Beyond Bizarre: Adam Ant and special guest dancer Diana Ross

[Boogiedown]

Someone on a thread made mention of this so I finally got around to looking it up. Most bizarre at so many levels .......




Has it ever been adequately explained ? Has Diana ever been asked about it?

[BayouMotownMan]

Someone on a thread made mention of this so I finally got around to looking it up. Most bizarre at so many levels .......




Has it ever been adequately explained ? Has Diana ever been asked about it?

Supposedly, I have heard that the Supremes reunion was immediately after this at which time Diana was to call everyone on stage for the finale. Artists were gathering backstage for this part of the show and Ross was about to go to the back of the theatre for her dramatic entrance. If you watch the Ant performance it brought the energy of the show way down. The audience had been up and dancing to all the earlier performances but if you look at the audience in this clip they are stoned cold toward Ant, and it was said Suzanne dePasse was backstage panicking on how to cut this short. Ross knew her segment was next so she took it upon herself to go onstage and do a bump and grind to Ant doing her big song. The audience did finally show some enthusiasm and most felt this was a planned performance. Many felt Ross's behavior was unprofessional but she was really trying to help Adam Ant salvage his segment. It depends on how you want to interpret this. In any event, it was the one spot in the show that dePasse had messed up on; Ant had no business there. The whole segment should have been cut but Adam Ant was a hot act at the time.

[Roberta75]

He may have been hot at the time but his performance and dancing are just real bad. Sorry but he should have been cut from the show before it aired.

[bradsupremes]

Supposedly, I have heard that the Supremes reunion was immediately after this at which time Diana was to call everyone on stage for the finale. Artists were gathering backstage for this part of the show and Ross was about to go to the back of the theatre for her dramatic entrance. If you watch the Ant performance it brought the energy of the show way down. The audience had been up and dancing to all the earlier performances but if you look at the audience in this clip they are stoned cold toward Ant, and it was said Suzanne dePasse was backstage panicking on how to cut this short. Ross knew her segment was next so she took it upon herself to go onstage and do a bump and grind to Ant doing her big song. The audience did finally show some enthusiasm and most felt this was a planned performance. Many felt Ross's behavior was unprofessional but she was really trying to help Adam Ant salvage his segment. It depends on how you want to interpret this. In any event, it was the one spot in the show that dePasse had messed up on; Ant had no business there. The whole segment should have been cut but Adam Ant was a hot act at the time.

That story doesn’t really seem to add up though. Diana appears onstage within a minute of him beginning to perform. Was Suzanne really panicking that much within a minute of him starting to cut him short? I can understand a few minutes onstage and things not jiving but you can hear the crowd screaming at points for him before Diana appears. Plus the show was being taped, if it was as bad as Suzanne thought why not just let it play out and cut it from broadcast. It’s not like his appearance was going to be an even bigger draw for ratings. People tuning in were wanting to see the Motown acts and reunions. Whether his performance was an energy drainer or not, it was unprofessional on Diana’s part. It was not her place to help him if we are believe that’s why she went out there.

[BobbyC]

I forgot how wretched this performance by Adam Ant was! He can't sing, and what's with the spazz-tastic "dancing?" If I'd have been DR, I wouldn't have gone near this train wreck.

[Ollie9]

Adam Ants lacklustre performance was definitely the low point of the show. I remember reading that De passé was horrified when Diana told her she was going out there and begged her not to.
Owing to Ant’s less the stellar performance, i personally never had a problem with Diana cutting in to strut her stuff. Having said that, she was a bit out of control that night, naughty girl that she is.

[Boogiedown]

He may have been hot at the time but his performance and dancing are just real bad. Sorry but he should have been cut from the show before it aired.

And even at this, was he that hot?? In the UK yes, but this is a show that is celebrating an American music phenomena. Adam had one US hit at the time GOODY TWO SHOES , and even it fell short of the Top 10. Adam would not get back into the Top 40 for eight years , with a song that was but a modest hit. Hardly 'hot'.

In the youtube comments someone says Michael Jackson was into Ant and it was he who wanted/insisted Ant be on the show. I can see some intimation by Michael in his fashion following this.

Having Jose Feliciano proceed Adam Ant didn't help either. That already lowered the intensity and purpose of the evening.

Now, had Ant a #1 US song that was a cover of WHERE DID OUR LOVE GO, maybe that would have made sense. As it was, this embarrassing, from out of nowhere, cover was wisely not released as a single. [Did they try to get Soft Cell? and settled for Adam?]

[BobbyC]

All I can say is that weed must have been really strong back then--what else could explain Adam Ant and Jose appearing?

