A declined 1982 supremes' re-union ??

[marybrewster]

i get it - and i only have limited knowledge of FM. my point in my reply was simply the general disinterest and disrespect the industry and the public applies to The Supremes. while i wish it wasn't the case, i believe the most people see the group as "diana ross and two other singers" and therefore the reunion of those 3 is not seen as noteworthy.

it's hard to determine exactly why - sexism, the girls didn't play instruments/write/produce, they were black girls with a white sound/look, motowns efforts to hype up diana as THE one. probably a bit of all of it

I agree. That's why we have the Beatles Farting Sessions on CD, Elvis' Karate Grunts Expanded Edition, and Marvin's WHAT'S GOING ON? 3000. And yet can't even get through the DRATS catalog.

[captainjames]

As much as I love and respect the girls I am glad it did not happen and perhaps Diana saw through it as well. Another chapter in a book that we have never knew or guess and just more bad blood. Mary has said what she wants regarding Diana and Flo told us what we needed to know about Mary. There is no way three originals are getting on that stage now. Barbara, Flo and Mary are gone so I have moved on. Mary has said in interviews that it was all about money. Her net worth at the time of death was 8 million and she was offered 4 million to perform with 2 million coming directly Diana.

[jim aka jtigre99]

I sincerely wrestled with responding to this, but it bothered me so I have to respond. RTL failed for a number of reasons. Diana and Mary and the Promoters share blame. Mary did accept the 4 million but was told the train had left the station. Yes, she did put a lot of emphasis on how much she would be paid. As a founding member, she deserved to be considered more than how the promoters and Diana treated her. Diana treating Mary and Cindy as nothing more than there to help her with this tour said all I needed to know about Diana. Perhaps, she does think everything is just for her and her alone. That is not what the total legacy of the Supremes is about. When Mary stated it was not all about the money, that questioned wasn't that enough she responded with I think fair is a better word and that it wasn't even that but how degrading her treatment was. Also, it is true that from 1967-70 Diana did use the framework of the Supremes to launch her solo career. Diana really would not have been able to have such a big splash in 1967 as she did in 1970. I think the following clip says what I need to know about Mary

[BobbyC]

I'm bored so I'm actually going to participate in this RTL discussion with a viewpoint that will not be popular. I loved Mary, but have to ask, who broke her fingers so she couldn't have called Diana when she first heard rumors about a reunion? Why did she just sit back, getting more and more resentful, waiting until DR called her? When DR finally picked up the phone, Mary was nasty. These two seemed locked into old patterns from their younger years and they both should have grown up and been respectful of each other. Putting this all on Diana is not objective reality. Mary could have just called DR and asked if the rumors were true but no--she had to create drama. This whole situation could have been avoided. In the end, everybody, including the fans, lost out. Ancient history, yes, but totally avoidable.

[marybrewster]

Diana has always said, if you need me, call me.....but does anyone have her number? It's a nice thought for Mary to reach out to Diana.....but I truly don't think at that time she even knew where to call. BG certainly wasn't going to give Mary Diana's digits.

[RanRan79]

Diana has always said, if you need me, call me.....but does anyone have her number? It's a nice thought for Mary to reach out to Diana.....but I truly don't think at that time she even knew where to call. BG certainly wasn't going to give Mary Diana's digits.

I don't believe that. I believe after Mary's son's death she and Diana were in contact, and it's hard for me to fathom that after what happened with T-Boy that Mary would not have been in touch with Diana. It might be possible that prior to the "discussion" Diana had changed her number and Mary did not have it, yet. But Mary, the social butterfly that she was, surely was in contact with people who had Diana's number, a Diana, I suspect, who isn't as closed off from people as she is sometimes painted, and I think it was well within the realm of possibility for Mary to reach out when she heard through the grapevine that a reunion might be taking shape.

[RanRan79]

I sincerely wrestled with responding to this, but it bothered me so I have to respond. RTL failed for a number of reasons. Diana and Mary and the Promoters share blame. Mary did accept the 4 million but was told the train had left the station. Yes, she did put a lot of emphasis on how much she would be paid. As a founding member, she deserved to be considered more than how the promoters and Diana treated her. Diana treating Mary and Cindy as nothing more than there to help her with this tour said all I needed to know about Diana. Perhaps, she does think everything is just for her and her alone. That is not what the total legacy of the Supremes is about. When Mary stated it was not all about the money, that questioned wasn't that enough she responded with I think fair is a better word and that it wasn't even that but how degrading her treatment was. Also, it is true that from 1967-70 Diana did use the framework of the Supremes to launch her solo career. Diana really would not have been able to have such a big splash in 1967 as she did in 1970. I think the following clip says what I need to know about Mary

I can't watch the video because I really don't want to have the visual of when the Supremes were headline news again and this bullshit was the reason why. But I'm glad you pointed out the "train" leaving the station bit. That really should be the final word on how disrespectful this turned out for Mary. Say what you will about her originally declining or dragging her feet, or whatever happened, when she did call to accept the 4, how does an original Supreme get told "the train has left the station"? So it was too late to bring Mary on board, but not too late to bring in Lynda and Scherrie? Get out of here!

I really do believe that Diana wanted Mary involved. If she didn't, she would have left things as they were when the 2 million was declined. Instead she doubled it, because she wanted Mary there. But I do believe Diana underestimated Mary's value and the public's desire to see her there. Diana and Mary onstage together, whether just the two of them, or with Cindy, or with any other woman or women who were Supremes, makes things feel Supreme, as long as it's Diana and Mary. Throughout the thread the accusation has been alleged that the ticket prices were too high, even if Mary had been on the tour. For a Supremes reunion? When people were surely paying more than that for some other big reunions of the time? A lot of folks stayed home because in their minds Lynda and Scherrie were "nobodies" and this was essentially a Diana Ross solo show. I remember all the discussions about it on the radio and among people I knew. The tour was largely seen as illegitimate. Diana overplayed her hand.

If Mary wasn't going to do it, she should have scrapped the idea and focused on her long and storied career. What a cool tour it could have been had she opted instead to focus on performing songs she hadn't sung in forever or never had done live, album cuts from Surrender or Baby It's Me, "Sleepin", "Now That There's You", "Sparkle", "Crying My Heart Out For You", "Brown Baby", etc.

Her ego has both served her well and hindered her throughout her career.

