Beyond Bizarre: Adam Ant and special guest dancer Diana Ross

[bradsupremes]

So, no footage of Mary's speech?? How many other stars spoke as well that night, with those parts cut out?? Stevie speaks as does Marvin.
I'm wondering because why was this spoken part assigned to Mary, when already another Supreme, Diana Ross , had a good chunk of the dialogue that night?

Why wasn't it offered to other Motown alumni, say Levi Stubbs or Melvin Franklin? [and of course on answer might be maybe it was but they declined].


added: also when did Mary speak then ? early on, before the big reunion? that seems anticlimactic for her to appear before the Supremes finally coming out on stage.

Mary and Cindy were introduced together to speak on Motown songwriters/musicians. This was before the reunion took place. I'm not sure where its placement was in the show. Both she and Cindy wore black. Mary was wearing the dress she wore when she sang "Love Talk" on The Black Stage.

[Boogiedown]

Mary and Cindy were introduced together to speak on Motown songwriters/musicians. This was before the reunion took place. I'm not sure where its placement was in the show. Both she and Cindy wore black. Mary was wearing the dress she wore when she sang "Love Talk" on The Black Stage.

Sounds good, the two of them together like this.
….. so Cindy spoke as well .
Interesting.
For them to be dressed similarly suggests some forethought between these two .

[jim aka jtigre99]

Mary and Cindy were introduced together to speak on Motown songwriters/musicians. This was before the reunion took place. I'm not sure where its placement was in the show. Both she and Cindy wore black. Mary was wearing the dress she wore when she sang "Love Talk" on The Black Stage.

Very interesting. I always wondered why the speech has never seen the light of day. Mary always did speak quite well and was quite good at being off the cuff. Interesting that both Mary and Cindy wore black since so much is made that Mary wore red for the reunion. It means both Cindy and Mary changed clothes for the reunion. It would seem to me, that Mary was not premeditating that much as both must have had a few outfits to wear on the show. To reference Randy, they were the big reunion but both were told they could not see Miss Ross or any of the bigger stars backstage before the show. They also had Cindy with Mary Wells sharing a dressing room and not Mary Wilson. It seems they were treated in quite a degrading manner for 2 people who were part of the big reunion and finale. It reminds me of the Oprah show were Miss Ross says Cindy was never an official Supreme, although she was.Yet, Miss Ross then toured with 2 former Supremes who were not known as well to the general public rather than Cindy and Mary. I just think if they were treated with dignity in both Motown 25 and RTL, we would have a different story.

[Boogiedown]

How beyond bizarre that Cindy and Mary were given directives to stay away from miss Ross before their permitted time.

what a fake heartless reunion.

[jobeterob]

Very interesting. I always wondered why the speech has never seen the light of day. Mary always did speak quite well and was quite good at being off the cuff. Interesting that both Mary and Cindy wore black since so much is made that Mary wore red for the reunion. It means both Cindy and Mary changed clothes for the reunion. It would seem to me, that Mary was not premeditating that much as both must have had a few outfits to wear on the show. To reference Randy, they were the big reunion but both were told they could not see Miss Ross or any of the bigger stars backstage before the show. They also had Cindy with Mary Wells sharing a dressing room and not Mary Wilson. It seems they were treated in quite a degrading manner for 2 people who were part of the big reunion and finale. It reminds me of the Oprah show were Miss Ross says Cindy was never an official Supreme, although she was.Yet, Miss Ross then toured with 2 former Supremes who were not known as well to the general public rather than Cindy and Mary. I just think if they were treated with dignity in both Motown 25 and RTL, we would have a different story.

I think the point about Cindy is that she was an employed Supreme not getting royalties but getting a salary.

[bradsupremes]

I think the point about Cindy is that she was an employed Supreme not getting royalties but getting a salary.

When she started she was salary, but she eventually received royalties. She would later sign away her royalties during a period of her life when she was struggling financially and needed money.

[floyjoy678]

I think Diana just always considered herself, Mary and Florence as the true Supremes. Mary has alluded to this as well.