[Boogiedown]

All I can say is that weed must have been really strong back then--what else could explain Adam Ant and Jose appearing?

Ants eyes suggest something other than weed was going around that night.

[bradsupremes]

And even at this, was he that hot?? In the UK yes, but this is a show that is celebrating an American music phenomena. Adam had one US hit at the time GOODY TWO SHOES , and even it fell short of the Top 10. Adam would not get back into the Top 40 for eight years , with a song that was but a modest hit. Hardly 'hot'.

In the youtube comments someone says Michael Jackson was into Ant and it was he who wanted/insisted Ant be on the show. I can see some intimation by Michael in his fashion following this.

Having Jose Feliciano proceed Adam Ant didn't help either. That already lowered the intensity and purpose of the evening.

Now, had Ant a #1 US song that was a cover of WHERE DID OUR LOVE GO, maybe that would have made sense. As it was, this embarrassing, from out of nowhere, cover was wisely not released as a single. [Did they try to get Soft Cell? and settled for Adam?]

ThatÂ’s exactly it. Look at Michael Jackson at this time. He was white hot! Michael alone was going to draw in youth for viewership. What was Adam Ant going to draw in? More? Not likely. It was a mistake all around having him and his segment could have gone to Martha to do a full song or having the Spinners, Gladys or others to have a part.

[reese]

All I can say is that weed must have been really strong back then--what else could explain Adam Ant and Jose appearing?

I thought Jose's performance of LONELY TEARDROPS was pretty good. Besides, he was a Motown artist at the time.

[BobbyC]

Oh yeah--I forgot about that!

[PeaceNHarmony]

Not only not beyond bizarre, but not even bizarre. Ant was on the bill because, like it or not, he was a purveyor of Motown to a new generation. Diana joined in out of enthusiasm. I do recall water-cooler talk the next day about how great she looked and how much fun the segment was. Next?

[Spreadinglove21]

Adam was a good looking guy. Maybe Diana got horny watching him so went out on stage to signal to him to meet up with her after the show so they could fuck?

[Boogiedown]

Not only not beyond bizarre, but not even bizarre. Ant was on the bill because, like it or not, he was a purveyor of Motown to a new generation. Diana joined in out of enthusiasm. I do recall water-cooler talk the next day about how great she looked and how much fun the segment was. Next?

It's beyond bizarre that you would equate the shtick of Adam Ant as somehow making him a 'purveyor of Motown'.

[Motown Eddie]

Not only not beyond bizarre, but not even bizarre. Ant was on the bill because, like it or not, he was a purveyor of Motown to a new generation. Diana joined in out of enthusiasm. I do recall water-cooler talk the next day about how great she looked and how much fun the segment was. Next?

Adam Ant was never a purveyor of Motown, however, he was a purveyor of '80s New Wave music. Remember the group Soft Cell who had a major hit in 1982 with their remake of "Tainted Love" [which in it's 12 inch version was coupled with their take on The Supremes' "Where Did Our Love Go"]? Well that's what the producers of Motown 25 were aiming at when they asked Adam Ant to be on the show. Also, NBC wanted M25 to have more white artists [like Adam Ant] on the show to insure they would get higher ratings.

[Ollie9]

Ant was probably included to ensnare young white viewers, supposedly thinking the Motown vets lacked hipness. Given that he was a much bigger star in the UK, it was still a head scratching decision.
Nelson George mentions in his book ‘Where Did Our Love Go’ that Diana was on edge all evening, keeping a regal distance from the other performers backstage.
Perhaps this breach of professional etiquette was a way of helping her to let go of tension. Who knows??.
It was still no excuse for what was to follow during the aborted Supremes segment.

[Motown Eddie]

Now, had Ant a #1 US song that was a cover of WHERE DID OUR LOVE GO, maybe that would have made sense. As it was, this embarrassing, from out of nowhere, cover was wisely not released as a single. [Did they try to get Soft Cell? and settled for Adam?]

Adam Ant didn't have a hit with "Where Did Our Love Go" since he never recorded the song. The artist who did have the hit was Soft Cell; it was featured as the B-side of their hit "Tainted Love" and was part of a medley with "Tainted Love" on the 12 inch single of the song. We'll never know if the producers of Motown 25 tried to get Soft Cell on the show instead of Adam.

[floyjoy678]

Adam was a good looking guy. Maybe Diana got horny watching him so went out on stage to signal to him to meet up with her after the show so they could fuck?

I just spit my coffee out! I will say Adam Ant has gorgeous eyes.

From most of the accounts I've read, Diana was not on her best behavior that night. Youse can try and spin it all youse want but this was one of the lows of her career.

