A declined 1982 supremes' re-union ??

[sup_fan]

to me, this whole story sort of smacks of the "Marvin Gaye will be producing Mary's first solo album" lots and lots and lots of "news" is dropped out into the public domain by publicists, PR men, artists, etc. much of it is simply to general immediate news activity - not any real claim of an upcoming project.

also other than any rumors in Jet or other magazines, isn't Mary just about the only real source of this. yes i know it's in Randy's book but is that just an interview with Mary? have others in the motown office or Cindy or Scherrie made any acknowledgement of this?

now lets say it was true. Suzanne and others were trying to repeat the Temps reunion. my guess is that they were already developing plans for Motown 25 the next year and one of the culminating moments of that show was to be the Supremes' reunion with DMC. while they knew that combo would never be able to tour and record, perhaps they figured the SMC would at least get some dates and sell some records. a flash in the pan and then done.

I do find Mary's logic about deciding not to do the tour because of what she had accomplished as a solo a bit odd. to be blunt, there was very little accomplished at this point. 1 mediocre album on motown, 4 very strong Gus tracks, and random touring around the world with her Supremes' show. i know she was still heavily shopping for a label but there was no interest. so wouldn't it have made financial sense to pursue this?

[smallworld]

Rather than a reunion on record, which would have been a nonstarter with Motown vs. RCA, a Supremes TV movie might have been fun. If Joan Rivers could play herself in a TV movie, why not the Supremes? It would have been a nice way to "take back" their story after Dreamgirls made its mark on Broadway and beyond, and it might have mended the relationship between Mary and Diana. The only question is: Who would play Florence?

[reese]

Rather than a reunion on record, which would have been a nonstarter with Motown vs. RCA, a Supremes TV movie might have been fun. If Joan Rivers could play herself in a TV movie, why not the Supremes? It would have been a nice way to "take back" their story after Dreamgirls made its mark on Broadway and beyond, and it might have mended the relationship between Mary and Diana. The only question is: Who would play Florence?

According to J. Randy's CALL HER MISS ROSS, at some point in the 80s, Suzanne dePasse was trying to produce a Supremes biography for television. At the time Cindy was not doing well financially. When Diana found out, she procrastinated her approval of the project long enough for Cindy to get $30,000 for her part in the story, which she didn't have to return.

I always thought an AMERICAN MASTERS type of documentary on the group would be interesting. But I fear that varying viewpoints might make it a headache for whoever decided to produce it.

[thanxal]

t lots and lots and lots of "news" is dropped out into the public domain by publicists, PR men, artists, etc. much of it is simply to general immediate news activity - not any real claim of an upcoming project.

You are absolutely spot-on and I often wonder how much received "wisdom" on any given topic is exactly such fluff and guster - unattributable to any reputable source but repeated enough that it becomes an accepted fact. I think there is far more of it than most people realize or are willing to admit.

[bradsupremes]

I always thought an AMERICAN MASTERS type of documentary on the group would be interesting. But I fear that varying viewpoints might make it a headache for whoever decided to produce it.

I have reached out to PBS and the team behind American Masters several times about this but never got a response. To me, the fact there is no in-depth, thorough documentary about them is rather criminal. And I don't want to hear the "there's no demand for it" argument. People aren't clamoring for documentaries on the American buffalo, but you got one coming out from Ken Burns in the next few years that no doubt will be incredible. Done correctly, a Supremes documentary could win awards and be a huge success. I've always felt a Ken Burns style documentary on them could be profound. There's a way to tell their story without Diana coming out looking like a villain and Mary and Florence the victim. Everyone is going to come out with a little dirt on them. That's life and their story but done truthfully it's not going to damage anyone. Their impact, influence, and success they achieved needs to be emphasized greatly because frankly they don't get enough credit for what they did. And you have to tell the whole story. The 70s years can't be glossed over. Use the ladies as sources but none of them nor their families should be involved especially if we want their story done correctly. The thing is you need to right people behind it and the right people leading it. It can't be people who are unwilling to allow folks like Andy, George, etc. have a creative say. Excluding folks who know their story would just be asinine.