[sup_fan]

I think Diana just always considered herself, Mary and Florence as the true Supremes. Mary has alluded to this as well.

i would definitely assume that the original lineup holds a very special place in both Diana and mary's hearts. mary has been very forthright with this while diana has been a bit more reserved. but i think both feel strongly about the importance of the original hit making lineup

that said, diana has always been very supportive of the subsequent members. I think the comment on Oprah was more of just an interview answer. this was in 93 or so and there was still some controversy around Dreamgirls - both the book and the broadway show. so i've always just assumed this was Diana sort of rambling a little and trying to make a good answer on the fly, versus a long-held opinion.

during the 70s, diana was quite supportive of the group. of course she had her own significant career issues to contend with and family and marriage and all of that. but she would attend the shows, speak highly of the group, be quite supportive. she was also wanting to be deferential to Mary, who was leading the group. Diana didn't want to interfere or draw attention away from whatever mary was attempting to do.

[Boogiedown]

What would have been the good ambassadors reason for limiting access to her from her co-Supreme Cindy Birdsong at the wingding ??

[sup_fan]

there were a LOT of performers on the program. all of the dancers, young stars in High Energy. plus stage hands, musicians, people doing this and that. although it does sound rather imperious of an order, it was probably done to prevent the typical star-gazing and all. a few dancers coming to Diana's dressing room asking for autographs, musicians trying to track down Marvin and given his a "sure fire hit" song they'd written, etc.

I don't know that it was really intended to keep "the motown family" apart. but it was probably too hard to coordinate having some in, some out.

[Boogiedown]

makes sense, all your reasons. And a Chaotic situation not needing to be exasperated by noisy chatter of excited friends gathering about. There was a need to stay focused. Nonetheless, wasn't Diana the least bit interested in seeing her ol' chum? When was the last time they had been together? If nothing else to wish her to "break a leg". Apparently Cindy wasn't in the same dressing room as Mary.

Did Berry, [[[or anybody]]] throw an after party? I wonder how this event wound up being in Pasadena?? ...... Cheap!?? lol!!

[TheMotownManiac]

there were a LOT of performers on the program. all of the dancers, young stars in High Energy. plus stage hands, musicians, people doing this and that. although it does sound rather imperious of an order, it was probably done to prevent the typical star-gazing and all. a few dancers coming to Diana's dressing room asking for autographs, musicians trying to track down Marvin and given his a "sure fire hit" song they'd written, etc.

I don't know that it was really intended to keep "the motown family" apart. but it was probably too hard to coordinate having some in, some out.

I can’t imagine that they were trying to keep Mary and Cindy away from Marvin Stevie and Diana, but didn’t quite see the ramifications of the directive. And I could see how that would make Mary and Cindy feel. I understand that maybe Diana didn’t want anybody to visit her because she was sick and she was not at the performance standards by any stretch of the imagination. She looked and sounded so bad and so weak that I wonder if, I had this been just a concert of hers, she would’ve canceled. I can’t imagine her doing an hour and 45 minutes in that shape But even with that said, I wonder if she was aware that Mary and Cindy were banned, and absolutely absurd idea considering they were all equals for years.

[reese]

makes sense, all your reasons. And a Chaotic situation not needing to be exasperated by noisy chatter of excited friends gathering about. There was a need to stay focused. Nonetheless, wasn't Diana the least bit interested in seeing her ol' chum? When was the last time they had been together? If nothing else to wish her to "break a leg". Apparently Cindy wasn't in the same dressing room as Mary.

Did Berry, [[[or anybody]]] throw an after party? I wonder how this event wound up being in Pasadena?? ...... Cheap!?? lol!!

According to J Randy's CALL HER MISS ROSS, Cindy was initially shown to a dressing room to be shared with Mary Wells. Obviously, this was a mistake and it was arranged that Mary and Cindy have a room together.

After the taping, I believe there was a party at a mall across the street.

[Spreadinglove21]

Maybe people were forbidden from seeing Diana Ross before the show backstage to protect them from the wrath of Miss Ross rather than protecting Miss Ross from everyone else?