[sup_fan]

I sincerely wrestled with responding to this, but it bothered me so I have to respond. RTL failed for a number of reasons. Diana and Mary and the Promoters share blame. Mary did accept the 4 million but was told the train had left the station. Yes, she did put a lot of emphasis on how much she would be paid. As a founding member, she deserved to be considered more than how the promoters and Diana treated her. Diana treating Mary and Cindy as nothing more than there to help her with this tour said all I needed to know about Diana. Perhaps, she does think everything is just for her and her alone. That is not what the total legacy of the Supremes is about. When Mary stated it was not all about the money, that questioned wasn't that enough she responded with I think fair is a better word and that it wasn't even that but how degrading her treatment was. Also, it is true that from 1967-70 Diana did use the framework of the Supremes to launch her solo career. Diana really would not have been able to have such a big splash in 1967 as she did in 1970. I think the following clip says what I need to know about Mary

i'm at work so can't watch the video right now lol. but i remember in general most of her interviews around this time.

i thought, from a PR perspective, the money issue just came across as not flattering. to any of the women. if i had been helping her with coming up with her response, i think she should have focused more on the issue of overall involvement. I think the argument of being told to just show up to rehearsal on time, smile, sing your part and then leave does a good job in showing the lack of her professional involvement and ideas. she could easily have said "i was one of the founding members. and i was the only member to remain until the group disbanded in '77. So i feel that for a reunion to take place, i deserve a full seat in the decision-making process. such as "how will the act be staged, what songs will we do, how will the show progress." things like that. I've been keeping the supremes legacy alive for decades and feel that i have a legitimate perspective and idea for how a reunion should be formed, given my involvement with the group."

[BobbyC]

Mary could have found her number, considering all of her and DR's mutual friend networks. I mean, come on. I don't fault Mary for feeling the way she did, I fault her for how she handled it. She was a grown woman.

[sup_fan]

agreed. i don't know that the approach Mary took after things fell apart was in anyone's best interest. sure it got mary a few tv bookings but she came across negative too. diana really got the mud splashed on her but in the end it was the group's legacy that suffered the most.

we're all just speculating on what was going on behind closed doors and through negotiations. even if Diana was being truly horrid [[which i don't think she was), what was the real benefit of Mary making such a loud complaint about it? everyone looked bad here

[BobbyC]

It's not even clear if DR knew how Mary was feeling when she made that fateful phone call. She's not a mind reader. DR always said that Mary was not the decision making kind and since DR was, naturally DR filled that void. To be fair, DR was never exactly known for thinking about other people or how her actions affected others. So Mary did what she always did--sit back and gather resentment. oh well, ancient history.

[RanRan79]

Yeah, I'm not faulting Mary for a lot of what was going on behind the scenes, but I've always thought she did a disservice to the group legacy by taking things public. Once again the Supremes had been reduced to feuding females and the focus was on that and not on the great music and their contribution to pop culture. We didn't need to know what was going on. Of course her absence was going to be notable and people were going to wonder.

"Unfortunately, we couldn't come to terms on the business side of things, therefore I've had to bow out. But I wish Diana and the other ladies the best!"

Or, in order to not even get that specific:

"I have had to decline participation in the tour at this time. I wish Diana and the ladies all the best and look forward to being able to reunite as the Supremes another time."

Mary's gripes were largely valid, but presenting them to the public only dragged the Supremes' legacy through the mud because the public loves drama and the drama becomes the focus.

[RanRan79]

Someone pointed out before about Diana's personal issues at the time and how that might have affected her decision making. I think that's valid. Also, wasn't Mary's mother dealing with Alzheimers at this time? I imagine that stress might also have affected the way Mary handled everything. It's always important to remember these ladies as human beings, being affected by the same life crap as the rest of us. Mental health, addiction, stress, it was all most likely playing a part here.

[reese]

Someone pointed out before about Diana's personal issues at the time and how that might have affected her decision making. I think that's valid. Also, wasn't Mary's mother dealing with Alzheimers at this time? I imagine that stress might also have affected the way Mary handled everything. It's always important to remember these ladies as human beings, being affected by the same life crap as the rest of us. Mental health, addiction, stress, it was all most likely playing a part here.

Mary's mom passed away in 1997. Still, it was recent and I don't think there's anyone alive who truly gets over losing a parent. I do believe Mary might have been in college during this time.

That said, I just wish no news was dropped in the media re the proposed reunion until all was finalized. The first thing I remember was Diana commenting on it from the red carpet of the American Music Awards. Not long after, Mary did an interview with ACCESS HOLLYWOOD and she was very upbeat about it. But as soon as she mentioned that they all were negotiating separate deals, I knew there would be trouble.

[RanRan79]

Mary's mom passed away in 1997. Still, it was recent and I don't think there's anyone alive who truly gets over losing a parent. I do believe Mary might have been in college during this time.

Wow, I didn't realize she passed then. For some reason I always think her mother died around 2002. I don't know where I got that. While I don't know what it's like to lose a parent- thank God- I've seen what it looks like, and no, you don't get over it.

[1382hitsville]

This is my first time, I believe, I get into the RTL or reunion discussion.

Firstly, compliments to all, we had several discussions for the last 20 years on this and other fora and most turned nasty and personal. This one seems to be decent and respectful, hence, I dare to give my 2 cents.

The 80's reunion, no, in my opinion it could never work. Mary was at a low point in her career, had no label and Diana was at her financial hight at RCA and was establishing her independence. A documentary, or individual interviews, yes, but after the failed Motown 25 performance I still can't see that happening. Diana is never about looking back. And there was Suzanne DePasse running things at Motown back then.

RTL, I mainly blame the tour company, AEG at that time. It started with a longer and full version of the Supremes songs, Supremes where added, Diana and Mary staid out of the financial details, until Diana wanted it and offered her own money to get Mary onboard. Of course Diana took a share of costs and income, baring the financial risk with AEG. I don't know if that was a desire / demand of Diana or AEG.

Due to circumstances, those two ladies decided to talk to each other via the media. Only to making things worse. All though it could have helped Mary's book sale.

AEG took the most financial risk, and who pays, decides. We all know Diana was not the Diana who is she now is or used to be, she had her own personal demons to deal with at that time. So did Mary.

They could have decided to move to smaller venues, but AEG decided to add a world tour and Diana said "No". Then they pulled the plug on the tour.

Remember how AEG pushed Michael Jackson later on during the "This Is It" tour? Adding dates, providing doctors to keep him going...we know how that ended. Tragic.

Where there is money to be made, ethics are gone.

