Ross 78 - what should they have done instead

[sup_fan]

most of us recognize this as one of the weaker albums in her career. yet it contains a couple of songs that are remarkable - You Were the One and Never Say I Don't Love You.

but the record is all over the place - disco [[some decent, some not), big-time ballads, remixes of old tunes.

seems like Greg Wright [[producer of YWTO and NSIDLY) only did a few tracks with her, not a whole album. should he have just done it all? he also did Share Some Love on the To Love Again EE

was disco the right genre? should she have gone more pop?

in 1978 you of course had tons of disco with Sat Night Fever still hitting the charts plus other artists getting in on that. you had Grease being huge. but some rock and pop was still making the charts - Steely Dan with Peg and Deacon Blues, meatloaf, Because the night, hot blooded, Queen. and funk with parliament, rufus.

would a pop album like BIM done better in 78? or a follow up album with Perry?

[marybrewster]

Side 2 is a complete afterthought.

Nothing on either side sounds like a single, or a hit to me. What was Diana doing in 1978 that she couldn't record new music? Maybe with her then-recent divorce to Bob, she just wasn't in a place emotionally to record, especially love songs?

[sup_fan]

i think there were quite a few songs that could have been on side 2 but weren't included. many of the disco tracks on Disc 2 for the diana 80 EE. some of the ballads on To Love Agin EE. there were certainly enough tracks to do 8 or 9 all-new songs.

[reese]

Side 2 is a complete afterthought.

Nothing on either side sounds like a single, or a hit to me. What was Diana doing in 1978 that she couldn't record new music? Maybe with her then-recent divorce to Bob, she just wasn't in a place emotionally to record, especially love songs?

I believe Diana recorded BABY IT'S ME and ROSS simultaneously because she would be busy filming THE WIZ. That is understandable but for Motown to pull out old sides like REACH OUT, SORRY DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT, and TOGETHER for the latter is inexcusable, especially with so many unreleased tracks in the can.

During 1978, she was doing some final dates for her AN EVENING WITH... presentation while getting ready her new show directed by David Winters.

[sup_fan]

i think You Were The One could have been a single. it was disco but not too hardcore. still radio friendly. it think it would have done well but i don't think it was a lost #1.

she had done something so interesting and hot with Love Hangover. you had Donna Sommer continually coming up with new things and keeping it fresh. but Diana just wasn't following up with anything truly compelling or really inline with the times. the whole BIM set is very nice and today holds up very well. but at the time it was just a bit to pedestrian IMO.

[Ollie9]

I think they should have scrapped the album and released a double A side single of “You Were The One”/“Home”[[Motown version).

[daviddh]

i would have went with Greg Wright as whole producer.
i like his work with Diana .

the problem is really side 2 ,but I must admit this new edit -mix of Reach Out is the best .....but i personally would have issued it as a b side or on a Hits album, not here.
to rehash old songs as such was ridiculous. aka Together,come on , an outtake from 1974?
there are also to many vaulted album cuts that were far better than what they used...
i would have released You Were The One first then Never Say I Dont Love You.
the album has grown on me ,but in my playlist i combined To Love Again and Ross 78.
not sure if we will ever get an expanded edition. was hoping. it was the last of the studio albums to get the deluxe treatment but now? almost given up hope.
they should have also promoted BIM far better, great album. more missed gems

[captainjames]

I would have released "You Were The One" that song with Jones in the background was incredible. I am not sure what else she recorded with them but this was a win.

[marybrewster]

The thing that worked for Donna is she had dedicated writers and producers that she built a rapport and relationship with. Working with Giorgio and Pete was brilliance.

[RanRan79]

The thing that worked for Donna is she had dedicated writers and producers that she built a rapport and relationship with. Working with Giorgio and Pete was brilliance.

While I always love a good discussion about the music, I was intending to skip this one because Diana and I are on the outs. Lol

However, MaryB makes an excellent point. I think that's one of the reasons why Diana's 70s discography is so all over the place, both the musical direction and the chart positions. The most prolific hit making streak in Diana's career came as a Supreme, from 1964-1967, and it was all in collaboration with HDH. The DRATS period is marked by spotty charting, and that's when HDH had left and the group was being banded about to whomever would take them on, similar to what it was like in the pre- "Where Did Our Love Go" days.

