IGMYLM - What Happened?

[marybrewster]

Diana Ross and the Supremes and the Temptations were two of the biggest groups in late 1968/early 1969. Pairing them up for a duet was a no-brainer, and an almost guaranteed #1 hit. Yet "I'm Gonna Make You Love Me" stalled at a respectable #2 for 2 weeks. So what happened?

Was it a mistake to release Marvin's "Grapevine" at the same time? Would delaying IGMYLM [[or GV) by a few weeks allowed it to hit the top of the charts? Would a performance on SULLIVAN or including it in TCB have given it the extra boost?

[jobeterob]

Motown had 5 of the Top 10 for a month - Love Child, Grapevine, For Once In My Life, iGMULZm, cloud Nine

It was a surplus of riches! I don’t think anything went wrong, I just don’t think the expected it

[florence]

It's impossible to 100% guarantee a #1 record.

It was Radio which stopped IGMYLM reaching #1 with preference for Grapevine.

Don't forget that on both Cash Box and Record Mirror which compiled on sales only it did make the top, in the case of RM for 3 weeks.

The most unlucky Supremes' record was Reflections - had it been released a few weeks either way it was undoubtedly a #1, it just had the misfortune to get caught behind the "freak" that was Ode To Billie Joe.

Whenever Universal took the chance to back claim sales awards I was always suspicious that there were a plethora for The Temptations and only a handful for the Supremes [[or Diana solo) - supposedly in their case a lot of the documentation had been lost but why would this be?

A lot of their records might not have sold as many as we think but a lot did e.g. Love Child which according to Berry was their biggest seller when released.

Anyway IGMYLM was claimed Platinum in the 90s - it was just unlucky not to hit #1 on Billboard.

[RanRan79]

I think it's a travesty that the song didn't get the honor of number one from Billboard, but as Florence points out, the song was number one in sales based publications. So I think in regards to Billboard it was much like what probably happened with "Nothing But Heartaches", that the competition was just really stiff. Also "Gonna Make" was a slower type song, not danceable like the others. That might also have had something to do with it on the part of radio. But the more important thing is that the public ran out and bought it, as you would expect from such a great sounding song by two of the biggest groups out at the time.

Of course the biggest travesty is that the two groups did not perform the song on television together. Seemed like such a no brainer. For all of Gordy's good ideas about the Supremes and the Tempts individually, IMO he mostly bungled the pairing of his two biggest acts at the time, the "Gonna" single, the Join album, the TCB special, and the accompanying soundtrack notwithstanding.

[marybrewster]

I'm not familiar with the time frame around this release. Some dates I'd be interested in is:

When the single was recorded and released?
When JOIN was released?
When TCB was recorded and aired?
When DRATS / TEMPTS appeared on Sullivan?

If memory serves me right, the single was recorded, then TCB was recorded, then JOIN was released, then TCB aired. Don't know where Sullivan fits in there. I could be wrong on that order too.

If that's the case, TCB would have been recorded too early to include the duet. Which makes no sense on how calculated BG was. What a missed opportunity. But then again, maybe he just wanted to focus this as a vehicle to break out Diana.

[RanRan79]

I'd have to look up the recording date for "Gonna" and I don't feel like it.

However, off the top of my head the timeline was Sullivan [[fall 1967)- "Gonna" and the rest of the Join sessions throughout spring and summer 68- TCB taped late summer or early fall 68- the single and Join released in November- the special and soundtrack airing and released in December.

[RanRan79]

I can forgive "Gonna" not being a part of TCB if Gordy and Co were unsure if that was to the be the single or not. But you would think that perhaps a joint appearance between the Supremes and the Tempts performing the song on Sullivan or some such other big show to promote the upcoming television special would have been on the to do list.

Perhaps the biggest dumb dumb move was the GIT special. I wonder how it did in the ratings? I'm guessing it wasn't the success it could have been. Basing the show around Broadway was dumb. You have the Supremes and the Tempts. No, no, no! If it was just the Supremes, sure, but not paired with the Tempts. The TCB formula should have been repeated, with the groups singing the two hit singles, a couple of other numbers from the two studio albums, and some excellent covers.

[danman869]

I'm not familiar with the time frame around this release. Some dates I'd be interested in is:

When the single was recorded and released?
When JOIN was released?
When TCB was recorded and aired?
When DRATS / TEMPTS appeared on Sullivan?

