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    ’In And Out Of Love’: Florence Ballard’s Final Supremes Session

    "On November 11, 1967, Diana and the Supremes hit the Hot 100 at a confident No.65 with their latest Holland-Dozier-Holland creation, “In And Out Of Love.” Written with the working title “Summer Good, Summer Bad,” its vocal session in June was a poignant farewell for Florence Ballard, at what became her last track date.

    Soon afterwards, she was summarily removed from the group and replaced by Cindy Birdsong. To add further insult, her vocals on the recording, and Mary Wilson’s, were then overdubbed for those of the Andantes."


    When it says that their voices were overdubbed, does that mean that they were removed or erased and replaced by the Andantes, or does it mean that their voices were supplemented or enhanced with the Andantes voices?

    https://www.yahoo.com/now/love-flore...085147241.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by milven View Post
    When it says that their voices were overdubbed, does that mean that they were removed or erased and replaced by the Andantes, or does it mean that their voices were supplemented or enhanced with the Andantes voices?
    The way that I take it is Florence & Mary's backing vocals on "In And Out Of Love" were added to by The Andantes. Since the notes don't say that Mary & Flo were removed from the record, that should mean that they're still on there.

  3. #3
    Overdubbing, per Wikipedia, is defined as "a technique used in audio recording in which audio tracks that have been pre-recorded are then played back and monitored, while simultaneously recording new, doubled, or augmented tracks onto one or more available tracks of a digital audio workstation or tape recorder."

    I suppose that was the case with the original background vocals by Mary and Flo for In And Out Of Love...they were overdubbed instead of being erased entirely. Personally, I've only ever heard the Andantes in the background of this recording, so I had always thought that Mary and Flo's vocals were erased entirely. Others say they faintly hear Mary and Flo, underneath of the Andantes [per the countless past discussions on this forum]. I believe this is one of those subjects that's never been completely confirmed one way or another, other than the fact that Mary and Flo did record background vocals for it, and so we are left to make our own conclusions with our own ears. It would be helpful to hear the isolated background track, which perhaps our gentlemen at Universal have already done.

    I know this has been one of those tracks that fans either love or hate. I have always loved it. The background vocals are perfect too.

    Still patiently waiting for that Reflections Expanded Edition...
    Last edited by carlo; 11-12-2022 at 10:32 AM.

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    PS: If Motown/UMe were still doing deluxe editions of The Supremes' albums, we could get an Expanded Version of Reflections featuring a remix of "In and Out Of Love" with Flo & Mary's backing vocals brought forward [and taking off The Andantes work on the song].

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    i'm guessing M and F are on the track along with the A's. this might actually be part of the problem, it's too heavy. In and Out is a bouncy song yet it's overloaded with thick heavy vocals. it just burdens down the track like a wet blanket. so aside from being a fan of the original trio, i think musically it was a bad idea to add the vocals

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motown Eddie View Post
    PS: If Motown/UMe were still doing deluxe editions of The Supremes' albums, we could get an Expanded Version of Reflections featuring a remix of "In and Out Of Love" with Flo & Mary's backing vocals brought forward [and taking off The Andantes work on the song].
    Exactly my first thought as well! I would buy an EE of Reflections just for this. Hell, I'd buy 2 or 3!

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    Going All The Way to True Love was recorded the same day. and the song is similar to In and Out but it only has DMF on the track. so you can approximate what the effect would have been to only have the girls on In

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Going All The Way to True Love was recorded the same day. and the song is similar to In and Out but it only has DMF on the track.
    Yes, exactly. The notes included in the book for the 50th Anniversary Singles release says that Mary and Flo recorded their vocals for In and Out of Love and It's Going All the Way on June 12 [lead vocal was recorded the same day]. It says that The Andantes were overdubbed on Mary and Flo's background track for In and Out of Love, the next day, on June 13.

    This would mean that there is no separate background track for In and Out, with only Mary and Flo's vocals. It's just the one track that exists, with The Andantes added over top of Mary and Flo.
    Last edited by carlo; 11-12-2022 at 10:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carlo View Post
    Yes exactly. The notes included in the book for the 50th Anniversary Singles release says that Mary and Flo recorded their vocals for In and Out of Love and It's Going All the Way on June 12 [lead vocal was recorded the same day]. It says that The Andantes were overdubbed on Mary and Flo's background track, the next day, on June 13.

    This would mean that there is no separate background track with only Mary and Flo's vocals for those two songs. It's just the one track that exists, with The Andantes added over top of Mary and Flo.
    It might be nice if there was a version of IN AND OUT OF LOVE similar to the version of STAY IN MY LONELY ARMS where you hear the Andantes throughout the track but right before the fade, all of the sudden the additional background vocals cut out and you only hear Mary and Cindy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    It might be nice if there was a version of IN AND OUT OF LOVE similar to the version of STAY IN MY LONELY ARMS where you hear the Andantes throughout the track but right before the fade, all of the sudden the additional background vocals cut out and you only hear Mary and Cindy.
    was the first time we got Stay In My Lonely Arms on the Reflections cd in the 90s? when they added this and All I Know? it's possible that in preparing the song for that release, Harry, George and whomever else was working on it, heard that extended fade and released what it was! it's wonderful that we have these guys that care as much about the group as we do working on these. similar to the story of George getting himself in trouble with the release Greatest Hits And Rare Classics. according to his posts here, the original idea was to include a lot of alt versions, unreleased songs, etc. but then the decree came down that it would just be a straight-forward 70s greatest hits. nothing else. and i think he said he had 24 hours to make all of the changes or else the release would be cut. he snuck on some things like the alt version of Everybody and then he did the different track lists on the cd vs the cassette. he's laughed that he got in major trouble with that lolol but thank god he did

    i love when they keep things like this for us to hear, or studio chatter, or extended fades or the versions where they bring out much more of the instrumental track

