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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post

    Mary went off script for a speech and she supposedly changed the agreed upon gown color [[has this ever been confirmed or is this fan fodder?). And yet she was still allowed to step on stage for the Supremes reunion. Diana Ross pushed Mary Wilson and the reunion was effectively over. Mary wasn't the problem that night, Diana was. Mary might have had some coke and liquor, who knows? But lets say she did have something for her nose and throat. The drunk druggie didn't put her hands on anyone that night, the sober diva did. To excuse Diana's behavior that night is just further proof that she could shoot someone in the middle of fifth avenue...and well, y'all know the rest.
    I must admit that I loved Mary's dress and never thought about anything else about it until I read various posts saying she deviated from was what agreed upon. But when you look at the other performers on the show, it could be true. Most of the performers do seem to be wearing black, white or something muted. The colorful costumes worn by Mary and High Inergy seem to be the exception.

    Re Diana's actions, for years it has been said to be anything from a push to a shove to a hand on Mary's shoulder. There was also reports that Diana pulled the mike from Mary's mouth. In her book, Mary said it happened when she called Berry down. In an interview with A TOUCH OF CLASSIC SOUL, Cindy says it happened during SOMEDAY. In any event, if this is true, as much as I love Diana, IMO she still shouldn't have gotten physical for any reason.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    I don't recall Diana ever mentioning whether or not she called Cindy. I would tend to believe that she did as when Mary first mentioned the reunion on ACCESS HOLLYWOOD, she said that each of their deals had to be negotiated. I do remember that Cindy gave an interview to Discoveries or Goldmine magazine in which she expressed regret that she let Mary negotiate for her.

    In NEXT magazine, Mary was asked whether Cindy's non-participation in RTL was based on Mary's. Mary said that she and Cindy were united and they were each free agents but that Cindy was dropped when she was. She also said that Cindy was quiet about it because she was a minister at the time and didn't want to dwell on negativity.
    If true, it seems odd that Cindy was dropped as well. Allowing for the fact that Scherrie and Lynda were use to performing together, it probably seemed the simplest thing to do.
    Cindy's participation would certainly have lent more kudos to the idea of a Supremes reunion.

  3. #53
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    Is there footage of the actual Supremes reunion that shows the things being Claimed ? Looking at the program as presented /edited : it seems pretty congenial. I will say Diana’s singing is pretty bad and the three of them together even worse.
    Smokey Robinson seems to be charging onto the stage as if to prevent an all out brawl.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    Is there footage of the actual Supremes reunion that shows the things being Claimed ? Looking at the program as presented /edited : it seems pretty congenial. I will say Diana’s singing is pretty bad and the three of them together even worse.
    Smokey Robinson seems to be charging onto the stage as if to prevent an all out brawl.
    Supposedly it is locked away and only Berry and Suzanne dePasse have access to it.

  5. #55
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    Berry watches it once a year with a big bowl of buttered popcorn.


    Reese, is the tv show as presented in the true order of the night’s actual progression? Or have the performances been edited and reconfigured?

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    Is there footage of the actual Supremes reunion that shows the things being Claimed ?
    If you have a good eye, at 7:03 mark in the video below, you can see a brief shot of the entire stage, and you can see Diana is turned around to Mary, with her back to the audience [look at the center of that shot and you'll see a bit of Mary's red gown and Diana is in silver]. It seems that her arm was lowered, toward Mary, and then Diana suddenly turns back to the audience, and flicks her hair back, with the footage transitioning to the up close shot of Diana, asking Berry to come down to the stage. I believe this would have been the moment when Mary had prematurely called Berry to come down to the stage, and then Diana turned around and shoved down Mary's microphone from her face, telling her, "It's already been taken care of".

    Despite all of the editing and cutting they did, I've noticed this brief moment for years, in the video of the special. Most would never notice it, unless you're looking for it and know what transpired on stage that evening...

    https://youtu.be/0k0gaCYJgwo

    Last edited by carlo; 11-06-2022 at 07:09 PM.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    Berry watches it once a year with a big bowl of buttered popcorn.


    Reese, is the tv show as presented in the true order of the night’s actual progression? Or have the performances been edited and reconfigured?
    I would assume that like most tv specials, MOTOWN 25 was filmed out of order and then edited to make a great special. For instance, on the actual telecast, Adam Ant's performance came before a commercial break, followed by Diana Ross and the Supremes closing segment. But on the home video, Adam's performance is in the middle, following T.G. Sheppard and Jose Feliciano, who introduces him.