If memory serves me right, the single was recorded, then TCB was recorded, then JOIN was released, then TCB aired. Don't know where Sullivan fits in there. I could be wrong on that order too.

If that's the case, TCB would have been recorded too early to include the duet. Which makes no sense on how calculated BG was. What a missed opportunity. But then again, maybe he just wanted to focus this as a vehicle to break out Diana.

Mary B, here's some info for you:

"I'm Gonna Make You Love Me" by Diana Ross and The Supremes with The Temptations

Produced by Frank Wilson and Nickolas Ashford. Track recorded May 3, 1968; horns May 18, 1968; additional overdubs May 31, 1968; strings at Golden World June 20, 1968; leads recorded at Golden World September 4, 1968. Released as Motown #1137A, November 21, 1968, Pop #2, R&B #2.

It's possible the background vocals were either recorded as part of the "additional overdubs" or maybe just on the same day as the leads [but not specifically documented as such].

The album, "Join" was released November 8, 1968, and reached Pop LP #2, R&B LP #1.

The "TCB" special was recorded at NBC Studios, Burbank, CA, in late August 1968 and aired on NBC-TV on Monday, December 9, 1968.

Not entirely sure what you mean by DRATS and Tempts on Sullivan. The groupings that recorded IGMYLM never appeared on Sullivan together. If it helps, the David Ruffin-led Temptations appeared with Diana Ross and The Supremes to do a medley of each other's hits on Sunday, November 19, 1967.

[danman869]

And to also respond to your generally asking "was IGMYLM recorded too late to be included on the TCB special," it appears that it was. Who knows--maybe once the lead vocals were recorded in Detroit in September 1968, everybody was like, "now THAT'S the song we need to release as a single!"?

Studio versions of "Try It Baby," "This Guy's In Love With You," "Funky Broadway," "I'll Try Something New," and "The Impossible Dream" appear to be the only songs on the album recorded IN Los Angeles [lead vocals for sure] in late August 1968. It's interesting that of all those songs, they only performed "The Impossible Dream" on TCB, but not "I'll Try Something New." It's very possible that even though they were recorded during their time in Los Angeles for the taping of TCB, the song line-up, charts, etc., for the TCB special had been prepared a few months earlier--making it too late to even include things in the show that might have been considered for a studio version single release.

When looking at TCB, though, I think it was clear that Diana was given plenty of focus and solo time ["Afro Vogue," among other spots] so... while I agree the IDEA of including IGMYLM on the show made LOTS of sense, it just didn't fit in the timeline.

Still, I think they should have gone on Ed Sullivan together to perform the single--and build on the image of performing together that they'd established on TCB in early December.

[marybrewster]

Thanks dan. I couldn't recall when the DRATS / TEMPTS were on Sullivan in relation to IGMYLM. I didn't realize it was that much before.

It's still a bit odd to me that they didn't sing some sort of duet on that appearance. Doing each others hits is kind of lost on me. You had the stage to do something spectacular, and instead you have Diana singing "My Girl".

[copley]

IMHO nothing went wrong, it made #2. Not every great record can get to #1! There's no such thing as a 'guaranteed' #1 hit. Just ask the Beatles!

https://www.billboard.com/charts/hot-100/1969-01-18/

[RanRan79]

Thanks dan. I couldn't recall when the DRATS / TEMPTS were on Sullivan in relation to IGMYLM. I didn't realize it was that much before.

It's still a bit odd to me that they didn't sing some sort of duet on that appearance. Doing each others hits is kind of lost on me. You had the stage to do something spectacular, and instead you have Diana singing "My Girl".

Actually I think that was a genius idea, the two groups singing each other's hits. And then for the last one they all came together. Unfortunately, the one time the two groups sang a duet on television in 1966, that footage has yet to surface, although a photograph circulates.

[RanRan79]

IMHO nothing went wrong, it made #2. Not every great record can get to #1! There's no such thing as a 'guaranteed' #1 hit. Just ask the Beatles!

https://www.billboard.com/charts/hot-100/1969-01-18/

I really don't understand this response. People did the same thing to me when I created the thread about "Nothing But Heartaches" and it's kind of insulting.

No, every song can't be number one, but that's the goal. That's the goal of just about every single song released by a record company trying to make money. So if a product falls short of the goal, doesn't the company ask itself "why"?

