Supremes Sing R&H - one of the most perfect supremes' albums

[sup_fan]

Was on a flight and listening to several of the tracks. frankly, the word Fantastic just really doesn't do justice. the orchestration is exquisite, the production qualities perfect and the vocals amazing. even if you're not a huge fan of the MOR content by the group, i think it would be a pretty universal sentiment that the group did an incredible job on this

this album should have been showered with Grammy nominations, not to mention wins.

which are your fav tracks? would you have revised the 12-track list based on the unreleased tracks? thoughts?

[reese]

I really like THIS CAN'T BE LOVE, WHERE OR WHEN, LOVER, MY FUNNY VALENTINE, MY HEART STOOD STILL, FALLING IN LOVE WITH LOVE, and BLUE MOON from the released album.

I never paid too much attention to the unreleased songs.

[floyjoy678]

Have always loved this album. But...not a fan of the Lady Is A Tramp. I do like it when they did it live but didn't care much for the album version. Of the unreleased tracks I love Bewitched [[the version w/ Flo and Mary harmonizing with Diana on the verses) and Blue Room. The last time I listened to the album recently, This Can't Be Love, got a lot of repeat listens from me. It's too bad this was the last full album the original trio did together as they were really at their peak here.

[SatansBlues]

This is definitely one of my favorite albums. I hate MOR tunes and not a fan of showtunes, but I think this album showcased the group very nicely. I wasn't fond of the sound on the track The Lady Is A Tramp the first time I heard it on vinyl, it just sounded a little muddled. I also recently just learned that on the album Motown Celebrates Sinatra there's a slightly different mix of the song including a count off at the top, plus it sounds like the strings and horn are mixed up on the track and at the end Mary and Florence vocals are a little crisper, as is Diana's lead vocals. This mix should have been on the album.

Of the tracks that did not make the final album the song Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered [[ALT) should have definitely made the cut. It almost sounds like a duet between Diana and Florence and it's really beautiful. There's really not a dud in all of the unreleased songs IMO and are just as great as those on the released album.

[sup_fan]

of course we could always improve on perfection lol

if i could change things, i'd:

1. raise up the backing vocals in the mix. M and F aren't as muted as on Symphony but they're a little far back for my taste
2. the amount of 3-part harmony on here is a little lacking too. perhaps if the BG vocal volumes were raised, there would be more. but listen to the There's A Place For Us tracks and you hear how much more 3--part they were doing.
3. I'd have had Flo do Johnny One Note as lead

[sup_fan]

how on earth did they not consider Sing For Your Supper? it's from the Boys From Syracuse and was written for a female trio. imagine the 3-part harmony, trading off lines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laE3dcf_dDw

[Spreadinglove21]

Of the Supremes specialty albums, it's the best. But though unfair of me, in comparison to the Ella Fitzgerald song books [[of which R and H is one of them), just not in the same league, vocally or arrangement wise.

[Ollie9]

Probably their finest effort as regards group vocals. The only changes i would make is for Flo and Mary to be given a whole lead each, plus my fave song “The Blue Room” to be included.
Flo would have shone on “This Cant Be Love”

[daviddh]

loved this album and think it could be a classic set
loved the track , Manhatten from the expanded cd. havent listened to this cd in years but now you have peaked my ears ,yet again. will go and have a listen
always liked blue Moon and This Cant Be Loved
i did like the live versions on the tv special Rogers and Hart today.the backing vocals are more prominent and love the harmony

[johnjeb]

I'm glad that all the R&H songs were released on the two CD collections. However, nothing caught my attention that had me wondering why it wasn't included on the original 1967 release.

A few years ago I listened a bit more closely to the unreleased tracks after reading posts on this Forum. I listened to the unreleased songs first followed by the original album. I felt the unreleased songs were more adult-contemporary. It sounded like an album my mother, 20 years my senior, would have listened to at the time. The original album felt more upbeat and lively. Definitely something for teenagers. It was more representative of The Supremes and The Motown Sound, The Sound of Young America, as was noted on the back cover.

As good as the unreleased songs may be I think the released album was more befitting the group of early 1967 and geared towards their prime audience. Of course, we were unaware of the turmoil within the group and the changes that would soon come. The unreleased songs would have made a fine Vol 2 in 1968 when the group and Diana Ross were achieving greater success with more adult-themed recordings and appearances.

