Blue-eyed soul on Motown and it's subsidiary labels.

**Motown Eddie** · 09-07-2022, 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by robb_k

Attachment 19894
Do you REALLY consider the music these groups sang, as "Soul Music"???

The Two Friends were Clyde Wilson [[AKA "Steve Mancha"), and Wilbur Jackson, who were both African-Americans. Did they actually try to sing like "Caucasians" trying to sing like African Americans? Or did they BOTH have blue eyes? I say no! Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have bought their record.

Excuse me but the Two Friends that I'm referring to in my post were [according to Discogs] were a folk-rock duo, Bucky Wiener & Chip Carpenter, that released an album on Motown's Natural Resources label in 1972. Like others on this thread, I listed White performers that recorded for Motown and didn't take into consideration whether or not they sang Soul Music and that was a mistake.

And their single released overseas.

**Sotosound** · 09-07-2022, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by Motown Eddie

Excuse me but the Two Friends that I'm referring to in my post were [according to Discogs] were a folk-rock duo, Bucky Wiener & Chip Carpenter, that released an album on Motown's Natural Resources label in 1972. Like others on this thread, I listed White performers that recorded for Motown and didn't take into consideration whether or not they sang Soul Music and that was a mistake.

@ivyfield listed Lynda Carter, Rare Earth, Charlene, and others at the start of this thread, none of whom could ever have been referred to as doing Blue-eyed Soul.

Hence my request that they clarify exactly what they intended.

At present they appear to have launched the thread and then gone AWOL while posters get tangled up trying to resolve the contradictory contents of the initial post.

Was this thread intended as a wind-up?

**Motown Eddie** · 09-07-2022, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by robb_k

Attachment 19894
Do you REALLY consider the music these groups sang, as "Soul Music"???

The Two Friends were Clyde Wilson [[AKA "Steve Mancha"), and Wilbur Jackson, who were both African-Americans. Did they actually try to sing like "Caucasians" trying to sing like African Americans? Or did they BOTH have blue eyes? I say no! Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have bought their record.

The Two Friends [Clyde Wilson & Wilbur Jackson] record, "Just Too Much To Hope For"/"Family Reunion" came out on Harvey Fuqua's H.P.C. label in 1962 [prior to producer Harvey Fuqua joining the Motown family and bringing some of his acts with him]. "Just Too Much Too Hope For" however was remade years later at Motown by The Monitors, Tammi Terrell and Marvin Gaye & Kim Weston.

**Boogiedown** · 09-07-2022, 01:30 PM

**mysterysinger** · 09-07-2022, 02:32 PM

The Two Friends album is available on CD - it's pretty good too.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/cookep...57688699354790

**mysterysinger** · 09-07-2022, 02:34 PM

For my part I took the meaning of the thread to be white artists signed to Motown - seemed clear enough to me - but does it really matter that much? It's an interesting discussion either way.

**WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance** · 09-07-2022, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by mysterysinger

For my part I took the meaning of the thread to be white artists signed to Motown - seemed clear enough to me - but does it really matter that much? It's an interesting discussion either way.

The thing is it does matter that much. I've noticed over the years in social media that communication has become murkier and murkier. That's why I asked if someone could explain if the term Blue-Eyed Soul means something different in the UK than in the US. It would explain why there has been confusion here. Your understanding of the thread's title isn't at all what someone in the US would understand that term to mean. It shouldn't be a big deal but honestly, I'm seeing it everywhere that there's a breakdown in communication and it just ends up frustrating everyone. I think I just need to shut up now and disappear once again from social media.

**paul_nixon** · 09-08-2022, 05:00 AM

Originally Posted by mysterysinger

The Two Friends album is available on CD - it's pretty good too.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/cookep...57688699354790

Wow never seen or heard that LP is it typically Motown or what?

**paul_nixon** · 09-08-2022, 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by Motown Eddie

The Two Friends [Clyde Wilson & Wilbur Jackson] record, "Just Too Much To Hope For"/"Family Reunion" came out on Harvey Fuqua's H.P.C. label in 1962 [prior to producer Harvey Fuqua joining the Motown family and bringing some of his acts with him]. "Just Too Much Too Hope For" however was remade years later at Motown by The Monitors, Tammi Terrell and Marvin Gaye & Kim Weston.

It appears that DFTMC blurs the lines between the early Two Friends who do appear to have recorded a couple of sides for the label in the very early days and which remain unreleased and the country act that appeared on the Natural Resources/Mowest outlet in the 70's. An easy mistake when the act has an identical name

**mysterysinger** · 09-08-2022, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by paul_nixon

Wow never seen or heard that LP is it typically Motown or what?