I'm happy to know that the Mary and Diana shared a special bond. In their early teens they even ran away from home and lived together. They exploded to global stardom. Also the behavior of Berry is questionable during that time. With the knowledge of today I'm sure he could not get away with some of his antics. A relationship with an employee? Demanded being called "The Chairman"? Singling someone out? I have been a leader for over 20 years...and no, this is not what management school taught me.

All of this is hearsay, from books and memories. I wasn't there. And the people who where have their own recollections and motivations to remember things a certain way.

I still miss Mary. I wasn't around to be here when Flo was alive, I'm born in 1976. I take comfort in the value of that special bond. Diana was there when the worst thing that can happen to Mary did happen loosing a child, that Cindy moved in to take care of Mary. And I know Diana has a generous heart.

When people age, they either turn bitter or sour, or mellow, just like wine...What I saw in later years is the mellowing of the ladies. And it reminded me of the special bond. That no one of us can understand.

To conclude, an 80's reunion, nice fantasy, RTL, in hindsight, they should have hired a mediator that all ladies trusted to iron things out. A mediator with no strings attached to the tour promoter, or personal interests and preferences.

Now....it's all too late. Sad but true.

Hopefully Universal / Motown will honor the girls and their legacy through finally releasing the expanded editions. A well done documentary would be welcome too.

And lots of PR....

Come on, they are the most successful girl group of all time!

[Ollie9]

This is my first time, I believe, I get into the RTL or reunion discussion.

Firstly, compliments to all, we had several discussions for the last 20 years on this and other fora and most turned nasty and personal. This one seems to be decent and respectful, hence, I dare to give my 2 cents.

The 80's reunion, no, in my opinion it could never work. Mary was at a low point in her career, had no label and Diana was at her financial hight at RCA and was establishing her independence. A documentary, or individual interviews, yes, but after the failed Motown 25 performance I still can't see that happening. Diana is never about looking back. And there was Suzanne DePasse running things at Motown back then.

RTL, I mainly blame the tour company, AEG at that time. It started with a longer and full version of the Supremes songs, Supremes where added, Diana and Mary staid out of the financial details, until Diana wanted it and offered her own money to get Mary onboard. Of course Diana took a share of costs and income, baring the financial risk with AEG. I don't know if that was a desire / demand of Diana or AEG.

Due to circumstances, those two ladies decided to talk to each other via the media. Only to making things worse. All though it could have helped Mary's book sale.

AEG took the most financial risk, and who pays, decides. We all know Diana was not the Diana who is she now is or used to be, she had her own personal demons to deal with at that time. So did Mary.

They could have decided to move to smaller venues, but AEG decided to add a world tour and Diana said "No". Then they pulled the plug on the tour.

Remember how AEG pushed Michael Jackson later on during the "This Is It" tour? Adding dates, providing doctors to keep him going...we know how that ended. Tragic.

Where there is money to be made, ethics are gone.

I'm happy to know that the Mary and Diana shared a special bond. In their early teens they even ran away from home and lived together. They exploded to global stardom. Also the behavior of Berry is questionable during that time. With the knowledge of today I'm sure he could not get away with some of his antics. A relationship with an employee? Demanded being called "The Chairman"? Singling someone out? I have been a leader for over 20 years...and no, this is not what management school taught me.

All of this is hearsay, from books and memories. I wasn't there. And the people who where have their own recollections and motivations to remember things a certain way.

I still miss Mary. I wasn't around to be here when Flo was alive, I'm born in 1976. I take comfort in the value of that special bond. Diana was there when the worst thing that can happen to Mary did happen loosing a child, that Cindy moved in to take care of Mary. And I know Diana has a generous heart.

When people age, they either turn bitter or sour, or mellow, just like wine...What I saw in later years is the mellowing of the ladies. And it reminded me of the special bond. That no one of us can understand.

To conclude, an 80's reunion, nice fantasy, RTL, in hindsight, they should have hired a mediator that all ladies trusted to iron things out. A mediator with no strings attached to the tour promoter, or personal interests and preferences.

Now....it's all too late. Sad but true.

Hopefully Universal / Motown will honor the girls and their legacy through finally releasing the expanded editions. A well done documentary would be welcome too.

And lots of PR....

Come on, they are the most successful girl group of all time!

I think had Diana been a little less self focussed during rehearsals for Motown 25 with all going well, negotiations for RTL might have run a little smoother. ‘The girls will be happy with just the medley” revealed a certain mindset that clearly hadn’t really changed seventeen years later.

[RanRan79]

I think had Diana been a little less self focussed during rehearsals for Motown 25 with all going well, negotiations for RTL might have run a little smoother. ‘The girls will be happy with just the medley” revealed a certain mindset that clearly hadn’t really changed seventeen years later.

If she said that. We only have JRT's word for it. Remember that Diana was recovering from a virus for Motown 25. I can't exactly fault her for wishing to trim down the performance from four Supremes songs and "Mountain" to just "Mountain" and "Someday". And considering that she forgot the words to "Someday"- or whatever was going on with her, maybe she had to fart and realized it wasn't a fart- one Supremes song seems to have been too much. Lol

[Ollie9]

If she said that. We only have JRT's word for it. Remember that Diana was recovering from a virus for Motown 25. I can't exactly fault her for wishing to trim down the performance from four Supremes songs and "Mountain" to just "Mountain" and "Someday". And considering that she forgot the words to "Someday"- or whatever was going on with her, maybe she had to fart and realized it wasn't a fart- one Supremes song seems to have been too much. Lol

The fact Diana soldiered on with a throat infection during her tour of the UK this year puts Motown 25 into perspective.
Mary’s grievance was never just about financial gain, something Diana appeared unable to comprehend. Comments to Barbara Walters such as “I doubled the offer” and “if we had offered her the moon” are testament to this.
The stake through the heart comment of “all she had to do was turn up” was also quite revealing. The fact DR was instantly granted the rights to use the name Supremes
after all the legal battles Mary had gone through must have also stung.