[daviddh]

Just heard the alt bewitched bothered .
Love it.nice to hear Florence in the background

[jobeterob]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lro8mzrf9g0

Should have made the original album.

One of the best semi duets of Diana & Florence.

[Ollie9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lro8mzrf9g0

Should have made the original album.

One of the best semi duets of Diana & Florence.

My least favourite performance from the entire sessions. The arrangement sounds clunky, with the vocal interpretation rather hammy, in a vaudevillian kind of way. Compared to the other songs it lacks any kind of sophistication whatsoever.
With so many other brilliant performances to choose from, i can well understand why it was left off the original release.
Ella has this one for me.

[jobeterob]

My least favourite performance from the entire sessions. The arrangement sounds clunky, with the vocal interpretation rather hammy, in a vaudevillian kind of way. Compared to the other songs it lacks any kind of sophistication whatsoever.
With so many other brilliant performances to choose from, i can well understand why it was left off the original release.
Ella has this one for me.

Manhattan was one of the songs that made me appreciate Florence.

[Spreadinglove21]

Their version of Manhattan is not very good. They are swept away by Rodger's romantic melody, but sing like they don't understand the acidly satiric humor of Hart's lyrics.

[Ollie9]

Manhattan was one of the songs that made me appreciate Florence.

That’s interesting as i don’t really like Florence on it at all. She’s simply to loud, seeming to be competing with Diana’s lead vocal. It certainly doesn’t sound anything approaching a duet
The arrangement is bold, brassy and rather clumsy which for me just kills the song.
Had they gone for the same kind of arrangement as Ella’s version, with that wonderful intro and less intrusive background vocals it might. have turned out a classic.
As is, not to fond.

[kenneth]

Manhattan was one of the songs that made me appreciate Florence.

I love this arrangement and performance! I think the girls' youthful exuberance is perfectly suited to the song and its lyrics. I also feel like the rather bombastic arrangement is in keeping with Motown's way of interpreting Broadway type tunes. I'm assuming this was a Gil Askey arrangement? I admire him more all the time as I hear more and more of his work.

[sup_fan]

i think a few of the unreleased tracks rival the released one.

Little Girl Blue would have been a stunning addition to the lp, replacing My Funny Valentine. MFV was essentially a solo for diana and at least LGB incorporates the trio. and is a lovely, lovely song

Blue Room is one of my favs from the unreleased sets. just beautifully performed.


the album was so incredible because it included re-interpretations of some of the classic tunes. the ones with a more Motown beat were contemporary readings of these songs and gave them some new life and interest. do i think their superior to the original style - no. but i appreciate the artistic intention to take a few tunes and do something new and interesting. you're right that most of the unreleased are more traditional

[Ollie9]

i think a few of the unreleased tracks rival the released one.

Little Girl Blue would have been a stunning addition to the lp, replacing My Funny Valentine. MFV was essentially a solo for diana and at least LGB incorporates the trio. and is a lovely, lovely song

Blue Room is one of my favs from the unreleased sets. just beautifully performed.

It’s interesting how tastes can vary. I find Diana’s 67 version of “ Little Girl Blue” a little lacking when compared to her masterful version on the “Touch Me In The Morning” album.
I definitely consider her version of “My Funny Valentine” one of the highlights of the album. It revealed a depth in her voice rarely heard up until that point. She really didn’t need M&F on that one.

[jobeterob]

It’s interesting how tastes can vary. I find Diana’s 67 version of “ Little Girl Blue” a little lacking when compared to her masterful version on the “Touch Me In The Morning” album.
I definitely consider her version of “My Funny Valentine” one of the highlights of the album. It revealed a depth in her voice rarely heard up until that point. She really didn’t need M&F on that one.

I agree with the Little Girl Blue comments.

With respect to Manhattan, several times I have seen this divergence of opinion and have seen comments that it doesn't measure up; and then others that think it's wonderful.

[Ollie9]

I agree with the Little Girl Blue comments.

With respect to Manhattan, several times I have seen this divergence of opinion and have seen comments that it doesn't measure up; and then others that think it's wonderful.