For a song to make it all the way to number 2 and stall out, it begs the question of what happened to keep it from the top spot. Yes, the easy answer is not every song makes it to number one. No duh. What a surprise. We never would have considered that.

But if I'm Motown and my product fails to reach the intended goal, I'm pondering the reasons why, that go beyond "every song can't be number one". And since our number one job in this forum is to second guess and critique every little decision Motown made, then it's our job to ask "Why?" in hindsight.

[reese]

Actually I think that was a genius idea, the two groups singing each other's hits. And then for the last one they all came together. Unfortunately, the one time the two groups sang a duet on television in 1966, that footage has yet to surface, although a photograph circulates.

I end up watching the Supremes/Tempts Ed Sullivan medley at least three times a week.

I remember being frustrated when I first saw it during the Motown on Showtime episode on the Tempts and Tops. Because the show was about the Tempts, they cut out the Supremes' performances until I'M LOSING YOU. It wasn't until a few years later that I saw the unedited medley and really thought it was well-done.

I hope their Mike Douglas appearance turns up one day.

[RanRan79]

So with that being said, perhaps another problem presented itself when the album came out roughly two weeks before the single dropped. Now, if Billboard measures both radio and sales, perhaps the lag for "Gonna" was that people were choosing between the album and the single, and they had a couple weeks of just the album before the single dropped.

[RanRan79]

I end up watching the Supremes/Tempts Ed Sullivan medley at least three times a week.

I remember being frustrated when I first saw it during the Motown on Showtime episode on the Tempts and Tops. Because the show was about the Tempts, they cut out the Supremes' performances until I'M LOSING YOU. It wasn't until a few years later that I saw the unedited medley and really thought it was well-done.

I hope the Mike Douglas appearances turns up one day.

I hope it does as well Reese.

The video of the medley on Sullivan is pretty popular online. I've made it a point to stay away from the comments because there's a silly "debate" on Ross vs Ruffin, which makes absolutely zero sense to me. I thought Diana held her own on "Losing You". David was gonna David, and he didn't disappoint. It sucks that he didn't stick with the group through the duets. I would love to have heard what he and Diana could do in the studio together.

[reese]

So with that being said, perhaps another problem presented itself when the album came out roughly two weeks before the single dropped. Now, if Billboard measures both radio and sales, perhaps the lag for "Gonna" was that people were choosing between the album and the single, and they had a couple weeks of just the album before the single dropped.

There was probably too much product issued in those last few months of '68, even though they all became successful. You had the LOVE CHILD album, plus JOIN and TCB, not to mention the I'M GONNA MAKE YOU LOVE ME single.

[reese]

I hope it does as well Reese.

The video of the medley on Sullivan is pretty popular online. I've made it a point to stay away from the comments because there's a silly "debate" on Ross vs Ruffin, which makes absolutely zero sense to me. I thought Diana held her own on "Losing You". David was gonna David, and he didn't disappoint. It sucks that he didn't stick with the group through the duets. I would love to have heard what he and Diana could do in the studio together.

I end up watching a reaction video [[President Pat) of the medley quite often. And yes, sometimes the YouTube and Facebook comments just have to be ignored. I've read some things re Diana vs David and honestly don't see where one bested the other. Whatever might have happened backstage, it was all professional on camera, IMO.

[sup_fan]

i agree that Gonna should have gone #1. frankly i'm not a huge fan of Grapevine so i realize i'm a bit jaded on that one. if the groups had appeared together on Sullivan or Palace together, it would have probably pushed the song that little bit more and gotten the top spot.

i think the same with Reflections. had the group had an opportunity to do it on tv that summer, it would have gone to the top

the girls appeared on Sullivan in early Jan to promote Shame. this was right around the time Gonna was peaking on the charts. that would have been the time to do the duet on tv but motown probably figured it was doing strong enough on it's own and to instead devote the tv time to the new single which was to be the much-anticipated follow up to LC

as we've talked about with many of the 70s recordings, the timing of tv appearances and singles just wasn't well planned out. at least looking from the perspective of today. there weren't the volume of tv shows and all so i just don't think there was quite the mega focus on coordinating every release with a tv appearance. while they clearly did understand some of this - look at when LC was released and their debuting it on tv the sunday prior - it doesn't seem to be something done every time.

[sup_fan]

one more data point on Gonna. it shot up the charts and had a nice run. stayed in the top 10 for 8 weeks. but it's overall time on the charts was just average. LC was one the charts several more weeks

[reese]

I wonder what the response would have been if Motown had gone with the original plan of releasing THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM as the first single from JOIN.