    When the program was released on vhs, some extra performances were included [additional songs from the Miracles, Stevie Wonder, Smokey, the Jacksons, etc.] as well as some performances that never made it to tv [T.G. Sheppard and Jose Feliciano].
    Last edited by reese; 11-06-2022 at 07:17 PM.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlo View Post
    If you have a good eye, at 7:03 mark in the video below, you can see a brief shot of the entire stage, and you can see Diana is turned around to Mary, with her back to the audience [look at the center of that shot and you'll see a bit of Mary's red gown and Diana is in silver]. It seems that her arm was lowered, toward Mary, and then Diana suddenly turns back to the audience, and flicks her hair back, with the footage transitioning to the up close shot of Diana, asking Berry to come down to the stage. I believe this would have been the moment when Mary had prematurely called Berry to come down to the stage, and then Diana turned around and shoved down Mary's microphone from her face, telling her, "It's already been taken care of".

    Despite all of the editing and cutting they did, I've noticed this brief moment for years, in the video of the special. Most would never notice it, unless you're looking for it and know what transpired on stage that evening...

    https://youtu.be/0k0gaCYJgwo

    I didn't notice it until I watched the home video over and over. I believe you can actually see the fringe on Mary's dress move before Diana turns around. I shouldn't admit I've watched this so closely.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    I didn't notice it until I watched the home video over and over. I believe you can actually see the fringe on Mary's dress move before Diana turns around. I shouldn't admit I've watched this so closely.
    Hahaha The case of the moving fringe!

    I should make a slow motion gif of this moment.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan View Post
    Well, I have to address another misconception. Diana Ross did not push or shove Mary Wilson. Mary in an interview with Joan Rivers confirmed this.

    When Diana took her two steps forward to form the classic Diana Ross and the Supremes stage formation, Mary followed and then Cindy. Ross just assumed that Mary was confused, so what is cut out of this performance is that Diana surged forward again. When Mary attempted to do the same, Diana turned, grabbed Mary's arm and attempted to put Mary on her mark. Timely camera and microphone settings are dependent on these singers being on their marks. When Diana realized how it looked, she just let Mary go with the segment and then said, "that's Mary Wilson and that's Cindy Birdsong."

    The ladies only had a very quick generic run through before the taping. If you look at the entrances, when Diana announces them, Cindy comes out on cue, then Diana looks for Mary offstage and motions with her finger for Mary to come on. Mary had been holding back.
    That’s the first time I’ve heard Diana was trying to guide her to her spot.

    If Diana was so concerned about Mary being on her mark for then she clearly didn’t care what she was doing when she went onstage during Adam Ant’s performance causing the folks running the lighting, camera, microphone placement, etc. to scramble. Much more than Mary being two steps ahead of where she was suppose to be.

  11. #61
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    as Bayou mentions, the aired Someday performance in HEAVILY edited. not just the visual of the performance but the audio too. the whole smokey entrance is well after the bridge of the song. there's a whole section of the music gone. while Diana is saying "this is mary wilson and that's cindy birdsong" mary can be heard singing Bye Bye Bye Bye but you can clearly see that doesn't meet up with the visual. they sync it back up as Mary is doing the lead "i long for you, every, every night." and that's when Smokey emerges

    if you count off the seconds right after M and C join her onstage, when Diana starts singing "a long time ago now now sweet thing..." to the end of the bridge, you're only talking about 30 seconds of music. it's amazing that it descended into chaos so quickly. hard to image Suzanne even had time to think "oh fuck - Smokey!!! help!! get out there!!" of course i guess everyone was already in the wings, waiting for the finale. so that helped

    also as Bayou mentioned, both women handled the reunion poorly. and as someone on here mentioned, I think Cindy didn't help matters either by just being a silent partner to the whole things. she should have spoken up during rehearsals to say too "hey! this sucks to do 1 min of 1 song." but she didn't

    but overall diana shouldn't have entered during Adam Ant's segment. even if it sucked and was the dullest moment on the program, it's not her role to fix it. the producers can edit it so it doesn't drag as much, they could layer in applause and all. And during the reunion, Diana might have intended to simply correct mary back to her mark but how she did it was a poor decision

    Mary seems to have come to the reunion with a mission to make a name for herself. if she was on coke, even worse. the various books all talk about how everyone backstage was goading her to take over things. she was certainly a willing accomplice. her speech, while maybe well intended, was not the right thing to do. her purposely singing soft at sound check, making up her own choreography, recruiting Cindy into her plans, usurping the lead.

  12. #62
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    I love talking Motown 25. Everyone is so PASSIONATE about a 40 year program on a VHS tape. We're never all going to agree on the antics of the evening, but it'll give us fuel to discuss for another 40 years.

