Blue-eyed soul on Motown and it's subsidiary labels.

[ivyfield]

Last week here in the UK I heard 'Gotta See Jane' on the radio and the DJ said "That's R Dean Taylor - one of only two white artists ever signed to Motown, the other being Chris Clark". When I'd calmed down, it got me thinking. Can you add to this list for me? Again, apologies if this subject has been covered before. The obvious additions I know of are: The Four Seasons, Debbie Dean, Charlene, Lynda Carter, Bobby Darin, The Lewis Sisters, Kiki Dee and Rare Earth. I know you're going to add more to those listed above, so thanks in advance.

[sansradio]

Ahem...Teena Marie, anyone? Also, Paul Petersen, Carrie McDowell, Sam Harris and probably several others I'm forgetting.

[jobucats]

Irene Ryan, aka Granny on the Beverly Hillbillies, recorded "No Time at All" from the musical 'Pippen' in 1973? Question is...was she actually a 'signed' Motown artist?

[paul_nixon]

Ahem...Teena Marie, anyone? Also, Paul Petersen, Carrie McDowell, Sam Harris and probably several others I'm forgetting.

Tommy Good, Lewis Sisters, Connie Haines, Dalton Boys, Granny 'Irene' Ryan, Hornets, Rick Robin, Johnny Powers, Little Lisa, Reuben Howell, Ron Miller, Stoney and Meatloaf, Tony Martin, Martin and Finlay, Underdogs, and loads more - the DJ wants shooting or re educating

[paul_nixon]

Well she had a single relase and was on the soundtrack so there must have been a contract

[Motown Eddie]

Rustix, Messengers, Power Of Zeus, Sunday Funnies, Road, Heart, Two Friends.

[Motown Eddie]

Also-Matrix, Severin Browne & Michael Quatro.

[mysterysinger]

Severin Brown,
Phil Cordell,
The Boones,
Michael McDonald,
Bruce Willis,
Andrew Logan,
Love Sculpture,
The Pretty Things,
Dorsey Burnette,
Mike Valvano,
Lesley Gore,
Jose Feliciano,
The Impact of Brass,
plus

[sansradio]

Jose Feliciano

He's Puerto Rican.

[Sotosound]

He's Puerto Rican.

What colour are his eyes?

[sansradio]

What colour are his eyes?

I'm sure you're funning, but when we talk about blue-eyed soul, we're not talking about the music of Latinx folks--or Smokey Robinson or Vanessa Williams, for that matter.

[Boogiedown]

And they went “We” “we” “we” all the way home

[sansradio]

Oh, and Michelle Aller as well. How could I forget her?

[woodward]

Soupy Sales.

[sansradio]

Soupy Sales.

Yes! Absolutely. And T.G. Sheppard [though I wouldn’t necessarily cast his work as “soul”] had a brief stint as well.

[gordy_hunk]

Tommy Good, Lewis Sisters, Connie Haines, Dalton Boys, Granny 'Irene' Ryan, Hornets, Rick Robin, Johnny Powers, Little Lisa, Reuben Howell, Ron Miller, Stoney and Meatloaf, Tony Martin, Martin and Finlay, Underdogs, and loads more - the DJ wants shooting or re educating

Last week, celebrating Valerie Simpson's birthday, a very well known veteran DJ [[not Tony Blackburn nor Paul Brown) said that she had written "Reachout I'll be there" for the 4 Tops....

I often wonder how people become a DJ when the knowledge is sometimes ... lacking ... or they just pour out something which they've not bothered to check.

[Sotosound]

I'm sure you're funning, but when we talk about blue-eyed soul, we're not talking about the music of Latinx folks--or Smokey Robinson or Vanessa Williams, for that matter.

Sorry, but I couldn't resist it.

The term "Blue-eyed Soul" really meant something back in the 1960s and 1970s, but perhaps it referred to a distinction and over-simplification that didn't fully exist even back then and that certainly doesn't exist in 2022.

If I were to have described a track such as "Gotta See Jane" by R. Dean Taylor back in 1968, I might have described it as "Blue-eyed Soul", but when I listen to it again in 2022 it's actually something of its own. There are elements of pop and rock and psychedelia and soul, and there are certainly Funk Brothers laying down an immense groove, but it certainly isn't just a white man singing black music. Instead, it's just R. Dean Taylor doing what he did and it's actually original and new and going places that many more consciously or unconsciously started to go in the years immediately following.