It was a stirring moment on the TCB special so it might have done well but it probably would have needed a single edit.

[Boogiedown]

Ed Sullivan wasnt likely waiting to showcase the supremes every time they had something new to hawk or was able to design his scheduling to suit them best
He didn’t really care if their next single hit # 1 or # 40. He needed to keep the “variety “ concept of his show through a good rotation of acts . Other acts had their own availability limitations too and each show only had so much room for the weeks music fad. As it was, he was pretty generous in providing them time, obviously a favorite of his and/or his audience. What other Motown acts got featured there ?
Did the Temptations perform in Ed on their own?

[reese]

Ed Sullivan wasnt likely waiting to showcase the supremes every time they had something new to hawk or was able to design his scheduling to suit them best
He didn’t really care if their next single hit # 1 or # 40. He needed to keep the “variety “ concept of his show through a good rotation of acts . Other acts had their own availability limitations too and each show only had so much room for the weeks music fad. As it was, he was pretty generous in providing them time, obviously a favorite of his and/or his audience. What other Motown acts got featured there ?
Did the Temptations perform in Ed on their own?

The Tempts appeared on Ed several times.

Other Motown acts that appeared include: Stevie Wonder [the first Motown act to do so], the Miracles, Martha and the Vandellas, Marvin Gaye, the 4 Tops, Gladys Knight and the Pips, and the Jackson 5.

[Boogiedown]

Fantastic Reese . You sure know your stuff . Ed was very good to Motown and vice versa .
It seems a shorter list of who from Motown didn’t appear there .
Probably quite a scheduling challenge , it wasn’t as if the Motown studios were right up the street.

[reese]

Fantastic Reese . You sure know your stuff . Ed was very good to Motown and vice versa .
It seems a shorter list of who from Motown didn’t appear there .
Probably quite a scheduling challenge , it wasn’t as if the Motown studios were right up the street.

I suspect most Motown artists spent a lot of time in NYC, as they might have been headlining venues in the area as well as appearing on other tv shows that were taped there. In his intros, Ed sometimes made mention that some of the acts were Copacabana headliners.

[copley]

The same could be said about 'Reflections' being a 'failure'! Only reached #2! Why? Well it got stuck behind 'Ode To Billy Joe' which was dethroned by 'The Letter'. Were these songs better, well that's subjective. 'Ode' was certainly different but then so was 'Reflections' which is an original Motown masterpiece. Perhaps some folks liked Madeline's version best which had been a hit just 8 months earlier or had grown tired of the song. Who knows. As I said not every song can be #1 and not every great song can be a hit!

[jobeterob]

The same could be said about 'Reflections' being a 'failure'! Only reached #2! Why? Well it got stuck behind 'Ode To Billy Joe' which was dethroned by 'The Letter'. Were these songs better, well that's subjective. 'Ode' was certainly different but then so was 'Reflections' which is an original Motown masterpiece. Perhaps some folks liked Madeline's version best which had been a hit just 8 months earlier or had grown tired of the song. Who knows. As I said not every song can be #1 and not every great song can be a hit!

Reflections and I’m Gonna Make You Love Me deserved number 1 more than The Happening - I think that most of the time

[marybrewster]

Ed Sullivan wasnt likely waiting to showcase the supremes every time they had something new to hawk or was able to design his scheduling to suit them best
He didn’t really care if their next single hit # 1 or # 40. He needed to keep the “variety “ concept of his show through a good rotation of acts . Other acts had their own availability limitations too and each show only had so much room for the weeks music fad. As it was, he was pretty generous in providing them time, obviously a favorite of his and/or his audience. What other Motown acts got featured there ?
Did the Temptations perform in Ed on their own?

Sullivan would have been foolish to ever turn down a Supremes appearance. Based on audience reaction, they were always a hit. And Diana made for good tv. What will the Supremes wear? Will Diana lose an earring? Will Flo misstep the choreography? The teens and queens and adults alike were glued to the set when they were on. I imagine they were always a ratings success.

[marybrewster]

Actually I think that was a genius idea, the two groups singing each other's hits. And then for the last one they all came together. Unfortunately, the one time the two groups sang a duet on television in 1966, that footage has yet to surface, although a photograph circulates.