While Diana started strong with Ashford and Simpson and the debut album, the next album was in someone else's hands. Then it was back to A&S, then Gil, then Masser, and a revolving door of producers. I think what was missing from Diana's career in the 70s was an HDH type producer relationship with her. She needed someone's focus, someone who could tap into all that she had to offer as an artist and stay compelling, relevant, and innovative.

I might be the odd man out here, but as much as I dig Masser's productions with Diana, I don't think he was the one. Bring him in for the odd song here and there- I mean who can argue against "Touch Me In the Morning"?- but she needed something different. I really think A&S had an excellent ability to be that HDH for Diana, had they continued to work with her throughout the decade. Surrender suffered from horrible mismanagement and bad timing. I think The Boss was eclipsed by the great year Donna Summer was having. That being said, A&S working with Diana album after album would get my vote, although there are a couple other contenders.

[TNSUN]

Love "You Were The One". Definite underground club disco hit!

[sup_fan]

but even great partnerships like Sups and HDH need to evolve or change. Look at Forever Came Today. we don't know all of the details - was this actually completed by HDH and this is what they intended for the song? were they intending it for a single? what about the other content they did on Reflections? In and Out is hardly a masterpiece. Reflections the single was a stunner but what was going to come next? did they have more magic up their sleeves but just hadn't brought to the table cuz they were planning on splitting? or was the magic dissipating?

do agree that Diana in the 70s [[and in the 80s) was all over the place. there was definitely a lack of real direction or strategic management.

i wonder what Masser could have done to craft more update and pop songs, as opposed to mostly mega ballads? could he really pull out a dance track for diana?

Richard Perry brought out an amazing performance in her but his vision for the songs and song selection wasn't as current as what other artists were doing

[BayouMotownMan]

The Ross lp was so obviously a contract release...just something to put out on Diana so the public would know she was still around. She was doing The Wiz and not so interested in recording at the time.

I have always wondered why Motown lured HDH back into the company and only got a couple recordings out of them with Ross, who was their most successful singer. The Richard Perry lp was great but the sales were less than dynamic despite charting well.

Perhaps before starting the Wiz it would have been a good time to re-unite HDH with Ross for a 1978 lp release.

I will also admit I was hoping that Ross would reunite with HDH in the past ten or more years if for no other reason that to give us a download or two of their current sound. With Lamont gone that will never be possible.

[sup_fan]

The Ross lp was so obviously a contract release...just something to put out on Diana so the public would know she was still around. She was doing The Wiz and not so interested in recording at the time.

I have always wondered why Motown lured HDH back into the company and only got a couple recordings out of them with Ross, who was their most successful singer. The Richard Perry lp was great but the sales were less than dynamic despite charting well.

Perhaps before starting the Wiz it would have been a good time to re-unite HDH with Ross for a 1978 lp release.

I will also admit I was hoping that Ross would reunite with HDH in the past ten or more years if for no other reason that to give us a download or two of their current sound. With Lamont gone that will never be possible.

the handful of tracks they did with her were IMO really substandard. they're nowhere near as compelling or interesting of songs as what HDH had done with the Scherrie-led supremes. compare the quality of the MS&S album and what they canned on Diana!

[reese]

the handful of tracks they did with her were IMO really substandard. they're nowhere near as compelling or interesting of songs as what HDH had done with the Scherrie-led supremes. compare the quality of the MS&S album and what they canned on Diana!

I really like the tracks FIRE DON'T BURN and WE CAN NEVER LIGHT THAT OLD FLAME AGAIN. They are reminiscent of some of the tracks H&H did with the Jackson 5 before they left the label. But IMO, by the time Diana put her vocals on in 1977, they already sounded dated.