There would appear more who like it then don’t. The novelty of Flo being so prominently featured plays a large part, but to my ears it’s certainly no duet.
Diana was on fire during these sessions, making it more a shame she had to plough through such a cheesy arrangement to a classic song. She would have killed the original intro.
Other then finding “Spring Is Here” a little strained in places, i adore everything about the album.
Its easy to understand why Berry was reported to be so over the moon when first hearing the results. Mr A certainly did a fine job.

[Bluebrock]

There would appear more who like it then don’t. The novelty of Flo being so prominently featured plays a large part, but to my ears it’s certainly no duet.
Diana was on fire during these sessions, making it more a shame she had to plough through such a cheesy arrangement to a classic song. She would have killed the original intro.
Other then finding “Spring Is Here” a little strained in places, i adore everything about the album.
Its easy to understand why Berry was reported to be so over the moon when first hearing the results. Mr A certainly did a fine job.

Hi Ollie. Hope you are well. I think i may have shared this story previously but here i go again. Diana very rarely spoke of her Supremes days for fear of being misquoted, but one particular day when i mentioned how much i loved the R&H album she began to talk about it and how much both she and Florence loved singing Manhattan. When it was left off the original album both she and Florence went to Berry and pleaded with him to include it on the album. Their pleas fell on deaf ears and Berry canned the track. It would appear that he agreed with your good self regarding the quality of it. As for me i agreed with Diana and Florence, but i do concede that Ella owned this song and hers will always be the definitive version. It's such an inspiring song. I do feel it was good enough for inclusion. Perhaps it should have been a double album as originally intended.

[sup_fan]

It’s interesting how tastes can vary. I find Diana’s 67 version of “ Little Girl Blue” a little lacking when compared to her masterful version on the “Touch Me In The Morning” album.
I definitely consider her version of “My Funny Valentine” one of the highlights of the album. It revealed a depth in her voice rarely heard up until that point. She really didn’t need M&F on that one.

completely agree that Diana's version on TMITM was amazing. she'd grown so by then and the tune is one of her masterpieces. so sure, it's better than the R&H version

but you can't really judge the 66 version by the 72 version. of course someone should be more skilled as a vocalist 6 years later. so you need to view the 66 version in and of itself. I find the tune fits her range a bit better than Valentine which makes her strain more for the notes. also M & F are barely featured on V. and i just like the tune better anyway

[sup_fan]

Hi Ollie. Hope you are well. I think i may have shared this story previously but here i go again. Diana very rarely spoke of her Supremes days for fear of being misquoted, but one particular day when i mentioned how much i loved the R&H album she began to talk about it and how much both she and Florence loved singing Manhattan. When it was left off the original album both she and Florence went to Berry and pleaded with him to include it on the album. Their pleas fell on deaf ears and Berry canned the track. It would appear that he agreed with your good self regarding the quality of it. As for me i agreed with Diana and Florence, but i do concede that Ella owned this song and hers will always be the definitive version. It's such an inspiring song. I do feel it was good enough for inclusion. Perhaps it should have been a double album as originally intended.

what a wonderful story. even in early 67 when things were really strained in the group, there was still camaraderie between the girls. clearly though, Berry probably knew that there was no reason to include Flo - my guess being that he knew her days were numbered so why bother spotlighting her voice

i do think the tune would have worked a little better to have the girls trading off lines. rather than singing together

[sup_fan]

also several people have commented and compared the Sups lp to Ella's amazing collection of Songbooks. I'm a huge fan of her work and the Songbooks are just stunning. true cornerstones of american recorded music

but Ella was also in her 40s when recording these. she had been singing since the 30s so had a nearly 20 - 30 year career by the time she started these.

The supremes had been working for about 7 or 8 years when they did the R&H collection. they were also 22 or so when they did this.

so of course i'd expect Ella's to be a more mature interpretation of the tunes. no one would expect the Supremes [[mere 22 year olds) to be able to perform like a seasoned artist in her mid 40s. but in a way they did. the achievement they did as 22 year olds was the groundbreaking part of it. their vocals are far beyond the typical pop singers or young adults. their ability to harmonize, interpret lyric, etc. that's what makes this such a special album

[kenneth]

also several people have commented and compared the Sups lp to Ella's amazing collection of Songbooks. I'm a huge fan of her work and the Songbooks are just stunning. true cornerstones of american recorded music

but Ella was also in her 40s when recording these. she had been singing since the 30s so had a nearly 20 - 30 year career by the time she started these.

