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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    We actually established early on in the thread that "Gonna" was a number one in terms of sales, based on the accounting of Cashbox and Record World. The "argument" was never that the song didn't sell tons of copies, the discussion was why did Billboard peak the song at 2.
    Billboard, in the 60s, used a mix that relied heavily on sales, but also took into consideration radio play, and, to a smaller degree, clicks on jukeboxes. The jukebox data was eliminated sometime in the 70s. IGMYLM was a great record, featuring strong vocals and perfect production on a damn fine song. It was a giant hit. Great fine, is a masterpiece, a classic, mana for radio program directors. It sounded so good on the radio, I think it was about that people would be less likely to change the station. j And I think they were correct. Plus, it was a hint I hypnotic, moody very unusual production that drew people to it, but may not have lured those folks into record record stores to play it over and over again at home. How far a single that was number one for seven weeks, the album peeking at number 63 supports that theory.

    I was around, IGMYLM was totally big enough to be a sure fire number one cop its mass appeal was so great, that while the single was number one in sales in the country, people were buying it by the thousands every day on an album. If the album had not come out yet, one can assume hundreds and hundreds of thousands more singles would’ve been sold.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan View Post
    Love Child for example was No. 1 for four weeks as I recall in RW which is more representative of the massive hit that it was, easily the biggest selling Supremes single.
    It was generally accepted at the time that Love Child was the girls' biggest seller to date, Berry hinself stated that and it always royally bugged me that they never claimed any award for it while claiming ones for Baby Love and Stop! In The Name of love.

    In fact as far as I know Where Did Our Love Go was a bigger seller than Baby Love.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by copley View Post
    Motown #2's and what stopped them reaching #1.

    Shop Around -- Calcutta - Lawrence Welk And His Orchestra
    Dancing In The Street -- Do Wah Diddy Diddy - Manfred Mann
    What's Going On -- Just My Imagination -Temptations then Joy To The World - Three Dog Night
    Being With You [[NB UK #1) -- Bette Davis Eyes - Kim Carnes
    I Was Made To Love Her -- Light My Fire - Doors
    For Once In My Life -- Grapevine
    Mama's Pearl -- One Bad Apple - Osmonds
    Never Can Say Goodbye -- Joy To The World - Three Dog Night
    Dancing Machine -- The Streak - Ray Stevens
    Boogie Down -- Seasons In The Sun - Terry Jacks
    I Heard It Through The Grapevine [[GK&TPS) -- I'm A Believer - Monkees then Hello Goodbye - Beatles
    Neither One of Us [[Wants to Be the First to Say Goodbye) -- The Night The Lights Went Out In Georgia - Vicki Lawrence
    Dancing on the Ceiling -- Stuck With You - Huey Lewis & The News

    If I've missed any please add them.
    now that's a good playlist! or back when motown was reissuing all sorts of Greatest Hits cds and cassettes. "Here are the ones that almost made it to the top"

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnjeb View Post
    Thanks for asking this question sup_fan it gave me the opportunity to reference my new Joel Whitburn Comparison Book that I just got for Christmas and have not had the time to review. Not sure I'm actually answering your question but here are some numbers:

    BIMAA: RW #2 for 2 weeks, 12 weeks charted; whereas #1 on both BB & CB for 1 week, 11 weeks charted on each chart
    Reflections was #2 for 2 weeks on BB & RW and on each chart for 11 weeks, but only #2 for 1 week on CB, 13 weeks charted
    IGMYLM #1 for 3 weeks on RW, 12 weeks charted; #1 for 2 weeks on CB, 11 weeks charted; #2 for 2 weeks on BB, 13 weeks charted
    SWBT #1 for 2 weeks CB, 16 weeks charted; #1 for 1 week BB, 16 weeks charted; #2 for 3 weeks RW, 15 weeks charted
    LC RW #1 for 4 weeks, 14 weeks charted; CB #1 for 3 weeks, 15 weeks charted; BB #1 for 2 weeks, 16 weeks charted

    I also reviewed another book that I forgot I had. It's called "Across The Charts, The 60s" which gives the peak chart position for a particular song on each of Billboard's charts. Although most of The Supremes records did well on the Soul and R&B charts, it seems they generally charted highest on the Hot 100 Pop chart.
    much thanks!! great list. I went through and did all of the week-by-week data for Billboard pop [[and disco) but not Billboard r&b. and not these other charts either

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by florence View Post
    It was generally accepted at the time that Love Child was the girls' biggest seller to date, Berry hinself stated that and it always royally bugged me that they never claimed any award for it while claiming ones for Baby Love and Stop! In The Name of love.

    In fact as far as I know Where Did Our Love Go was a bigger seller than Baby Love.
    Call Her Miss Ross talks about the sales figures of many of the songs. but then his later Ross book pretty much eliminates all of this info. I'm assuming that the data available to anyone is highly suspect.