Two things stand in the way though: Berry Gordy and Diana Ross. Gordy has the grand rights over usage of the music used in TV commercials, movies, documentaries, etc. If there is going to be a Supremes documentary, you have to tell the truth and Gordy is not going to come out in the best light. He's not going to ever sign off the usage of music in something that's going to make him look bad. I imagine once Gordy passes away there won't be an obstacle on getting rights to the music. Ross is the other obstacle although probably not so much to the extent Gordy has in preventing the usage of music. She may try to do stop a documentary going forward but I imagine at 78 years old she's not going to put up a fight like she may have done when she was 50.

[Boogiedown]

I like pop music, so the pop chart is something I consider at times. Being Black makes the R&B chart more important because the information contained within is more of a mark of what myself and my loved ones, and even the broader Black community, were digging at one time or another. Unfortunately, what's popular to us isn't always considered popular until someone else deems it so, i.e. making it popular among themselves. And if they don't view it as popular, and are able to back it up with poor pop chart showings, it isn't popular, or successful, despite what the r&b chart might say. Some people buy into that, I, however, do not. That's why I can look at the fact that Stephanie Mills' "I Feel Good All Over" completely missed the pop charts, but let that sista enter a room- any room- full of Black folks and start that intro...watch what happens. Success.

Stephanie Mills is fantastic. Disco had always been very supportive of her. I have no idea what the need is for this us verses them tone being presented here. The pop chart has always been wonderfully inclusive.
Success can be measured in
many ways and in many degrees. Yes TREAT HER did well on the R&B chart which is one way of measuring success. If success is measured by sales obviously being a hit on the Pop chart broadens your exposure and your audience [=sales from product and concert attendance ]

By Motowns own goals and standards , The temptations not breaking the Top 40 as was their norm would be a disappointment and seen as less successful

I’m happy to say I have never once listened to
music based on skin color from any angle for any reason, Never not once …. and the bravado expressed here about doing so ….Well let it marinade in
of itself

[kenneth]

I have reached out to PBS and the team behind American Masters several times about this but never got a response. To me, the fact there is no in-depth, thorough documentary about them is rather criminal. And I don't want to hear the "there's no demand for it" argument. People aren't clamoring for documentaries on the American buffalo, but you got one coming out from Ken Burns in the next few years that no doubt will be incredible. Done correctly, a Supremes documentary could win awards and be a huge success.

The idea of Ken Burns helming a doc on either the Supremes or better yet, on Motown itself, is extremely intriguing to think about. He can make any subject fascinating and the docs he's done on music have been especially compelling. In addition to "Jazz," didn't he also do the series on Country and Western music? It was excellent. I think I watched it all the way through twice.

[bradsupremes]

The idea of Ken Burns helming a doc on either the Supremes or better yet, on Motown itself, is extremely intriguing to think about. He can make any subject fascinating and the docs he's done on music have been especially compelling. In addition to "Jazz," didn't he also do the series on Country and Western music? It was excellent. I think I watched it all the way through twice.

His documentaries are the gold standard. The vast majority of his documentaries usually center on American history subjects [[the Civil War, the Brooklyn Bridge, the Vietnam War, Thomas Jefferson, the Roosevelts, just to name a few). Any topics dealing with popular culture are usually ones who have played an integral part in American history - thus documentaries on people like Muhammad Ali, Ernest Hemingway, and music like jazz and country. Jazz was a 10-part, 19 hour series. Country Music was a 8-part, 16 hours. He could easily do a 2-part, 4 hour documentary on the Supremes. The same with Motown. A real in-depth look at the record empire - that would most definitely be a 4-6 part series but you have the obstacle of Berry Gordy who won't sign off on the music rights especially if we're talking about the truth and what really happened. Burns isn't one to sugarcoat and Gordy will not look good in parts of it.