[Boogiedown]

Adam Ant was never a purveyor of Motown, however, he was a purveyor of '80s New Wave music. Remember the group Soft Cell who had a major hit in 1982 with their remake of "Tainted Love" [which in it's 12 inch version was coupled with their take on The Supremes' "Where Did Our Love Go"]? Well that's what the producers of Motown 25 were aiming at when they asked Adam Ant to be on the show. Also, NBC wanted M25 to have more white artists [like Adam Ant] on the show to insure they would get higher ratings.

If anyone was the "purveyor of Motown to a new generation" at this time it would've been Rick James. And the audience wouldn't have fallen asleep with a performance by him. Can you imagine Diana crashing James' appearance like that!? If she'd shaken her ass luridly at him that way , Rick wouldn't have stood there like a lost puppy. He'd have swooped her up and milked it for all it was worth. She'd probably have to escape ! lol!

I wonder if part of the scheme was to gain an interest in a UK airing of the show by including Adam? [was it aired there?]. Or at least feature Ant as an extra draw in some sort of packaging of the show to sell there??

[jobeterob]

The whole thing could easily have been cut - lots of other things were.

Didn't they shorten and nearly cut the Supremes on Motown 40?

I think this is one of those things fans make much of but really was nothing that significant. It might have been kinda fun so they left it in.

And Adam Ant is simply a footnote.

What occurred afterward was sad for anybody Supreme and any fans.

[captainjames]

A couple things regarding Adam Ant's performance was he was in pain that night because of a recent surgery to his knee I believe. Also, I think Michael Jackson may have been the one to ask him to perform that night. Although, Adam Ant was not a Motown artist nor had he ever recorded any Motown songs before, it was odd that he picked WDOLG as his performance. The part I am not sure about is Diana being coaxed to go out there and help him or go out there show him up. Actually, she saved what little was left of that performance because if you go back and watch it you will hear the audience wake up as she is shown on stage. However, her performance was suppose to be a surprise that night and she sort of ruined the surprise by jumping on stage before the reunion of the Supremes. Also, in Adam's performance he keeps looking stage left hoping Diana would come back but she doesn't.

[jobeterob]

A couple things regarding Adam Ant's performance was he was in pain that night because of a recent surgery to his knee I believe. Also, I think Michael Jackson may have been the one to ask him to perform that night. Although, Adam Ant was not a Motown artist nor had he ever recorded any Motown songs before, it was odd that he picked WDOLG as his performance. The part I am not sure about is Diana being coaxed to go out there and help him or go out there show him up. Actually, she saved what little was left of that performance because if you go back and watch it you will hear the audience wake up as she is shown on stage. However, her performance was suppose to be a surprise that night and she sort of ruined the surprise by jumping on stage before the reunion of the Supremes. Also, in Adam's performance he keeps looking stage left hoping Diana would come back but she doesn't.

Despite all the expert opinion, it makes sense that it was all staged. If it wasn’t and the performance was substandard, why leave it in?

[jim aka jtigre99]

I think Motown was looking to draw a bit of a younger audience, the British NuWave was kind of growing at that time. Adam Ant was the wrong artist singing the wrong song. There were plenty of artists that were Motown influenced in British NuWave but he wasn't one of them. He wasn't exciting the audience as you can see. Diana Ross coming on the stage while another artist was performing without any agreed upon rehearsal etc. was unprofessional. Granted she probably wanted to bring some enthusiasm to someone performing the Supremes first #1. All in all, the producers should have just cut that segment like they did Mary Wilson's speech or many other things that probably didn't make that broadcast.

[Motown Eddie]

If anyone was the "purveyor of Motown to a new generation" at this time it would've been Rick James. And the audience wouldn't have fallen asleep with a performance by him. Can you imagine Diana crashing James' appearance like that!? If she'd shaken her ass luridly at him that way , Rick wouldn't have stood there like a lost puppy. He'd have swooped her up and milked it for all it was worth. She'd probably have to escape ! lol!

I wonder if part of the scheme was to gain an interest in a UK airing of the show by including Adam? [was it aired there?]. Or at least feature Ant as an extra draw in some sort of packaging of the show to sell there??

Good points about Rick James. And a question I've always had about M25; why wasn't Rick on the show? He was one of the biggest artists on Motown at that time and all they had of him on the show was a 30 second clip.

[Roberta75]

Adam was a good looking guy. Maybe Diana got horny watching him so went out on stage to signal to him to meet up with her after the show so they could fuck?

Thats rather crass dear.

[jobeterob]

Thats rather crass dear.