[sup_fan]

I really like the tracks FIRE DON'T BURN and WE CAN NEVER LIGHT THAT OLD FLAME AGAIN. They are reminiscent of some of the tracks H&H did with the Jackson 5 before they left the label. But IMO, by the time Diana put her vocals on in 1977, they already sounded dated.

hmmm maybe they could have done an album called "Heat" with diana. sort of like Barbra's Wet album.

[RanRan79]

but even great partnerships like Sups and HDH need to evolve or change. Look at Forever Came Today. we don't know all of the details - was this actually completed by HDH and this is what they intended for the song? were they intending it for a single? what about the other content they did on Reflections? In and Out is hardly a masterpiece. Reflections the single was a stunner but what was going to come next? did they have more magic up their sleeves but just hadn't brought to the table cuz they were planning on splitting? or was the magic dissipating?

do agree that Diana in the 70s [[and in the 80s) was all over the place. there was definitely a lack of real direction or strategic management.

i wonder what Masser could have done to craft more update and pop songs, as opposed to mostly mega ballads? could he really pull out a dance track for diana?

Richard Perry brought out an amazing performance in her but his vision for the songs and song selection wasn't as current as what other artists were doing

Sure, partnerships can evolve. The problem is Diana didn't have a partnership to evolve with. Lol Now, sometimes partnerships can run their course. That was my opinion about the Supremes reuniting with Frank Wilson. But the more I think about it, the more I think that maybe the Supremes needed one more Frank album to see if the magic was still there. So I amend my initial opinion in whatever thread that we discussed it recently.

[sup_fan]

i haven't decided if the Sups should have stuck with Frank or not. i think the funkier sound he developed with Eddie might have been a good and fresh approach with the Sups. Tears Left Over is a bit more aggressive than some of their previous work. so maybe that's a hint of what could have come? his rendition of Love Train that he did later with the girls is ok but nothing special.

i still don't really know why the album Touch failed so badly. i guess part of why NW bombed could be tied to the duets and too much on the market. but even that can't totally account for while it sold so poorly.

[sup_fan]

with Ross 78, i know people have said that Ross was busy in the studio prior to The Wiz preparing music that can be used while she's tied up with the movie. but seems the quality of the music was just lacking. she might have recorded a lot but nothing was especially interesting or exciting. you'd think they would have worked on getting better material

[BayouMotownMan]

i haven't decided if the Sups should have stuck with Frank or not. i think the funkier sound he developed with Eddie might have been a good and fresh approach with the Sups. Tears Left Over is a bit more aggressive than some of their previous work. so maybe that's a hint of what could have come? his rendition of Love Train that he did later with the girls is ok but nothing special.

i still don't really know why the album Touch failed so badly. i guess part of why NW bombed could be tied to the duets and too much on the market. but even that can't totally account for while it sold so poorly.

Good insight, and I have always maintained Tears Left Over is a hit. The copy released is still raw and it needed additional sweetening but that was it. One of Jean's best vocals.

Many reasons for the dismal showing of the Touch lp. And you are right, the duet recordings definitely competed with and took some sales away.

Lack of promotion also played into it Nathan Jones got full page ads upon its release but the only ads I saw in the trades on Touch was when Motown took out full pages to promote all their newest releases. When Diana Ross had a new lp however, it alone got a full page.

Also, the Supremes had attained greater success than Diana going into mid 1971. The group was selling out while Gordy had to bribe people to attend Diana's opening in Vegas. The Supremes were still staples on American television while Diana neglected these same shows and did her own ABC solo special early in 1971 to lackluster ratings. It was obvious she was in trouble and Gordy wasn't having it. The Supremes had to be brought down. It was felt, and likely rightfully so, that their new popularity with Jean Terrell was having a negative effect on Ross.

Please consider:

Reach Out I'll Be There and Nathan Jones were released a few days apart. Reach Out of course got the highest debut because Motown was pushing it. But within a few weeks Nathan Jones was out-performing Reach Out, resulting in Reach Out stalling well outside the Top 20 in all the trade magazines while Nathan continued a rapid ascension. Radio programmers favored the new Supremes.