I don't think the performance is terrible, and I've never understood the Diana versus David comparison either. I just think it was more of a missed opportunity to present something special, versus something that didn't take much thought.

[marybrewster]

And yes, #2 is great. But #1 is the point, right? Who wants to release a #2 record?

Interestingly, in addition to IGMYLM, several other Motown classics failed to hit it, landing just short:

SHOP AROUND
DANCING IN THE STREET
REFLECTIONS
WHAT'S GOING ON
BEING WITH YOU

I wonder what the circumstances were surrounding those; what song held them off?

I know REFLECTIONS was Ode to Billie Joe.

[Spreadinglove21]

For the Temptations, I'm gonna make you love me was released one month after Cloud Nine [[which peaked #6 on pop) a record that re-defined their sound. Two months after I'm gonna make you love me, Runaway Child Running Wild, which continued their new sound, was released. That song also went #6 on pop. Maybe some Temptations fan who were really into the new sound held back on "I'm gonna make you love me" as it's more of the traditional Temptation soulful love song vein?

[sup_fan]

i think Gonna is a beautiful song and a great duet. but i wouldn't say that the song itself or the sound is anything new and different. there had certainly been duets before. what this song represented was the first mega pairing of huge stars. something we've all become accustomed to after the Paul and Michael duets in the 80s, Mariah and BIIM, and on and on. sure Marvin and Tammi were absolutely perfect duet partners. but no one knew or cared about her prior. There might have been some with Bing and the Andrews Sisters but that's before my time or concern. this was the first mega pairing of the Rock Era.

that's what makes this song so unique and special

and if Motown has approached Ed with the idea of a second pairing of the groups on his show to coincide with the release of a special, new single [[especially given how it was NBC that was partnering with Motown on the TCB special and not CBS) the programming directors at Sullivan would have jumped at the chance

my guess is it's just unfortunate timing. It was released 11/21 and the girls were over in Europe all month on tour. then in dec you already have the airing of TCB scheduled. maybe CBS and sullivan could have really pushed to have the groups on his show maybe right around Xmas. sort of build up off of the excitement of TCB and for a special holiday treat. but the girls were already scheduled for 1/6 or so and performed Shame.

[Boogiedown]

Sullivan would have been foolish to ever turn down a Supremes appearance. Based on audience reaction, they were always a hit. And Diana made for good tv. What will the Supremes wear? Will Diana lose an earring? Will Flo misstep the choreography? The teens and queens and adults alike were glued to the set when they were on. I imagine they were always a ratings success.

“Did you see that !? Diana purposely blocked out Mary with her microphone !!”
He haw!

Ya you’re right. I wonder how The Supremes rank amongst Ed’s all -time most desirable bookings …,

[Boogiedown]

i think Gonna is a beautiful song and a great duet. but i wouldn't say that the song itself or the sound is anything new and different. there had certainly been duets before. what this song represented was the first mega pairing of huge stars. something we've all become accustomed to after the Paul and Michael duets in the 80s, Mariah and BIIM, and on and on. sure Marvin and Tammi were absolutely perfect duet partners. but no one knew or cared about her prior. There might have been some with Bing and the Andrews Sisters but that's before my time or concern. this was the first mega pairing of the Rock Era.

that's what makes this song so unique and special

and if Motown has approached Ed with the idea of a second pairing of the groups on his show to coincide with the release of a special, new single [[especially given how it was NBC that was partnering with Motown on the TCB special and not CBS) the programming directors at Sullivan would have jumped at the chance

my guess is it's just unfortunate timing. It was released 11/21 and the girls were over in Europe all month on tour. then in dec you already have the airing of TCB scheduled. maybe CBS and sullivan could have really pushed to have the groups on his show maybe right around Xmas. sort of build up off of the excitement of TCB and for a special holiday treat. but the girls were already scheduled for 1/6 or so and performed Shame.

It isn’t as if an appearance on Sullivan would have absolutely sealed the deal, although that would’ve made for great .television .
I think the nuance of the combined supergroups was clever enough to get it enough radio attention to get it to #2 which imo is amply generous. Even as an Eddie fan I can only handle so much of the high end squawking taking place on here.
Maybe this is so ? , but I seem
To never hear it in oldies formats ….or maybe I glaze over it ….