The supremes had been working for about 7 or 8 years when they did the R&H collection. they were also 22 or so when they did this.

so of course i'd expect Ella's to be a more mature interpretation of the tunes. no one would expect the Supremes [[mere 22 year olds) to be able to perform like a seasoned artist in her mid 40s. but in a way they did. the achievement they did as 22 year olds was the groundbreaking part of it. their vocals are far beyond the typical pop singers or young adults. their ability to harmonize, interpret lyric, etc. that's what makes this such a special album

@sup_fan,

I agree with your analysis. What a heady experience it must have been at such young ages to be sharing the stage or even sharing the song books of so many show biz legends. I can't even imagine what that must have seemed like to Diane, Florence and Mary. That they handled it as [[at least in the public eye) graciously as they did speaks volumes about their ability to transcend some of their personal differences for the sake of the ever growing fan base, in both the teenage as well as the supper club set.

I know I've told this story before, but I remember at a very young age my grandmother, a naturalized American citizen who learned English as a third language, saying to my mother, "I don't know why, but I just love those three girls!" whenever they were on TV. I can't say for sure, but I can believe it was their performances of some of the standards, such as the Rodgers and Hart tunes or the Copa selections which they often sang such as "You're Nobody Till Somebody Loves You" that helped her become such a fan of our girls.

[sup_fan]

it seems the girls were exposed to a more wide style of artists and singing early on. Mary credits her Aunt and Uncle as having records by various artists. DMF clearly had the vocal chops to handle more complex arrangements and singing and we're so fortunate that they eager explored these other avenues early. Also Berry realized that for black artists, the real money would be to breakthrough to the MOR area. that would allow for club work and things beyond just playing the Apollo and Howard.

motown wasn't the only label that was making successes in getting black artists more into the mainstream. Ella and her songbooks on Verve. Ray Charles and his groundbreaking Modern Sounds in C&W. and these are just a few examples - there are many more. So fortunately Berry was able to draw on these pioneers and do similar things with the Sups.

i wish the Sups C&W album had included more covers and less of the originals [[which are rather mediocre quality of songs, although the girls sing them well). Sam Cook is a great album but agree with other fan's assessment that it would have been better with the Funk Bros playing.

[sup_fan]

the growth and development of the girls is so fun to listen through. listen to DMF do You're Nobody from the Live in Paris show, then the Copa, then the Roostertail and then Copa 67. that's almost an exact 2 year run of the song. yet it's lightyears in terms of development and growth

then listen to DR doing Little Girl Blue in 72 and then Small Hotel in 91 on Stolen Moments. again, fascinating

[RanRan79]

Y'all can have the original album. I rarely play it, save for a couple of particular tunes. For me it's all about the outtakes, which IMO were mostly the better songs and I play those fairly regularly.

[sup_fan]

Y'all can have the original album. I rarely play it, save for a couple of particular tunes. For me it's all about the outtakes, which IMO were mostly the better songs and I play those fairly regularly.

so Ran - play producer! which 12 tracks would you make into 1 album?

[jobeterob]

There were certain songs that made the Supremes favorites of mine - where the interplay of Diana and Florence turned some of us into fans - Manhattan was one; but from memory without listening to be certain, also Nothing But Heartaches, It’s All Your Fault, parts of You Keep Me Hangin On especially the alternate version, maybe Back In My Arms Again and Come See About Me; and other cuts from the years prior to 1967 and before it was clearly understood that Diana was in a separate class of performer.

Florence was the “second” Supreme and Mary was the quiet one so she was a favourite.

But they became too famous like the Beatles, Beach Boys, and Temptations and the jealousy and fighting began and hair splitting analysis of every word and every slight that might have occurred. That part is always sad.

[Spreadinglove21]

also several people have commented and compared the Sups lp to Ella's amazing collection of Songbooks. I'm a huge fan of her work and the Songbooks are just stunning. true cornerstones of american recorded music

but Ella was also in her 40s when recording these. she had been singing since the 30s so had a nearly 20 - 30 year career by the time she started these.