    Just want to add three comments, questions:

    1) I was always fascinated by Adam's performance and never really gave two thoughts about Diana on stage during it. I always paid more attention to the button that comes off his jacket when he opens it, and to what I think a fantastic recovery from almost falling; there's a part about halfway through when he's bouncing around stage where he's singing "Baby, baby", but it comes out "Baby, oop, baby" and if you watch, he almost trips.

    2) Do you think Diana's speech about Berry "feeling that he's never been appreciated" was scripted, or something off the cuff? It just seems like such an odd statement to make. Was she talking about herself and her relationship after leaving for RCA? And what about him opening his hands? I've set you free?

    3) During the speech about Berry, Diana ends with "But tonight everybody came back".....and the music to "Someday" starts. But to me, it looks like Diana is about to say something else, starting with "And", but whatever it is has been edited. Any thoughts? And WHAT?

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    I love talking Motown 25. Everyone is so PASSIONATE about a 40 year program on a VHS tape. We're never all going to agree on the antics of the evening, but it'll give us fuel to discuss for another 40 years.

    Just want to add three comments, questions:

    1) I was always fascinated by Adam's performance and never really gave two thoughts about Diana on stage during it. I always paid more attention to the button that comes off his jacket when he opens it, and to what I think a fantastic recovery from almost falling; there's a part about halfway through when he's bouncing around stage where he's singing "Baby, baby", but it comes out "Baby, oop, baby" and if you watch, he almost trips.

    2) Do you think Diana's speech about Berry "feeling that he's never been appreciated" was scripted, or something off the cuff? It just seems like such an odd statement to make. Was she talking about herself and her relationship after leaving for RCA? And what about him opening his hands? I've set you free?

    3) During the speech about Berry, Diana ends with "But tonight everybody came back".....and the music to "Someday" starts. But to me, it looks like Diana is about to say something else, starting with "And", but whatever it is has been edited. Any thoughts? And WHAT?
    I'm almost sure that Diana's speech was off the cuff. It seemed rather heartfelt. Re Berry feeling unappreciated, maybe that was something he communicated to her over the years. At the time of this special [1983], Motown was going through a difficult period and had lost many acts. Of the early ones, only Stevie, Smokey, and the Tempts remained. Marvin had left the year before and of course, Diana had left as well.

    I believe Diana and Berry hadn't seen each other since she left the company. I recall Berry writing about her speech in his book and saying something like "No, Diana. This doesn't make it alright." [I'm paraphrasing.]

    As you wrote, there is an obvious edit right before SOMEDAY began. As to what she said, if it was anything earth-shattering, I'm sure it would have been reported as stories about the show were in many magazines before it aired. More than likely, it was probably much of the same adoration for Berry and the company and was cut for time.
    Last edited by reese; 11-07-2022 at 10:24 AM.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post

    it looks like Diana is about to say something else, starting with "And", but whatever it is has been edited. Any thoughts? And WHAT?
    "But tonight, everybody came back. And if they didn't come back, like Gladys Knight, who gives a shit?"

    -From the official Motown 25 transcript.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    it looks like Diana is about to say something else, starting with "And", but whatever it is has been edited. Any thoughts? And WHAT?
    "But tonight, everybody came back. And that's cool, but really you only needed me. There is no 25 years of Motown without Diana Ross."

    -An alternate official Motown 25 transcript.

  16. #66
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    Like Carlo and Reese, I too have previously peeped the itty bitty moment of Diana turning back to face the crowd after pushing Mary's mic down. I think I noticed it the first time I watched the tape.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    That’s the first time I’ve heard Diana was trying to guide her to her spot.
    Me to lol. She’s starting to sound like a Goodwill Ambassador. First coming to Adam Ant’s rescue as well as gently guiding Mary to her mark to ensure all ran smoothly.
    From everything I’ve ever read, Diana actually wanted very little to do with the other performers while backstage.
    Whatever M’s Ross did, it was certainly enough to make the audience gasp. I don’t understand why some have such a hard time comprehending that both women were at fault that evening. The most relevant thing being Diana became physical in front of zillions of people which made headlines the next day.

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    Mary should have rearranged Diana's greasy hair with a mic stand!!!

    Okay. That was a little over-the-top. I got swept up in the cheap drama of it all. I blame Boogiedown.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    I love talking Motown 25. Everyone is so PASSIONATE about a 40 year program on a VHS tape. We're never all going to agree on the antics of the evening, but it'll give us fuel to discuss for another 40 years.

