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  1. #1

    Tossing out random thoughts: Gladys Knight & The Pips: "Everybody Needs Love"

    I was playing this today and recalled how much I LOVED this song when I heard it at 13. Precisely, the thing I loved was the sparseness of it all. The song didn't overwhelm you with "theatrics." It was basically a guitar, a bass, drums and those very cool finger snaps. Oh and strings. It was one of the few songs I thought I could actually play on my dad's guitar. On the verses and choruses, it's incredible how little musically is going on, allowing plenty, PLENTY of room for the voices to carry the record. I also, was thinking of how, in another thread here, the issue came up about the Andantes being used with the Pips on "Just Walk In My Shoes." I forgot the Andantes are also on "Everybody Needs Love." It's very, VERY subtle- in the video below, if you go to this spot: 1:16 and 2:28, you'll hear the Andantes singing, what sounds like, "Love, love, you need sweet love", starting just a millisecond before the Pips finish their "doo-doo-doo-doo" riff. The words may not be exact, but the point is there are two sets of vocals on this record. It's a fascinating bit of mixing because if you didn't think about it, you'd just assume the Pips singing all in falsetto. Even though their contributions seem to be fairly minimal here, for whatever reason, [[maybe Quality Control) it was decided to blend in the Andantes' voices.

    Last edited by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance; 01-12-2023 at 01:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance View Post
    II forgot the Andantes are also on "Everybody Needs Love." It's very, VERY subtle- in the video below, if you go to this spot: 1:16 and 2:28, you'll hear the Andantes singing, what sounds like, "Love, love, you need sweet love", starting just a millisecond before the Pips finish their "doo-doo-doo-doo" riff. The words may not be exact, but the point is there are two sets of vocals on this record. It's a fascinating bit of mixing because if you didn't think about it, you'd just assume the Pips singing all in falsetto. Even though their contributions seem to be fairly minimal here, for whatever reason, [[maybe Quality Control) it was decided to blend in the Andantes' voices.
    I've been listening to "Everybody Needs Love" ever since in came out in '67 and never noticed The Andantes work on the song until now. Thanks for the info Watching!

    PS: Despite good takes on this song by The Temptations & The Velvelettes, Gladys Knight & The Pips' version of "Everybody Needs Love" is my favorite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motown Eddie View Post
    I've been listening to "Everybody Needs Love" ever since in came out in '67 and never noticed The Andantes work on the song until now. Thanks for the info Watching!

    PS: Despite good takes on this song by The Temptations & The Velvelettes, Gladys Knight & The Pips' version of "Everybody Needs Love" is my favorite.
    Mary Wells did a nice version as well.

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    Actually I don't hear the Andantes here at all. Was nothing subtle about their voices

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Mary Wells did a nice version as well.
    Yes she did and I completely forgot about it [and Mary Wells' version of "Everybody Needs Love" was the first one to be completed]. And I also forgot that Jimmy Ruffin & Smokey Robinson and The Miracles did the song as well.
    Last edited by Motown Eddie; 01-12-2023 at 11:34 AM.

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    The Velvelettes version is most similar to that of Gladys Knight & The Pips. Maybe worth a comparison?.

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    Loving The Andantes as I do, I don't hear their voices nor their vocal blend at all on Gladys' version.

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    I thought they stopped Motown from using the andantes on their records pre 1967

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary View Post
    Loving The Andantes as I do, I don't hear their voices nor their vocal blend at all on Gladys' version.
    I pretty much expected that not many would hear it so that's why I went into all that detail about exactly where and when I was distinctly hearing 2 sets of backing vocals and what the Pips were singing while another set of voices were singing something else behind Gladys. Could it have been that the Pips overdubbed a second vocal part? Maybe, but I do hear 2 sets of vocals at the parts I detailed in the first post. But music is like that- some ears will pick out a flat note or mechanical glitch while others will hear something else.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan View Post
    Actually I don't hear the Andantes here at all. Was nothing subtle about their voices

    I had kinda figured I'd just drop it, but there was a new post here so I'll say the same thing here that I said elsewhere; I pretty much expected that not many would hear it so that's why I went into all that detail about exactly where and when I was distinctly hearing 2 sets of backing vocals and what the Pips were singing while another set of voices were singing something else behind Gladys. Could it have been that the Pips overdubbed a second vocal part? Maybe, but I do hear 2 sets of vocals at the parts I detailed in the first post. But music is like that- some ears will pick out a flat note or mechanical glitch while others will hear something else, or hear nothing at all. But I'm pleasantly surprised that everyone DID chime in here