[Ollie9]

Very interesting. I always wondered why the speech has never seen the light of day. Mary always did speak quite well and was quite good at being off the cuff. Interesting that both Mary and Cindy wore black since so much is made that Mary wore red for the reunion. It means both Cindy and Mary changed clothes for the reunion. It would seem to me, that Mary was not premeditating that much as both must have had a few outfits to wear on the show. To reference Randy, they were the big reunion but both were told they could not see Miss Ross or any of the bigger stars backstage before the show. They also had Cindy with Mary Wells sharing a dressing room and not Mary Wilson. It seems they were treated in quite a degrading manner for 2 people who were part of the big reunion and finale. It reminds me of the Oprah show were Miss Ross says Cindy was never an official Supreme, although she was.Yet, Miss Ross then toured with 2 former Supremes who were not known as well to the general public rather than Cindy and Mary. I just think if they were treated with dignity in both Motown 25 and RTL, we would have a different story.

Interesting info Jim. My goodness, no wonder there was so much resentment.

[Boogiedown]

According to J Randy's CALL HER MISS ROSS, Cindy was initially shown to a dressing room to be shared with Mary Wells. Obviously, this was a mistake and it was arranged that Mary and Cindy have a room together.

After the taping, I believe there was a party at a mall across the street.

I'm trying to imagine enough dressing rooms to accommodate all these artists! Who shared space with who??



Boy the stage effects were pretty bleak ....trying to be industrial as in Motortown? Or maybe industrial was the look around '83.
Nonetheless no special setting was created as a backdrop for the night's climax , THE reunion of THE Supremes ??

Heck Adam Ant got special staging ......as awful as it was ....

[sup_fan]

I'm trying to imagine enough dressing rooms to accommodate all these artists! Who shared space with who??



Boy the stage effects were pretty bleak ....trying to be industrial as in Motortown? Or maybe industrial was the look around '83.
Nonetheless no special setting was created as a backdrop for the night's climax , THE reunion of THE Supremes ??

Heck Adam Ant got special staging ......as awful as it was ....

but diana got the entrance, coming in from the back of the auditorium

[Boogiedown]

but diana got the entrance, coming in from the back of the auditorium

And Adam got the revolving stage.

hmmm maybe they could’ve had Cindy and Mary swing out to Diana on ropes from opposite ends of the stage !!

[vgalindo]

I can’t imagine that they were trying to keep Mary and Cindy away from Marvin Stevie and Diana, but didn’t quite see the ramifications of the directive. And I could see how that would make Mary and Cindy feel. I understand that maybe Diana didn’t want anybody to visit her because she was sick and she was not at the performance standards by any stretch of the imagination. She looked and sounded so bad and so weak that I wonder if, I had this been just a concert of hers, she would’ve canceled. I can’t imagine her doing an hour and 45 minutes in that shape But even with that said, I wonder if she was aware that Mary and Cindy were banned, and absolutely absurd idea considering they were all equals for years.

This is the first time I heard that Diana looked so bad. I thought she looked beautiful! And so did everyone I knew at that time. They all marveled on how beautiful she looked. Now I agree her vocals were not the best. But still sounded nice. IMO.

[bradsupremes]

This is the first time I heard that Diana looked so bad. I thought she looked beautiful! And so did everyone I knew at that time. They all marveled on how beautiful she looked. Now I agree her vocals were not the best. But still sounded nice. IMO.

She had lipstick on her teeth, her tongue was bright red, and she looked tired. Compare this to what she looked like at her Central Park concert. It’s night and day.

[TheMotownManiac]

New to the forum, are we?

All of us Supremes fanatics have our biases, I believe. It may come as a shock to you all, but I love Florence Ballard. I'm a huge fan, in case you never noticed. When discussing her, I do try my best to write about her in a way that doesn't allow any bias I might have to blind me to the reality of whatever the topic happens to be. I like to think I do a pretty good job of that. [[And I'd love feedback from anyone who thinks I'm not doing a good job of that, so I can make a better effort.) Now I singled out Florence, but the same can be said for Diana and Jean, to one extent or another. I like to be able to point out their positives in one post and be equally able at pointing out their negatives in another.

Unfortunately everybody aint like me. Admittedly, I bristle at comments that make it seem like anything Mary did that night was almost criminal yet not a sound about Diana getting physical. I don't care if Mary went out on that stage and pussy popped on a handstand. It still wouldn't have been as disgusting as Diana putting her hands on Mary. I don't care whether it was a shove, a push, a kick, or a punch, Diana was turning 40, old enough to know how to handle her emotions.