The supremes had been working for about 7 or 8 years when they did the R&H collection. they were also 22 or so when they did this.

so of course i'd expect Ella's to be a more mature interpretation of the tunes. no one would expect the Supremes [[mere 22 year olds) to be able to perform like a seasoned artist in her mid 40s. but in a way they did. the achievement they did as 22 year olds was the groundbreaking part of it. their vocals are far beyond the typical pop singers or young adults. their ability to harmonize, interpret lyric, etc. that's what makes this such a special album

True, one has to consider that. On the other hand take the case of Chet Baker. He was 25 when he recorded My funny Valentine. Before that he played trumpet only and had no singing experience or training whatsoever. But many think his recording of My Funny Valentine is a definitive recording of the song. He could barely sing, but he had a sound and his slight voice worked perfectly with the song as arranged on the Chet Baker sings album.

[kenneth]

True, one has to consider that. On the other hand take the case of Chet Baker. He was 25 when he recorded My funny Valentine. Before that he played trumpet only and had no singing experience or training whatsoever. But many think his recording of My Funny Valentine is a definitive recording of the song. He could barely sing, but he had a sound and his slight voice worked perfectly with the song as arranged on the Chet Baker sings album.

To me, his is the absolute best rendition of this great song! I think he expressed himself beautifully through his voice, as if his voice was another of his instruments. Haven't heard much beyond his most famous recordings, though I'd like to hear of him.

[RanRan79]

so Ran - play producer! which 12 tracks would you make into 1 album?

I would keep "This Can't Be Love", "Where or When", "My Heart Stood Still", and "Falling In Love With Love" and "Lover". The other seven tracks: "Manhattan", "Blue Room", "Spring Is Here", "There's A Small Hotel", "Bewitched", "I Didn't Know What Time It Was", "I Could Right A Book".

For some reason I'm wild about their "There's A Small Hotel". Their vocals, the band, I love it all.

[RanRan79]

True, one has to consider that. On the other hand take the case of Chet Baker. He was 25 when he recorded My funny Valentine. Before that he played trumpet only and had no singing experience or training whatsoever. But many think his recording of My Funny Valentine is a definitive recording of the song. He could barely sing, but he had a sound and his slight voice worked perfectly with the song as arranged on the Chet Baker sings album.

I'm unfamiliar with Chet Baker's work, at least by name, although I know his name but can't say I ever knew much of anything about him. I just looked up his version of "Valentine". The song is one of those songs that I just never care for, no matter who the singer is. I remember when people were wild about Chaka's version from Waiting To Exhale, which was my introduction to the song. I never did understand what the fuss was about. I've heard other versions, including the Supremes', and none of them do anything for me. I expected Chet's version to be another one that leaves me with a "meh" feeling. Good grief was I wrong! There's something about the almost plain-ness approach that he took, like someone doing work with his hands and singing a tune at the same time, except the tune really means something to him. Never thought there would be one, but Chet's version of "Valentine" is the only one I'll probably ever honestly like. Thanks for turning me onto him. I might check out his other vocal work.

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

@sup_fan,

I agree with your analysis. What a heady experience it must have been at such young ages to be sharing the stage or even sharing the song books of so many show biz legends. I can't even imagine what that must have seemed like to Diane, Florence and Mary. That they handled it as [[at least in the public eye) graciously as they did speaks volumes about their ability to transcend some of their personal differences for the sake of the ever growing fan base, in both the teenage as well as the supper club set.

I know I've told this story before, but I remember at a very young age my grandmother, a naturalized American citizen who learned English as a third language, saying to my mother, "I don't know why, but I just love those three girls!" whenever they were on TV. I can't say for sure, but I can believe it was their performances of some of the standards, such as the Rodgers and Hart tunes or the Copa selections which they often sang such as "You're Nobody Till Somebody Loves You" that helped her become such a fan of our girls.

I LOVE that story about your grandmother! It's really interesting, but I remember buying those Hullabaloo dvds and seeing The Supremes performing "You're Nobody Till Somebody Loves You" and just getting these amazing chills of electricity. That performance is my absolute favorite because they were looking young, vibrant and not at all as if they were just doing this "old folks music" because they were told to- they honestly looked as if they were BORN singing these standards. The best part that sent me over the edge was when the girls turned around and you got to see the audience behind them. I noticed the audience had a fair number of middle-aged White parents and probably grandparents. There was one fella who was one of those balding, very average-looking men who was probably an accountant or something- and yet all these people were INTO it! They weren't sitting with polite little smiles, these people were reacting- REACTING to these three young, Black girls from Detroit and the look and feeling was almost palpable through the television screen.