What song was topping it at #1

[sup_fan]

the supremes appeared on the show more than nearly any other act

Supremes 15 appearances

JUlie Andrews 4
The Ames Bros 20
Louis armstrong 18
Victor Borge 24
Jean Carroll 29
Rosemary Clooney 16
Nat King Cole 13
Rodney Dangerfield 15
Duke Ellington 10
Connie FRancis 26
Judy Garland 2
Robert Goulet 15
Bert Lahr 17
Peggy Lee 13
The McGuire Sisters 22
Jackie Mason 20
Liza Minelli 11
Joan Rivers 20
Kate Smith 20
Frank Sinatra 3
Barbra Streisand 5
Jerry Vale 15
Bobby Vinton 10
Pearl Bailey 23


the Beatles 10 [[7 were pretaped)
Animals 6
Jackie Wilson 7
DAve Clark Five 12
Beach Boys 2
Ray Charles 2

[reese]

i think Gonna is a beautiful song and a great duet. but i wouldn't say that the song itself or the sound is anything new and different. there had certainly been duets before. what this song represented was the first mega pairing of huge stars. something we've all become accustomed to after the Paul and Michael duets in the 80s, Mariah and BIIM, and on and on. sure Marvin and Tammi were absolutely perfect duet partners. but no one knew or cared about her prior. There might have been some with Bing and the Andrews Sisters but that's before my time or concern. this was the first mega pairing of the Rock Era.

that's what makes this song so unique and special

and if Motown has approached Ed with the idea of a second pairing of the groups on his show to coincide with the release of a special, new single [[especially given how it was NBC that was partnering with Motown on the TCB special and not CBS) the programming directors at Sullivan would have jumped at the chance

my guess is it's just unfortunate timing. It was released 11/21 and the girls were over in Europe all month on tour. then in dec you already have the airing of TCB scheduled. maybe CBS and sullivan could have really pushed to have the groups on his show maybe right around Xmas. sort of build up off of the excitement of TCB and for a special holiday treat. but the girls were already scheduled for 1/6 or so and performed Shame.

The Tempts ended up performing IGMYLM on the 2/9/69 episode of Ed Sullivan.

[daviddh]

I don't see anything wrong with #2 honestly.
Great song ,great vocals.classic.
It's all timing ,usually.
Can't believe they, Motown ,actually thought GIT was good. Good awful mess it was. And then they released a soundtrack.
Would been better to promote the album, Together.

[marybrewster]

It isn’t as if an appearance on Sullivan would have absolutely sealed the deal, although that would’ve made for great .television .
I think the nuance of the combined supergroups was clever enough to get it enough radio attention to get it to #2 which imo is amply generous. Even as an Eddie fan I can only handle so much if the highend squawking taking place on here.
Maybe this is so ? , but I seem
To never hear it in oldies formats ….or maybe I glaze over it ….

What song was topping it at #1

Marvin's "Grapevine".

[copley]

Motown #2's and what stopped them reaching #1.

Shop Around -- Calcutta - Lawrence Welk And His Orchestra
Dancing In The Street -- Do Wah Diddy Diddy - Manfred Mann
What's Going On -- Just My Imagination -Temptations then Joy To The World - Three Dog Night
Being With You [[NB UK #1) -- Bette Davis Eyes - Kim Carnes
I Was Made To Love Her -- Light My Fire - Doors
For Once In My Life -- Grapevine
Mama's Pearl -- One Bad Apple - Osmonds
Never Can Say Goodbye -- Joy To The World - Three Dog Night
Dancing Machine -- The Streak - Ray Stevens
Boogie Down -- Seasons In The Sun - Terry Jacks
I Heard It Through The Grapevine [[GK&TPS) -- I'm A Believer - Monkees then Hello Goodbye - Beatles
Neither One of Us [[Wants to Be the First to Say Goodbye) -- The Night The Lights Went Out In Georgia - Vicki Lawrence
Dancing on the Ceiling -- Stuck With You - Huey Lewis & The News

If I've missed any please add them.

[marybrewster]

Motown #2's and what stopped them reaching #1.