    Just want to add three comments, questions:

    1) I was always fascinated by Adam's performance and never really gave two thoughts about Diana on stage during it. I always paid more attention to the button that comes off his jacket when he opens it, and to what I think a fantastic recovery from almost falling; there's a part about halfway through when he's bouncing around stage where he's singing "Baby, baby", but it comes out "Baby, oop, baby" and if you watch, he almost trips.

    2) Do you think Diana's speech about Berry "feeling that he's never been appreciated" was scripted, or something off the cuff? It just seems like such an odd statement to make. Was she talking about herself and her relationship after leaving for RCA? And what about him opening his hands? I've set you free?

    3) During the speech about Berry, Diana ends with "But tonight everybody came back".....and the music to "Someday" starts. But to me, it looks like Diana is about to say something else, starting with "And", but whatever it is has been edited. Any thoughts? And WHAT?
    i agree that her dialog sounds off the cuff. it was my understanding that Diana wasn't particularly good at just "winging it" with dialog and speech. maybe her speech rambled a little bit and this was the part they left in, meanwhile, segueing to Someday. it's also odd IMO that they start Someday in the middle of the tune, at the bridge. so in actuality, the Supremes reunion wasn't even 1 song, but a half of one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    ...it's also odd IMO that they start Someday in the middle of the tune, at the bridge. so in actuality, the Supremes reunion wasn't even 1 song, but a half of one.
    I found that strange as well. But maybe they did that for time since the original plan was for DMC to do a hits medley and then [I assume] lead the grand finale.

    Whatever went wrong happened quickly as they totally edited out the section of the bridge where Diana would have sang "Oh, oh, baby, ever, ever, ever. Ever, ever and ever since that day. All I wanna do, all I wanna do is cry, cry, cry. Hey, hey, hey."
    Last edited by reese; 11-07-2022 at 10:22 AM.

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    These 2 women had so many memories and history between them its hard for a fan to get in between was actually being felt or what had already happen between them. There was another televised event after this I believe that Mary talks about in her book where Diana says to her when she enters the stage "You come to pick a fight tonight Mary?"

    There was definitely some bad blood or bitterness already brewing between the two of them and Cindy was not getting between them. What I remember was Smokey whispering something in Diana's ear and at that point she got back on her mark.

    As far as Mary, I don't know if she had any of things everyone is saying she took that night in regard to drugs. All I know is these women had been friends for a long time even after Ross leaving the group. Diana even went to Mary's opening night concert and they claimed they were still in touch and then all of a sudden BOOM !!!

    My guess is word got out about Mary writing the book and that is what started the wedge between them. At any rate I can't find the book or document right now but I do remember Mary being blackballed for any more appearances from Motown around this time. Also, I believe Berry had to personally ask Michael, Marvin and Diana to appear for this.

    Also, I don't want this to lead off into a different direction but why would Gladys Knight not show up for Motown 25 but came to Motown 30 ? Was she that mad or jealous ?

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    i think the reason GKATP didn't appear was because they didn't want to. they felt it was to be a celebration of motown and the motown family and they never felt part of the family. i wonder if they would have received a larger segment than Martha? or if that segment would have simply been stretched out to 4 instead of 3.

    it was a shameful way to pay tribute to these 3 artists/groups.

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    Neither GKATP nor the Spinners would appear on Motown 25. Both groups felt they were mistreated at Motown and therefore declined the invitation.

    Motown 30 was 7 yrs later. By this time Gladys was a solo artist trying to get a hit record on her own. She agreed to do Motown 30 because she was td be a hostess. Had her Pips agreed to Motown 25 they surely would have been relegated to 60 seconds just as Mary, Martha, Jr and the Commodores had been.

    Had Gladys had her druthers she never would have signed with Motown. To this day she says in interviews she was overruled by the Pips in 1965 when they signed to the label. Gladys was savvy enough to know she's be down the latter of priorities as they were not a home-grown act. Also annoying Gordy, who loved the group, was that they came to Motown with their own representation and would not let Motown control the group's finances as they were doing with their own artists. This alone limited the groups success there.

    In fact, Bubba Knight has remembered that they were furious with their first single, Just Walk In My Shoes. When they heard the Andantes on there they went to Gordy in a rage and said under no circumstances was their sound to be tampered with. They refused to promote the single, which made it take longer for them to get their breakout hit

    While Motown did play a role in putting GKATP into the mainstream, it wasn't until the group went to Buddah that they became superstars.

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    What a massive assignment, trying to wrap the entirety of Motown into a neat little all
    In one show package. Bringing together everyone , most who’d well moved on, just incredible and at the end of the day without Motown we’d have before us a stage of nobodies. So yes a night of gratitude was most appropriate.
    Why Adam Ant thought he belonged there as a qualified part of it , were I in the audience, I’d have sat on my hands too. Jaringly out of place , never mind the absurd performance.

