arrangement and that it had some depth of emotion to it that allowed Wanda to demonstrate why she was one of Motown's must hidden treasures. This was before I knew a lot about what songs had been singles and such, but I recall thinking it "must have been a single," but it wasn't. Still, I think it would have had as much of a chance at a respectable chart showing as "Here I Am Baby." Something about "Here I Am"- it's funky, gutsy, certainly soulful, but I just could never embrace it. Actually, I wish Motown had gone with "Don't Make Hurting Me A Habit" or even "You're The One For Me Bobby" as a single.

I think I'm a bit too invested in the 60s Motown Sound because I never have really loved "Return Of The Marvelettes." It's actually a very good album, but sometimes, the musical arrangements are so outsized that they end up swamping the songs and vocals. I also didn't like that the songs were in keys that required Wanda to sing in her falsetto. I couldn't help but constantly compare and contrast this album with "The Pink Album" where everything was arranged to showcase Wanda's voice at its best [[and Gladys too.) Then you hear an unreleased song like "Caught You Puttin' The Game On Love" and you think why on earth didn't they do an album with a lot more material like that? On that song, you could tell Wanda was slaying everything left and right! I love Smokey and that he wanted to do a solo album with Wanda, but "Return Of..." is one of those LPs where there are great moments - "I'll Be In Trouble" [[SING IT WANDA!), "Marionette" [[even with her falsetto), and her cover of "Someday We'll Be Together" where Wanda sings this thing as if Diana Ross had never ever existed- great moments but it's not an album I play often. I also agree with you, it would have benefitted from more originals and not so many covers all over the place.

Nearly all good points, Waiting. Just a couple corrections --"Don't Make Hurting Me..." was indeed released on a 45, albeit as a B-side to "I'm Gonna Hold On Long As I Can". The biggest and most important correction would be -- There's no such thing as being "too invested in the '60s Motown Sound"! [[I sentence you to a thousand lashes with a wet noodle for making such a false claim!!! Ha!)

I also have to agree with you regarding Wanda's voice. I love her natural lead vocals, but I can't stand her falsetto. Have you ever heard the tail end of The Marvelettes' live version of "Locking Up My Heart? Check it out at least once if you haven't already.

As long as we're discussing beautiful love ballads by The Marvelettes, I have to vote for three tracks from "In Full Bloom". The first is "That's How Heartaches Are Made". Released as a single, it should have been a huge hit. It got airplay where I lived, but apparently not enough sales to warrant hit status. Such a shame! The second beautiful ballad also from "In Full Bloom" is "Now Is The Time For Love." And the third ballad from the same album is "Seeing Is Believing". If only Wanda hadn't tainted the latter with falsetto, the track would have been perfect. I can't leave out the fact that The Andantes shine on all three "In Full Bloom" masterpieces.

**WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance** · 02-17-2023, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by danman869

I thought Gladys was still performing/recording with the group through the summer or early fall of 1967? In any case, it seems that if anyone was blending with The Andantes on these two versions, it was likely Gladys and Kat.

You're probably right about that. I always forget the timeline of when Gladys left the group...

**WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance** · 02-17-2023, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary

The biggest and most important correction would be -- There's no such thing as being "too invested in the '60s Motown Sound"! [[I sentence you to a thousand lashes with a wet noodle for making such a false claim!!! Ha!)

I humbly accept my punishment - I stand rebuked and chastened!

Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary

Have you ever heard the tail end of The Marvelettes' live version of "Locking Up My Heart? Check it out at least once if you haven't already.

Are you kiddin'? This is a lifelong Marvelettes fan you're talking to, Sir [said with all the melodrama of a million scene-chewing actors] so yes I've heard this. And yes, as much as it pains me to say this, it pains me nearly more to listen to that. Still, I've read that Wanda would bring down the house on that song and get the audience really into it, so I'm thinking it's one of those things where the phrase "you had to be there" SUPER, SUPER applies!

Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary

As long as we're discussing beautiful love ballads by The Marvelettes, I have to vote for three tracks from "In Full Bloom". The first is "That's How Heartaches Are Made". Released as a single, it should have been a huge hit. It got airplay where I lived, but apparently not enough sales to warrant hit status. Such a shame!

The Lord has to give me strength when I listen to that song. It's painfully, achingly beautiful. Stunningly perfect. Producer Clay McMurray did and excellent job here. You can tell he wanted perfection and he reined in Wanda's tendency to "get happy" by keeping her strictly on the melody line. Wade Marcus furnished this with a supremely gorgeous arrangement that didn't get in its own way. I wish Clay had done more with Wanda.

The song got raves in a Billboard review [I think it was Billboard, or was it Cash Box? I'll have to check, I bought it on ebay a long time ago.] And I seem to recall reading somewhere that it rated pretty high on Dick Clark's American Bandstand show. This really was Wanda's shining achievement and I have to believe her personal issues may have killed any serious promotion Motown would have done for the record. Or, it may also just be that the Marvelettes' time was drawing to a close. Many of the girl groups that started before, during and after the Marvelettes came on the scene had started struggling for hits by around 1966. The music was changing, newer, fresher sounds had pretty much obliterated the careers of the Dixie Cups, Shangri-Las, Orlons, Exciters, Ronettes, Shirelles and Chiffons. So Motown really did pull miracles keeping the Marvelettes on the charts as long as they did.

And I definitely agree with you about those songs of "In Full Bloom." In fact, I'd swear you had the uncanny knack of reading my mind because those are my favorites along with "At Last I See Love As It Really Is."

**westgrandboulevard** · 02-17-2023, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by danman869

I thought Gladys was still performing/recording with the group through the summer or early fall of 1967? In any case, it seems that if anyone was blending with The Andantes on these two versions, it was likely Gladys and Kat.

Agreed..and most likely Gladys, Kat and Wanda were all on backgrounds, as it was with many or most of their other recordings, while the lead vocals were on a separate track.

At, or around the time that Gladys left, it seems that only The Andantes were then used for background vocals, with either Wanda or Ann on lead vocals.

**Spreadinglove21** · 02-17-2023, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by westgrandboulevard

Agreed..and most likely Gladys, Kat and Wanda were all on backgrounds, as it was with many or most of their other recordings, while the lead vocals were on a separate track.

At, or around the time that Gladys left, it seems that only The Andantes were then used for background vocals, with either Wanda or Ann on lead vocals.

What about Uptown? Is that Kat and Gladys, or Kat and Ann on backgrounds?

**Spreadinglove21** · 02-17-2023, 09:15 AM

Wanda's falsetto on the early recordings are hard to bear, but as she gained more seasoning as a vocalist I thought she deployed her falsetto quite well on songs like Destination Anywhere and Marionette.

Gladys use of Falsetto on Little Girl Blue was excellent.

**westgrandboulevard** · 02-17-2023, 09:28 AM

Spreadinglove21....

According to DFTMC, 'Uptown' was 'completed' on 22nd November 1968.

Because of the title, there is a possibility that 'completed' might perhaps mean strings being dubbed on to a basic cover version track which had been in the can for years?

If so, then voices most likely to include Gladys, not Ann [despite what Wikipedia says... smile]. It would mean at least two original Marvelettes were technically represented on at least one track, when it was repeated on the 'Return' album.

I do think I hear Gladys in the background.

But if all those voices were actually recorded in 1968, then it is possible Ann was included......even if perhaps unlikely....

**arr&bee** · 02-17-2023, 11:41 AM

And since we're on the subject of my favorite girl group, how bout[i can't turn around]from the[pink album] wanda killin it again..one of the sexiest voices ever!!!

**kenneth** · 02-17-2023, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by arr&bee

And since we're on the subject of my favorite girl group, how bout[i can't turn around]from the[pink album] wanda killin it again..one of the sexiest voices ever!!!