When Reach Out stalled and began to drop off the charts, Motown pulled promotion on Nathan Jones and its complimentary 4 Tops duet Gotta Have Love In Your Heart, also making big strides on the charts in its first three weeks. The result was Nathan stalled outside the Top Ten on Billboard but scraped the lower Top Ten on most other charts while Gotta Have Love stalled outside the Top 40. There was simply no way this could be allowed that The Supremes were outperforming Diana Ross.

Had Gordy been more concerned about the Supremes I am convinced the Touch single would not have happened. It simply was not commercial. Strictly off name value Floy Joy did OK but this began a steady decline in the popularity of the Jean Supremes and they never recovered from it.

When Lady Sings The Blues came out in Oct 1972, the fate of The Jean Terrell Supremes was made. Jean Terrell knew it. By summer 1973 she was gone.

[gman]

I LOVED THIS ALBUM!!!! I am not nuts about Everything is Everything, Last Time I Saw Him... or even Touch Me In The Morning....the only dog here for me is Together...LOVIN' LIVIN' & GIVIN' is in my top 10 all time disco tracks....the synthesizers are like tinkling crystals, the "farting" bass just rips and trips and pushes along nicely, and her scat ad lib part fits in nicely....but only this version, this mix. [[I also love the Supremes "Driving Wheel"...that pounding acoustic piano, the hand percussion, and Scherries great fall behind / catch up vocal...probably my 2 fav Motown disco songs!) I loved the 12" of What You Gave Me...the ballards were beautiful...Never, Sorry, and To Love Again are among my fav DR solo cuts

[sup_fan]

haha - see i like Together. i usually include in various playlists and i'm always surprised how people really seem to dog it lol

now is it in the same caliber at TMITM or It's My Turn? no of course not. but i think it's a solid album filler. had the LTISH album been a full vehicle for Masser, it and Sorry would have worked perfectly here.

[sup_fan]

i jump over to the site with all of the Billboard magazines archived. a few things to add on why Touch lp might have bombed. this is in late June and early July 71

J5 Maybe Tomorrow was a top lp along with Never Can Say Goodbye
Smiling Faces sometimes was released
What's going on was still all over the charts - mercy mercy me was the latest single

Rare Earth was also pushing new releases

[daviddh]

i dont dislike Together but in 1974 , it would have fit LTISH lp but, 4 years later ,no , not to me.
since the Diana sings The Wiz was cancelled , why not include,.. Home, Brand New Day.
were there gems from An Eveing With that would have fit here, a studio version of What I Did For Love?
there were HDH songs recorded but the boys had a falling out with BG and they walked again.
all these gems that have come out over the years such as What R U Doing the Rest of Your Life. absolutely love it. beautiful vocal.
persoanlly a Diana solo Brand New Day would be my bet

[Ollie9]

The album quite rightly received negative reviews at a time when Diana was being slaughtered in the press for her performance in The Wiz. It really was bad timing for such a shoddy set to have been released. What were Motown thinking?.
No wonder Diana seized control with “The Boss”.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

was disco the right genre?

As with ANY genre there are light years between good and bad 'genre'.

'Love Hangover' & 'Loving, Living, Giving' were a fine start but there was a deep chasm of 'wtf was that poor choice?' [[also The Wiz']] until 'The Boss' and 'diana' where she hit some of the highs of her career [[with what was lazily called 'disco']].

[BayouMotownMan]

As with ANY genre there are light years between good and bad 'genre'.

'Love Hangover' & 'Loving, Living, Giving' were a fine start but there was a deep chasm of 'wtf was that poor choice?' [[also The Wiz']] until 'The Boss' and 'diana' where she hit some of the highs of her career [[with what was lazily called 'disco']].

For me the highlight of the lp was the excellent remix of Reach Out I'll Be There. Wonder who came up with the idea to recycle this. Though it was dismissed as a copy of ANMHE, which it is, Ross still gives one of her best vocals and you can hear Ashford and Simpson in the background.