[Sotosound]

Last week, celebrating Valerie Simpson's birthday, a very well known veteran DJ [[not Tony Blackburn nor Paul Brown) said that she had written "Reachout I'll be there" for the 4 Tops....

I often wonder how people become a DJ when the knowledge is sometimes ... lacking ... or they just pour out something which they've not bothered to check.

He probably had no idea and was relying on a script.

Not all DJs are as deeply into their music as Tony Blackburn or Simon Mayo. Many are more interested in promoting their own brand and are better described as radio presenters.

[sansradio]

Sorry, but I couldn't resist it.

The term "Blue-eyed Soul" really meant something back in the 1960s and 1970s, but perhaps it referred to a distinction and over-simplification that didn't fully exist even back then and that certainly doesn't exist in 2022.

If I were to have described a track such as "Gotta See Jane" by R. Dean Taylor back in 1968, I might have described it as "Blue-eyed Soul", but when I listen to it again in 2022 it's actually something of its own. There are elements of pop and rock and psychedelia and soul, and there are certainly Funk Brothers laying down an immense groove, but it certainly isn't just a white man singing black music. Instead, it's just R. Dean Taylor doing what he did and it's actually original and new and going places that many more consciously or unconsciously started to go in the years immediately following.

I’ve long felt the same. The term kind of became a lazy marketing device, lumping disparate kinds of music together to suit the vagaries of commerce and sociology. It’s kind of akin to the lumping of everything Black into an “urban” box.
You’ve nailed it.

[mysterysinger]

He's Puerto Rican.

Not sure why you would want to exclude Jose Feliciano - I believe he's white - and he's good enough for Spotify's Blue Eyed Soul compilation https://open.spotify.com/album/1Gv8ERW0xvbZqG0Sep8LWx

[Sotosound]

Many thanks.

Better to nail it than to screw it up.

[sansradio]

Not sure why you would want to exclude Jose Feliciano - I believe he's white - and he's good enough for Spotify's Blue Eyed Soul compilation https://open.spotify.com/album/1Gv8ERW0xvbZqG0Sep8LWx

That’s interesting. I wonder how he’d feel about that classification. He’s an admixture of West African, Spanish and Taíno, to the best of my knowledge, and has always identified as a man of color.

[mysterysinger]

It's an interesting discussion.

If he identifies himself as a man of colour I'd certainly be interested to see that. If that's what he says then that's what he is.

This article describes him as of white ethnicity https://gossipgist.com/jose-feliciano

[soulwally]

He probably had no idea and was relying on a script.

Not all DJs are as deeply into their music as Tony Blackburn or Simon Mayo. Many are more interested in promoting their own brand and are better described as radio presenters.

Even esteemed Northern Soul/Modern Soul/ Whatever Soul DJ Richard Searling gets things wrong. The other week he had Paul Williams as lead singer on My Baby and Ashford and Simpson writing something they didn’t [[can’t recall what!!)

[Boogiedown]

That’s interesting. I wonder how he’d feel about that classification. He’s an admixture of West African, Spanish and Taíno, to the best of my knowledge, and has always identified as a man of color.

Shouldnt That nowadays be a “person” of color ?? WE’re just saying’….

[Sotosound]

It's an interesting discussion.

If he identifies himself as a man of colour I'd certainly be interested to see that. If that's what he says then that's what he is.

This article describes him as of white ethnicity https://gossipgist.com/jose-feliciano

Unless we use bleach on our skin, we are all people of colour.

In fact, white is a colour, well, certainly when bought as a paint or viewed through a prism.

So, where does that leave us?

The term 'color' or 'colour' actually perpetuates an outmoded perception from centuries ago, when dark-skinned people were rarely seen by people from much of Europe. And dark-skinned people were actually no more coloured than Europeans - they were just differently coloured.

In fact, our skin colour and eye colour are simply evolutionary responses to the climate where our ancestors grew and evolved. They say nothing else about us at all, and they certainly have no cultural content. That comes from where we live and who we grow up with.

What we're really left with is good old tribalism, which I regard as a blight upon humanity, as the root of so many of our problems, and as the cause of so many of our conflicts.