He’s a guy and he’s just being a guy, thinking what guys spend a lot of their time thinking about and doing if they are lucky.

[marybrewster]

Adam Ant didn't have a hit with "Where Did Our Love Go" since he never recorded the song. The artist who did have the hit was Soft Cell; it was featured as the B-side of their hit "Tainted Love" and was part of a medley with "Tainted Love" on the 12 inch single of the song. We'll never know if the producers of Motown 25 tried to get Soft Cell on the show instead of Adam.

Boogie didn't suggest Adam recorded WDOLG. They said HAD Adam recorded it.

[marybrewster]

I've only been able to surmise that Soft Cell wasn't a recognizable name in the US, so de Passe decided to tap into Adam instead. I'm guessing the audience was none the wiser as to who had covered WDOLG.

[TheMotownManiac]

I had several friends who were fans of Adam ant at the time, although I did not share their enthusiasm. I thought his performance was annoying, and I thought Diana brought the audience to life. He may or may not have appreciated her, he has since said that he was glad she did it but who knows what it how he really felt. I have never read or heard Suzanne DePass commenting on this, so I’m not going to weigh in one way or another on that. If she was unwanted on that stage by the producers it was unprofessional for her to do it. But it did improve the show. Unprofessional for sure was Mary appearing high on cocaine and champagne, not in the agreed-upon costume, ignoring the blocking, faking the sound check, speaking over Diana while she was talking and taking over the lead of the song and reciting her own speech instead of the one she was provided by the producers. That behavior is so unprofessional, that nothing else that occurred on that stage that night would matter at all . If Suzanne had filed a grievance, Mary would’ve been sanctioned heavily and fined. I had a friend who works there at the time and was waiting for the grievance to come through and it never did that he knew.

Adam Ant was included hoping to draw a younger demographic That the people growing up in the 60s listening to that classic music. They were going to tune in anyway. It was already the number one show of the week it didn’t matter how much Mary Wells or Martha sang or if the Marvelettes were there or not. This wasn’t a documentary. This was an entertainment being produced by Motown productions for the purpose of making money on advertising, so they added people they thought would draw more viewers. Including more Motown acts without going to draw anybody new. The special could not have been more successful and for that reason I would have to say her decisions were a good ones. That doesn’t mean I want to hear Adam ant or José Feliciano . I liked Linda Ronstadt’s take on those songs so I didn’t necessarily mind her being on the show. But I felt terrible for Martha Reeves and Mary Wells.

[Spreadinglove21]

I wonder if homophobia played a role in Adam Ant getting the gig instead of Marc Almond and Soft Cell, as they were the ones who recorded the new wave cover of Where Did Our Love Go? Despite his stage get up Adam does come off as more masculine and hetero than Almond.

[Ollie9]

I had several friends who were fans of Adam ant at the time, although I did not share their enthusiasm. I thought his performance was annoying, and I thought Diana brought the audience to life. He may or may not have appreciated her, he has since said that he was glad she did it but who knows what it how he really felt. I have never read or heard Suzanne DePass commenting on this, so I’m not going to weigh in one way or another on that. If she was unwanted on that stage by the producers it was unprofessional for her to do it. But it did improve the show. Unprofessional for sure was Mary appearing high on cocaine and champagne, not in the agreed-upon costume, ignoring the blocking, faking the sound check, speaking over Diana while she was talking and taking over the lead of the song and reciting her own speech instead of the one she was provided by the producers. That behavior is so unprofessional, that nothing else that occurred on that stage that night would matter at all . If Suzanne had filed a grievance, Mary would’ve been sanctioned heavily and fined. I had a friend who works there at the time and was waiting for the grievance to come through and it never did that he knew.

Adam Ant was included hoping to draw a younger demographic That the people growing up in the 60s listening to that classic music. They were going to tune in anyway. It was already the number one show of the week it didn’t matter how much Mary Wells or Martha sang or if the Marvelettes were there or not. This wasn’t a documentary. This was an entertainment being produced by Motown productions for the purpose of making money on advertising, so they added people they thought would draw more viewers. Including more Motown acts without going to draw anybody new. The special could not have been more successful and for that reason I would have to say her decisions were a good ones. That doesn’t mean I want to hear Adam ant or José Feliciano . I liked Linda Ronstadt’s take on those songs so I didn’t necessarily mind her being on the show. But I felt terrible for Martha Reeves and Mary Wells.