[sup_fan]

we have only 2 real accounts of the behind the scenes antics at Motown 25. mary's and randy's. the CHMR account was definitely written in a manner to be as sensational as possible. frankly i have to say this puts it about 1 step above Tony Turner. it is certainly more researched than anything that queen put out but the research was compiled with a very specific and manipulative objective. from someone that claims to be a fan and love the music, group and women, this is a very problematic approach. sure randy rewrote it later in a much more balanced manner but that doesn't excuse the fact that he clearly wrote this is a goal of painting an unflattering view of DR in order to sell books. add to this that his first Diana book was quite laudatory.

anyway the point being that our info on this scene is limited and from very specific POVs.

when DMC were finally all together backstage, it was clear that the extreme lateness of the hour meant that there would be little to no time for a proper rehearsal. everyone knew this was to be a taped show for broadcast and the Sup reunion was to be the peak event of the evening. for an artist to be hesitant to perform something they might not be prepared for is only natural. what was the medley to be performed? which sup songs were included and all? Diana would have been the one singing lead and so any mix up or flub of lyrics would be on her. sure she'd been performing her own medley in her shows but we don't know that they brought over her charts. and if they did, M and C wouldn't have been familiar with how the medley went.

now did she say something as demeaning as "the girls will be happy enough..." i have no idea. if she did that's a very dismissive and inappropriate tone and approach. but if she said, there's really just no way we can do this successfully so we'll have to just do Someday" that's quite different

also M and C are just as much to blame, if we assume the story is accurate as written. why the fuck would two women, one being 38 and one being 40, just stand there like halfwits and not say "hold up bitch - i can answer for myself!" shame on them for just allowing someone to make their decisions. you're two grown women and you can't say boo about what you want in your performance? now maybe some of that has been lost to time - maybe they did try to push for more songs but the producers siad No. ok that's different. but again, we only have these two versions

[sup_fan]

in terms of the actual reunion itself on motown 25, both D and M handled things poorly. Diana couldn't have looked less enthusiastic or engaged. it's said that she was very nervous about returning to a group of people that were indifferent or even hostile towards her. that she had some very sad memories of this time. Ok i totally get and appreciate that. but she has certainly dealt with many audiences that were lukewarm or indifferent and still put on amazing shows. that's what performers do. she was also performing for Berry and for the importance of this music. she could have and should have drawn strength from that

mary clearly came into this evening with a huge chip on her shoulder and was determined to be the center of attention. her totally going off script on her speech was completely unprofessional, no matter how beautiful her delivery or how meaningful her mention of those that had passed. when in front of a live audience, you have all manners of people working to pull this off and for her to do that [[and as a performer herself) is just not acceptable. if she felt strongly about making sure Flo, Paul and others were represented, she could have found other means. also M and C contributed to the chaos on the stage. both women purposely sang very quiet during sound check so that in the performance their mics were much higher than they should be and then the issue of the choreography. i'm not criticizing them for wanting and demanding some degree of equity in the performance. but to do it in this manner is not a professional approach. it's critically important during a sound check to ensure all performance levels are appropriate. camera men need to know where people will be and where their marks are.

basically everyone involved shares the blame and the fans are the ones they hurt

[BayouMotownMan]

I'm bored so I'm actually going to participate in this RTL discussion with a viewpoint that will not be popular. I loved Mary, but have to ask, who broke her fingers so she couldn't have called Diana when she first heard rumors about a reunion? Why did she just sit back, getting more and more resentful, waiting until DR called her? When DR finally picked up the phone, Mary was nasty. These two seemed locked into old patterns from their younger years and they both should have grown up and been respectful of each other. Putting this all on Diana is not objective reality. Mary could have just called DR and asked if the rumors were true but no--she had to create drama. This whole situation could have been avoided. In the end, everybody, including the fans, lost out. Ancient history, yes, but totally avoidable.

I think I can answer this Bobby, Mary had attempted to connect with Diana many times since her first book was issued, both in person and by phone and Diana would never receive her. Mary even attempted to attend the funeral of Diana's mother and was turned away. So I'm sure that played into it.

On another level, there was just too many hard feelings for these ladies to even attempt a reunion. I think strongly that Diana Ross went thru the motions of a half-hearted attempt to include Mary in this and basically set the trap for Mary to fall in. All along Diana intended ton use Scherrie and Lynda.

[Ollie9]

in terms of the actual reunion itself on motown 25, both D and M handled things poorly. Diana couldn't have looked less enthusiastic or engaged. it's said that she was very nervous about returning to a group of people that were indifferent or even hostile towards her. that she had some very sad memories of this time. Ok i totally get and appreciate that. but she has certainly dealt with many audiences that were lukewarm or indifferent and still put on amazing shows. that's what performers do. she was also performing for Berry and for the importance of this music. she could have and should have drawn strength from that

mary clearly came into this evening with a huge chip on her shoulder and was determined to be the center of attention. her totally going off script on her speech was completely unprofessional, no matter how beautiful her delivery or how meaningful her mention of those that had passed. when in front of a live audience, you have all manners of people working to pull this off and for her to do that [[and as a performer herself) is just not acceptable. if she felt strongly about making sure Flo, Paul and others were represented, she could have found other means. also M and C contributed to the chaos on the stage. both women purposely sang very quiet during sound check so that in the performance their mics were much higher than they should be and then the issue of the choreography. i'm not criticizing them for wanting and demanding some degree of equity in the performance. but to do it in this manner is not a professional approach. it's critically important during a sound check to ensure all performance levels are appropriate. camera men need to know where people will be and where their marks are.

basically everyone involved shares the blame and the fans are the ones they hurt

For the greatest girl group of all time to be represented by one song only was a disgrace. The reason for that has to be laid at Diana’s feet. I would imagine both Mary and Cindy voiced their disapproval, and were plainly informed M’s Ross has decided.
It’s also worth noting it was Diana not Mary who crossed professional boundaries by man handling another artist. Mary’s antics being small fry in comparison, with the audience none the wiser.

[RanRan79]

I think I can answer this Bobby, Mary had attempted to connect with Diana many times since her first book was issued, both in person and by phone and Diana would never receive her. Mary even attempted to attend the funeral of Diana's mother and was turned away. So I'm sure that played into it.

On another level, there was just too many hard feelings for these ladies to even attempt a reunion. I think strongly that Diana Ross went thru the motions of a half-hearted attempt to include Mary in this and basically set the trap for Mary to fall in. All along Diana intended ton use Scherrie and Lynda.

Diana's mother died about two years before Mary's book came out. I find it hard to believe that Diana would go so far as to bar Mary from Mrs. Ross' funeral in 1984. I find it even harder to believe that Mary wouldn't have included that slight in her second book.

[RanRan79]

For the greatest girl group of all time to be represented by one song only was a disgrace. The reason for that has to be laid at Diana’s feet. I would imagine both Mary and Cindy voiced their disapproval, and were plainly informed M’s Ross has decided.