    That the Supremes were foolish enough to appear together on TV for the first time in twenty years without an ounce of practice…. Well they deserved the less than a minute segment they wound up with.Too much was invested in the value of that reunion to completely edit them out , but no doubt had that segment been replaced with a performance by Gladys Knight it would have been a show stopper ….. and for the right reasons.
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 11-07-2022 at 11:36 AM.

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    Well a good step in the right direction would have been sacking Adam Ant and Jose, and giving the classic Motown groups more time.

    What Bayou says here about Gladys and the boys is true. Gladys said she didn't want to cause any undue drama, but that she didn't have especially good memories of Motown as a company, so she just quietly left the whole thing alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i think the reason GKATP didn't appear was because they didn't want to. they felt it was to be a celebration of motown and the motown family and they never felt part of the family. i wonder if they would have received a larger segment than Martha? or if that segment would have simply been stretched out to 4 instead of 3.

    it was a shameful way to pay tribute to these 3 artists/groups.
    I used to ponder if Gladys and the Pips would have been used instead of the Tops for the Battle of the Groups medley with the Tempts.

    Or maybe they would have Gladys and Marvin duet on GRAPEVINE as they had done the year before on Dick Clark's SALUTE special for the Pips.

    I would hate to think they'd be reduced to a verse of GRAPEVINE in that segment with Martha, Mary, Jr. Walker, and the Commodores.
    Last edited by reese; 11-07-2022 at 12:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyC View Post
    Well a good step in the right direction would have been sacking Adam Ant and Jose, and giving the classic Motown groups more time.

    What Bayou says here about Gladys and the boys is true. Gladys said she didn't want to cause any undue drama, but that she didn't have especially good memories of Motown as a company, so she just quietly left the whole thing alone.
    In a sense, Jose was sacked as his segment was never broadcast. It only appears on the home video.

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    A couple of other editing errors I've noticed over the years:

    There's a part when Berry is coming on stage to embrace Diana, and she's heard singing something like "whoo hoo, wahhh" but she's instead talking to Berry, and pointing offstage.

    Also, there's a point when the cast is singing "Someday" and there's a voice that sounds JUST like Dionne Warwick. Does anyone else hear that? I think the lyric heard is "we'll be to-ge-eh-eh-eh-ther".

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    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    A couple of other editing errors I've noticed over the years:

    There's a part when Berry is coming on stage to embrace Diana, and she's heard singing something like "whoo hoo, wahhh" but she's instead talking to Berry, and pointing offstage.

    Also, there's a point when the cast is singing "Someday" and there's a voice that sounds JUST like Dionne Warwick. Does anyone else hear that? I think the lyric heard is "we'll be to-ge-eh-eh-eh-ther".
    I've seen that spot. There's also a point where Diana and Marvin are singing and the audio and video don't match. I'm sure a lot of those weird edits were left in that show [as well as the 1985 Apollo special] because who thought we'd be dissecting these shows almost 40 years later? They were probably just trying to get it ready for its original airdate.

    Re the female voice, I'm sure it was Martha. I've never seen Dionne in the finale.
    Last edited by reese; 11-07-2022 at 12:28 PM.

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    I’m amused by the way Diana is perched there expecting Berry to go immediately to her to plant a big juicy one on her , but instead he takes the time to shake hands with others before then getting to her.

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    i wonder if M and C couldn't have had some sort of rehearsal prior? neither were especially busy at the time. and when you look at what the Miracles did, the Tops/Tempts and others, I wouldn't think those were all pulled of with just 20 mins of rehearsal that day.

    also wouldn't they have already provided Diana with the charts and music for the medley? someone would have had to compose it and prepare it. it's not like it would have contained all sorts of odd things like Your Kiss of Fire, I Can't Make It Alone and Tears of Sorrow lol It would have probably had Stop, Baby Love, maybe you can't hurry love. all very commonly used songs, all songs she had been using in her shows for years.

    and if the medley was prepared prior, couldn't she have been the one to say "no let's cut Back in my arms as I've not sung that for years." and she'd have been able to stick to songs she was comfortable with

    heck - why didn't they just ask her for the arrangements of the latest medley she was using in her act? Mary and Cindy could easily have been given whatever backing vocals charts Diana was using.