Burns has years of documentaries in the works and I'm sure he's booked up to 2028 with yearly documentaries on topics like the American Revolution and LBJ & the Great Society. If he ever did documentary on the ladies or Motown we may not see it until the 2030s.

[telekin]

I know a lot of fans have been clamouring for a major biopic, but I've always thought a documentary would be the best approach to really nail down the full complexity of The Supremes' story. Personally, I've always found biopics to be overrated - messy, incomplete and often one-sided. Inevitably there's always some dramatic license taken depicting a true story, and I can only imagine how many feathers would end up getting ruffled in that process.

to me, this whole story sort of smacks of the "Marvin Gaye will be producing Mary's first solo album" lots and lots and lots of "news" is dropped out into the public domain by publicists, PR men, artists, etc. much of it is simply to general immediate news activity - not any real claim of an upcoming project.

[...]

I do find Mary's logic about deciding not to do the tour because of what she had accomplished as a solo a bit odd. to be blunt, there was very little accomplished at this point. 1 mediocre album on motown, 4 very strong Gus tracks, and random touring around the world with her Supremes' show. i know she was still heavily shopping for a label but there was no interest. so wouldn't it have made financial sense to pursue this?

I'm not sure why I would disbelieve her either? If it was just a PR stunt [[there are mentions in Jet, and probably others at the time) I'm not sure why Mary would later include it in her book if it didn't actually happen, or wasn't even proposed to her.

I remember that line about not wanting to leave what she'd accomplished as a solo artist, but I don't think the accomplishment needs to be that prestigious. I mean, the accomplishment was making a living for herself and her family, getting her show back on the road after her divorce [[which didn't leave her with much, from what I understand) and running her own business without having to answer to Motown, her husband or anyone else. I mean, she'd just left one abusive relationship, I doubt she'd be willing to just walk into another.

Perhaps in retrospect it wouldn't have hurt to have another record out there. At that point in time, I doubt she'd have been quick to just have yet another kick at the can at Motown - it would be her third by that time - without some extra assurance of their commitment. Certainly not after the bitter experience both as a solo and from the latter-day Supremes.

[reese]

to me, this whole story sort of smacks of the "Marvin Gaye will be producing Mary's first solo album" lots and lots and lots of "news" is dropped out into the public domain by publicists, PR men, artists, etc. much of it is simply to general immediate news activity - not any real claim of an upcoming project.

also other than any rumors in Jet or other magazines, isn't Mary just about the only real source of this. yes i know it's in Randy's book but is that just an interview with Mary? have others in the motown office or Cindy or Scherrie made any acknowledgement of this?

This potential reunion info might have been a plant by Motown or Mary to see what public interest there could be. Maybe not.

I don't remember J. Randy ever writing about it. Besides Mary's SUPREME FAITH, the only place I recall reading about it was in JET magazine. I think the JET item also mentioned that Cindy was looking for a gospel contract through her company Joy Enterprises.

[sup_fan]

there is MAYBE a glimmer of possibility that with the massive success of the broadway show Dreamgirls in late 81, some people at Motown might have thought "hey let's jump on this bandwagon and make some money" but given motown's total disinterest in the Supremes post Diana and how everything that was being reissued by the 60s grouping was always being labeled DRATS [[often with DIANA ROSS in larger font even) i can't imagine that at any Sr level of the company, anyone was considering this.

the Temps reunion album was released in 82. production of the movie The Big Chill began in 82 and they utilized a lot of Motown music so they would have been working with the company to gain licenses. Plans were in the works for Motown 25. So i could see in some lower-level company meeting people were brainstorming "what else can we do?" and someone said "hey let's get the Sups back together too"

prior to Mary's lawsuits, it was clear Motown has 0 interest in her other than a backing singer. Berry was always big on loyalty and her lawsuits had to be viewed as nothing short of heretical. and any reformation of the group would have to include mary and she would have to be in a larger role than what she was in the 60s. so that means that even if she wasn't the official lead, she'd be doing much to manage the group and all. so they'd be working closely with her and by the 80s none of them wanted that

[BayouMotownMan]

The idea was Suzanne dePasse's who approached Mary with the notion of a reunion. Mary wanted the reunion to include Scherrie and Cindy. As Mary was prone to doing she gave interviews to the press basically making it sound like it was a serious issue.