I very much agree. Wanda had the ability to not just sing, but "act out" her songs. She's very much in character on "I Can't Turn Around," as someone who knows she's destined for heartbreak but can't let go. She conveys this uncanny "acting" ability on many other songs such as "The Stranger," "That's How Heartaches Are Made," "Seeing is Believing," "Destination: Anywhere," and so many others.

I think Diana Ross had this quality as well. I don't hear it in Martha Reeves' recordings, for the most part, but on some of her more subdued performances such as "No More Tearstained Makeup" [[also superbly sung by Wanda), she does shine portraying the character of the song.

It's great to see so many Marvelettes fans!

**arr&bee** · 02-17-2023, 12:55 PM

I think that smokey put his best lyrics for the ladies in their[1966] gem [you're the one- a closet full of gladrags all tucked in a pad that's swank].

**danman869** · 02-17-2023, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by westgrandboulevard

Spreadinglove21....

According to DFTMC, 'Uptown' was 'completed' on 22nd November 1968.

Because of the title, there is a possibility that 'completed' might perhaps mean strings being dubbed on to a basic cover version track which had been in the can for years?

If so, then voices most likely to include Gladys, not Ann [despite what Wikipedia says... smile]. It would mean at least two original Marvelettes were technically represented on at least one track, when it was repeated on the 'Return' album.

I do think I hear Gladys in the background.

But if all those voices were actually recorded in 1968, then it is possible Ann was included......even if perhaps unlikely....

On "Uptown," I always thought I heard Marvelette voices in the background and not necessarily [only] the polished harmonies of The Andantes. According to the FOREVER boxed set, here are the recording dates for "Uptown":

Produced by William Weatherspoon and James Dean. Track recorded May 10, 1968, assigned to The Supremes; strings added at Golden World August 28, 1968; reassigned to The Marvelettes and lead vocal recorded October 30, 1968; background voices recorded November 22, 1968.

Seems as though the track was still intended to be recorded by DRATS up until late October when it was given to the Marvelettes for Wanda to record and then background voices [[usually the code word from Universal that it was NOT the group members singing) were added 3 weeks later.

**144man** · 02-17-2023, 06:40 PM

"Locking Up My Heart" was the first record I bought when I at last had my own record-player, and I loved Wanda's falsetto on it.

If "Marionette" from The Return of... had been released a couple of years earlier, it would have been a big hit. At the time I didn't realise it wasn't an original song.

**kenneth** · 02-17-2023, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by 144man

"Locking Up My Heart" was the first record I bought when I at last had my own record-player, and I loved Wanda's falsetto on it.

If "Marionette" from The Return of... had been released a couple of years earlier, it would have been a big hit. At the time I didn't realise it wasn't an original song.

Kim Weston had recorded it several years earlier but it had never been released. It finally was included on her UK Anthology, I believe. So "Return" was the first time anyone really heard "Marionette."

**Motown Eddie** · 02-19-2023, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by arr&bee

And since we're on the subject of my favorite girl group, how bout[i can't turn around]from the[pink album] wanda killin it again..one of the sexiest voices ever!!!

YES; I love "I Can't Turn Around" from The Marvelettes' Classic "Pink Album". Great vocal from Wanda Rogers and a complex lyric about a woman who loves someone who doesn't quite love her. Another of my favorites from the same LP is "I Know Better".

**kenneth** · 02-19-2023, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Motown Eddie

YES; I love "I Can't Turn Around" from The Marvelettes' Classic "Pink Album". Great vocal from Wanda Rogers and a complex lyric about a woman who loves someone who doesn't quite love her. Another of my favorites from the same LP is "I Know Better".

Gladys’ vocal on “I Know Better” is so much more evocative of the lyric than the version by Gladys Knight, who sang it well but without the delicious irony.

Two other great songs were “The Day You Take One, You Have to Take the Other,” which was almost a Blues song, and another great B-side which could be the aftermath to “I Can’t Turn Around” - “No Time for Tears” would have fit in great on the pink album as well. Both great performances by Wanda.