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    According to all accounts there were no prior rehearsals. They were told that day what was going on
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i wonder if M and C couldn't have had some sort of rehearsal prior? neither were especially busy at the time. and when you look at what the Miracles did, the Tops/Tempts and others, I wouldn't think those were all pulled of with just 20 mins of rehearsal that day.

    also wouldn't they have already provided Diana with the charts and music for the medley? someone would have had to compose it and prepare it. it's not like it would have contained all sorts of odd things like Your Kiss of Fire, I Can't Make It Alone and Tears of Sorrow lol It would have probably had Stop, Baby Love, maybe you can't hurry love. all very commonly used songs, all songs she had been using in her shows for years.

    and if the medley was prepared prior, couldn't she have been the one to say "no let's cut Back in my arms as I've not sung that for years." and she'd have been able to stick to songs she was comfortable with

    heck - why didn't they just ask her for the arrangements of the latest medley she was using in her act? Mary and Cindy could easily have been given whatever backing vocals charts Diana was using.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i wonder if M and C couldn't have had some sort of rehearsal prior? neither were especially busy at the time. and when you look at what the Miracles did, the Tops/Tempts and others, I wouldn't think those were all pulled of with just 20 mins of rehearsal that day.

    also wouldn't they have already provided Diana with the charts and music for the medley? someone would have had to compose it and prepare it. it's not like it would have contained all sorts of odd things like Your Kiss of Fire, I Can't Make It Alone and Tears of Sorrow lol It would have probably had Stop, Baby Love, maybe you can't hurry love. all very commonly used songs, all songs she had been using in her shows for years.

    and if the medley was prepared prior, couldn't she have been the one to say "no let's cut Back in my arms as I've not sung that for years." and she'd have been able to stick to songs she was comfortable with

    heck - why didn't they just ask her for the arrangements of the latest medley she was using in her act? Mary and Cindy could easily have been given whatever backing vocals charts Diana was using.
    I haven't watched the dvd extras in a while but I think at least one of them [or maybe photos in them] made me conclude that some of the musical tracks [and probably backing vocals] for the program were done beforehand.

    In the booklet for the MOTOWN 25 dvd, they enclosed a copy of the rehearsal schedule for the show. Only the spots for the actual day of taping [March 25] are shown. None of the slots seem to be that long. Diana is listed along with Billy Dee Williams for a 3:15pm slot. Mary and Cindy are listed for 3:30pm. The next slot isn't until 6:45 for Dick Clark, who couldn't come earlier.

    Also, the dvd booklet also includes many rehearsal photos. There are also a few shots of Diana, one standing in the audience with very few patrons, another in the audience with Suzanne and Don Mischer, and another with she and Marvin Gaye
    Last edited by reese; 11-07-2022 at 10:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    I haven't watched the dvd extras in a while but I think at least one of them [or maybe photos in them] made me conclude that think that some of the musical tracks [and probably backing vocals] for the program were done beforehand.

    In the booklet for the MOTOWN 25 dvd, they enclosed a copy of the rehearsal schedule for the show. Only the spots for the actual day of taping [March 25] are shown. None of the slots seem to be that long. Diana is listed along with Billy Dee Williams for a 3:15pm slot. Mary and Cindy are listed for 3:30pm. The next slot isn't until 6:45 for Dick Clark, who couldn't come earlier.

    Also, the booklet dvd also includes many rehearsal photos. There are also a few shots of Diana, one standing in the audience with very few patrons, another in the audience with Suzanne and Don Mischer, and another with she and Marvin Gaye
    For such a huge event, you'd think there would be more photos? I've seen one with Mary and Duke, and I think there's one with the Gordys, but that's it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    I haven't watched the dvd extras in a while but I think at least one of them [or maybe photos in them] made me conclude that think that some of the musical tracks [and probably backing vocals] for the program were done beforehand.

    In the booklet for the MOTOWN 25 dvd, they enclosed a copy of the rehearsal schedule for the show. Only the spots for the actual day of taping [March 25] are shown. None of the slots seem to be that long. Diana is listed along with Billy Dee Williams for a 3:15pm slot. Mary and Cindy are listed for 3:30pm. The next slot isn't until 6:45 for Dick Clark, who couldn't come earlier.

    Also, the booklet dvd also includes many rehearsal photos. There are also a few shots of Diana, one standing in the audience with very few patrons, another in the audience with Suzanne and Don Mischer, and another with she and Marvin Gaye
    I don't have the DVD with extras, but does that suggest that Diana didn't rehearse at all with Mary and Cindy, if they have 2 different time slots?

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    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    I don't have the DVD with extras, but does that suggest that Diana didn't rehearse at all with Mary and Cindy, if they have 2 different time slots?
    Re the dvd booklet, there are plenty of photos, both rehearsal and performance. There's a particularly nice photo of Martha and Smokey.