    We can probably assume that Where, YCHL, IGMYLM, LC, Someday and SL were all selling over 1 million. I'd guess BL was up there too. CSAM, Stop, YKMHO, Symphony, Ladder - probably sold a ton and probably eventually sold 1M+ but took longer to do it. I think songs like BIMAA, Reflections, Love is here, Happening probably didn't ever sell 1 million until years and years later. and probably they stopped selling as 45s and just became evergreen hits on Greatest Hits and things.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    I’m sure Motown was pleased as punch to have a one-two punch at the very top. That’s harder to pull off than for each to hit # 1 through their own separate paces.
    From the label’s clout perspective, quite a feat.
    Its even better than that:

    Jan 4th 1969:

    #1 - GRAPEVINE - MG
    #2 - FOR ONCE IN MY LIFE - SW
    #3 - I'M GONNA MAKE YOU... - Cast of Thousands

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    the supremes appeared on the show more than nearly any other act

    Supremes 15 appearances

    JUlie Andrews 4
    The Ames Bros 20
    Louis armstrong 18
    Victor Borge 24
    Jean Carroll 29
    Rosemary Clooney 16
    Nat King Cole 13
    Rodney Dangerfield 15
    Duke Ellington 10
    Connie FRancis 26
    Judy Garland 2
    Robert Goulet 15
    Bert Lahr 17
    Peggy Lee 13
    The McGuire Sisters 22
    Jackie Mason 20
    Liza Minelli 11
    Joan Rivers 20
    Kate Smith 20
    Frank Sinatra 3
    Barbra Streisand 5
    Jerry Vale 15
    Bobby Vinton 10
    Pearl Bailey 23


    the Beatles 10 [[7 were pretaped)
    Animals 6
    Jackie Wilson 7
    DAve Clark Five 12
    Beach Boys 2
    Ray Charles 2

    Wow the super regulars were quite blah. Easy to book I reckon. I can't imagine Pearl Bailey or Robert Goulet that often [as in, why?]. But Ed Sullivan was on a long time so some of these totals cover quite an expanse of years and could equate appearing but once or a couple times per season.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    Wow the super regulars were quite blah. Easy to book I reckon. I can't imagine Pearl Bailey or Robert Goulet that often [as in, why?]. But Ed Sullivan was on a long time so some of these totals cover quite an expanse of years and could equate appearing but once or a couple times per season.
    Sullivan ran 24 seasons, from 1948 to 1971.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    Sullivan ran 24 seasons, from 1948 to 1971.
    thanks ! that goes way back And I wonder how many shows per season .....

  10. #60
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    I'm only guessing here, of course, but I imagine all the singles that made the top 20 from "Where" thru "Floy Joy" ended up with at least the 1 million mark eventually. Because the 1960s are well documented in the fact that Motown did not have official record accounting, what sold what has to be taken with a grain of salt, including any oral certification of "Love Child". But to Sup's point, it stands to reason that some songs were "instant" million sellers, while others have raked up the sales over time.

    My gut tells me that "Where", "Baby Love", "Come See", "Stop", "Hurry", "Hangin", "Gonna", "Love Child", "Someday", and "Stoned" were probably instant million. I would not be surprised if "My World" and "Reflections" and "Ladder" were also instant million sellers, but I'm guessing they might have fallen just short of "instant".

  11. #61
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    The real question is how many copies of "I Want a Guy", "Buttered Popcorn", "Your Heart Belongs to Me", "Right Way", "My Heart Can't Take It No More", and "A Breathtaking Guy" sold.

    For real though, it would be interesting to know if all those songs together even gave the Supremes a quarter of a million. "Ladies and gentlemen, the Boom Boom Room is proud to present, the quarter million selling SUPREMES!"

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    Wow the super regulars were quite blah. Easy to book I reckon. I can't imagine Pearl Bailey or Robert Goulet that often [as in, why?]. But Ed Sullivan was on a long time so some of these totals cover quite an expanse of years and could equate appearing but once or a couple times per season.
    there are some others too - i didn't include every single act. lord knows who many times Senior Wences and his hand appeared lol. "s'alright!" lol

    but this show was definitely geared towards families and middle america. Ed pushed and fought for african americans to be included. Pearl was a perfect option for that, plus her comedic talents would be quite entertaining. and i'd guess Ed just loved her too.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I'm only guessing here, of course, but I imagine all the singles that made the top 20 from "Where" thru "Floy Joy" ended up with at least the 1 million mark eventually. Because the 1960s are well documented in the fact that Motown did not have official record accounting, what sold what has to be taken with a grain of salt, including any oral certification of "Love Child". But to Sup's point, it stands to reason that some songs were "instant" million sellers, while others have raked up the sales over time.