Shop Around -- Calcutta - Lawrence Welk And His Orchestra
Dancing In The Street -- Do Wah Diddy Diddy - Manfred Mann
What's Going On -- Just My Imagination -Temptations then Joy To The World - Three Dog Night
Being With You [[NB UK #1) -- Bette Davis Eyes - Kim Carnes
I Was Made To Love Her -- Light My Fire - Doors
For Once In My Life -- Grapevine
Mama's Pearl -- One Bad Apple - Osmonds
Never Can Say Goodbye -- Joy To The World - Three Dog Night
Dancing Machine -- The Streak - Ray Stevens
Boogie Down -- Seasons In The Sun - Terry Jacks
I Heard It Through The Grapevine [[GK&TPS) -- I'm A Believer - Monkees then Hello Goodbye - Beatles
Neither One of Us [[Wants to Be the First to Say Goodbye) -- The Night The Lights Went Out In Georgia - Vicki Lawrence
Dancing on the Ceiling -- Stuck With You - Huey Lewis & The News

If I've missed any please add them.

That would make a great Motown release! The #2's!

[BayouMotownMan]

You guys are looking at this all wrong, not being a No. 1 record does not mean a record didn't sell well.

Take into account the years 1966 and 1967 for Motown. In 1966 Motown had three No. 1 pop hits on the Supremes and 4 Tops. What was the year's biggest seller? Jimmy Ruffin's What Becomes Of The Brokenhearted. Ruffin's song had a much longer shelf life on the charts and the sales surpassed the three No. 1s. It's chart peak was outside the Top 5.

Same was true in 1967 for Gladys Knight's Grapevine. Again that year was Motown's second biggest sales year [[behind 1970). The company had numerous top ten hits. Grapevine stalled at No. 2 but again it stayed in the Top Ten for over two months as I recall and was the biggest selling record of that year for Motown.

I'm Gonna Make You Love Me sold well over a million copies, topping the sales of Reflections, The Happening and Love Is Here. It was a huge hit record, it did HAVE to be No. 1 to achieve that.

[sup_fan]

I don't see anything wrong with #2 honestly.
Great song ,great vocals.classic.
It's all timing ,usually.
Can't believe they, Motown ,actually thought GIT was good. Good awful mess it was. And then they released a soundtrack.
Would been better to promote the album, Together.

GIT was pretty much designed IMO to showcase more of the versatility of Diana and to give her another moment of being Mistress of The Ceremonies. Berry probably didn't give a shit what the hell the groups sang. just give his star another platform. I think the Leading Lady Medley was viewed as the core of the program and then trying to find an additional 50 mins of content. not sure of exact timing but i think this was the time he was trying to land LSTB deal and other movie offers. perhaps even offers for Broadway.

but i agree - the end result was just poor. the dour color palette and staging, the clumsy medleys, the terrible Fiddle set from the Temps with some of their most out of pitch singing. just dreary in every sense

the Porgy and Bess clip is great and those gowns are certainly fabulous. but you'd never have known it by watching the special. the pink in the gowns was just totally washed out against the baby-shit gold set. and P&B was by far the highlight of the DRATS medley. the rest is rather a mess. granted i've only heard it on a bootleg copy but the beginning and end are typical hoaky tripe. M and C sound quite strained and out of tune on Remember. they definitely pulled the best out

[RanRan79]

We actually established early on in the thread that "Gonna" was a number one in terms of sales, based on the accounting of Cashbox and Record World. The "argument" was never that the song didn't sell tons of copies, the discussion was why did Billboard peak the song at 2.

[RanRan79]

I wanna know what the ratings were like for GIT. What good is showcasing Diana if nobody is watching?

[sup_fan]

i would think the ratings were decent enough. remember - there were only 3 channels. so people would tend to watch what was on. also GIT hasn't aged well but that doesn't mean it wasn't received pretty well at the time. the dumb skits are somewhat better when viewed on the show, versus having to just listen to them on the lp. but that type of comedy was quite common on Laugh In, other tv specials, etc. Some of the jokes that don't land today would have been more relevant.

did GIT reach the ratings of TCB - certainly not. but i don't think it bombed when aired. Plus they were clearly trying to reach that MOR audience and show how pleasant and accessible these "colored" people were. how non threatening, how talented, how they're just like those white singers that do broadway.

[Boogiedown]

Marvin's "Grapevine".

Aha well so much for
any bigotry conspiracist’s angle.
I’m sure Motown was pleased as punch to have a one-two punch at the very top. That’s harder to pull off than for each to hit # 1 through their own separate routes.
From the label’s clout perspective, quite a feat.

[BayouMotownMan]

We actually established early on in the thread that "Gonna" was a number one in terms of sales, based on the accounting of Cashbox and Record World. The "argument" was never that the song didn't sell tons of copies, the discussion was why did Billboard peak the song at 2.