As has already been mentioned, Mary did not take over the lead of the song but was filling in the gap left when Diana appeared to lose her way.
She can be clearly seen trying to offer it back when Diana shrieks out Smokey Robinson.
I think Marys very short speech was something she felt the right thing to do. No one else was ever going to mention Flo otherwise. I would say giving Martha Reeves a thirty second spot was more a disgrace then a heartfelt gesture such as that.
Diana manhandling another performer would most likely be seen as a ‘tad more unprofessional then Mary donning a red frock that night. With DR reducing the Supremes segment to just one song, i to would have been pissed.

[BayouMotownMan]

As has already been mentioned, Mary did not take over the lead of the song but was filling in the gap left when Diana appeared to lose her way.
She can be clearly seen trying to offer it back when Diana shrieks out Smokey Robinson.
I think Marys very short speech was something she felt the right thing to do. No one else was ever going to mention Flo otherwise. I would say giving Martha Reeves a thirty second spot was more a disgrace then a heartfelt gesture such as that.
Diana manhandling another performer would most likely be seen as a ‘tad more unprofessional then Mary donning a red frock that night. With DR reducing the Supremes segment to just one song, i to would have been pissed.

I think it safe to say that both women acted inappropriately. It is true that Mary defied producers instructions with her entrance and the way she carried on during the song. Mary had not been on national tv in years and was determined to be seen and heard. Diana meanwhile showed her control-freak side by trying to "shove" Mary to the place she was supposed to be in. Suzanne dePasse was livid with Mary and vowed never to use Mary again in a Motown production, which she did not. For Motown Returns To The Apollo, Mary got a ticket to be there from another artist and the Four Tops asked Bill Cosby to bring her up on stage. That was cut out of the broadcast and camera angles tried to minimize Mary as much as possible. For Motown 40 dePasse used only dated film clips of Mary. At Motown 60 Mary was minimized again, sitting several rows behind Scherrie Payne.

[BobbyC]

That's a fair assessment, Bayou. This is all ancient history, I get it, but what seems really unfair to me is that when DR steps out of line, Suzanne begs her to not go onstage but is not livid with her. When Mary strayed, Suzanne was livid. That is blatant favoritism IMO.

[BayouMotownMan]

Well, it just all depends on how you look at things. Ross's stepping out was trying to help Adam Ant salvage his only spot in the show. True Diana is of superstar status and Mary was considered a backing vocalist for her. So for Mary to strut onstage late to get her own applause, misread cue cards during a tribute and instruct Cindy to step with her out of line against dePasse's instruction was considered subversive behavior. Then when it came time to sell the VHS Mary was the lone artist to hold up the sales with more demands. Executives like Berry Gordy and Suzanne dePasse do not accept this behavior by someone who only, in their eyes, had a peripheral contribution to the success of Motown

[jim aka jtigre99]

That's a fair assessment, Bayou. This is all ancient history, I get it, but what seems really unfair to me is that when DR steps out of line, Suzanne begs her to not go onstage but is not livid with her. When Mary strayed, Suzanne was livid. That is blatant favoritism IMO.

I never saw what Mary did as such a major incident. So she wore a different color dress, added words to a speech, moved side by side when singing and sang lead when Miss Ross quit singing. It seemed to me, that Miss Ross also acted far more unprofessional by running out on stage when someone else was performing, even if it was a mediocre performance and by laying hands on a fellow performer to push them back. Miss Ross and Suzanne are besties and Miss Ross' behavior was always tolerated because of her superstar status. Of course, Gordy and Suzanne would always provide favoritism towards Miss Ross no matter what. Nothing that Mary did warranted the ban on her in any Motown production by Suzanne. To see that Mary was disregarded at Motown 60 after all those years is a shame. The fact that Motown 60 didn't at least have all of those stars in the audience on stage for at least SOMETHING was clearly favoritism and degrading for Mary, Scherrie, Otis and others.

[BayouMotownMan]

Jim, it's hard to understand the gravity of the Motown 25 debacle because the segment was heavily edited and the egregious parts destroyed

[marybrewster]

God love her, but why does Cindy always get a pass? Did the woman have no brain? Didn't she know how to talk? She could have said no, I'm not stepping out. And she also could have said, I'm doing my own negotiating for RTL. Let's call a spade a spade here.

[marybrewster]

Funny how we can spin things: Diana walking out on stage during someone else's performance is "saving them", but Mary adding words to a speech is "unprofessional".

You all are rich.

[BayouMotownMan]

Cindy has a brain but she was very uncombative. She thought Mary's direction came from dePasse

[Boogiedown]

If Ross' appearance at this gig were supposed to be the big surprise, the giant crowd-pleasing grand finale as was mentioned above, the fact that she ruined that by prancing out on stage beforehand seems pretty egregious, and at a minimum not so smart.

