The Soul Train Gang! YWSSL

[marybrewster]

https://youtu.be/OxUTOgfAMvQ

[sup_fan]

this is a song i've grown to like more and more. the lp and single version are fine enough but nothing spectacular. I do like the funkier sound and all. as i've mentioned, i think the addition of Smokey's voice on the track only served to make it a weird record and very un-supremes sounding. and that might have been part of the reason for it's poor charting

the flip wilson version and a couple of live versions from bootleg concerts give this song much more life. Lynda and Mary rock on the backing vocals with Lynda's soprano really sorting at the bridge. they used it as their intro number with the guitar vamping an extended version of the intro. Jean also spices it up a little with some more syncopation and ad libs. but nothing too off the melody. makes for a fun song

[blackguy69]

This one has Don’s introduction

this is a song i've grown to like more and more. the lp and single version are fine enough but nothing spectacular. I do like the funkier sound and all. as i've mentioned, i think the addition of Smokey's voice on the track only served to make it a weird record and very un-supremes sounding. and that might have been part of the reason for it's poor charting

the flip wilson version and a couple of live versions from bootleg concerts give this song much more life. Lynda and Mary rock on the backing vocals with Lynda's soprano really sorting at the bridge. they used it as their intro number with the guitar vamping an extended version of the intro. Jean also spices it up a little with some more syncopation and ad libs. but nothing too off the melody. makes for a fun song

[blackguy69]

this one has Don’s introduction

[marybrewster]

It appeared to go over pretty well on the dance floor.

[sup_fan]

It appeared to go over pretty well on the dance floor.

agreed. perfect song to do the bump to!

with the MW anthology we just got, both FJ and AS had their full instrumentation included. it's startling and fascinating to hear these releases versus the originals. it's a much fuller and exciting sound.

wonder what the unedited YWSSL sounds like!!

[Ollie9]

Will never understand why this lively little number didn’t do better. Perhaps for additional pop appeal it just needed to be a smidgeon faster.
Like “Floy Joy”, i think it should have featured a shared lead between Mary and Jean. The novelty value would have made it stand out more.

[RanRan79]

It appeared to go over pretty well on the dance floor.

It just barely missed the r&b top 20.

[sup_fan]

Will never understand why this lively little number didn’t do better. Perhaps for additional pop appeal it just needed to be a smidgeon faster.
Like “Floy Joy”, i think it should have featured a shared lead between Mary and Jean. The novelty value would have made it stand out more.

i really think Smokey's voice was a culprit. if you pulled Jean's vocals off the record and played the backing tracks and vocals, this could be the Elgins or the Monitors or a totally different group. Same thing with the JW album - it wasn't a Sups sound.

previously when they added vocals, it still sounded like the Sups [[more or less). Love Child might be the one that was the bigger reach - that high pitched AHHHHHHHH was nothing like a previous Sup sound and certainly nothing M or C could reproduce. maybe Flo could have. but in general, the tracks on Cream of the Crop or Right On that use other vocalists, still have the general Sup sound. YWSSL does not

i think dual or group leads could have worked here too. that's a cool idea. personally i think jean should have done the majority of the vocals and M and C chime in, taking a line here or there. i'm not as huge of a fan of the duet style approach with only J and M.

[Ollie9]

i really think Smokey's voice was a culprit. if you pulled Jean's vocals off the record and played the backing tracks and vocals, this could be the Elgins or the Monitors or a totally different group. Same thing with the JW album - it wasn't a Sups sound.

previously when they added vocals, it still sounded like the Sups [[more or less). Love Child might be the one that was the bigger reach - that high pitched AHHHHHHHH was nothing like a previous Sup sound and certainly nothing M or C could reproduce. maybe Flo could have. but in general, the tracks on Cream of the Crop or Right On that use other vocalists, still have the general Sup sound. YWSSL does not

i think dual or group leads could have worked here too. that's a cool idea. personally i think jean should have done the majority of the vocals and M and C chime in, taking a line here or there. i'm not as huge of a fan of the duet style approach with only J and M.

As regard recordings, I’ve always thought both Mary and Cindy should have been featured far more then they actually were Circa 70-73. Jean was a fine singer, but her voice can become a little grating at times. Sure they were given more to do when compared with DR&TS, but still not enough imo.
I think it rather sad that Cindy wasn’t allowed just one lead on “The Supremes” 75 album.