[jobucats]

Well she had a single relase and was on the soundtrack so there must have been a contract

Thank you, paul nixon. So with that, we'll need to add Jill Clayburgh to the list because she also was on the Pippen soundtrack album.

[sansradio]

Unless we use bleach on our skin, we are all people of colour.

In fact, white is a colour, well, certainly when bought as a paint or viewed through a prism.

So, where does that leave us?

The term 'color' or 'colour' actually perpetuates an outmoded perception from centuries ago, when dark-skinned people were rarely seen by people from much of Europe. And dark-skinned people were actually no more coloured than Europeans - they were just differently coloured.

In fact, our skin colour and eye colour are simply evolutionary responses to the climate where our ancestors grew and evolved. They say nothing else about us at all, and they certainly have no cultural content. That comes from where we live and who we grow up with.

What we're really left with is good old tribalism, which I regard as a blight upon humanity, as the root of so many of our problems, and as the cause of so many of our conflicts.

I couldn’t have said it better myself. The myth of “race” vs. the reality of racism is the crux of the matter.

[mysterysinger]

Football commentator - "For those of you watching in black and white, Spurs are in the all-yellow strip"

[mysterysinger]

Did anyone mention Tom Clay?
or The Valadiers
Nick and The Jaguars
The Abbey Tavern Singers
David Alexander
The Honest Men

[jack020]

Dutch group The Cats and dutch singer Waylon.

[mysterysinger]

Who can forget Christine Schumacher?

[Guy]

Ahem...Teena Marie, anyone? Also, Paul Petersen, Carrie McDowell, Sam Harris and probably several others I'm forgetting.

Teena Marie is NOT "blue-eyed soul." Unless Lorraine Ellison, Linda Jones and Yvonne Fair are also blue-eyed soul. That title diminishes Teena's artistry and musicianship, and her commitment to enriching Black music over 3 decades.

SIDEBAR: a friend who worked at Motown in the 80s said that Prince admired her and wanted to work with her after she left Motown but ultimately felt her creative expression was "too Black" for them to collaborate. lol.

[sansradio]

Teena Marie is NOT "blue-eyed soul." Unless Lorraine Ellison, Linda Jones and Yvonne Fair are also blue-eyed soul. That title diminishes Teena's artistry and musicianship, and her commitment to enriching Black music over 3 decades.

Soupy Sales isn’t “blue-eyed soul,” either. If you’ll carefully reread the initial post, the point is that a radio announcer stated that Motown only signed two white artists—-R. Dean Taylor and Chris Clark. That’s categorically wrong, no matter how you label the music, and that’s what this thread is trying to remedy.

[MIKEW-UK]

Michael Edward Campbell. Tracks produced by Bob Babbit, Tom Baird, Russ Terrana and Michael Edward Campbell

[MIKEW-UK]

T.G.Sheppard on Melodyland, subsequently Hitsville, owned by Motown

[Guy]

Soupy Sales isn’t “blue-eyed soul,” either. If you’ll carefully reread the initial post, the point is that a radio announcer stated that Motown only signed two white artists—-R. Dean Taylor and Chris Clark. That’s categorically wrong, no matter how you label the music, and that’s what this thread is trying to remedy.

That is not at all clear. It appears that you were labelling Teena as blue-eyed soul. Maybe it's your accent...

[TomatoTom123]

I guess we could make the distinction between “white artists at Motown” and “blue-eyed soul artists at Motown” [as in white artists who recorded R&B/soul music at the label]. Although sometimes that line itself is blurry…

[robb_k]

Did anyone mention Tom Clay?
or The Valadiers
Nick and The Jaguars
The Abbey Tavern Singers
David Alexander
The Honest Men

I think these Irish Canadian people would have been shocked to find out they were "Soul Singers" of any sort!

I wouldn't call The Honest Men's music genre as "Soul Music". Neither would I call Nick andThe Jaguars Garage guitar instrumentals, "Soul Music".

[robb_k]

Severin Brown,
Phil Cordell,
The Boones,
Michael McDonald,
Bruce Willis,
Andrew Logan,
Love Sculpture,
The Pretty Things,
Dorsey Burnette,
Mike Valvano,
Lesley Gore,
Jose Feliciano,
The Impact of Brass,
plus

Did those singers really sing "Soul Music"?

[robb_k]

Rustix, Messengers, Power Of Zeus, Sunday Funnies, Road, Heart, Two Friends.