Mary went off script for a speech and she supposedly changed the agreed upon gown color [[has this ever been confirmed or is this fan fodder?). And yet she was still allowed to step on stage for the Supremes reunion. Diana Ross pushed Mary Wilson and the reunion was effectively over. Mary wasn't the problem that night, Diana was. Mary might have had some coke and liquor, who knows? But lets say she did have something for her nose and throat. The drunk druggie didn't put her hands on anyone that night, the sober diva did. To excuse Diana's behavior that night is just further proof that she could shoot someone in the middle of fifth avenue...and well, y'all know the rest.

Except Diana didn’t push her, or shove her or manhandle her. And she would’ve been wrong to do so, certainly. You’re mistaking Mary for someone who tells the truth again.

Here’s some information I got from Cindy, but not enough:

it was apparent to both of them that Diana was sick.

it was Suzanne who decided they would skip the medley. There wasn’t time to rehearse it, and that may be Diana‘s fault for being late, but Cindy didn’t say that per se. I don’t understand what the big deal is anyway they could’ve held the doors another 10 minutes to rehearse the medley if that’s the problem. It may be she just didn’t have it in her.

I don’t think people are giving Cindy a pass necessarily, she’s a sweet girl but never the sharpest knife in the drawer.

At Motown 25 Mary told Cindy to do what she did or she would be left behind because Mary was going to fake the sound check at her voice was a lot louder than Cindy‘s anyway. Mary would’ve buried her alive vocally if Cindy had not faked it as well. Ditto the staging but she wasn’t happy about it. You notice Cindy never had a bad word to say about Diana at Motown 25.

RTL Mary told Cindy that Diana was getting 20 million, and that they would have a stronger fight for a bigger piece of the pie if they were together. With that figure, Mary would be getting 5% of Diana‘s pay and Cindy would be getting 2 1/2%. That would seem unfair to anyone. When things got ugly, publicly, and Cindy found out Diana was not making $20 million she was angry with Mary and wanted to join the tour without her. She did not know if that information got to Diana or not. Cindy was horrified at all the publicity and fighting. She got things straightened out with Diana but not until after the tour.

I noticed that Cindy seemed, a little fuzzy but it didn’t really don on me that she had Alzheimer’s. The last few times I spoke with her, she was very angry at Mary over Motown 45 and did not want to discuss her. I hope they publish her book at some point. Cindy told me she told everything, but in a nice way.

By the way, I know that both Diana and Scherrie continue to keep up with Cindy - and I know that Mary was but I’m not sure about the last couple years. We just never talked about it.

[Ollie9]

Except Diana didn’t push her, or shove her or manhandle her. And she would’ve been wrong to do so, certainly. You’re mistaking Mary for someone who tells the truth again.

In a nutshell, that’s simply not the truth. Many moons ago i happened to meet a friend of my ex partners who had attended Motown 25. He was something to do with the music industry though i really can’t remember in what capacity.
He specifically told me that when Mary asked BG to come on down, Diana pushed Mary’s arm downwards drawing a gasp from the audience. I would have loved to have asked him more, but we were interrupted and he left shortly after.
This incident aside, media reports of the night specifically claim that Diana had at least put her hands on Mary to either push or gently guide Mary back to her mark when she and Cindy matched Diana in continuing to walk forwards.
For me personally it’s no big deal being the incident was 39 years ago. Having said that, you can’t simply rewrite history no matter how big a Diana fan one is.
As regards RTL, both women can claim a portion of the blame, not just Mary.

[marybrewster]

If we're to believe that Cindy jumped off a bridge every time Mary told her to, then Cindy is a doorknob. Love her tremendously, but did the woman have a pea for a brain?

It's bothersome that Cindy was ready to get back on the RTL train, but wasn't sure if that information ever got to Diana. Was Diana that unreachable that she and Cindy weren't able to talk? Does this suggest that Cindy and Diana NEVER talked re: RTL?

You'd think that out of spite, Diana would have made sure Cindy was on that tour. And I question if it would have been a bigger success if it were Cindy and Scherrie, instead of Scherrie and Lynda.