[marybrewster]

For all Cindy had done for the group and Mary, there should have been a push to feature her more, either in concert or recording. I think it was around this time that Cindy finally did get "Baby Love" in the Supremes medley. But who knows? Maybe Cindy didn't have those aspirations?

[Ollie9]

I would be amazed if she hadn’t been thrilled to be given at least one lead, especially as by 75 she had been a Supreme for almost eight years.

[reese]

For all Cindy had done for the group and Mary, there should have been a push to feature her more, either in concert or recording. I think it was around this time that Cindy finally did get "Baby Love" in the Supremes medley. But who knows? Maybe Cindy didn't have those aspirations?

In SUPREME FAITH, Mary wrote that Cindy had changed when she returned to the group in 1973. She felt that Cindy's marital problems were affecting her performances.

Mary also wrote that when they called in Phil Moore to redo their act, Cindy became upset when she realized she had no solos. She ended up getting a solo part in one number, which in Mary's view was "fine and fair." It had never dawned on Mary that Cindy wanted to sing lead. They had never discussed it and Mary didn't object to it.

[bradsupremes]

i really think Smokey's voice was a culprit. if you pulled Jean's vocals off the record and played the backing tracks and vocals, this could be the Elgins or the Monitors or a totally different group. Same thing with the JW album - it wasn't a Sups sound.

previously when they added vocals, it still sounded like the Sups [[more or less). Love Child might be the one that was the bigger reach - that high pitched AHHHHHHHH was nothing like a previous Sup sound and certainly nothing M or C could reproduce. maybe Flo could have. but in general, the tracks on Cream of the Crop or Right On that use other vocalists, still have the general Sup sound. YWSSL does not

i think dual or group leads could have worked here too. that's a cool idea. personally i think jean should have done the majority of the vocals and M and C chime in, taking a line here or there. i'm not as huge of a fan of the duet style approach with only J and M.

But do you really think the public didn't like the record because of Smokey's voice? It's predominately Mary & Cindy with Smokey joining on the chorus and he's buried in the mix. It certainly sounds like a Supremes record to me. I really don't think his voice being on it had any affect on how the song charted. Just three years earlier Johnny Bristol's voice was on "Someday" and that song did just fine chart-wise.

Like "Bad Weather," I think what could have served this song better was if it was just a tad bit faster. Regardless, I've always preferred this song and surprised it didn't do better on the charts. If you watch the Soul Train crowd, they were certainly getting down to it. It's possible with Cindy's departure and Motown turning its resources into getting Lady Sings The Blues promoted that it could have played an effect. I don't know but I certainly don't think its because it was a bad record or that Smokey was on it. I know people love "Automatically Sunshine," but that song has such a dirge sound to it and I can't believe that did better. This was upbeat and had a groove. I wonder if it would have done better as the follow-up to "Floy Joy."

[sup_fan]

But do you really think the public didn't like the record because of Smokey's voice? It's predominately Mary & Cindy with Smokey joining on the chorus and he's buried in the mix. It certainly sounds like a Supremes record to me. I really don't think his voice being on it had any affect on how the song charted. Just three years earlier Johnny Bristol's voice was on "Someday" and that song did just fine chart-wise.

Like "Bad Weather," I think what could have served this song better was if it was just a tad bit faster. Regardless, I've always preferred this song and surprised it didn't do better on the charts. If you watch the Soul Train crowd, they were certainly getting down to it. It's possible with Cindy's departure and Motown turning its resources into getting Lady Sings The Blues promoted that it could have played an effect. I don't know but I certainly don't think its because it was a bad record or that Smokey was on it. I know people love "Automatically Sunshine," but that song has such a dirge sound to it and I can't believe that did better. This was upbeat and had a groove. I wonder if it would have done better as the follow-up to "Floy Joy."

you points about Lady are very valid - forgot about that. also Motown was making the official move to LA so that probably had people's attention diverted too.

as for Smokey's voice, IMO to a casual listener it's not as obvious as say Johnny on Someday. there the male voice just does a few ad libs [[although Someday hardly sounds like a Supremes record either, with the gospel choir background). I just always found the choruses of YWSSL to sound odd with the male voice on it and to my ear it sounds like they did some sort of studio treatment or something to smokey's voice. it doesn't sound just like Smokey duetting with the Supremes. plus you also have the As added to the mix. when you compare the record to the Flip Wilson version, IMO it's a pretty drastic difference and the live one [[without the male voice) is superior.