**arr&bee** · 02-19-2023, 05:02 PM

Talk about irony...remember their too cool rendition of the supremes[a breahtaking guy] just listen to the beat and tell me that if released during the[disco era]this one wouldn't have been a hit for our girls,unfortunately for the marvelettes, they were long gone by that time...a missed opportunity?? We'll never know!

**WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance** · 02-20-2023, 02:55 AM

Originally Posted by kenneth

Gladys’ vocal on “I Know Better” is so much more evocative of the lyric than the version by Gladys Knight, who sang it well but without the delicious irony.

I'm so glad to read your opinion on this one. I remember being just blown away by Gladys Horton's very nuanced and carefully modulated performance on this. I kept thinking, Gladys had really become a great interpreter as much as a great singer. I remember an reviewer once saying some of the performances on "The Pink Album" were close to jazz material. When I heard Gladys Knights' performance some years later, I was surprised because as exceptional a singer as Gladys Knight was, well, you said it best: she "sang it well but without the delicious irony." Gladys Knight sang it while Gladys Horton sounded as if she had lived it.

Originally Posted by kenneth

Two other great songs were “The Day You Take One, You Have to Take the Other,” which was almost a Blues song, and another great B-side which could be the aftermath to “I Can’t Turn Around” - “No Time for Tears” would have fit in great on the pink album as well. Both great performances by Wanda.

Both Wanda and Gladys reveled themselves to be much more expressive artists than I think anyone would have imagined at the start of their careers. You made the excellent point that Wanda was as much an actress as she was a singer. I've always marveled at how adept she was at being a Soul Singer on one song, a coquettish kitten on another song and a Pop specialist on others. "The Stranger" would be the most startling performance she's ever done except that she pulls off the role of "stalker" very well in "I'll Keep Holding On" as well. At least Berry Gordy once acknowledged that Wanda was a great actress with a compliment saying as much- I think it was on an appearance on that local dance show, "Teen Town." I also agree that Wanda did this acting with more aplomb than Martha, which isn't a put down. I think Martha was like Aretha and Gladys Knight who had powerful voices, but could sometimes find it hard to rein it in or dial it down enough to caress a song with subtlety when needed.

**westgrandboulevard** · 02-20-2023, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance

At least Berry Gordy once acknowledged that Wanda was a great actress with a compliment saying as much- I think it was on an appearance on that local dance show, "Teen Town." I also agree that Wanda did this acting with more aplomb than Martha, which isn't a put down. I think Martha was like Aretha and Gladys Knight who had powerful voices, but could sometimes find it hard to rein it in or dial it down enough to caress a song with subtlety when needed.

I have always felt that Wanda was a stylist in the entertainment world, more than technically being a great singer.

Particularly effective in performance. Wanda projected the lyrics right out there to the back row. Who else had eyebrows which danced like hers?!

There was one unique and very special gift that very few of the others possessed, and which drew people towards her.

Wanda had PERSONALITY!

**WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance** · 02-20-2023, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by westgrandboulevard

I have always felt that Wanda was a stylist in the entertainment world, more than technically being a great singer.

Particularly effective in performance. Wanda projected the lyrics right out there to the back row. Who else had eyebrows which danced like hers?!

There was one unique and very special gift that very few of the others possessed, and which drew people towards her.

Wanda had PERSONALITY!

Amen, Amen, Amen and AMEN to all four of your points. I hadn't thought about it until you mentioned those dancing eyebrows of hers!

"Stylist" That's the word a music critic used once in praise of a singer - I can't even remember who it was but I liked that. Sometimes not everyone has a great voice but they CAN be very gifted stylists. In many aspects, I'd rather listen to a stylist who can convey a particular song's feeling rather than a Big Voice that steamrollers over everything in sight.