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    I know they were on just walk by shoes but I don’t hear them here

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    Quote Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance View Post
    I pretty much expected that not many would hear it so that's why I went into all that detail about exactly where and when I was distinctly hearing 2 sets of backing vocals and what the Pips were singing while another set of voices were singing something else behind Gladys. Could it have been that the Pips overdubbed a second vocal part? Maybe, but I do hear 2 sets of vocals at the parts I detailed in the first post. But music is like that- some ears will pick out a flat note or mechanical glitch while others will hear something else.
    Waiting, I went to the two spots that you recommended for verification of The Andantes' presence. In fact, I was actually hoping to hear what you were hearing. [[You know, like one of those "After all these years, how did I ever manage to miss that?" moments! But, I've gotta say I'm still not hearig it. The Pips' vocals may have been overdubbed a couple of times, but I didn't pick up the special blend that the Andantes possess.

    As long as we're on the subject, I love Gladys/Pips "Everybody Needs Love" album, but my preferred version of the "Everybody Needs Love" song is the version I heard and immediately loved upon my first hearing which is The Temptations' version. I'm a sucker for an uptempo Motown shuffle-beat with strings! Always have been, and always will be. That's why I love The Tempts' version so much. Mary Wells' rendition is my 2nd favorite, but, IMHO, it's screaming for strings which makes it seem unfinished.
    I would like Gladys/Pips' version better if it were a bit more uptempo. Same goes for The Velvelettes' version which utilizes the same backing track as Gladys'.
    Last edited by Philles/Motown Gary; 01-22-2023 at 09:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance View Post
    I had kinda figured I'd just drop it, but there was a new post here so I'll say the same thing here that I said elsewhere; I pretty much expected that not many would hear it so that's why I went into all that detail about exactly where and when I was distinctly hearing 2 sets of backing vocals and what the Pips were singing while another set of voices were singing something else behind Gladys. Could it have been that the Pips overdubbed a second vocal part? Maybe, but I do hear 2 sets of vocals at the parts I detailed in the first post. But music is like that- some ears will pick out a flat note or mechanical glitch while others will hear something else, or hear nothing at all. But I'm pleasantly surprised that everyone DID chime in here
    WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance.....

    This interesting thread, and the various opinions raised here, is ample proof that Soulful Detroit is still a great place to visit!

    It would also be very interesting to know what the studio session notes state for 'Everybody Needs Love'.

    I agree that additional background voices seem to have been overdubbed in places, to add fullness of sound to the recording.

    To my own ears, yes, those additional voices are those of The Pips.

    I can think of a reason why The Andantes could originally have been added to the vocals. But I can also think of a reason why they actually were not....

    In the clip you have posted here [and also by listening to CD with headphones], I have to say I do not hear the voices of The Andantes, either singing in harmony - or singing in unison as, for example, on 'I'll Keep Holding On' by The Marvelettes.

    That said, Gladys's contralto singing voice is quite similar to that of Jackie Hicks, who usually took the lowest notes whenever The Andantes did sing in harmony.

    Is it possible that Gladys is actually singing background here with The Pips, if only on selected lyric lines? Much in the same way that she did when they all sang background on 'You' by Marvin Gaye?

    If that is indeed true, then while Gladys's voice here is low in the mix when singing background with The Pips, it just might have been sufficiently audible for your ears to register a female voice in there, and lead you to think you are actually hearing The Andantes?

    To my own ears, there are a very few places in 'Everybody Needs Love' [for example, on the chorus) where Gladys's voice does seem to be momentarily double tracked, and where her 'second' voice in the background can be identified apart from the voices of The Pips.

    But this thread simply proves that not only is each one of us influenced by what we think we hear....but, quite often, what we want to hear.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by westgrandboulevard View Post
    WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance.....

    This interesting thread, and the various opinions raised here, is ample proof that Soulful Detroit is still a great place to visit!

    It would also be very interesting to know what the studio session notes state for 'Everybody Needs Love'.

    I agree that additional background voices seem to have been overdubbed in places, to add fullness of sound to the recording.

    To my own ears, yes, those additional voices are those of The Pips.

    I can think of a reason why The Andantes could originally have been added to the vocals. But I can also think of a reason why they actually were not....

    In the clip you have posted here [and also by listening to CD with headphones], I have to say I do not hear the voices of The Andantes, either singing in harmony - or singing in unison as, for example, on 'I'll Keep Holding On' by The Marvelettes.

    That said, Gladys's contralto singing voice is quite similar to that of Jackie Hicks, who usually took the lowest notes whenever The Andantes did sing in harmony.