This was not planned imo. "Here's what I want you to do Diana, go out on stage and shake your ass at Adam. It'll be a hoot." You can tell by Adam's confused reaction he has no idea what to do with her. And Diana has no idea what else to do as well, so she scurries offstage. Adam has to stay on point, in spite of her. He's lip syncing , or perhaps live-singing to a pre-recorded track, he has no room to improvise with Diana Ross. I suspect he's lip syncing or he could've at least dialogued with her or said something, anything...."Ladies and gentlemen , Miss Diana Ross!". As it is, the rest of his performance is marred as he continues to look over with dread wondering if the ol' funster is gonna come out there again. Maybe he's thinking, "good grief, what's going to happen in this circus next? All three Supremes come out prancing around?"
One thing he never does in the midst of this assault ....is smile.

I'm trying to imagine how much Diana Ross would appreciate someone deciding to barge in on an appearance of hers, trying to steal her spotlight, even during one of her most routine shows, never mind a once in a lifetime, recorded for TV performance.

Well .....not but minutes later, Diana kinda gets her just desserts, when her own planned appearance gets railroaded by others going off script. Oh the irony. Hee Hee.

[Spreadinglove21]

Funny how we can spin things: Diana walking out on stage during someone else's performance is "saving them", but Mary adding words to a speech is "unprofessional".

You all are rich.

Diana Ross' motives are always pure and altruistic. I apologize for stating earlier that sexual desire may have been a motivator for her going on stage. Shame on me. Diana Ross would never let sex drive be a factor in her decisions and choices in life. She only had sexual intercourse when she wanted to reproduce and conceive a child. She's a pure minded woman who always did everything for the betterment of others, never for herself or her own ego. She went out on stage during Adam Ant's performance to help the crowd appreciate his performance and save the Motown 25 show. When she passes may the church canonize her as a Saint. And anyone who disagrees with this is just jealous and hates Miss Diana Ross.

[RanRan79]

Funny how we can spin things: Diana walking out on stage during someone else's performance is "saving them", but Mary adding words to a speech is "unprofessional".

You all are rich.

New to the forum, are we?

All of us Supremes fanatics have our biases, I believe. It may come as a shock to you all, but I love Florence Ballard. I'm a huge fan, in case you never noticed. When discussing her, I do try my best to write about her in a way that doesn't allow any bias I might have to blind me to the reality of whatever the topic happens to be. I like to think I do a pretty good job of that. [[And I'd love feedback from anyone who thinks I'm not doing a good job of that, so I can make a better effort.) Now I singled out Florence, but the same can be said for Diana and Jean, to one extent or another. I like to be able to point out their positives in one post and be equally able at pointing out their negatives in another.

Unfortunately everybody aint like me. Admittedly, I bristle at comments that make it seem like anything Mary did that night was almost criminal yet not a sound about Diana getting physical. I don't care if Mary went out on that stage and pussy popped on a handstand. It still wouldn't have been as disgusting as Diana putting her hands on Mary. I don't care whether it was a shove, a push, a kick, or a punch, Diana was turning 40, old enough to know how to handle her emotions.

Mary went off script for a speech and she supposedly changed the agreed upon gown color [[has this ever been confirmed or is this fan fodder?). And yet she was still allowed to step on stage for the Supremes reunion. Diana Ross pushed Mary Wilson and the reunion was effectively over. Mary wasn't the problem that night, Diana was. Mary might have had some coke and liquor, who knows? But lets say she did have something for her nose and throat. The drunk druggie didn't put her hands on anyone that night, the sober diva did. To excuse Diana's behavior that night is just further proof that she could shoot someone in the middle of fifth avenue...and well, y'all know the rest.

[RanRan79]

God love her, but why does Cindy always get a pass? Did the woman have no brain? Didn't she know how to talk? She could have said no, I'm not stepping out. And she also could have said, I'm doing my own negotiating for RTL. Let's call a spade a spade here.

Regarding RTL, I think Cindy just didn't want to be bothered. She probably figured that when it was all said and done, she'd either get the same amount Mary was getting, or if not, she'd still make more money than she had in a very long time. She was probably also smart enough to recognize that with the Supremes being Mary and Diana's group, it was best to leave them at it. My speculation, of course. Ultimately, she probably realized it might have been best to handle her own negotiations. Which begs the question, did Diana ever call Cindy like she called Mary? And if so, what was that conversation like? Was there an understanding between Cindy and Diana that Mary was going to do negotiations for the both of them?