    Re DMC's timeslot, I assume after her slot with Billy Dee, Diana then went to rehearse with Mary and Cindy. It was probably at that time [if J.Randy's last book is to be believed] that Diana was told there wasn't enough time for a decent rehearsal and she decided that they should skip the medley and just do SOMEDAY.

    Also, remember that just because someone was assigned a slot doesn't necessarily mean they showed up for it on time, if at all. So time slots could have been delayed as well.

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    ... would it be ... ungentlemanly ... for one to suggest that the true 'beyond bizarre' Supremes moment is Mary lip-synching to Diana's vocals? Just a theoretical question, of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    ... would it be ... ungentlemanly ... for one to suggest that the true 'beyond bizarre' Supremes moment is Mary lip-synching to Diana's vocals? Just a theoretical question, of course.
    I don't remember that happening at Motown 25?

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    Keep in mind folks that the Mary Wilson of 1983 was not the same Mary Wilson of 1968, who put up with Diana and Berry monopolizing the Supremes. Mary had carried on the group, became a lead singer and eventually solo artist. And I think Diana was not prepared to share the stage with this new Mary Wilson and I believe that's why she never shared the stage with her again. Mary had come into her own and she was no longer the background singer in the Supremes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    I don't remember that happening at Motown 25?
    Because it didn't. But when your favorite Supreme's bad behavior is the topic of conversation, this is the response you get.

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    Quote Originally Posted by floyjoy678 View Post
    Keep in mind folks that the Mary Wilson of 1983 was not the same Mary Wilson of 1968, who put up with Diana and Berry monopolizing the Supremes. Mary had carried on the group, became a lead singer and eventually solo artist. And I think Diana was not prepared to share the stage with this new Mary Wilson and I believe that's why she never shared the stage with her again. Mary had come into her own and she was no longer the background singer in the Supremes.
    I agree with this 100 percent. When Diana realized that Mary and Cindy weren't playing their positions behind her, she lost it. I don't blame Mary [[or Cindy). The question begged to be asked: why did Diana need to stand in front of them anyway? She was one of the world's biggest stars. She was touring the world with her fantastic shows that she was the only attraction on. Cindy hadn't performed in who knows how long, and Mary was making do with sneezable gigs. Diana would leave Motown 25 and a few months later make headlines with Central Park. For one night she couldn't just be one of the Supremes?

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    This kind of reminds me of the incident in 2015 where Diana was recording the charity single “We Are Family” with a host of other famous performers.
    She reportedly had a mini meltdown when Eartha Kit and Angelique Kidjo suddenly became the centre of attention. It was said to be a lessen remembered as the spotlight shifted to the two other women.
    Considering what a talented and much loved performer Diana really is, it’s all rather sad.

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    I believe the We Are Family charity single was recorded in late 2001/early 2002 as wasn't it suppose to be a fundraiser for 9/11 related charities?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spreadinglove21 View Post
    I believe the We Are Family charity single was recorded in late 2001/early 2002 as wasn't it suppose to be a fundraiser for 9/11 related charities?
    Absolutely correct. Time passes real quickly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spreadinglove21 View Post
    I believe the We Are Family charity single was recorded in late 2001/early 2002 as wasn't it suppose to be a fundraiser for 9/11 related charities?
    The session got a lot of coverage. I remember seeing photos of Diana and Patti LaBelle holding hands. During the press conference, Diana seemed really shaken by what had happened on 9/11 and [I think] relayed one of her daughter's experiences as one of those who had to walk out of the city after the attack. At one point, she just seemed totally drained and said "Can we just sing?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    The session got a lot of coverage. I remember seeing photos of Diana and Patti LaBelle holding hands. During the press conference, Diana seemed really shaken by what had happened on 9/11 and [I think] relayed one of her daughter's experiences as one of those who had to walk out of the city after the attack. At one point, she just seemed totally drained and said "Can we just sing?"
    Thank you, Reese. I didn’t know this. A positive post with a view to the humanity we all share.

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    i don't think it's wildly scandalous or criminal that a lead singer is positioned separately from the group. there were times they worked the staging so that the trio was positioned together around 1 mic and also where they were spread out. look at the choreography for YCHL. both on the Sullivan show and in the clips from the Orient trip. or when they did People. And when Mary did Can't Take My Eyes, she was also positioned separately from the group.