lol and i love AS lol i think Always In My Heart from Sing HDH is the Supremes funeral dirge lol. to me AS is hippie groovy

[sup_fan]

i wish we had more of the timeline for what the girls were doing in the studio during 72. we have a good amount of dates for the whole FJ album, which was wrapped up by Feb or so. but then it's pretty much blank through the end of the year. we sort of have a general range of the JW sessions from March - June or so

MJL did the Dick Cavett show in June or so and talked about working with JW. but the album wasn't released until Nov. IGIMTM was released in mid Sept. seems like they held back the album for quite a while - maybe some at motown were having second thoughts? and Tossin seemed to quickly become part of the supremes act. i thought the 50s resurgence came around AFTER American Graffiti was released [[in Aug 73). so in 72 were people going "oldies" and playing tunes from the 50s? I would have thought they'd have picked another tune to start testing [[like maybe 530 plane) and then add Tossin as a fun addition. but for Tossin to be the only representative of the album, hmmm

and back to YWSSL - was it released as a single in July because they didn't want to move forward with a JW tune? 3 singles from 1 album wasn't unheard of but was more rare. of course this is Smokey so the more times his tunes are released, the more profit for him. also the fact that nearly every FJ song appears on a single [[either as A or B side) is also IMO part of the favoritism for Smokey

[Spreadinglove21]

I seem to recall reading [[probably here) that I Keep It Hid was given a couple of tries at the live show but dropped. Was I Guess I"ll Miss the Man part of the live show? They certainly had a great live version that they performed while promoting the single.

[sup_fan]

I seem to recall reading [[probably here) that I Keep It Hid was given a couple of tries at the live show but dropped. Was I Guess I"ll Miss the Man part of the live show? They certainly had a great live version that they performed while promoting the single.

interesting about IKIH. wonder what went wrong? why didn't it go over well?

I have the Dec 72 Apollo concert on tape. it's a short show since they were doing multiple a day, along with Eddie Kendricks. they not only do IGIMTM but an extended version of it. the "oooo's" verse gets repeated and so builds the song up into something a bit more substantiative. they do a lovely job on it

[TheMotownManiac]

i really think Smokey's voice was a culprit. if you pulled Jean's vocals off the record and played the backing tracks and vocals, this could be the Elgins or the Monitors or a totally different group. Same thing with the JW album - it wasn't a Sups sound.

previously when they added vocals, it still sounded like the Sups [[more or less). Love Child might be the one that was the bigger reach - that high pitched AHHHHHHHH was nothing like a previous Sup sound and certainly nothing M or C could reproduce. maybe Flo could have. but in general, the tracks on Cream of the Crop or Right On that use other vocalists, still have the general Sup sound. YWSSL does not

i think dual or group leads could have worked here too. that's a cool idea. personally i think jean should have done the majority of the vocals and M and C chime in, taking a line here or there. i'm not as huge of a fan of the duet style approach with only J and M.

I understand that smoky was trying to get a fuller sound, but I agree with you his voice, if anything, might’ve made it worse

I think this song is fine but jeans vocals are fine except she’s not being succinct with her lyrics enough for them to be understood easily. And, when I first heard it, I liked it but I couldn’t imagine it being a hit record. I actually didn’t like the sound of Mary and Cindy on it. I think that sound hurt the record because it was roughly textured and not all that pleasant sounding to me anyway I would’ve liked a brighter sound. Mary and Florence brought life to the background and I did not get that from Mary and Cindy. I think it’s a shame that they couldn’t add Florence to the vocals that were cut in Detroit in the 70s. She didn’t have to tour with them but she sure would’ve helped those records out a great deal and given her a little money.

[RanRan79]

Mary and Florence brought life to the background and I did not get that from Mary and Cindy. I think it’s a shame that they couldn’t add Florence to the vocals that were cut in Detroit in the 70s. She didn’t have to tour with them but she sure would’ve helped those records out a great deal and given her a little money.

Great idea, except Florence wouldn't have wanted anything to do with Motown, and the feeling was very mutual. But it's an interesting what if, had Flo parted with the group and the label on good terms, she being utilized in the studio. Didn't Claudette of the Miracles have a similar set up with the group after she stopped performing with them?