I agree it's a disgrace, but again, Diana was still ill. Who knows how she was feeling during rehearsal. I know how it is to feel sick and a few hours later feel better but still not 100 percent. Had "Someday We'll Be Together" been performed in full without any of the drama that occurred, I don't think anyone would have batted an eye. I think it's the fact that we really only get maybe 30 seconds of the Supremes that really makes the whole affair ridiculous.

[RanRan79]

It’s also worth noting it was Diana not Mary who crossed professional boundaries by man handling another artist. Mary’s antics being small fry in comparison, with the audience none the wiser.

Yeah, Mary's speech didn't even air, and it's not like Mary and Cindy were drowning out Diana while singing. Nothing, and I do mean absolutely nothing, Mary did that night was anywhere near as bad as Diana shoving her, pushing her mic down, or the fact that Diana went out on stage during Adam Ant's performance. Had another entertainer done that to Diana, she would have flipped.

IMO the worst thing Mary did that night was call out to Berry to come on down. She knew that wasn't her place and I don't believe for a moment that she was caught up in the moment. I think she decided she was going to be the one to call him on stage and that was that. But even that lack of professionalism wasn't anything close to the antics Diana pulled with Mary and Adam Ant.

[marybrewster]

in terms of the actual reunion itself on motown 25, both D and M handled things poorly. Diana couldn't have looked less enthusiastic or engaged. it's said that she was very nervous about returning to a group of people that were indifferent or even hostile towards her. that she had some very sad memories of this time. Ok i totally get and appreciate that. but she has certainly dealt with many audiences that were lukewarm or indifferent and still put on amazing shows. that's what performers do. she was also performing for Berry and for the importance of this music. she could have and should have drawn strength from that

mary clearly came into this evening with a huge chip on her shoulder and was determined to be the center of attention. her totally going off script on her speech was completely unprofessional, no matter how beautiful her delivery or how meaningful her mention of those that had passed. when in front of a live audience, you have all manners of people working to pull this off and for her to do that [[and as a performer herself) is just not acceptable. if she felt strongly about making sure Flo, Paul and others were represented, she could have found other means. also M and C contributed to the chaos on the stage. both women purposely sang very quiet during sound check so that in the performance their mics were much higher than they should be and then the issue of the choreography. i'm not criticizing them for wanting and demanding some degree of equity in the performance. but to do it in this manner is not a professional approach. it's critically important during a sound check to ensure all performance levels are appropriate. camera men need to know where people will be and where their marks are.

basically everyone involved shares the blame and the fans are the ones they hurt

What accounts do we have of Mary's speech and her going off script?

[marybrewster]

"everyone knew this was to be a taped show for broadcast and the Sup reunion was to be the peak event of the evening. for an artist to be hesitant to perform something they might not be prepared for is only natural. what was the medley to be performed? which sup songs were included and all? Diana would have been the one singing lead and so any mix up or flub of lyrics would be on her. sure she'd been performing her own medley in her shows but we don't know that they brought over her charts. and if they did, M and C wouldn't have been familiar with how the medley went."

Diana had flubbed lines all through the DRATS era, and she covered them skillfully, with the support of Mary and Cindy. It's true that M and C may have not known the exact medley that was being presented that night, but I think both were capable enough at the time to figure out where the ooohs and the baby baby's went.

[reese]

"everyone knew this was to be a taped show for broadcast and the Sup reunion was to be the peak event of the evening. for an artist to be hesitant to perform something they might not be prepared for is only natural. what was the medley to be performed? which sup songs were included and all? Diana would have been the one singing lead and so any mix up or flub of lyrics would be on her. sure she'd been performing her own medley in her shows but we don't know that they brought over her charts. and if they did, M and C wouldn't have been familiar with how the medley went."

Diana had flubbed lines all through the DRATS era, and she covered them skillfully, with the support of Mary and Cindy. It's true that M and C may have not known the exact medley that was being presented that night, but I think both were capable enough at the time to figure out where the ooohs and the baby baby's went.

From what I've read, DMC only had a rather brief period to rehearse the Supremes' segment before the audience was to be let in for the show. I would like to think those old lyrics would have kicked in but who knows for sure?

[reese]

What accounts do we have of Mary's speech and her going off script?

In SUPREME FAITH, Mary wrote that she felt the text she was given was "self-serving" and she wrote her own. There were things she felt ought to be said and she was going to say them.

[bradsupremes]

in terms of the actual reunion itself on motown 25, both D and M handled things poorly. Diana couldn't have looked less enthusiastic or engaged. it's said that she was very nervous about returning to a group of people that were indifferent or even hostile towards her. that she had some very sad memories of this time. Ok i totally get and appreciate that. but she has certainly dealt with many audiences that were lukewarm or indifferent and still put on amazing shows. that's what performers do. she was also performing for Berry and for the importance of this music. she could have and should have drawn strength from that

mary clearly came into this evening with a huge chip on her shoulder and was determined to be the center of attention. her totally going off script on her speech was completely unprofessional, no matter how beautiful her delivery or how meaningful her mention of those that had passed. when in front of a live audience, you have all manners of people working to pull this off and for her to do that [[and as a performer herself) is just not acceptable. if she felt strongly about making sure Flo, Paul and others were represented, she could have found other means. also M and C contributed to the chaos on the stage. both women purposely sang very quiet during sound check so that in the performance their mics were much higher than they should be and then the issue of the choreography. i'm not criticizing them for wanting and demanding some degree of equity in the performance. but to do it in this manner is not a professional approach. it's critically important during a sound check to ensure all performance levels are appropriate. camera men need to know where people will be and where their marks are.

basically everyone involved shares the blame and the fans are the ones they hurt

I have seen the clip of her and Cindy. Yes, Mary did go off script to highlight the Motown artists no longer around but honestly if I didn't know that it was off script I would have never known. It was genuine and the audience appreciated the acknowledgments with applause. Honestly it was no different from any awards show you see where a celebrity goes off prompter to say a few words. Unlike live shows, a taped event like this is always going to film more than what is needed/can fit in the aired show. It's not like Mary gave an impromptu performance of "Red Hot" and then stood on stage for 10 minutes talking about how she can't get a record deal. It was a minute or two to say a few words about her fellow Motown family who had passed away and then she and Cindy went back to the teleprompter. Clearly Suzanne didn't reserve any sort of segment for the Motown folks who died. To call what Mary did as unprofessional is an overreach.