I just thought, WOW! There was/is no other group of young girls who could have made that non- rock and roll song ROCK with sheer electricity. There was/is no other group of young girls who could have charmed these suburban White audience members, and rocked them in the way The Supremes did. Reading your story about your grandmother, it just made me think of those people who probably returned home from the Hullabaloo show thinking- "There's just something about those three girls I really like! Honey, what was the name of that group? We've got to go get one of their albums!"

[kenneth]

@Waiting,

Thanks for that! I am afraid of boring everybody with my opinions at times, having been such a long time member of the forum I don’t want to repeat myself.

I think the performance you referred to of “You’re Nobody Till Somebody Loves You” is the one which I first realized how great that song was for the Supremes, and with what amazing verve they performed it. I remember the shot you described of when they show the audience cheering them on. It’s a very exciting clip.

My grandparents were the type of people who would go to New York and go to a jazz club, or places like the COPA, and come home and bring a few souvenirs, such as an ash tray or a cocktail stirrer or a program from a Broadway show which they’d saved for me. I always thought my grandmother was the most elegant lady because she had a little fox fur stole which came with the head and tail intact, and I remember the way it attached was snapping the head to the tail! I thought it was the height of class when I was 10 years old!

When I started listening to Motown, I never liked the standards or the Broadway albums, now they are the ones I play the most often. The six Supremes concept albums are among my very favorites. The only one I don’t like as much as the others is the Disney album, which I have on a bootleg. But it has some good tunes and some good singing. One that I never liked at all in the past which I’ve come to enjoy a lot is the Liverpool album.

When you think about the body of work that was recorded, it really is incredible the chances and risk Berry Gordy took with his favorite group.

[sup_fan]

i agree with everyone's assessment of You're Nobody. it really does show how the Supremes were just "different" True we've all stated how DR was unique from day 1. but M and F were also. that Hullabaloo performance was the best. while it might not have been as glitzy as future performances, it showed off the group at their best. they were so sincere with their excitement and pleasure. you got the feeling that even if they were singing to just 10 people, they'd be having just as good of a time.

[sup_fan]

@Waiting,

Thanks for that! I am afraid of boring everybody with my opinions at times, having been such a long time member of the forum I don’t want to repeat myself.

I think the performance you referred to of “You’re Nobody Till Somebody Loves You” is the one which I first realized how great that song was for the Supremes, and with what amazing verve they performed it. I remember the shot you described of when they show the audience cheering them on. It’s a very exciting clip.

My grandparents were the type of people who would go to New York and go to a jazz club, or places like the COPA, and come home and bring a few souvenirs, such as an ash tray or a cocktail stirrer or a program from a Broadway show which they’d saved for me. I always thought my grandmother was the most elegant lady because she had a little fox fur stole which came with the head and tail intact, and I remember the way it attached was snapping the head to the tail! I thought it was the height of class when I was 10 years old!

When I started listening to Motown, I never liked the standards or the Broadway albums, now they are the ones I play the most often. The six Supremes concept albums are among my very favorites. The only one I don’t like as much as the others is the Disney album, which I have on a bootleg. But it has some good tunes and some good singing. One that I never liked at all in the past which I’ve come to enjoy a lot is the Liverpool album.

When you think about the body of work that was recorded, it really is incredible the chances and risk Berry Gordy took with his favorite group.

haha i love the story of your gma and her fox. do you know how many times they saw the Supremes? did they ever get any of the albums - like sam cook or R&H?

[kenneth]

haha i love the story of your gma and her fox. do you know how many times they saw the Supremes? did they ever get any of the albums - like sam cook or R&H?

Thanks! I remember loving how the fox's teeth were the snap which attached to the tail to keep the stole in place. Seems so bizarre now to wear what appears to be a live animal around your neck!

I'm sorry, I didn't mean they had ever seen the Supremes at the Copa, but I know they went to the Copa sometimes on their visits to New York. I imagine they saw people like Sammy Davis, although I never got any Copa programs from them.

I remember my grandmother had some Dinah Washington albums in her collection - they had one of those big old stereo consoles - and they also liked Brook Benton, who Dinah sometimes sang with. But they never had any Motown albums. Of course I didn't care for those singers back then but I was maybe 7 or 8 years old at the time. Now I love those pop singers, such as Sammy Davis, and especially those who recorded for Capitol, such as Peggy Lee, Matt Monro, Sinatra and others.