When Mary finally approached Berry he had just lost Ross to RCA Records and it was a sore spot to talk Supremes. Also, the Temptations Reunion, while successful was not without serious headaches with in-group squabbles and singers not showing up. All of this ate into the profits. It was obvious that Gordy was not in favor of this.

As far as album talks with Scherrie singing leads, I had never heard this. I don't know if it went that far. Also in 1982, dePasse was working with Gwen Gordy to try and desperately re-ignite the recording careers of High Inergy, who had been floundering for years. A tour with Diana Ross was planned but never executed. All in all both ideas went down the toilet.

[Ollie9]

The idea was Suzanne dePasse's who approached Mary with the notion of a reunion. Mary wanted the reunion to include Scherrie and Cindy. As Mary was prone to doing she gave interviews to the press basically making it sound like it was a serious issue.

When Mary finally approached Berry he had just lost Ross to RCA Records and it was a sore spot to talk Supremes. Also, the Temptations Reunion, while successful was not without serious headaches with in-group squabbles and singers not showing up. All of this ate into the profits. It was obvious that Gordy was not in favor of this.

As far as album talks with Scherrie singing leads, I had never heard this. I don't know if it went that far. Also in 1982, dePasse was working with Gwen Gordy to try and desperately re-ignite the recording careers of High Inergy, who had been floundering for years. A tour with Diana Ross was planned but never executed. All in all both ideas went down the toilet.

A Diana Ross tour with the Supremes as opposed to High Energy as support might have proved rather fun. For fans at least .

[reese]

Interesting info re High Inergy as an opening act for Diana in the early 80s.

Before Diana's 1982 World Tour, I recall reading that the Jones Girls were going to be the opening act and would be doing backup vocals as well. This was a surprise as they had had a few hits by then. It didn't happen but now I wonder if the story I read actually meant High Inergy?

[BayouMotownMan]

A Diana Ross tour with the Supremes as opposed to High Energy as support might have proved rather fun. For fans at least .

There was never a possibility of Ross doing a Supremes reunion with Mary and Cindy in 1982, she was hot at RCA and in strained relations with Gordy

[BayouMotownMan]

Interesting info re High Inergy as an opening act for Diana in the early 80s.

Before Diana's 1982 World Tour, I recall reading that the Jones Girls were going to be the opening act and would be doing backup vocals as well. This was a surprise as they had had a few hits by then. It didn't happen but now I wonder if the story I read actually meant High Inergy?

Diana Ross attended a dinner at Gwen Gordy's home to meet with and discuss High Inergy touring Europe with her and get them some exposure. During the dinner she was critical of the girls, especially lead singer Barbara. The night before they were to embark on the tour the girls spent the night at Gwen's, kissed their families goodbye and woke up the next morning to the news that Ross left without them. The reason? She claimed she could not get them insured. What was more likely is she didn't want to help another group of competitors.

[reese]

Diana Ross attended a dinner at Gwen Gordy's home to meet with and discuss High Inergy touring Europe with her and get them some exposure. During the dinner she was critical of the girls, especially lead singer Barbara. The night before they were to embark on the tour the girls spent the night at Gwen's, kissed their families goodbye and woke up the next morning to the news that Ross left without them. The reason? She claimed she could not get them insured. What was more likely is she didn't want to help another group of competitors.

That must have been quite a disappointment for them.

As I think of it, I don't remember Diana having an opening act at any of the 80s concerts of hers that I attended. In fact, some ads would say something like "No opening act. Miss Ross' concert will start promptly at 7:30pm."

[Ollie9]

There was never a possibility of Ross doing a Supremes reunion with Mary and Cindy in 1982, she was hot at RCA and in strained relations with Gordy

Had it transpired, i was thinking more the Supremes as support then a reunion tour. It would have generated tons of publicity, with the Supremes to benefit more.
As Diana had to be practically begged to appear on Motown 25, i agree the likelihood wouldn’t have been great.