Now, running on stage while someone else is performing without them knowing and stealing the spotlight... that's unprofessional.

[sup_fan]

I have seen the clip of her and Cindy. Yes, Mary did go off script to highlight the Motown artists no longer around but honestly if I didn't know that it was off script I would have never known. It was genuine and the audience appreciated the acknowledgments with applause. Honestly it was no different from any awards show you see where a celebrity goes off prompter to say a few words. Unlike live shows, a taped event like this is always going to film more than what is needed/can fit in the aired show. It's not like Mary gave an impromptu performance of "Red Hot" and then stood on stage for 10 minutes talking about how she can't get a record deal. It was a minute or two to say a few words about her fellow Motown family who had passed away and then she and Cindy went back to the teleprompter. Clearly Suzanne didn't reserve any sort of segment for the Motown folks who died. To call what Mary did as unprofessional is an overreach.

Now, running on stage while someone else is performing without them knowing and stealing the spotlight... that's unprofessional.

totally agree about diana going on stage during Adam's performance. that was very unprofessional. and adds to her list of bad behavior that evening

as for the speech, my problem isn't that it was warm and heartfelt or that she mentioned people who deserved recognition. the overall production staff was trying to coordinate, manage and organize a wildly huge event. so many performers, so many egos, so many performances, etc. there were 10,000 moving parts to keep track of. It's not Suzanne i'm worried about - frankly who cares about her. it's the zillions of people doing the everyday roles within such a complex production. what's she going to say - where is she getting this - what if she starts to stumble and sputter - what if she goes on for 10 mins - what's supposed to be the next act, do we just go ahead and start them up?

that's what was unprofessional about her action. this wasn't her first time on a stage. she certainly understands the million moving parts for a complex show.

[sup_fan]

What accounts do we have of Mary's speech and her going off script?

i'm just going off of mary own comments in her book. she said something along the lines of feeling the script she was given was self serving and decided she was going to say some things that needed to be said. I don't have a copy of what she said or what she was given

[sup_fan]

Yeah, Mary's speech didn't even air, and it's not like Mary and Cindy were drowning out Diana while singing. Nothing, and I do mean absolutely nothing, Mary did that night was anywhere near as bad as Diana shoving her, pushing her mic down, or the fact that Diana went out on stage during Adam Ant's performance. Had another entertainer done that to Diana, she would have flipped.

IMO the worst thing Mary did that night was call out to Berry to come on down. She knew that wasn't her place and I don't believe for a moment that she was caught up in the moment. I think she decided she was going to be the one to call him on stage and that was that. But even that lack of professionalism wasn't anything close to the antics Diana pulled with Mary and Adam Ant.

the whole "push" thing is open to debate too. i've not seen any footage or images of it.

According to mary's book it was like mary was tossed across the stage like a rag doll.

According to CHMR is was a definite shove and so noticeable that the audience gasped and every performing watching backstage froze in place

According to some interviews with Suzanne, it wasn't a monstrous throw but more of a "just stop" movement of diana's hand on mary's shoulder

according to randy's later book, it was a light push not a huge shove across the stage

in any event, it certainly didn't look good on diana. to make some sort of contact with another performer like this, is absolutely unprofessional too. just as it was unprofessional for mary to ignore their planned staging. what probably would have been better would have been diana to say to herself "ok M and C are going to stand by my. rather then push her back, why don't i just wrap my arm around her shoulder and pull her in next to me and Cindy too. let's just huddle up as great friends and sing together"

and then there's also the poor decision for mary to just take over the lead singing. she says in her book that it seemed as though diana forgot the lyrics and mary jumped in. did she jump in to just sing a line and then toss it back to diana? was she still stepping forward and just, literally , stepped forward ahead of her and started singing the lead? did diana forget the lyrics? did diana simply stop singing because mary was usurping the lead and it would have been crazy to have them both singing lead on top of one another?

in the broadcast, you can see after the cut that mary is actually standing forward of diana, dancing and singing lead. diana is a pace or two behind and reintroduces them "this is mary wilson and that's cindy birdsong" then smokey walks on and you head diana call out "smokey robinson!"

[bradsupremes]

totally agree about diana going on stage during Adam's performance. that was very unprofessional. and adds to her list of bad behavior that evening

as for the speech, my problem isn't that it was warm and heartfelt or that she mentioned people who deserved recognition. the overall production staff was trying to coordinate, manage and organize a wildly huge event. so many performers, so many egos, so many performances, etc. there were 10,000 moving parts to keep track of. It's not Suzanne i'm worried about - frankly who cares about her. it's the zillions of people doing the everyday roles within such a complex production. what's she going to say - where is she getting this - what if she starts to stumble and sputter - what if she goes on for 10 mins - what's supposed to be the next act, do we just go ahead and start them up?

that's what was unprofessional about her action. this wasn't her first time on a stage. she certainly understands the million moving parts for a complex show.

That’s why it was taped. You can cut stuff that doesn’t go right and if you need to redo it again, you redo it. Look at how long Diana’s VH1 Divas special took to film. They had to go back and redo segments because of issues with sound/production, people weren’t ready, etc. It’s why it’s not a live show. They can edit and remove the messy parts to make everything look perfect for broadcast. The people working on Motown 25 were veteran industry folks. This wasn’t their first rodeo. I’m sure all of the crew had been through situations before where someone strayed from the script MANY times. You just keep rolling and if you adjust, you adjust.

She strayed from the script for a minute to make a heartfelt tribute. That’s all. Did it mess up the flow of the show? Not likely enough to cause panic. Did it rise to level of unprofessionalism you think it is? No. This was an ant hill moment, not a mountain.

[bradsupremes]

and then there's also the poor decision for mary to just take over the lead singing. she says in her book that it seemed as though diana forgot the lyrics and mary jumped in. did she jump in to just sing a line and then toss it back to diana? was she still stepping forward and just, literally , stepped forward ahead of her and started singing the lead? did diana forget the lyrics? did diana simply stop singing because mary was usurping the lead and it would have been crazy to have them both singing lead on top of one another?

in the broadcast, you can see after the cut that mary is actually standing forward of diana, dancing and singing lead. diana is a pace or two behind and reintroduces them "this is mary wilson and that's cindy birdsong" then smokey walks on and you head diana call out "smokey robinson!"