Do you REALLY consider the music these groups sang, as "Soul Music"???

The Two Friends were Clyde Wilson [[AKA "Steve Mancha"), and Wilbur Jackson, who were both African-Americans. Did they actually try to sing like "Caucasians" trying to sing like African Americans? Or did they BOTH have blue eyes? I say no! Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have bought their record.

[robb_k]

Tommy Good, Lewis Sisters, Connie Haines, Dalton Boys, Granny 'Irene' Ryan, Hornets, Rick Robin, Johnny Powers, Little Lisa, Reuben Howell, Ron Miller, Stoney and Meatloaf, Tony Martin, Martin and Finlay, Underdogs, and loads more - the DJ wants shooting or re educating

I know that Motown signed Ron Miller to a songwriter contract, and he recorded demo records for songs he wrote. But, did Motown also sign him to an artist [[singer's) contract, and really release a commercial record on he that they actually marketed? Or did they just release a record of his to go through the motions, which had no marketing push from the company, as they did with the Lewis Sisters?

[mysterysinger]

Did those singers really sing "Soul Music"?

The original question Robb is about white artists signed to Motown - it's irrelevant what, or if, they sang.

[robb_k]

The original question Robb is about white artists signed to Motown - it's irrelevant what, or if, they sang.

Huh???? Am I in The Twilight Zone [[as The Astors once sang)????

The way I read it, the title of this thread is: Blue-Eyed Soul On Motown And It's Subsidiary Labels.

It seems that several others on this thread were confused about what this thread was about. The first post didn't make it clear that he or she was changing what he or she wanted us to post about in the post from what he or she asked us to post about in the thread title. In the post, he or she just asked for help with his or her list". If he or she decided to change the point of the thread, he or she should have changed the thread title to match what the post requested, and also should have been more specific about whether or not the list we were to add to was "Caucasian" or "White" artists or "Blue Eyed Soul Singers". My point here was already brought up earlier in this thread, but, I was so busy looking for listed artists whose recordings couldn't be even remotely considered "Soul Music", that I didn't notice them. [[just to avoid any Internet strife or irritation, this is the nearest emoji I could find for flakiness on my part, as opposed to sticking my tongue out at anyone). "Peace, Brother."

[Ed H]

Motown successfully blurred the line between soul and pop anyway.

[mysterysinger]

Robb - we love you.

Ed - great point.

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

I think I get it now. Can someone from the UK tell me what the term "Blue-Eyed Soul" means there? In the US, it's the general term for White singers [[because Whites, in general, in general, in general, in general are the race with blue eyes) who sing with a "Black" sound. And please don't start a pointless rage about what exactly a "Black sound" is. So the thread's title asks about something that we in the US would understand to be about White Motown artists who sound Black. However, if I'm understanding it correctly, in actuality, actuality, ACTUALITY, this is about any and all Motown [[and subsidiary labels) artists who were White, regardless if they sang soul, rock, country, polkas or bluegrass calypso laments.

[Sotosound]

I think I get it now. Can someone from the UK tell me what the term "Blue-Eyed Soul" means there? In the US, it's the general term for White singers [[because Whites, in general, in general, in general, in general are the race with blue eyes) who sing with a "Black" sound. And please don't start a pointless rage about what exactly a "Black sound" is. So the thread's title asks about something that we in the US would understand to be about White Motown artists who sound Black. However, if I'm understanding it correctly, in actuality, actuality, ACTUALITY, this is about any and all Motown [[and subsidiary labels) artists who were White, regardless if they sang soul, rock, country, polkas or bluegrass calypso laments.

A point well made.

The OP's thread title and initial post don't actually belong together.

Perhaps @ivyfield will join us and clarify exactly what was intended. This will prevent any further confusion.

[144man]

Do you REALLY consider the music these groups sang, as "Soul Music"???

The Two Friends were Clyde Wilson [[AKA "Steve Mancha"), and Wilbur Jackson, who were both African-Americans. Did they actually try to sing like "Caucasians" trying to sing like African Americans? Or did they BOTH have blue eyes? I say no! Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have bought their record.

Some but not all of the tracks The Rustix recorded were definitely Soul Music.

[144man]

Don't forget Connie Van Dyke's Oh Freddie / It Hurt Me Too.