    Is it possible that Gladys is actually singing background here with The Pips, if only on selected lyric lines? Much in the same way that she did when they all sang background on 'You' by Marvin Gaye?

    If that is indeed true, then while Gladys's voice here is low in the mix when singing background with The Pips, it just might have been sufficiently audible for your ears to register a female voice in there, and lead you to think you are actually hearing The Andantes?

    To my own ears, there are a very few places in 'Everybody Needs Love' [for example, on the chorus) where Gladys's voice does seem to be momentarily double tracked, and where her 'second' voice in the background can be identified apart from the voices of The Pips.

    But this thread simply proves that not only is each one of us influenced by what we think we hear....but, quite often, what we want to hear.
    Cool. I can go with what you're saying about the part I'm hearing being Gladys singing with the Pips. The main thing is that my ears hear somebody is singing something behind Gladys - love, love, you need sweet love, or something to that effect. And yes, it seems this extra set of vocals are only during those parts. I can hear that extra set begin singing before the doo, doo, Doo Doo part ends. It is interesting to me that this part is mixed so low. It's not on the Velvelettes version which uses the exact same backing track. I keep hearing that people aren't hearing it or they aren't hearing the Andantes' signature blend - so maybe it isn't them. I may have been hallucinating hearing any it all these years, but I can accept your thoughts here.

    Now excuse me as I get the hell out of this damn ditch I've dug for myself! [[Just kidding - kinda...)
    Last edited by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance; 01-23-2023 at 07:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by westgrandboulevard View Post
    It would also be very interesting to know what the studio session notes state for 'Everybody Needs Love'.
    Here's the recording information on Gladys Knight and The Pips' "Everybody Needs Love":

    Produced by Norman Whitfield. Track recorded March 30, 1966, assigned to The Velvelettes; strings added April 5, 1966; lead vocal recorded April 19, 1966; background vocals recorded April 22 and April 30, 1966; miscellaneous overdubs May 2, 1966.

    I suppose it's possible that The Andantes were part of "miscellaneous overdubs." It appears that background vocals were recorded twice. I believe Andy Skurow once said that [in reissues/expanded editions] they would use the term "background vocals" for the group members and "background voices" for The Andantes or non-group members. From my annotations [taken from TCMS7], I have "vocals" so I would assume there's no specific documentation of "voices" being added--BUT... it's possible the Andantes' dub-in was documented as "miscellaneous overdubs." Then again, it could also mean a tambourine or finger snaps. I suppose without access to the multi-tracks to isolate what's happening in the background, we'll never know for sure.
    Last edited by danman869; 01-24-2023 at 12:42 AM. Reason: BOLDing

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by danman869 View Post
    Here's the recording information on Gladys Knight and The Pips' "Everybody Needs Love":

    Produced by Norman Whitfield. Track recorded March 30, 1966, assigned to The Velvelettes; strings added April 5, 1966; lead vocal recorded April 19, 1966; background vocals recorded April 22 and April 30, 1966; miscellaneous overdubs May 2, 1966.

    I suppose it's possible that The Andantes were part of "miscellaneous overdubs." It appears that background vocals were recorded twice. I believe Andy Skurow once said that [in reissues/expanded editions] they would use the term "background vocals" for the group members and "background voices" for The Andantes or non-group members. From my annotations [taken from TCMS7], I have "vocals" so I would assume there's no specific documentation of "voices" being added--BUT... it's possible the Andantes' dub-in was documented as "miscellaneous overdubs." Then again, it could also mean a tambourine or finger snaps. I suppose without access to the multi-tracks to isolate what's happening in the background, we'll never know for sure.
    It would seem everyone here is right the track WAS prepared for release without those additional overdubs and does exist in that form before those additional overdubs were added for the tracks final release

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by paul_nixon View Post
    It would seem everyone here is right the track WAS prepared for release without those additional overdubs and does exist in that form before those additional overdubs were added for the tracks final release
    ..."everyone" here is right? Practically "everyone" wasn't even hearing anything there...
    I'm not even sure if I'M just hearing things anymore...
    I'm turning a blind eye to this effing monster I've created.
    Last edited by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance; 01-24-2023 at 10:46 AM.

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    I've just had chance to listen, it's a song I absolutely love. To me, there are what i'd describe as 'choral sounds', which may not be the Pips. Gladys's lead vocals usually slay me, but I'm a sucker for the Pips' back-ups, they have a really distinctive sound. I think the high voice in the group was Ed Patten, but all three can hit the high notes when required, I've found.

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