With Motown 25, I don't think there was anything for Cindy to say. She probably didn't care if Mary changed gowns. She probably thought it was a good idea for each lady to get their own entrance too. She likely agreed with Mary to do what they could to ensure that their mics weren't inaudible and agreed that they would not stand on stage behind Diana Ross as some kind of subordinates, but instead keep up with Diana as equals. I think Cindy very much had a brain. She may not have orchestrated these moves, but she agreed with them, thought it was the right thing to do. I too approve the message. Cindy probably doesn't get the venom that Mary gets because no one is really invested in a Cindy vs Diana war. The Mary vs Diana war is where the life blood is, even when one of the participants is dead.

[BayouMotownMan]

New to the forum, are we?

All of us Supremes fanatics have our biases, I believe. It may come as a shock to you all, but I love Florence Ballard. I'm a huge fan, in case you never noticed. When discussing her, I do try my best to write about her in a way that doesn't allow any bias I might have to blind me to the reality of whatever the topic happens to be. I like to think I do a pretty good job of that. [[And I'd love feedback from anyone who thinks I'm not doing a good job of that, so I can make a better effort.) Now I singled out Florence, but the same can be said for Diana and Jean, to one extent or another. I like to be able to point out their positives in one post and be equally able at pointing out their negatives in another.

Unfortunately everybody aint like me. Admittedly, I bristle at comments that make it seem like anything Mary did that night was almost criminal yet not a sound about Diana getting physical. I don't care if Mary went out on that stage and pussy popped on a handstand. It still wouldn't have been as disgusting as Diana putting her hands on Mary. I don't care whether it was a shove, a push, a kick, or a punch, Diana was turning 40, old enough to know how to handle her emotions.

Mary went off script for a speech and she supposedly changed the agreed upon gown color [[has this ever been confirmed or is this fan fodder?). And yet she was still allowed to step on stage for the Supremes reunion. Diana Ross pushed Mary Wilson and the reunion was effectively over. Mary wasn't the problem that night, Diana was. Mary might have had some coke and liquor, who knows? But lets say she did have something for her nose and throat. The drunk druggie didn't put her hands on anyone that night, the sober diva did. To excuse Diana's behavior that night is just further proof that she could shoot someone in the middle of fifth avenue...and well, y'all know the rest.

Well, I have to address another misconception. Diana Ross did not push or shove Mary Wilson. Mary in an interview with Joan Rivers confirmed this.

When Diana took her two steps forward to form the classic Diana Ross and the Supremes stage formation, Mary followed and then Cindy. Ross just assumed that Mary was confused, so what is cut out of this performance is that Diana surged forward again. When Mary attempted to do the same, Diana turned, grabbed Mary's arm and attempted to put Mary on her mark. Timely camera and microphone settings are dependent on these singers being on their marks. When Diana realized how it looked, she just let Mary go with the segment and then said, "that's Mary Wilson and that's Cindy Birdsong."

The ladies only had a very quick generic run through before the taping. If you look at the entrances, when Diana announces them, Cindy comes out on cue, then Diana looks for Mary offstage and motions with her finger for Mary to come on. Mary had been holding back.

[RanRan79]

Adam Ant was included hoping to draw a younger demographic That the people growing up in the 60s listening to that classic music. They were going to tune in anyway. It was already the number one show of the week it didn’t matter how much Mary Wells or Martha sang or if the Marvelettes were there or not. This wasn’t a documentary. This was an entertainment being produced by Motown productions for the purpose of making money on advertising, so they added people they thought would draw more viewers. Including more Motown acts without going to draw anybody new. The special could not have been more successful and for that reason I would have to say her decisions were a good ones. That doesn’t mean I want to hear Adam ant or José Feliciano . I liked Linda Ronstadt’s take on those songs so I didn’t necessarily mind her being on the show. But I felt terrible for Martha Reeves and Mary Wells.

The people who grew up with Motown wanted a show, they wanted the music. And yes, that music included Mary Wells, the Marvelettes, Junior Walker, Martha and the Vandellas, the Contours, all acts that had at least a handful of songs that the public found unforgettable [[except maybe the Contours, but they had a huge unforgettable one). And all of those acts should have had prime representation over the likes of Adam Ant and Linda Ronstadt.

I've never objected to Debarge and High Inergy because they were current Motown acts and represented the forward and onward direction of the label. No disrespect to Jose, but Rick James should have had that segment. The Funk Brothers should have been brought back to play behind the acts.

Motown 25's audience was built in. They were primed and ready. There was no need to bring in extras to guarantee success. Anybody not already tuning in for the nostalgia were going to tune in to see the current reigning king of music, Michael Jackson, who at the time of taping had the number one album in the country and three huge singles on the charts.