[sup_fan]

i think we can all agree that there was physical contact 2 times between D and M on stage. the debate is just how forceful it was. some fans and people compare it to Diana using so much force that Mary practically trips over her mic cord with her arm being severely bruised. others have stated it was more of a lite touch

Suzanne DePasse was also there and there's some interview or something that's been around where she discusses it. true, suzanne might be biased too in this situation. her interpretation was that lighter version

[Boogiedown]

If we're to believe that Cindy jumped off a bridge every time Mary told her to, then Cindy is a doorknob. Love her tremendously, but did the woman have a pea for a brain?

It's bothersome that Cindy was ready to get back on the RTL train, but wasn't sure if that information ever got to Diana. Was Diana that unreachable that she and Cindy weren't able to talk? Does this suggest that Cindy and Diana NEVER talked re: RTL?

You'd think that out of spite, Diana would have made sure Cindy was on that tour. And I question if it would have been a bigger success if it were Cindy and Scherrie, instead of Scherrie and Lynda.

I'm thinking along these same lines. That these three women were unable to communicate/plan/have lunch is ........beyond bizarre.......ya you saw that one coming....


But really the pettiness, the incompetence, the shortsightedness, reflects a shallowness of all three involved.

And you're right a clever Diana would've snatched a willing Cindy out of the evil clutches of Mary Wilson , both because it would've added credence to the notion of an honest reunion, and most satisfying of all , it would've royally frosted Mary.

[Ollie9]

i think we can all agree that there was physical contact 2 times between D and M on stage. the debate is just how forceful it was. some fans and people compare it to Diana using so much force that Mary practically trips over her mic cord with her arm being severely bruised. others have stated it was more of a lite touch

Suzanne DePasse was also there and there's some interview or something that's been around where she discusses it. true, suzanne might be biased too in this situation. her interpretation was that lighter version

I don't think the level of force used makes it any more acceptable. Whatever Diana did or didn’t do, it was enough to draw a collective gasp from the audience that night, She might not have got off so lightly had it been Flo.

[Boogiedown]

That they edited it out says it all.

[reese]

If we're to believe that Cindy jumped off a bridge every time Mary told her to, then Cindy is a doorknob. Love her tremendously, but did the woman have a pea for a brain?

It's bothersome that Cindy was ready to get back on the RTL train, but wasn't sure if that information ever got to Diana. Was Diana that unreachable that she and Cindy weren't able to talk? Does this suggest that Cindy and Diana NEVER talked re: RTL?

You'd think that out of spite, Diana would have made sure Cindy was on that tour. And I question if it would have been a bigger success if it were Cindy and Scherrie, instead of Scherrie and Lynda.

Once RTL started showing signs of trouble, I do remember a brief story in USA TODAY. Cindy said that she had sent a message to Diana to tell her that DMC should get together and "give the people what they want." But she hadn't yet heard back from Diana. Maybe by then it was too late.

[Boogiedown]

Sent a message? How, by carrier pigeon? Jeesh pick up your dam phone and call the lady.

this ain’t that hard.

[Bluebrock]

Sent a message? How, by carrier pigeon? Jeesh pick up your dam phone and call the lady.

this ain’t that hard.

It is easier said than done getting hold of Diana Ross. You would probably have more chance of gaining an audience with the Pope than reaching Ms Ross on the phone. I'm sure Cindy did her level best to make contact, but she would have had her work cut out to reach her. If only life were that simple.....

[Spreadinglove21]

It is easier said than done getting hold of Diana Ross. You would probably have more chance of gaining an audience with the Pope than reaching Ms Ross on the phone. I'm sure Cindy did her level best to make contact, but she would have had her work cut out to reach her. If only life were that simple.....

Welcome back!

[Ollie9]

It is easier said than done getting hold of Diana Ross. You would probably have more chance of gaining an audience with the Pope than reaching Ms Ross on the phone. I'm sure Cindy did her level best to make contact, but she would have had her work cut out to reach her. If only life were that simple.....

Nice to see your name back Mr B. Hope all is well with you and yours. “Everything’s As If You Never Said Goodbye”.

[lucky2012]

It is easier said than done getting hold of Diana Ross. You would probably have more chance of gaining an audience with the Pope than reaching Ms Ross on the phone. I'm sure Cindy did her level best to make contact, but she would have had her work cut out to reach her. If only life were that simple.....

Welcome back! Missed you much!