    the Vandellas did this. The Miracles did this. the Temps did this. The Tops did this. GKATP did this. the Marvelettes did this. the Crystals did this. the Shangri Las did this. the Jackson's did this. the Police did this. the Go Gos did this. En Vogue did this. Destiny's Child did this. the Backstreet Boys did this. Duran Duran did this. etc etc etc etc etc etc

    so why is it so appalling this Diana just moved to her typical spot? she seemed genuinely happy when Mary and Cindy arrived on stage. she'd grinning and has her arms around them. but it was time to start singing and she just stepped up as usual. M and C weren't placed back in the orchestra, without spotlights like backing singers were in Diana's stage act [[or let's not forget how M or Pedro or someone did that to S and S during the You Heart Of Me segment on Mike Douglas).

    i think the comment earlier that the staging was probably planned for this set up. that's where the cameras were angled and the lighting staged. while in hindsight it wasn't probably the best reaction to do onstage, i do think Diana was simply trying to say "you're supposed to be here while i'm over here, that way everything works" it wasn't probably "hey you stupid whore - back the fuck up where you belong"

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i don't think it's wildly scandalous or criminal that a lead singer is positioned separately from the group. there were times they worked the staging so that the trio was positioned together around 1 mic and also where they were spread out. look at the choreography for YCHL. both on the Sullivan show and in the clips from the Orient trip. or when they did People. And when Mary did Can't Take My Eyes, she was also positioned separately from the group.

    the Vandellas did this. The Miracles did this. the Temps did this. The Tops did this. GKATP did this. the Marvelettes did this. the Crystals did this. the Shangri Las did this. the Jackson's did this. the Police did this. the Go Gos did this. En Vogue did this. Destiny's Child did this. the Backstreet Boys did this. Duran Duran did this. etc etc etc etc etc etc

    so why is it so appalling this Diana just moved to her typical spot? she seemed genuinely happy when Mary and Cindy arrived on stage. she'd grinning and has her arms around them. but it was time to start singing and she just stepped up as usual. M and C weren't placed back in the orchestra, without spotlights like backing singers were in Diana's stage act [[or let's not forget how M or Pedro or someone did that to S and S during the You Heart Of Me segment on Mike Douglas).

    i think the comment earlier that the staging was probably planned for this set up. that's where the cameras were angled and the lighting staged. while in hindsight it wasn't probably the best reaction to do onstage, i do think Diana was simply trying to say "you're supposed to be here while i'm over here, that way everything works" it wasn't probably "hey you stupid whore - back the fuck up where you belong"
    I would agree re the staging of the groups. In the other performances on MOTOWN 25, with the possible exception of the Tempts/Tops medley, the lead singer is set apart from their fellow group members. I guess Diana's way of trying to correct this was the problem. It looked so nice when the three were hugged up singing SOMEDAY. It's too bad it fell apart so quickly and so publicly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carlo View Post
    If you have a good eye, at 7:03 mark in the video below, you can see a brief shot of the entire stage, and you can see Diana is turned around to Mary, with her back to the audience [look at the center of that shot and you'll see a bit of Mary's red gown and Diana is in silver]. It seems that her arm was lowered, toward Mary, and then Diana suddenly turns back to the audience, and flicks her hair back, with the footage transitioning to the up close shot of Diana, asking Berry to come down to the stage. I believe this would have been the moment when Mary had prematurely called Berry to come down to the stage, and then Diana turned around and shoved down Mary's microphone from her face, telling her, "It's already been taken care of".

    Despite all of the editing and cutting they did, I've noticed this brief moment for years, in the video of the special. Most would never notice it, unless you're looking for it and know what transpired on stage that evening...

    https://youtu.be/0k0gaCYJgwo


    Ive been watching that over and over. Diana looks to be giving Mary an earful. Lots of necessary editing here, from which to salvage very little.
    As for SOMEDAY WE'LL BE TOGETHER .....was that the right song choice? I get that they are together again, that the someday is here. But as the Supremes' only song .....they sound terrible [where are The Andantes when you need them??]. They could've saved that song and segued into it just for the grand finale chorus.

    Who kisses Diana at 7:53.? I want to guess Norman Whitfield, but his being there seems highly unlikely ...
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 11-08-2022 at 12:28 PM.

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    i think having the girls positioned around 1 mic was an effective staging at times. i don't think it would be necessary with every song and every performance. and it could certainly be possible that as plans really took off to develop DR as a single star, the 1 mic idea became less and less part of the act.

    but during Someday on Sullivan they were using this approach for part of the song. they start out with Diana ahead of M and C. but then on the bridge they step forward and join Diana and are staggered for the side camera view. Again, this is the importance of hitting your marks properly. the cameras were positioned so they could first do the front view of the girls [[looking at their side), then transition to the side camera which was a view of the girls face-on but staggered.

    then after the bridge, Cindy pivots and faces diana, who turns facing forward. now the 3 of them are all bunched together, looking like the closest of sisters.

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