[floyjoy678]

Nope Nope Nope and as I have said many times when Flo left us so did any chance of a reunion. Someone had to be the in between Supreme and that was Flo. Mary and Diana were not going to agree or compromise after all these years unless that third Supreme who was around from the beginning to knock some sense into them [[literally). This has nothing to do or against Cindy because we all love Cindy but it just ws nit going to happen. Mary had her reasons and Diana had hers and it was just not going to happen.

I completely agree. I always thought that if Flo had lived a longer life, we would have had a successful Supremes reunion. She wasn't going to put up with Diana and Mary being 50 years old still acting like little girls.

[Ollie9]

Diana Ross attended a dinner at Gwen Gordy's home to meet with and discuss High Inergy touring Europe with her and get them some exposure. During the dinner she was critical of the girls, especially lead singer Barbara. The night before they were to embark on the tour the girls spent the night at Gwen's, kissed their families goodbye and woke up the next morning to the news that Ross left without them. The reason? She claimed she could not get them insured. What was more likely is she didn't want to help another group of competitors.

The group must have been totally devastated. What a total waste of their time it would have been, rehearsing and preparing themselves for such a major event. Not nice.

[BayouMotownMan]

The group must have been totally devastated. What a total waste of their time it would have been, rehearsing and preparing themselves for such a major event. Not nice.

Indeed they were devastated. After rehearsals and new costumes, they had to eat it

[khansperac]

I’m sorry but that story doesn’t make sense at all.

[Ollie9]

Indeed they were devastated. After rehearsals and new costumes, they had to eat it

One can only assume the group were financially compensated for such a last minute cancellation of their services. They must have had a contract, so could otherwise sue for damages. So much for reach out and touch.

[marybrewster]

Has there ever been a SUCCESSFUL reunion of a 50s/60s/70s girl group? Perhaps LaBelle? But look at groups like The Shirelles; Shirley, Beverly, and Doris all had their own groups. Ronnie hit the road with new Ronettes in the 70s and 80s, and Martha has had :hundreds: of Vandellas.

[reese]

Has there ever been a SUCCESSFUL reunion of a 50s/60s/70s girl group? Perhaps LaBelle? But look at groups like The Shirelles; Shirley, Beverly, and Doris all had their own groups. Ronnie hit the road with new Ronettes in the 70s and 80s, and Martha has had :hundreds: of Vandellas.

The Velvelettes.

[floyjoy678]

Has there ever been a SUCCESSFUL reunion of a 50s/60s/70s girl group? Perhaps LaBelle? But look at groups like The Shirelles; Shirley, Beverly, and Doris all had their own groups. Ronnie hit the road with new Ronettes in the 70s and 80s, and Martha has had :hundreds: of Vandellas.

Martha has reunited with Annette and Rosalind and performed with them for years at one point.

The Ronettes did reunite in a way for the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame induction. Nedra lost interest in performing even before the group broke up back in the day and Estelle had mental issues.

[BayouMotownMan]

I have reached out to PBS and the team behind American Masters several times about this but never got a response. To me, the fact there is no in-depth, thorough documentary about them is rather criminal. And I don't want to hear the "there's no demand for it" argument. People aren't clamoring for documentaries on the American buffalo, but you got one coming out from Ken Burns in the next few years that no doubt will be incredible. Done correctly, a Supremes documentary could win awards and be a huge success. I've always felt a Ken Burns style documentary on them could be profound. There's a way to tell their story without Diana coming out looking like a villain and Mary and Florence the victim. Everyone is going to come out with a little dirt on them. That's life and their story but done truthfully it's not going to damage anyone. Their impact, influence, and success they achieved needs to be emphasized greatly because frankly they don't get enough credit for what they did. And you have to tell the whole story. The 70s years can't be glossed over. Use the ladies as sources but none of them nor their families should be involved especially if we want their story done correctly. The thing is you need to right people behind it and the right people leading it. It can't be people who are unwilling to allow folks like Andy, George, etc. have a creative say. Excluding folks who know their story would just be asinine.