If you watch, Diana stops singing the lead after introducing Mary & Cindy. She just stands there and does this swaying dance with her arms. Mary picks up the lead to fill the silence. Maybe Diana forgot the lead. Who knows. After singing just one line, Mary does turn to Diana and motions to her as if saying “back to you, pick up the lead.” You can see her literally toss it back to her. Instead, Diana shouts out Smokey’s name as he appears and then from there on out it’s just everyone singing the chorus.

[marybrewster]

I caught that "toss back" from Day 1. I think I might have even mentioned it to you Brad. If you watch closely, you'll see it. Diana starts singing, Mary picks up, then gives a hand gesture to send it back to Diana. Diana instead does "the robot" and calls for Smokey to save the day. I've always gotten a kick out of his expression; look at his eyes. I can only imagine what he was thinking.

[marybrewster]

From what I've read, DMC only had a rather brief period to rehearse the Supremes' segment before the audience was to be let in for the show. I would like to think those old lyrics would have kicked in but who knows for sure?

That could very well be, at least for Cindy. I don't think in 1983 she'd been doing much singing. I seem to recall hearing that she actually had to borrow a dress for the occasion, or maybe someone bought it for her? Was it Claudette? I think as far as Mary, she'd been singing those oohs and aaahs for decades. I'm sure she could have pulled just about anything off. Except maybe Diana's wig.

[RanRan79]

If you watch, Diana stops singing the lead after introducing Mary & Cindy. She just stands there and does this swaying dance with her arms. Mary picks up the lead to fill the silence. Maybe Diana forgot the lead. Who knows. After singing just one line, Mary does turn to Diana and motions to her as if saying “back to you, pick up the lead.” You can see her literally toss it back to her. Instead, Diana shouts out Smokey’s name as he appears and then from there on out it’s just everyone singing the chorus.

Yup, I've pointed that out a zillion times when the subject comes up. Clearly Sup refuses to pay attention to me when I'm talking Motown 25.

One day the entire footage of the Supremes reunion is going to surface, I can almost guarantee it. That is, of course, if it hadn't immediately been destroyed.

[RanRan79]

I caught that "toss back" from Day 1. I think I might have even mentioned it to you Brad. If you watch closely, you'll see it. Diana starts singing, Mary picks up, then gives a hand gesture to send it back to Diana. Diana instead does "the robot" and calls for Smokey to save the day. I've always gotten a kick out of his expression; look at his eyes. I can only imagine what he was thinking.

From that walk/dance thing he does on the way, he probably didn't want to be anywhere near the shit show. His eyes definitely tell the story, not the grin.

It's really a shame that Diana allowed herself to act so stupid that night. Not only did it prematurely end the Supremes reunion, but it gave her Motown peers the opportunity to say "Uh huh, she aint changed a bit". She played right into the perception they had of her. JRT certainly sensationalized CHMR, but I can believe that when she pointed out that it was her birthday, barely anybody bothered to act as if they cared.

This wasn't the first time that the public got wind that Diana could be a real trip, she had long established that reputation, but this is probably the first time there was any real confirmation beyond gossip, and might be the first time her reputation took a serious hit. She weathered it, but then Dreamgirl came a couple years later. Looking back, I wonder if Diana would have weathered that better if she had dealt with the book with Mary and then not distanced herself from her.

[Ollie9]

In many ways 1983 certainly proved Diana’s anus horribilis.
1. The drama and bad publicity surrounding Motown 25.
2. The debacle regarding the Central Park playground.
3. The infamous letter and thoughtless sacking of a large number of her staff.
4, The dismal failure of ross 83.
Things could only get better.....

[Spreadinglove21]

Diana Ross at times seemed aware of the negative side of her public image, that of being a self absorbed diva bitch who only cares about herself, but some of her actions in 80s and during late 90s/early 00's shows she never took that into consideration when making career decisions. She seems to be someone who rather shut out all negativity and deal with what she considers "positive" matters but such a mindset can become its own trap when enough negative things happen and you don't have the coping skills to deal with them as denial is not a great long term coping mechanism or stragety. Hence her slide into alcoholism around the time of RTL and its aftermath. Between Arne dumping her for a younger woman, and the glee many in the public felt with the failure of RTL feeling she had a long overdue comeuppance owed her, it may have been quite a shock to her. And she turned to booze to medicate. AT least that drunk driving arrest and efforts by her family finally woke her up to face her personal problems and addiction and she put in the work to get her life back in order.

[reese]

That’s why it was taped. You can cut stuff that doesn’t go right and if you need to redo it again, you redo it. Look at how long Diana’s VH1 Divas special took to film. They had to go back and redo segments because of issues with sound/production, people weren’t ready, etc. It’s why it’s not a live show. They can edit and remove the messy parts to make everything look perfect for broadcast. The people working on Motown 25 were veteran industry folks. This wasn’t their first rodeo. I’m sure all of the crew had been through situations before where someone strayed from the script MANY times. You just keep rolling and if you adjust, you adjust.

She strayed from the script for a minute to make a heartfelt tribute. That’s all. Did it mess up the flow of the show? Not likely enough to cause panic. Did it rise to level of unprofessionalism you think it is? No. This was an ant hill moment, not a mountain.

I haven't seen the footage of the speech. More than likely, it wasn't any text that would have been bad to air. In all honesty, Mary and Cindy's speech probably wouldn't have aired anyway. But supposedly the act alone was enough to ban Mary from any future Motown productions helmed by dePasse.

That said, as someone who worked in television for many years, I know that preparation is key although you should expect the unexpected. But if you know there's someone who could stray from the prepared, it isn't surprising if you wouldn't want to work with them again.

[jim aka jtigre99]

I haven't seen the footage of the speech. More than likely, it wasn't any text that would have been bad to air. In all honesty, Mary and Cindy's speech probably wouldn't have aired anyway. But supposedly the act alone was enough to ban Mary from any future Motown productions helmed by dePass

That said, as someone who worked in television for many years, I know that preparation is key although you should expect the unexpected. But if you know there's someone who could stray from the prepared, it isn't surprising if you wouldn't want to work with them again.