At this time Billboard was not based so much on sales as it was on radio airplay and Juke box purchases. Although Billboard is considered the bible of the various charts, in my research Cash Box and Record World were more accurate in regards to actual sales. Gaye's Grapevine was just such a massive hit, radio stations were besieged with requests and thus airplay was greater than for IGMYLM. 1968 was dominated by two monster hit records that planted firmly at No. 1 on the Billboard Charts: The Beatles Hey Jude and Gaye's Grapevine. Love Child for example was No. 1 for four weeks as I recall in RW which is more representative of the massive hit that it was, easily the biggest selling Supremes single.

[sup_fan]

At this time Billboard was not based so much on sales as it was on radio airplay and Juke box purchases. Although Billboard is considered the bible of the various charts, in my research Cash Box and Record World were more accurate in regards to actual sales. Gaye's Grapevine was just such a massive hit, radio stations were besieged with requests and thus airplay was greater than for IGMYLM. 1968 was dominated by two monster hit records that planted firmly at No. 1 on the Billboard Charts: The Beatles Hey Jude and Gaye's Grapevine. Love Child for example was No. 1 for four weeks as I recall in RW which is more representative of the massive hit that it was, easily the biggest selling Supremes single.

and to highlight how big LC was, it deposed Hey Jude at the #1 spot.

with Cashbox and RW, were there any Billboard #1s for the Sups that did NOT go #1 on those charts? is IGMYLM the only additional #1 according to CB and RW?

[johnjeb]

and to highlight how big LC was, it deposed Hey Jude at the #1 spot.

with Cashbox and RW, were there any Billboard #1s for the Sups that did NOT go #1 on those charts? is IGMYLM the only additional #1 according to CB and RW?

Thanks for asking this question sup_fan it gave me the opportunity to reference my new Joel Whitburn Comparison Book that I just got for Christmas and have not had the time to review. Not sure I'm actually answering your question but here are some numbers:

BIMAA: RW #2 for 2 weeks, 12 weeks charted; whereas #1 on both BB & CB for 1 week, 11 weeks charted on each chart
Reflections was #2 for 2 weeks on BB & RW and on each chart for 11 weeks, but only #2 for 1 week on CB, 13 weeks charted
IGMYLM #1 for 3 weeks on RW, 12 weeks charted; #1 for 2 weeks on CB, 11 weeks charted; #2 for 2 weeks on BB, 13 weeks charted
SWBT #1 for 2 weeks CB, 16 weeks charted; #1 for 1 week BB, 16 weeks charted; #2 for 3 weeks RW, 15 weeks charted
LC RW #1 for 4 weeks, 14 weeks charted; CB #1 for 3 weeks, 15 weeks charted; BB #1 for 2 weeks, 16 weeks charted

I also reviewed another book that I forgot I had. It's called "Across The Charts, The 60s" which gives the peak chart position for a particular song on each of Billboard's charts. Although most of The Supremes records did well on the Soul and R&B charts, it seems they generally charted highest on the Hot 100 Pop chart.

[Boogiedown]

Oooooh I WANT that !!!!


RIP Joel Whitburn


Good work!:

Thanks for asking this question sup_fan it gave me the opportunity to reference my new Joel Whitburn Comparison Book that I just got for Christmas and have not had the time to review. Not sure I'm actually answering your question but here are some numbers:

BIMAA: RW #2 for 2 weeks, 12 weeks charted; whereas #1 on both BB & CB for 1 week, 11 weeks charted on each chart
Reflections was #2 for 2 weeks on BB & RW and on each chart for 11 weeks, but only #2 for 1 week on CB, 13 weeks charted
IGMYLM #1 for 3 weeks on RW, 12 weeks charted; #1 for 2 weeks on CB, 11 weeks charted; #2 for 2 weeks on BB, 13 weeks charted
SWBT #1 for 2 weeks CB, 16 weeks charted; #1 for 1 week BB, 16 weeks charted; #2 for 3 weeks RW, 15 weeks charted
LC RW #1 for 4 weeks, 14 weeks charted; CB #1 for 3 weeks, 15 weeks charted; BB #1 for 2 weeks, 16 weeks charted

I also reviewed another book that I forgot I had. It's called "Across The Charts, The 60s" which gives the peak chart position for a particular song on each of Billboard's charts. Although most of The Supremes records did well on the Soul and R&B charts, it seems they generally charted highest on the Hot 100 Pop chart.