**westgrandboulevard** · 02-20-2023, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance

In many aspects, I'd rather listen to a stylist who can convey a particular song's feeling rather than a Big Voice that steamrollers over everything in sight.

And Amen from me on that particular point!

Having a certain style means being effective in getting the message across, in your own individual way.

Whatever happened to the days when entertainers/singers/stylists [call them what you will] drew us into their world of song....

Now it does seem as if everyone is power singing......pushing you back in your seat.

Someone like Peggy Lee starting out might not stand a chance.

And just keeping it on topic, can't you just hear Wanda singing 'Fever' with a similar feel production to 'Don't Mess With Bill', or 'The Hunter Get Captured By The Game'....

**kenneth** · 02-20-2023, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance

You made the excellent point that Wanda was as much an actress as she was a singer. I've always marveled at how adept she was at being a Soul Singer on one song, a coquettish kitten on another song and a Pop specialist on others. "The Stranger" would be the most startling performance she's ever done except that she pulls off the role of "stalker" very well in "I'll Keep Holding On" as well. At least Berry Gordy once acknowledged that Wanda was a great actress with a compliment saying as much- I think it was on an appearance on that local dance show, "Teen Town." I also agree that Wanda did this acting with more aplomb than Martha, which isn't a put down. I think Martha was like Aretha and Gladys Knight who had powerful voices, but could sometimes find it hard to rein it in or dial it down enough to caress a song with subtlety when needed.

I forgot about "I'll Keep Holding On!" Definitely sung as if by a stalker!

It made me think of pairing different songs as an A- and a B-side, kind of like putting together two films which would make a great double feature. Your comment inspired me to imagine "Nowhere to Run" b/w "I'll Keep Holding On," thereby giving both sides [[no pun intended) of the story! In "Run," I always loved the lyric "When I look in the mirror to comb my hair, I see your face just smiling there." Such a great line! The other great thing about "Run" is you're not sure if the singer is actually being stalked, or just can't get the crumb out of her head...makes the ambiguity of the lyrics even more powerful.

**kenneth** · 02-20-2023, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by westgrandboulevard

And just keeping it on topic, can't you just hear Wanda singing 'Fever' with a similar feel production to 'Don't Mess With Bill', or 'The Hunter Get Captured By The Game'....

Yes, yes, yes...what I wouldn't give to hear Wanda sing "Fever." That song would suit her to a T. I always say we should be grateful that Motown issued so many albums on its girl groups, but I'll quickly become depressed if I think about all the material that Wanda could have sung the hell out of, if given the chance. Kudos to you for thinking of this one. It's such a great idea that I should have thought of it!

**westgrandboulevard** · 02-20-2023, 01:27 PM

I always felt that one problem The Marvelettes had, was that not enough people, nationally and internationally, actually SAW them.

The group had great records, which were being released by a record company that transcended 'hot'. And their records had the potential to sell more, if record buyers would have had a stronger image of the group in their minds.

I never saw them live in person, but my understanding is that, of the Motown girl groups, The Marvelettes had a dynamic stage act. While you could hear them on the radio, they also needed to be seen to be believed, and fully appreciated.

And I think it is fair to say that their unique selling point, certainly on stage, was Wanda. She was a standout performer, in her own way, but I think she did need the group around her, to showcase her appeal. I always felt she had something akin to Brenda Lee, with her small stature and sassy personality on stage.

As for "I'll Keep Holding On"...was it ever performed on US television? It certainly was, here in the UK....

**motony** · 02-20-2023, 03:03 PM

Gladys was actually the one that had the most to do with their LIVE stage act. I think they really suffered after she left.I was lucky enuff to see them LIVE on the Otis Redding Tour in late 1966 , Gladys, Wanda & Kat & they were great, they were more "glam" then the early years.Artist Development Dept, did not start until late 1964, before that the acts really did alot themselves for the LIVE appearances.

**westgrandboulevard** · 02-20-2023, 03:26 PM

I can well agree with that. I believe Gladys indeed did create the choreography for the group.