[sup_fan]

For me the highlight of the lp was the excellent remix of Reach Out I'll Be There. Wonder who came up with the idea to recycle this. Though it was dismissed as a copy of ANMHE, which it is, Ross still gives one of her best vocals and you can hear Ashford and Simpson in the background.

has the Ross mix of ROIBT been released on cd? i have the lp but haven't listened to it in years. I enjoy Reach Out but it's not one i listen to often. i should listen to the different versions side by side to pick out the differences

[sup_fan]

what about the cover of ross? although in 2023 we frown on cigarettes, back then it wasn't as problematic. so i don't mind the painting for the cover. but the back was a cop out. to just put a smaller version of the artwork made an already questionable package even cheaper.

[sansradio]

has the Ross mix of ROIBT been released on cd? i have the lp but haven't listened to it in years. I enjoy Reach Out but it's not one i listen to often. i should listen to the different versions side by side to pick out the differences

Yes, there's a Japanese album-sleeve-reproduction CD reissue of the LP from @ 2014.

[reese]

what about the cover of ross? although in 2023 we frown on cigarettes, back then it wasn't as problematic. so i don't mind the painting for the cover. but the back was a cop out. to just put a smaller version of the artwork made an already questionable package even cheaper.

I don't think the artwork on ROSS is bad but I don't find it classic in the sense of that on say, DIANA'S DUETS.

The ROSS artwork is rather simple, not elegant, and yes, was it really necessary to include the same portrait on both the front and back? It does seem to illustrate a rather cheap package. The sad thing is that there are so many photos [[that Diana probably paid for) that could have been used.

After such a classy package with BABY IT'S ME, ROSS does seem second-rate. It is nice that she rebounded with the covers of THE BOSS, diana, etc.

[RanRan79]

I wonder how different things would have been had A&S came in for Ross 78 and recorded the tracks that ended up as The Boss. Had Ross78/The Boss been released a year earlier, I'm not sure Diana would have been totally lost in the shuffle that was Donna Summer. 1979 saw Donna dusting everybody. I still maintain that The Boss lp, song for song, holds up much better than Donna's album that year, but it's hard to beat those singles.

But if focusing on Ross78, I'd keep side 1 the same. On side 2 I would add "Summertime Livin", "Build Me Up", "We Can Never Light That Old Flame", "For Once In My Life" and maybe the vaulted "Baby I Love Your Way", but that might be too light in comparison to the other tracks. I wish Diana had recorded "Fly Little Blackbird" by High Inergy. If the album needed another slower type cut, that would've been perfect.

[Ollie9]

I consider the HDH songs pretty weak with limited appeal. Motown at least got it right with that one.
Perhaps they should have included “Room Enough For Two”, “Wonder Wonder Why” and the 12” remix version of “Ease On Down The Road” to flesh out side 2.

[sup_fan]

I consider the HDH songs pretty weak with limited appeal. Motown at least got it right with that one.
Perhaps they should have included “Room Enough For Two”, “Wonder Wonder Why” and the 12” remix version of “Ease On Down The Road” to flesh out side 2.

that's an interesting idea. maybe Diana's solo version of Ease On Down would have been a good inclusion. i think MCA had the rights to the duet version from the movie. i think the timing though was off. according to the Sings Wiz booklet, Diana did her vocals in late 78, probably after Ross had been released.

still that would have at least been a relevant fit and frankly a better tune that some of the canned ones.

i think a pop version Ross lineup might have worked with:

Together
share some love
harmony
never say i don't love you
old funky rolls [[i'm sure i'll get some hazing on this one but i like song lol)

come together
sorry doesn't always make it right
where did we go wrong
we're always saying goodbye
to love again

[sup_fan]

for a more disco version you could do

You were the one
you build me up
never say i don't love you
what you gave me

lovin livin givin
we can never light that old flame
to love again
for once in my life

[mowsville]

Great lineup for the disco version sup_fan

[Ollie9]

that's an interesting idea. maybe Diana's solo version of Ease On Down would have been a good inclusion. i think MCA had the rights to the duet version from the movie. i think the timing though was off. according to the Sings Wiz booklet, Diana did her vocals in late 78, probably after Ross had been released.

still that would have at least been a relevant fit and frankly a better tune that some of the canned ones.

i think a pop version Ross lineup might have worked with:

Together
share some love
harmony
never say i don't love you
old funky rolls [[i'm sure i'll get some hazing on this one but i like song lol)

come together
sorry doesn't always make it right
where did we go wrong
we're always saying goodbye
to love again

Definitely would pass on “Ole Funkerty Dunkerty Rolls” lol. “Together” also being a bit old hat, even for 78. Discounting Songs From The Wiz album, i was thinking...