Two things stand in the way though: Berry Gordy and Diana Ross. Gordy has the grand rights over usage of the music used in TV commercials, movies, documentaries, etc. If there is going to be a Supremes documentary, you have to tell the truth and Gordy is not going to come out in the best light. He's not going to ever sign off the usage of music in something that's going to make him look bad. I imagine once Gordy passes away there won't be an obstacle on getting rights to the music. Ross is the other obstacle although probably not so much to the extent Gordy has in preventing the usage of music. She may try to do stop a documentary going forward but I imagine at 78 years old she's not going to put up a fight like she may have done when she was 50.

The problem with doing these docs, and I know because I faced it with E TV, is Universal not letting the producers use the music. Without the music you basically have no story. When I did E TRUE HOLLYWOOD DIANA ROSS, the network was allowed to use I think three or four clips from performance tapes. When I did the Mysteries and Scandals on Flo the network was denied any usage of the music. When Berry Gordy sold Motown he still has a stake in Jobete...and where it come to himself, Ross and Marvin Gaye he is usually unlyielding.

[BobbyC]

Hi Bayou--what was DR's problem with Barbara Mitchell? She seemed nice and had a terrific voice.

[marybrewster]

Hi Bayou--what was DR's problem with Barbara Mitchell? She seemed nice and had a terrific voice.

You answered your own question, lol.

[lakeside]

You answered your own question, lol.

She seemed nice and had a terrific voice.
LOL, indeed.

[khansperac]

At this time Diana was at the top. The highest paid and most successful singer in the business. Why would she be jealous of a group- especially after all she did just a few years earlier for the Jones Girls?

There was absolutely no love lost between her and Motown- the label she had left. They tried to sabotage new career at RCA by releasing an album. Her and Berry weren’t talking. Why would she try to help an act from her old label under those circumstances?

The only time during those years I ever heard of her with an opening act was in Vegas or Atlantic City, and in those cases they were comics. So how in the world would she sign a contract for concert appearances with an opening act, and then not fulfill that contract? Can anyone provide a link where she was sued by the contractor or venues?

[BobbyC]

Ouch! You guys are rough!

[captainjames]

At this time Diana was at the top. The highest paid and most successful singer in the business. Why would she be jealous of a group- especially after all she did just a few years earlier for the Jones Girls?

There was absolutely no love lost between her and Motown- the label she had left. They tried to sabotage new career at RCA by releasing an album. Her and Berry weren’t talking. Why would she try to help an act from her old label under those circumstances?

The only time during those years I ever heard of her with an opening act was in Vegas or Atlantic City, and in those cases they were comics. So how in the world would she sign a contract for concert appearances with an opening act, and then not fulfill that contract? Can anyone provide a link where she was sued by the contractor or venues?

I agree - it sounds like they G. Gordy or Motown had already assumed Diana [[If this actually happen) was already in agreement if they were to jet off the next day. I would think there would have been more planning besides Diana meeting the day before to agree to a opening act. Rhonda Ross is the firt time I have seen Diana include anyone as an opening act for her.

[BayouMotownMan]

Hi Bayou--what was DR's problem with Barbara Mitchell? She seemed nice and had a terrific voice.

You just answered your own question Bob

[BayouMotownMan]

At this time Diana was at the top. The highest paid and most successful singer in the business. Why would she be jealous of a group- especially after all she did just a few years earlier for the Jones Girls?

There was absolutely no love lost between her and Motown- the label she had left. They tried to sabotage new career at RCA by releasing an album. Her and Berry weren’t talking. Why would she try to help an act from her old label under those circumstances?

The only time during those years I ever heard of her with an opening act was in Vegas or Atlantic City, and in those cases they were comics. So how in the world would she sign a contract for concert appearances with an opening act, and then not fulfill that contract? Can anyone provide a link where she was sued by the contractor or venues?