Apart from Wanda's on-stage personality, I would also say Gladys in many ways technically had the greater singing range.

Without Gladys, and 'Please Mr Postman' there wouldn't have been a group for Wanda then to become sole lead voice.

Which now leads me to wonder....I would assume 'Please Mr. Postman' is the most streamed Marvelettes title to date, but could perhaps be wrong.....

**arr&bee** · 02-25-2023, 02:15 PM

Hey west, i was lucky enough to see them back in the day, and they were great onstage.

**westgrandboulevard** · 02-25-2023, 03:17 PM

I know, Arr&bee, I know....

You have said it several times.

So make sure you just keep saying it.....and continue to make some of us really jealous.

**arr&bee** · 02-26-2023, 12:39 PM

I know it's been discussed, but can someone tell me again why[gladys] left the group?

**reese** · 02-26-2023, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by arr&bee

I know it's been discussed, but can someone tell me again why[gladys] left the group?

Gladys was pregnant with her first child and wanted to devote herself to her family. Having been oprhaned herself, she was determined to be a great mother.

**arr&bee** · 02-26-2023, 02:34 PM

Ok, thanks again reese...you da man!!

**floyjoy678** · 02-27-2023, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by reese

Gladys was pregnant with her first child and wanted to devote herself to her family. Having been oprhaned herself, she was determined to be a great mother.

Didn't Gordy also have an issue with Gladys appearing on stage pregnant? I thought I read that on here recently.

**kenneth** · 02-27-2023, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by floyjoy678

Didn't Gordy also have an issue with Gladys appearing on stage pregnant? I thought I read that on here recently.

That would have been an issue for nearly every pregnant performer back then, so it's likely true about Gladys. But it usually wouldn't force a performer to leave a group. Like Wanda, who had two or three children while a member, Gladys could have taken time off to give birth and then return to the Marvelettes.

Even nowadays, I'm not sure how much that has changed. I'm speculating, but my guess is that many ladies perform even in a rather advanced state of pregnancy but take great pains to hide it by way of their on stage dress. Does anyone know?

**reese** · 02-27-2023, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by floyjoy678

Didn't Gordy also have an issue with Gladys appearing on stage pregnant? I thought I read that on here recently.

Gladys wrote about this in her book. There was some outfit that Berry requested, then demanded that they not wear because her pregnancy was obvious. The group had recently experienced theft of their costumes so they didn't have a lot on hand to wear so they went against him. That said, Gladys had already planned to leave the group and this happened during her last engagement.

**reese** · 02-27-2023, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by kenneth

That would have been an issue for nearly every pregnant performer back then, so it's likely true about Gladys. But it usually wouldn't force a performer to leave a group. Like Wanda, who had two or three children while a member, Gladys could have taken time off to give birth and then return to the Marvelettes.

Even nowadays, I'm not sure how much that has changed. I'm speculating, but my guess is that many ladies perform even in a rather advanced state of pregnancy but take great pains to hide it by way of their on stage dress. Does anyone know?

I guess it depends on the artist. Gladys Knight and Tina Turner have both written about going on stage not long after giving birth or having miscarriages but they had no choice, as they needed the money.

**danman869** · 02-27-2023, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by kenneth

That would have been an issue for nearly every pregnant performer back then, so it's likely true about Gladys. But it usually wouldn't force a performer to leave a group. Like Wanda, who had two or three children while a member, Gladys could have taken time off to give birth and then return to the Marvelettes.

Even nowadays, I'm not sure how much that has changed. I'm speculating, but my guess is that many ladies perform even in a rather advanced state of pregnancy but take great pains to hide it by way of their on stage dress. Does anyone know?

I know what you're saying and perhaps that idea of Gladys Horton returning to the group could have possibly been explored, but I believe her first child was born with special needs. That alone would have meant Gladys would have had to make a hard choice. I suspect that if she had planned to return to the Marvelettes after her child's birth, the decision was made when it was discovered her son had special needs.