You Were The One. [[Lead single)
What You Gave me
Never Say I Don't Love You
Room Enough For Two
Share Some Love

Lovin Livin Givin
You Build Me Up
To Love Again
Ease On Down The Road 12” version

For a more contemporary sounding collection.

[sup_fan]

Definitely would pass on “Ole Funkerty Dunkerty Rolls” lol. “Together” also being a bit old hat, even for 78. Discounting Songs From The Wiz album, i was thinking...

You Were The One. [[Lead single)
What You Gave me
Never Say I Don't Love You
Room Enough For Two
Share Some Love

Lovin Livin Givin
You Build Me Up
To Love Again
Ease On Down The Road 12” version

For a more contemporary sounding collection.

haha i have my blast shields up. no comments or hazing from other fans can penetrate that shield and cause me to lower my appreciation for the funky car lol

i wonder if maybe a disco suite on side 2 for the Wiz might have been unique and fun. maybe side 1 is:

you were the one
lovin living givin
for once in my life
we can never light that flame

ease on down
he's the wizard
you can't win
don't bring me no bad news
brand new day
home [[dance version)

[Jaap]

I never realized before that the cover art of Ross 78 [which I really like] is based on the back cover photograph of Diana Ross 76...

[Ollie9]

I would never have put the two pics together. I just wish they had been a little more creative with the back cover. The back cover pic of Diana Ross 76 is probably my all time fave of Diana.

[sup_fan]

I never realized before that the cover art of Ross 78 [which I really like] is based on the back cover photograph of Diana Ross 76...

wow i never put those together either. the cover of DR 76 is just incredible. i can sit and just stare at it too. ross 78 cover is nice but definitely not hypnotic like other covers. it does boggle the mind when motown would chinz out cover art. there are SOOOOOOOOO many pics of the Sups and DR. you could literally just grab about any one of them and it would work. just drop it onto the page. no fancy fonts or artistic effects

[sup_fan]

for instance the cover art front and back on Greatest Hit Volume Three was truly useless. here's what i did instead. though the title "Three" was so simple, and intriguing

[sup_fan]

sorry - i see that the image didn't come through correctly. would say Greatest Hits Volume Three at the bottom

[sansradio]

I never realized before that the cover art of Ross 78 [which I really like] is based on the back cover photograph of Diana Ross 76...

As is Diana's Duets. It's simply angled differently with a different hairstyle; it's also an homage to an Alice Faye publicity shot:

[Jaap]

Thanks for pointing that out Sansradio. It must be a great picture to use... it's not only the basis for Ross 78 and Duets, but also for All The Great Hits 1981.

[Ollie9]

It was also used on billboards for her 76 tour.

[Spreadinglove21]

As for Ross 78, what should they have done? Not released it. Not that it sucks, but it's just a pedestrian hodge podge of random recordings and was released for sole purpose of putting out product on her. It's funny that she's the top female star at Motown. The top stars ought to be handled with care and consideration and not be used so much as cash cows. Baby It's Me, The Boss and Diana show a lot of care and thought went into each project. Ross 78 not as much. A weird blip in what would have been a great run of albums.

[daviddh]

after listening to songs from DR sings the Wiz. what beautiful songs and vocals,
so to me , i would have mined these tracks, instead of rehashing old songs such as Together,....which should have remained a B side.
wish George or Andy could jump on here to fill the details
i thought this album was originally to reunite Diana with HDH but BG got in the way

[Ollie9]

I remember reading that Giorgio Moroder was going to be producing songs for the album with the original concept being a disco set titled “Feeling Fun”.