The contracts would have been with Anaid Productions at the time and you can be sure that Diana had grown wise enough to have cancellation rights to any such agreements. She also had kill rights to all photos released to the media.

[Spreadinglove21]

I agree - it sounds like they G. Gordy or Motown had already assumed Diana [[If this actually happen) was already in agreement if they were to jet off the next day. I would think there would have been more planning besides Diana meeting the day before to agree to a opening act. Rhonda Ross is the firt time I have seen Diana include anyone as an opening act for her.

When I saw her at Hollywood Bowl a few years back [[early to mid 2010s), Rhonda, Evan and an a capella group [[maybe Penatonix [[sp.?)) that had done well on one of those TV talent shows opened for her.

As for High Inergy and Barbara Mitchell opening for one of her early 80s tours, sounds like Diana did the equivalent of what Helen Lawson did to Neely O'Hara at the start of the movie Valley of the Dolls, though in this instance Barbara wasn't as resilient as Neely and didn't soar to stardom and then later take revenge by flushing Diana's wig down the toilet during a woman's room confrontation.

[Ollie9]

When I saw her at Hollywood Bowl a few years back [[early to mid 2010s), Rhonda, Evan and an a capella group [[maybe Penatonix [[sp.?)) that had done well on one of those TV talent shows opened for her.

As for High Inergy and Barbara Mitchell opening for one of her early 80s tours, sounds like Diana did the equivalent of what Helen Lawson did to Neely O'Hara at the start of the movie Valley of the Dolls, though in this instance Barbara wasn't as resilient as Neely and didn't soar to stardom and then later take revenge by flushing Diana's wig down the toilet during a woman's room confrontation.

“The only hit that comes out of a Helen Lawson Show is Helen Lawson”. The situation does sound a little like life imitating art.

[marybrewster]

Diana was at the top of her game, of course.

But by 1978/1979, Diana was also in her mid-30's. Gasp!

Barbara was talented, pretty, and YOUNG.

Newsflash, Diana is human just like the rest of us.

The "Helen Lawson" reference is absolutely spot on.

[khansperac]

“ Ross left without them. The reason? She claimed she could not get them insured. What was more likely is she didn't want to help another group of competitors”

You guys are really gonna roll with this? This person at the end of his “story” then proceeds to give his opinion as if it were fact [[see the bolded). Then you pick up the ball and run with this . To often lies and rumors are presented as fact, then get repeated so much that people believe they are facts.

[Ollie9]

“ Ross left without them. The reason? She claimed she could not get them insured. What was more likely is she didn't want to help another group of competitors”

You guys are really gonna roll with this? This person at the end of his “story” then proceeds to give his opinion as if it were fact [[see the bolded). Then you pick up the ball and run with this . To often lies and rumors are presented as fact, then get repeated so much that people believe they are facts.

I have a hunch had this been an incident demonstrating Diana’s generosity of spirit it would be taken as the holy gospel and regurgitated for years to come.
Allowing for Diana’s egotistical nature during the 80’s, it sounds perfectly believable to me. As we know, there were certainly moments of generosity, so can’t really see this effecting anyone’s fandom. I’m sure even Helen Lawson had her kind days.

[marybrewster]

“ Ross left without them. The reason? She claimed she could not get them insured. What was more likely is she didn't want to help another group of competitors”

You guys are really gonna roll with this? This person at the end of his “story” then proceeds to give his opinion as if it were fact [[see the bolded). Then you pick up the ball and run with this . To often lies and rumors are presented as fact, then get repeated so much that people believe they are facts.

Just as Diana "claims" she couldn't get them insured?

[jobeterob]

Every time these threads appear, I think of what could have been - some kind of decent reunion and that the benefit would have been greatest for Mary. But she never saw it that way and accepted she was dealing with a superstar and that she would have to play a secondary role; so she got nothing and we got nothing.

I often hear that there were hit possibilities in songs like Warm Summer Nights, You Danced My Heart Around the Stars and the Gus Dudgeon tracks might have been hits - but I don’t hear it; the songs aren’t that good and most hookless; Green River is awful.