Motown 25 was handled like A Bit of Liverpool: Motown had everything everybody else wanted, but then brought in something new and pushed the unique thing aside in order to appease people who really didn't want to be appeased. It was a dumb business model in 1964 and it was still dumb in 1983.

It's amazing that Motown 25 turned out as well as it did.

[Ollie9]

I think it safe to say that both women acted inappropriately as

You say that Bayou, but continue to focus more on what Mary did or didn’t do.
I genuinely believe to varying degrees that both woman were at fault that evening.
I certainly consider it nonsense that Diana went on stage to salvage Ant’s performance. She did it because she thought it might be fun, nothing more.
Diana’s manhandling of Mary was the ultimate breach of professionalism that occurred the evening of M25. The media had a field day and the Supremes image was further tarnished.
Perhaps Adam should have jumped on stage during “Ain’t Mo Mountain High Enough” as revenge. The mindset Diana was in that evening, he might have ended up singing in a higher key the rest of his days .....Ouch.

[RanRan79]

Well, I have to address another misconception. Diana Ross did not push or shove Mary Wilson. Mary in an interview with Joan Rivers confirmed this.

When Diana took her two steps forward to form the classic Diana Ross and the Supremes stage formation, Mary followed and then Cindy. Ross just assumed that Mary was confused, so what is cut out of this performance is that Diana surged forward again. When Mary attempted to do the same, Diana turned, grabbed Mary's arm and attempted to put Mary on her mark. Timely camera and microphone settings are dependent on these singers being on their marks. When Diana realized how it looked, she just let Mary go with the segment and then said, "that's Mary Wilson and that's Cindy Birdsong."

The ladies only had a very quick generic run through before the taping. If you look at the entrances, when Diana announces them, Cindy comes out on cue, then Diana looks for Mary offstage and motions with her finger for Mary to come on. Mary had been holding back.

I've seen it referred to as a shove and sometimes as a push. My point in using both terms, along with the added scenarios of kick and punch, is that regardless of what the motion was- and whatever it was, it was enough to be noticed by all, that things had just gone completely left and then so egregious that it had to be edited out and reducing the reunion to mere seconds, and is now kept under lock and key- Diana was out of line. It wasn't her job to direct Mary to do anything, certainly not physically.

If everything that happened that night had happened with the exception of the "push", no one would have ever known anything was amiss. The Supremes reunion would have happened and it would have been a nice talked about moment after everybody was done talking about Michael Jackson. Instead Diana took things too far and she gave people more reason to talk shit about her.

Diana was the problem that night.

[RanRan79]

You say that Bayou, but continue to focus more on what Mary did or didn’t do.
I genuinely believe to varying degrees that both woman were at fault that evening.
I certainly consider it nonsense that Diana went on stage to salvage Ant’s performance. She did it because she thought it might be fun, nothing more.
Diana’s manhandling of Mary was the ultimate breach of professionalism that occurred the evening of M25. The media had a field day and the Supremes image was further tarnished.
Perhaps Adam should have jumped on stage during “Ain’t Mo Mountain High Enough” as revenge. The mindset Diana was in that evening, he might have ended up singing in a higher key the rest of his days .....Ouch.

Ha, if her reaction to Mary's unplanned motions are any indication, had Adam decided to repay the favor, he would've ended up on a mountain, probably with one of Diana's heels still stuck in his ass.

[reese]

Regarding RTL, I think Cindy just didn't want to be bothered. She probably figured that when it was all said and done, she'd either get the same amount Mary was getting, or if not, she'd still make more money than she had in a very long time. She was probably also smart enough to recognize that with the Supremes being Mary and Diana's group, it was best to leave them at it. My speculation, of course. Ultimately, she probably realized it might have been best to handle her own negotiations. Which begs the question, did Diana ever call Cindy like she called Mary? And if so, what was that conversation like? Was there an understanding between Cindy and Diana that Mary was going to do negotiations for the both of them?

I don't recall Diana ever mentioning whether or not she called Cindy. I would tend to believe that she did as when Mary first mentioned the reunion on ACCESS HOLLYWOOD, she said that each of their deals had to be negotiated. I do remember that Cindy gave an interview to Discoveries or Goldmine magazine in which she expressed regret that she let Mary negotiate for her.

In NEXT magazine, Mary was asked whether Cindy's non-participation in RTL was based on Mary's. Mary said that she and Cindy were united and they were each free agents but that Cindy was dropped when she was. She also said that Cindy was quiet about it because she was a minister at the time and didn't want to dwell on negativity.