[Spreadinglove21]

I'm unfamiliar with Chet Baker's work, at least by name, although I know his name but can't say I ever knew much of anything about him. I just looked up his version of "Valentine". The song is one of those songs that I just never care for, no matter who the singer is. I remember when people were wild about Chaka's version from Waiting To Exhale, which was my introduction to the song. I never did understand what the fuss was about. I've heard other versions, including the Supremes', and none of them do anything for me. I expected Chet's version to be another one that leaves me with a "meh" feeling. Good grief was I wrong! There's something about the almost plain-ness approach that he took, like someone doing work with his hands and singing a tune at the same time, except the tune really means something to him. Never thought there would be one, but Chet's version of "Valentine" is the only one I'll probably ever honestly like. Thanks for turning me onto him. I might check out his other vocal work.

Glad you enjoyed it. Definitely check out the album Chet Baker Sings. It's a mood!

Getting back on topic, Little Girl Blue and There's a Small Hotel are my favorite Diana Ross performances of Rodgers and Hart tunes, especially at the Stolen Moments show.

[kenneth]

Glad you enjoyed it. Definitely check out the album Chet Baker Sings. It's a mood!

Getting back on topic, Little Girl Blue and There's a Small Hotel are my favorite Diana Ross performances of Rodgers and Hart tunes, especially at the Stolen Moments show.

I think the quality that Chet Baker conveyed is the same one that Bing Crosby had done in an earlier era, it seemed as if he was right in the speaker singing just to you. I imagine that style was fairly new to Bing Crosby at the time, and I think I’ve read it had something to do with improvements in microphones and things like that that allowed the singers to sing in a more intimate way. I don’t know that Baker had a very wide range but he certainly had an effective sensual sounding voice. But there’s lots of people who can sing technically better than others… But only a few have the qualities that make you never forget them once you’ve heard them.

[Spreadinglove21]

I think the quality that Chet Baker conveyed is the same one that Bing Crosby had done in an earlier era, it seemed as if he was right in the speaker singing just to you. I imagine that style was fairly new to Bing Crosby at the time, and I think I’ve read it had something to do with improvements in microphones and things like that that allowed the singers to sing in a more intimate way. I don’t know that Baker had a very wide range but he certainly had an effective sensual sounding voice. But there’s lots of people who can sing technically better than others… But only a few have the qualities that make you never forget them once you’ve heard them.

On the matter of Bing Crosby, he was a multi media star and he was a very versatile vocalist as he sang many of the popular styles of his time. I wonder if Crosby's example was another influence on Berry Gordy pushed Diana Ross to sing in a variety of styles and to cross over to do TV specials and star in movies?

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

@Waiting,

Thanks for that! I am afraid of boring everybody with my opinions at times, having been such a long time member of the forum I don’t want to repeat myself.

I think the performance you referred to of “You’re Nobody Till Somebody Loves You” is the one which I first realized how great that song was for the Supremes, and with what amazing verve they performed it. I remember the shot you described of when they show the audience cheering them on. It’s a very exciting clip.

My grandparents were the type of people who would go to New York and go to a jazz club, or places like the COPA, and come home and bring a few souvenirs, such as an ash tray or a cocktail stirrer or a program from a Broadway show which they’d saved for me. I always thought my grandmother was the most elegant lady because she had a little fox fur stole which came with the head and tail intact, and I remember the way it attached was snapping the head to the tail! I thought it was the height of class when I was 10 years old!

When I started listening to Motown, I never liked the standards or the Broadway albums, now they are the ones I play the most often. The six Supremes concept albums are among my very favorites. The only one I don’t like as much as the others is the Disney album, which I have on a bootleg. But it has some good tunes and some good singing. One that I never liked at all in the past which I’ve come to enjoy a lot is the Liverpool album.

When you think about the body of work that was recorded, it really is incredible the chances and risk Berry Gordy took with his favorite group.

No way are your recollections boring. On YouTube, I'm always thanking people for comments just like this because it adds context and color to the times in which this music was happening. And even though I was born in '66, I know EXACTLY what you're talking about as far as those fox fur stoles and how you wore them. Yeah, I would have thought it was such a grown up, cool thing back then! Again, that kind of detail is mesmerizing to me because I absolutely love how people used to dress for everything back then. It was just such an adult, sophisticated time in life and I hate that I missed out on it.