[reese]

Great idea, except Florence wouldn't have wanted anything to do with Motown, and the feeling was very mutual. But it's an interesting what if, had Flo parted with the group and the label on good terms, she being utilized in the studio. Didn't Claudette of the Miracles have a similar set up with the group after she stopped performing with them?

To my knowledge, Claudette continued recording with the Miracles until Smokey left.

I was recently watching one of TJ's PBS specials on which the Miracles appear. Claudette sang with the guys while they did some of their 60s material. But she left the stage when they performed LOVE MACHINE.

[sup_fan]

I understand that smoky was trying to get a fuller sound, but I agree with you his voice, if anything, might’ve made it worse

I think this song is fine but jeans vocals are fine except she’s not being succinct with her lyrics enough for them to be understood easily. And, when I first heard it, I liked it but I couldn’t imagine it being a hit record. I actually didn’t like the sound of Mary and Cindy on it. I think that sound hurt the record because it was roughly textured and not all that pleasant sounding to me anyway I would’ve liked a brighter sound. Mary and Florence brought life to the background and I did not get that from Mary and Cindy. I think it’s a shame that they couldn’t add Florence to the vocals that were cut in Detroit in the 70s. She didn’t have to tour with them but she sure would’ve helped those records out a great deal and given her a little money.

see i hear the opposite. I know Frank used other vocalists to some degree but i'm still convinced that much of the work involves JMC and layering of the vocals. Frank was going for a more ethereal vocal sound from the girls combined [[or maybe even juxtaposed) with a heavier rock sound. Cindy's lighter second soprano was perfect for this. and even Jean's soprano has a lightness to it that Flo's didn't. i'm sure i'm not going to describe it right but flo's voice is a thicker heavier sound. whereas Jean's has a brightness which lightens it a bit. so on Ladder, SL, Thank him for today, loving country, together we can make, etc, the combo of MJC is perfect. a MJF or MFC combo wouldn't have been as perfect. not saying they'd be bad but not the ideal

Maniac - i know we've shared differing views on NW but i think, with a few minor tweaks, it would have made an amazing album. what we got was just a good album. it a fusion of these ethereal vocals [[which enriches the whole god, peace love theme), rock, r&b and opera. a couple of changes to the song lineup and it would have been a masterpiece.

Side 1 would stay the same except maybe go ahead and cut the sound effects on Bridge. the foghorn is a bit much

Side 2 i would start with Time and Love, Is There a Place, Baby Baby from Right On [[would have been easily replaced by something like The Day Will Come or Steppin On A Dream) Shine on Me, Thank Him For Today.

[sup_fan]

after the Frank albums, i find the FJ album a welcomed change. the Frank albums are amazing, but let's admit it. there is a LOT going on in his productions. you could easily argue there are times they're over produced. so the stripped down simplicity of the FJ set makes for a nice change IMO.

after hearing the alt versions of FJ and AS on the Mary Wilson anthology though, i wonder if they're too stripped down. the added instrumentation gives them a fuller sound but without becoming overwhelming. also the album was rather short. i think adding a few lengthier tracks or album-versions of the singles would have been great

[reese]

after the Frank albums, i find the FJ album a welcomed change. the Frank albums are amazing, but let's admit it. there is a LOT going on in his productions. you could easily argue there are times they're over produced. so the stripped down simplicity of the FJ set makes for a nice change IMO.

after hearing the alt versions of FJ and AS on the Mary Wilson anthology though, i wonder if they're too stripped down. the added instrumentation gives them a fuller sound but without becoming overwhelming. also the album was rather short. i think adding a few lengthier tracks or album-versions of the singles would have been great

I must admit that the FLOY JOY album was not one that I ever got into. I don't think it is bad, mind you. Aside from the title track, it just never grabbed me in the way the earlier JMC albums did. In recent years, I've listened to it some more and have grown to like OVER AND OVER but I still rarely play it.

[sup_fan]

I must admit that the FLOY JOY album was not one that I ever got into. I don't think it is bad, mind you. Aside from the title track, it just never grabbed me in the way the earlier JMC albums did. In recent years, I've listened to it some more and have grown to like OVER AND OVER but I still rarely play it.

i will admit that the consistency between songs could creep into the area of monotony. A Heart Like Mine, Precious Little, Over and Over, Oh be my love. these four songs don't have a huge amount of variance. but then Now the bitter, FJ, AS and YWSSL help break things up. again, expanding some of the tracks and building up more of the instrumentals might have added more peaks and valleys to the overall album