At least Destiny’s Child and Labelle managed something.

[RanRan79]

When it comes to the Supremes, Mary should never accept a secondary role. She is Queen Supreme. For some, Diana's superstar status somehow makes her more worthy of just about anything over Mary. Mary never saw it that way, and I don't either. Diana is as much to blame for a non reunion as Mary is. She would have benefitted from a reunion, but even without it she was still living better than most people and appeared to be as happy as she ever was.

I'll tell you one thing about the GD tracks: they were better than half of the stuff Diana recorded at RCA. Except "Green River", we agree on that. Good grief that song is awful.

[Ollie9]

Mary’s “Green River” And Diana’s “Fool For Your Love”. What on earth were they thinking?. As in the the lyrics of a song from MS&S, you just want to scream NO.

[Spreadinglove21]

Green River is not a bad song, at least when John Fogerty/Credence Clearwater Revival play it, but Mary's version can be best summed up as "Trying way too hard". CCR is much more laid back.

[Ollie9]

Green River is not a bad song, at least when John Fogerty/Credence Clearwater Revival play it, but Mary's version can be best summed up as "Trying way too hard". CCR is much more laid back.

This is a much better version, being less is often more. Mary did have a tendency to try just s little to hard at times, both as a 70’s Supreme and during those early solo years.

[RanRan79]

Mary’s “Green River” And Diana’s “Fool For Your Love”. What on earth were they thinking?. As in the the lyrics of a song from MS&S, you just want to scream NO.

I know I'm probably in the minority but I love "Fool". I think Diana did a great job. Supposedly there's a couple more rock cuts that didn't make the album. I hope they see the light of day at some point.

That being said, Diana recording "Fool" just continued to prove that with creative control she had no idea what her audience wanted from her. "Fool For Your Love" was not it.

[RanRan79]

Green River is not a bad song, at least when John Fogerty/Credence Clearwater Revival play it, but Mary's version can be best summed up as "Trying way too hard". CCR is much more laid back.

Well sure, CCR's version is going to be great, as they usually are. By bad song we mean Mary's version. It sucks. The other three tracks are suited to Mary perfectly. I don't know what the thought was behind making "Green River" the fourth track.

While I love Diana's foray into rock- and admittedly, the track to "Fool" probably has more to do with my love than anything else- there's no way the genre would have ever fit her. Mary has a very good version of "Bad Case Of Loving You" on a television show, I think, and she actually does a good job with it. So Mary could "rock", but I think the question is should Mary have been going there? I don't think so. She was much better than how she comes across on "River". That's probably the one song Mary has ever sung that I would never play for someone who wants to know what is there to like about Mary's voice. Diana has a couple songs I wouldn't play, but I think "Why Do Fools Fall In Love" might top that list. That whole damn thing is horrible.

[Ollie9]

I know I'm probably in the minority but I love "Fool". I think Diana did a great job. Supposedly there's a couple more rock cuts that didn't make the album. I hope they see the light of day at some point.

That being said, Diana recording "Fool" just continued to prove that with creative control she had no idea what her audience wanted from her. "Fool For Your Love" was not it.

As has been debated before, Diana appears to have had no real understanding of what her audience wanted, though judging by “Fools”, couldn’t have cared less. She was happy doing what she wanted, hence how we ended up with such a song.
Allowing for the fact you love it, as least you can see this was not the direction she should have been heading in. It was most probably inspired by Gene Simmons, being briefly considered for single release. It’s anybody's guess which direction she might have gone in had it topped the charts.

[RanRan79]

As has been debated before, Diana appears to have had no real understanding of what her audience wanted, though judging by “Fools”, couldn’t have cared less. She was happy doing what she wanted, hence how we ended up with such a song.
Allowing for the fact you love it, as least you can see this was not the direction she should have been heading in. It was most probably inspired by Gene Simmons, being briefly considered for single release. It’s anybody's guess which direction she might have gone in had it topped the charts.

She probably would have released an opera single next.