I think our experiences are similar on some things. I too was NOT into standards and Broadway stuff. Not at all. It was actually Mary Wells' "My Guy" album, then the "Four Tops On Top" LP and the "Supremes Sing Rodgers & Hart" albums that opened my horizons in that regard. And I agree with you that Berry took that chance and it reaped huge dividends. Nobody back then probably would have expected that later generations would still be discovering this music and embracing it in a big way.

Again, great and enjoyable comments on your part

[kenneth]

@Waiting,

Thanks so much. You’re a gentleman as well as a scholar!

K

[lucky2012]

I think our experiences are similar on some things. I too was NOT into standards and Broadway stuff. Not at all. It was actually Mary Wells' "My Guy" album, then the "Four Tops On Top" LP and the "Supremes Sing Rodgers & Hart" albums that opened my horizons in that regard. And I agree with you that Berry took that chance and it reaped huge dividends. Nobody back then probably would have expected that later generations would still be discovering this music and embracing it in a big way.

The IHAS album introduced me to the standards/MOR music of my parents’ generation. I’m grateful to Motown for “expanding” my horizons”. I think only the Motown artists could really make me appreciate the “standards”.

My favorite Motown “standards” albums are Supremes Sing Rodgers & Hart, Temptations In A Mellow Mood and Mary Wells Sings My Guy. I play these quite often and they always put me in a good/better mood.

[Ollie9]

Hi Ollie. Hope you are well. I think i may have shared this story previously but here i go again. Diana very rarely spoke of her Supremes days for fear of being misquoted, but one particular day when i mentioned how much i loved the R&H album she began to talk about it and how much both she and Florence loved singing Manhattan. When it was left off the original album both she and Florence went to Berry and pleaded with him to include it on the album. Their pleas fell on deaf ears and Berry canned the track. It would appear that he agreed with your good self regarding the quality of it. As for me i agreed with Diana and Florence, but i do concede that Ella owned this song and hers will always be the definitive version. It's such an inspiring song. I do feel it was good enough for inclusion. Perhaps it should have been a double album as originally intended.

Cheers for sharing that story Mr B. Quality wise it was certainly worthy of a double album, although i think for the most part the correct songs were chosen.

[Ollie9]

completely agree that Diana's version on TMITM was amazing. she'd grown so by then and the tune is one of her masterpieces. so sure, it's better than the R&H version
. I find the tune fits her range a bit better than Valentine which makes her strain more for the notes. also M & F are barely featured on V. and i just like the tune better anyway

As regards “Valentine”, I think Diana is simply going for it as opposed to straining. I find it an emotive and nicely contained performance.
She was always at her best with a strong producer who encouraged her to let rip. A&S along with Masser being prime examples.
On occasion when Diana was indeed straining to hit notes, she often sounded better then ever. “All Of My Life” being at least one song that springs to mind.

[kenneth]

The IHAS album introduced me to the standards/MOR music of my parents’ generation. I’m grateful to Motown for “expanding” my horizons”. I think only the Motown artists could really make me appreciate the “standards”.

My favorite Motown “standards” albums are Supremes Sing Rodgers & Hart, Temptations In A Mellow Mood and Mary Wells Sings My Guy. I play these quite often and they always put me in a good/better mood.

I’ll have to listen to that Temptations album again. I’ve forgotten how good it is.

Marvin Gaye’s first two duet albums both include a number of standards as well. In fact, I would say they are lesser known standards than the ones you usually hear recorded. The Kim Weston album especially, has a number of songs which may or may not be standards but they seem to be written in the style of a standard also. Both albums are very good and I play them a lot more than I did when I was younger.

[SatansBlues]

Odd coincidence?

I just finished binge watching the Hulu show Only Murders In The Building starring Steve Martin, Martin Short and Selena Gomez. The show is set in NYC and at the end of the first season at the end of the episode what song starts to play? MANHATTAN. Not the Ella Fitzgerald version but the version by THE SUPREMES! I was absolutely floored to the point that I had to replay the ending twice just to hear Diana and Florence in all their glory! How random is that after this thread and discussion?

Side note: Sting, the musician also pops up in a couple of episodes. If you haven't seen the show it's worth a look, it's a little quirky, but a fun show.