    My gut tells me that "Where", "Baby Love", "Come See", "Stop", "Hurry", "Hangin", "Gonna", "Love Child", "Someday", and "Stoned" were probably instant million. I would not be surprised if "My World" and "Reflections" and "Ladder" were also instant million sellers, but I'm guessing they might have fallen just short of "instant".
    my memory is definitely fading lol but i thought i read somewhere that LC sold hundreds of thousands just in the first couple weeks. like weeks 1, 2 and 3 or so.

    it was one of the rare instances of the timing of a major tv appearance with a single release. they debuted it on Sunday and it was released in stores on Monday. just incredible

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    my memory is definitely fading lol but i thought i read somewhere that LC sold hundreds of thousands just in the first couple weeks. like weeks 1, 2 and 3 or so.

    it was one of the rare instances of the timing of a major tv appearance with a single release. they debuted it on Sunday and it was released in stores on Monday. just incredible
    I think there may have been a Billboard ad saying that

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    my memory is definitely fading lol but i thought i read somewhere that LC sold hundreds of thousands just in the first couple weeks. like weeks 1, 2 and 3 or so.

    it was one of the rare instances of the timing of a major tv appearance with a single release. they debuted it on Sunday and it was released in stores on Monday. just incredible
    It's certainly believable and I could see record stores reporting how the record was flying off the shelves. The problem is that only Motown would know for certain just how many records sold and they refused to allow anyone outside of the company to account for it. I think a lot of those records have been certified gold or platinum since Motown opted in to allowing their books to be monitored, but the numbers prior to would be a guessing game, I guess.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    I think there may have been a Billboard ad saying that
    I recall seeing a similar trade ad for Martha and the Vandellas' LOVE [MAKES ME DO FOOLISH THINGS]. It mentioned the group's Ed Sullivan appearance the previous Sunday and said something like "On TV yesterday. In the Top 10 tomorrow."

    Although in the Vandellas' case, I think Motown may have jumped the gun as I believe the song was dropped and not performed during their appearance. Not to mention, the ad also featured a photo of the group from the Annette era even though she was long gone by the time of the appearance [12/65].
    Last edited by reese; 01-26-2023 at 10:37 AM.

  17. #67
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    With LOVE CHILD, I think it might have helped sales that the Supremes performed it twice on SULLIVAN; once prior to its release, then again after it reached #1.

    LC was released on September 30, 1968
    IGMYLM was released on November 21, 1968
    SHAME was released on January 6, 1969

    The second time they performed LC was after SHAME was released, which they also performed on the show. This would have been the opportune time to showcase IGMYLM.

    Does anyone know; other than in a medley, did the Supremes ever sing the same song on Sullivan on two different shows? Thinking maybe "Somewhere" or maybe "You're Nobody"? But I don't recall them ever doing a hit more than once.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    With LOVE CHILD, I think it might have helped sales that the Supremes performed it twice on SULLIVAN; once prior to its release, then again after it reached #1.

    LC was released on September 30, 1968
    IGMYLM was released on November 21, 1968
    SHAME was released on January 6, 1969

    The second time they performed LC was after SHAME was released, which they also performed on the show. This would have been the opportune time to showcase IGMYLM.

    Does anyone know; other than in a medley, did the Supremes ever sing the same song on Sullivan on two different shows? Thinking maybe "Somewhere" or maybe "You're Nobody"? But I don't recall them ever doing a hit more than once.
    None of the hits were repeated aside from the one you mentioned, LOVE CHILD .

    The same is true of standards. Aside from YOU'RE NOBODY 'TIL SOMEBODY LOVES YOU, none were repeated.

  19. #69
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    I always have liked this song. I wish it were a longer song. The vocals are so romantic!

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    there are some others too - i didn't include every single act. lord knows who many times Senior Wences and his hand appeared lol. "s'alright!" lol

    but this show was definitely geared towards families and middle america. Ed pushed and fought for african americans to be included. Pearl was a perfect option for that, plus her comedic talents would be quite entertaining. and i'd guess Ed just loved her too.
    I have to admit I find this pretty funny ....

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    I have to admit I find this pretty funny ....
    I'm glad I'm old enough to remember when Pearl and so many others were fixtures on tv.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    I'm glad I'm old enough to remember when Pearl and so many others were fixtures on tv.
    I like your attitude !

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Call Her Miss Ross talks about the sales figures of many of the songs. but then his later Ross book pretty much eliminates all of this info. I'm assuming that the data available to anyone is highly suspect.
    I'm totally convinced the figures in JRT's first book are correct - they were supplied to him by an insider and make perfect sense unlike some of the wildly unrealistic claims which some have made.

    I think the figures were removed from the second book under threat of legal action but who knows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by florence View Post
    I'm totally convinced the figures in JRT's first book are correct - they were supplied to him by an insider and make perfect sense unlike some of the wildly unrealistic claims which some have made.

    I think the figures were removed from the second book under threat of legal action but who knows.
    The first book was out for 20 years without legal action over the sales figures or even the threat of it. And the first book sold a lot more than the second.

    So I have always thought they were wrong - especially over time; and he knew it as time went on.

    Someone should ask him.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    The first book was out for 20 years without legal action over the sales figures or even the threat of it. And the first book sold a lot more than the second.

    So I have always thought they were wrong - especially over time; and he knew it as time went on.

    Someone should ask him.
    Someone did!

    A few years back I got an e-mail address where I could contact him and wrote asking about the removal of figures from the second book - never received a response.

    Once the first book was published the figures were out there but I think he was warned not to repeat them - that's my take anyway.

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