No not a Motown sound - more on the lines of America or Crosby, Still, Nash I would say.

**mysterysinger** · 09-08-2022, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance

The thing is it does matter that much. I've noticed over the years in social media that communication has become murkier and murkier. That's why I asked if someone could explain if the term Blue-Eyed Soul means something different in the UK than in the US. It would explain why there has been confusion here. Your understanding of the thread's title isn't at all what someone in the US would understand that term to mean. It shouldn't be a big deal but honestly, I'm seeing it everywhere that there's a breakdown in communication and it just ends up frustrating everyone. I think I just need to shut up now and disappear once again from social media.

But a thread title can only be short and sweet which is why it pays to always read the post. That left me in no doubt that the thread was about white artists signed to Motown - especially given the examples quoted. That doesn't need anyone to explain the term "Blue Eyed Soul".

**motony** · 09-08-2022, 05:46 PM

the first time I heard the term "Blue-Eyed Soul" was in reference to the Righteous Brothers, way back in 1964.

**mysterysinger** · 09-08-2022, 06:14 PM

In all fairness if anyone mentions "Blue Eyed Soul" I immediately think of The Righteous Brothers.

**robb_k** · 09-09-2022, 11:38 AM

Sorry! I didn't know about this Duo. But 1972 is quite late for me, and when I started my UN work in Africa and Asia, which took me away from USA most of the year. Interesting coincidence.

**Sotosound** · 09-10-2022, 03:32 AM

Originally Posted by mysterysinger

In all fairness if anyone mentions "Blue Eyed Soul" I immediately think of The Righteous Brothers.

The term might well have started as a description of what they did back in the 60s.

**Motown Eddie** · 09-10-2022, 04:33 AM

Originally Posted by robb_k

Sorry! I didn't know about this Duo. But 1972 is quite late for me, and when I started my UN work in Africa and Asia, which took me away from USA most of the year. Interesting coincidence.

I Understand. It's easy since there was more than one act using the name 'Two Friends' [even though it was years apart]. And you were doing your UN work at the time when the Two Friends LP came out in 1972.

PS: Thank You for your Service with the UN.

**mysterysinger** · 09-10-2022, 09:07 AM

Then there was the Northern Lights album "Vancouver Dreaming" on Natural Resources which is also available on a Big Pink CD - another very good album really and a sound I would liken to The Association or Mamas and Papas to an extent.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/cookep...57667021148198

**robb_k** · 09-10-2022, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Motown Eddie

The Two Friends [Clyde Wilson & Wilbur Jackson] record, "Just Too Much To Hope For"/"Family Reunion" came out on Harvey Fuqua's H.P.C. label in 1962 [prior to producer Harvey Fuqua joining the Motown family and bringing some of his acts with him]. "Just Too Much Too Hope For" however was remade years later at Motown by The Monitors, Tammi Terrell and Marvin Gaye & Kim Weston.

I was referring to The Two Friends duo being picked up by Motown in The Harvey-Tri-Phi-HPC-Message folding in with Motown in 1963. At east Clyde Wilson was signed by Motown as a songwriter, as he had, at least 10+ songwriting credits. I can't, at this moment, remember a specific "Jackson" as a Motown songwriting credit on a 1963 or 1964 issued record, or Jobete acetate, or Motown acetate or vinyl demo record, but, I seem to remember seeing one from that period. So, I had aways thought that BOTH members of that duo had been part of Motown for, at least several months [[Wilson, at least the last half of 1963, and al of 1964). But, I never saw a post-HPC Motown-produced recording by that pair. In any case, this is O.T., as they weren't "Caucasians", or "Due-eyed Soul Singers".

**bob_olhsson** · 09-25-2022, 02:52 PM

Berry Gordy's original goal was clearly to create another Columbia Records and not just a Chess or Atlantic. Mike Valvano told me his rock band, Mike and the Modifiers, was the second artist Berry ever signed after the Miracles.

**Roger Polhill** · 09-25-2022, 05:16 PM

Clyde Wilson later wrote as Steve Mancha.

**robb_k** · 09-27-2022, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Roger Polhill

Clyde Wilson later wrote as Steve Mancha.

Yes, but I don't remember any credits for Steve Mancha on a Motown issue. I remember a few for Don Juan Mancha [[from whom Steve got that pen name), on early Tamla releases, as he was a songwriter for Motown in 1960 and '61.