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    was the first time we got Stay In My Lonely Arms on the Reflections cd in the 90s? when they added this and All I Know?
    No. STAY IN MY LONELY ARMS was first released in 1986 on the compilation NEVER BEFORE RELEASED MASTERS FROM MOTOWN'S BRIGHTEST STARS THE 60s. To my knowledge, this collection was only released on vinyl although some [if not, all] of the songs have since made it to cd.

    The version on that album has an extra verse but fades out earlier than the version released on the REFLECTIONS cd. That's why it was such a surprise to me when I purchased the latter.
    Last edited by reese; 11-12-2022 at 11:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    No. STAY IN MY LONELY ARMS was first released in 1986 on the compilation NEVER BEFORE RELEASED MASTERS FROM MOTOWN'S BRIGHTEST STARS THE 60s. To my knowledge, this collection was only released on vinyl although some [if not, all] of the songs have since made it to cd.

    The version on that album has an extra verse but fades out earlier than the version released on the REFLECTIONS cd. That's why it was such a surprise to me when I purchased the latter.
    interesting! i don't have that lp. has the version of Stay from the lp been re-released on cd or digital? if not, that would be a nice addition to the Reflections album. Stay was originally recorded in Oct 67 and completed in Nov. so it's perfectly in the timeline for the Reflections album

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    interesting! i don't have that lp. has the version of Stay from the lp been re-released on cd or digital? if not, that would be a nice addition to the Reflections album. Stay was originally recorded in Oct 67 and completed in Nov. so it's perfectly in the timeline for the Reflections album
    I think someone posted that the version with the extra verse might have been released on cd, possibly on one of those Tower Records Motown samplers but don't quote me on that.

    STAY... is one of my favorite Supremes recordings but it does seem to go on and on with no bridge and no melody changes until the modulation near the end. I can see why they cut a verse if only to break the monotony. As much as I like the Elgins' original, theirs is similar except there's no modulation.
    Last edited by reese; 11-12-2022 at 12:49 PM.

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    i think Stay would have made an excellent album track on Reflections but definitely not a single. MAYBE as a b side.

    other tracks that would have been excellent on the album are A Little Breeze, Am I asking too much. or maybe Let The Music Play

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    Quote Originally Posted by carlo View Post
    Yes, exactly. The notes included in the book for the 50th Anniversary Singles release says that Mary and Flo recorded their vocals for In and Out of Love and It's Going All the Way on June 12 [lead vocal was recorded the same day]. It says that The Andantes were overdubbed on Mary and Flo's background track for In and Out of Love, the next day, on June 13.

    This would mean that there is no separate background track for In and Out, with only Mary and Flo's vocals. It's just the one track that exists, with The Andantes added over top of Mary and Flo.
    Well means that a remix of "In And Out Of Love" involving the vocal backgrounds is out of the question. We can always dream that an alternate take/mix of the song featuring just Flo & Mary on the backgrounds is in the Motown Vaults [like the alternate take of "Stop In The Name Of Love" which came out years ago].

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    I thought it was Mary and Marlene.

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    It is well known that there is a full Detroit version in the vaults of "In And Out Of Love" the version we got was actually the 4th version a mix of LA and Detroit .

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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    I thought it was Mary and Marlene.
    That was "Reflections."

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    Quote Originally Posted by mowsville View Post
    It is well known that there is a full Detroit version in the vaults of "In And Out Of Love" the version we got was actually the 4th version a mix of LA and Detroit .
    The Detroit version is what I'm waiting on. I'm just not clear on if that version is just a backing track or did it actually get vocals. I've always assumed that the Supremes cut a version with the Funks and then re-recorded a version with LA musicians, but I realize that's not necessarily the case, although I hope it is. A full Supremes/Funks version of "In and Out of Love" is pretty much the only thing I'm excited about with a Reflections EE, unless there are additional Flo cuts from that late period that we haven't been introduced to yet. And of course, if possible, I look forward to maybe having the Disney sessions in conjunction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carlo View Post

    I know this has been one of those tracks that fans either love or hate. I have always loved it. The background vocals are perfect too.
    I agree Carlo. I do like the backing vocals as is, but I would like to hear how they sound with just Flo and Mary. I don't think this was the right song to follow up "Reflections", but I really do love it. For me it's Diana's vocal. It might have been an otherwise passable song if not for her delivery, IMO.

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    I thought they found a version with just Florence and Mary but .. don't quote me.
    Hopefully we get an expanded edition ,hopefully next year.maybe.

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    Sounds like just the Andantes to me. It doesn't have that full Mary and Flo with the Andantes sound like how Stop! sounds. It does kinda sound like Mary and Flo on the "looking for love" parts.

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    I've always thought the harmonies were too smooth, angelic, to be Florence and Mary.

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