Yet, De Passe still worked with Diana, who jumped onstage with Adam Ant in a breech of professionalism, who pushed someone aside, who pushed a microphone away from someone. who stopped singing in the middle of a song, someone who showed up late and didn't rehearse the 4 songs for the "big reunion" moment and decided that the "girls" would be "happy" with one song. I think their friendship had Suzanne overlook that and take sides with Diana during this friction. Yes, Mary sang low so her microphone wouldn't be turned down so low as to be inaudible, she did add her own words during a scripted moment and wore a red dress for the "reunion" instead of black, white or silver. Mary took over the lead when Diana stopped singing and I have always noted on the tape that Mary seems to nod to Diana with her hand extended like she was trying to hand the lead back over to her if she was ready and Diana continued to just speak instead. They both were not doing what they should have but Mary being singled out seems to be a continuation of the indignities she faced for many years from the hands of Motown. She was not a perfect human being, but obviously the relationship of someone who you considered a friend who was definitely only always thinking of themselves and another who would respond with a passive aggressive defense would mean there were two parties to blame and it shouldn't always be the one who has to put up with the others ego constantly.

[Ollie9]

I can’t imagine it’s that rare an event for a performer to stay slightly off script. I also can’t imagine that would lead to them being blacklisted.
I wonder what would have happened if Smokey hadn’t been sent out on a rescue mission?. Would they have finished the song or would Diana have made her exit stage left leaving Mary and Cindy to continue the song alone?. One would hope a modicum of professional respect would be maintained....But who knows?.

[1382hitsville]

[QUOTE=reese;727607]I haven't seen the footage of the speech. More than likely, it wasn't any text that would have been bad to air. In all honesty, Mary and Cindy's speech probably wouldn't have aired anyway. But supposedly the act alone was enough to ban Mary from any future Motown productions helmed by dePasse.

Suzanne did work later on with Mary on Motown 40:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0142043/

[RanRan79]

In many ways 1983 certainly proved Diana’s anus horribilis.
1. The drama and bad publicity surrounding Motown 25.
2. The debacle regarding the Central Park playground.
3. The infamous letter and thoughtless sacking of a large number of her staff.
4, The dismal failure of ross 83.
Things could only get better.....

I think Central Park ultimately ended up being the thing that allowed her to weather her antics at Motown 25. That iconic performance became the thing that people talked about, not the failed Supremes reunion. After that, she goes on to release two or three big singles, including a #1 hit, and a platinum album. [[I think Swept Away went platinum, if not, it went gold.)

I've never bought into the thought that Diana's career tanked because of Dreamgirl. I'll always believe that the lack of good music did Diana in. But there is no denying that her reputation suffered a huge hit by Mary's book. Diana just couldn't [[or wouldn't) do much to take the bad taste out of people's mouths. [[Even though I also still hold the opinion that Mary's book wasn't as bad as some folks make it out to be. Most of Mary's digs are petty criticisms and recollections that prove Diana wasn't perfect. Very little of it proves that Diana was evil.)

[RanRan79]

Diana Ross at times seemed aware of the negative side of her public image, that of being a self absorbed diva bitch who only cares about herself, but some of her actions in 80s and during late 90s/early 00's shows she never took that into consideration when making career decisions. She seems to be someone who rather shut out all negativity and deal with what she considers "positive" matters but such a mindset can become its own trap when enough negative things happen and you don't have the coping skills to deal with them as denial is not a great long term coping mechanism or stragety. Hence her slide into alcoholism around the time of RTL and its aftermath. Between Arne dumping her for a younger woman, and the glee many in the public felt with the failure of RTL feeling she had a long overdue comeuppance owed her, it may have been quite a shock to her. And she turned to booze to medicate. AT least that drunk driving arrest and efforts by her family finally woke her up to face her personal problems and addiction and she put in the work to get her life back in order.

Agreed. I don't think I've ever pondered it that way, that Diana used denial as a way to cope. I really think it's a shame that her second book didn't see the light of day. I've heard that freshly sober people can often see things about themselves- and the people around them- in a new light. I wonder if Diana was able to reconcile the part of her life that is Diana Ross, glamorous superstar singer, once in a century entertainer, with Diane Ross, scrappy, bitchy, insecure, self centered, around the way girl.

Did she look back and suddenly understand any bad feelings she might have left Mary with? Did she look back and suddenly understand how Flo's emotional issues could manifest itself? Diana always did a lot of talk about not understanding Florence. Since she and Flo are officially in the same club [[alcoholics), does she get it now? Maybe the second book addressed that. She sure as hell hasn't said a word about it publicly.

I wonder if her plan is to have the book released after her death. That seems like a Diana thing to do.

[jim aka jtigre99]

I think Central Park ultimately ended up being the thing that allowed her to weather her antics at Motown 25. That iconic performance became the thing that people talked about, not the failed Supremes reunion. After that, she goes on to release two or three big singles, including a #1 hit, and a platinum album. [[I think Swept Away went platinum, if not, it went gold.)

I've never bought into the thought that Diana's career tanked because of Dreamgirl. I'll always believe that the lack of good music did Diana in. But there is no denying that her reputation suffered a huge hit by Mary's book. Diana just couldn't [[or wouldn't) do much to take the bad taste out of people's mouths. [[Even though I also still hold the opinion that Mary's book wasn't as bad as some folks make it out to be. Most of Mary's digs are petty criticisms and recollections that prove Diana wasn't perfect. Very little of it proves that Diana was evil.)

Mary's book did not derail Diana's career, lack of good music during that time did. Diana had a huge legion of fans and the general public was still buying her music until the songs were no longer what they wanted. Dreamgirl did not show Diana as Diana Dearest, it showed her imperfections but Mary also included Flo's imperfections as well as her own. On Talk shows Mary always stated she never could dislike or hate anyone she had shared such a miracle with. She also would state that the boss had chosen her and she went for it and that she didn't even consider Flo or Mary because she was going after hers [[which is how the book also came off to me). Mary said that Diana thought that they were taking care of themselves and that nothing that was done was actually malicious AGAINST them but that it still did hurt. We have seen many celebrities do actual malicious things and get dragged through the press but if they have a good product, the public seems to forgive them. I liked Mary's book because it showed them all as real human beings and I ended up liking all of them more because now they were human as well as celebrities.

[BobbyC]

Well now I guess is the time for me to tell you guys something. I had a friend named Dave who worked at RCA in the 80's, during Diana's reign. He told me that DR was so demanding and nasty that after a few months no one wanted to work with her anymore. She threw tantrums, screamed at people-- if she felt like every single person wasn't performing for her at 100% capacity. Dave couldn't stand her and neither could anyone else at the company. She apparently thought she was still at Motown and could pull that kind of crap. Diana's bad attitude was the reason her career at RCA died rather quickly. So RCA took their resources and put them totally behind Hall and Oates, who were more consistent hit-makers anyway. DR did this to herself.