[REMOVE ADS]




Results 1 to 38 of 38

Thread: The Monitors

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    3,983
    Rep Power
    351

    The Monitors

    Adapted from Soulwalking

    The Monitors were a group who hailed from Detroit and comprised of:

    Richard Street, Sandra Fagin, John 'Maurice' Fagin and Warren Harris

    Formed in Detroit, Warren and Richard were part of a group called the Fagins, before a name change, calling themselves the Majestics.

    They were due to release a song for Motown's V.I.P. Records called 'Hello Love', however, the song was shelved, but a later track entitled 'Say You' b/w 'All For Someone' did well.

    The group changed their name to the Monitors, as the Majestics name had been taken by another group. They released:

    VIP 25028 1965 "Say You"/"All For Someone"
    VIP 25032 1966 "Greetings [[This Is Uncle Sam)"/" Number One In Your Heart"
    VIP 25039 1966 "Since I Lost You Girl"/"Don't Put Off Till Tomorrow What You Can Do Today"
    VIP 25046 1968 "Bring Back The Love"/"The Further You Look The Less You See"
    Soul 35049 1969 "Step By Step [[Hand In Hand)"/"Time Is Passin' By"


    The group members were retained by Motown as staff members with Richard Street employed in Motown's Quality Control department. Richard toured with the Temptations as a replacement for an ailing Paul Williams, eventually taking his place, and the Monitors were finally discontinued.

    In the late Eighties, the Monitors were reformed with a different line-up, in order to record for British producer, Ian Levine's, Motorcity imprint.

    The line-up featured Darrell Littlejohn, Warren Harris, Maurice Fagin, Herschel Hunter, and Leah Harris. The group released an album entitled 'Grazing in the Grass' for the label, along with a single, entitled 'Standing Still'.

    Videos of the band are scarce, but thanks to the Motorcity Project we have these.....

    "Grazing In The Grass"




    "Day By Day"




    "Going To A Go Go"

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    3,983
    Rep Power
    351
    "The Tears Of A Clown"


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,239
    Rep Power
    193
    I really like the Monitors and eagerly await any unreleased song. I don`t know why but a favourite is "Winchester Cathedral". I`ve always hated the original! I don`t care for any of the Motorcity offerings - it just ain`t Motown.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    14,979
    Rep Power
    402
    Quote Originally Posted by mysterysinger View Post
    Adapted from Soulwalking

    The Monitors were a group who hailed from Detroit and comprised of:

    [[1) Richard Street, Sandra Fagin, John 'Maurice' Fagin and Warren Harris
    Formed in Detroit, Warren and Richard were part of a group called the Fagins, before a name change, calling themselves the Majestics.

    They were due to release a song for Motown's V.I.P. Records called 'Hello Love', however, the song was shelved, but a later track entitled 'Say You' b/w 'All For Someone' did well.

    [[2) The group changed their name to the Monitors, as the Majestics name had been taken by another group. They released:

    VIP 25028 1965 "Say You"/"All For Someone"
    VIP 25032 1966 "Greetings [[This Is Uncle Sam)"/" Number One In Your Heart"
    VIP 25039 1966 "Since I Lost You Girl"/"Don't Put Off Till Tomorrow What You Can Do Today"
    VIP 25046 1968 "Bring Back The Love"/"The Further You Look The Less You See"
    Soul 35049 1969 "Step By Step [[Hand In Hand)"/"Time Is Passin' By"


    [[3) The group members were retained by Motown as staff members with Richard Street employed in Motown's Quality Control department. Richard toured with the Temptations as a replacement for an ailing Paul Williams, eventually taking his place, and the Monitors were finally discontinued.

    In the late Eighties, the Monitors were reformed with a different line-up, in order to record for British producer, Ian Levine's, Motorcity imprint.

    The line-up featured Darrell Littlejohn, Warren Harris, Maurice Fagin, Herschel Hunter, and Leah Harris. The group released an album entitled 'Grazing in the Grass' for the label, along with a single, entitled 'Standing Still'.
    Name:  av-5.jpg
Views: 522
Size:  21.1 KB
    This Soulwalking story leaves out information, and so, is a little bit misleading in places.

    [[1) Warren Harris and Richard Street were never in a group called The Fagins WITHOUT Sandra and Maurice Fagin included, IF, indeed, they were ever in The Fagins' group. The way I've always heard it was that Maurice and Sandra had their own group, with a couple of other members, and when their two other members quit, Sandra and Maurice joined Richard and Warren in the latter pair's group, which was The Majestics, who were the same popular Detroit Majestics group who had been recording and playing local gigs since 1959.

    They first had a 1959 release on Robert West's Contour Records [[from whom Motown's Contours took their name). They were led by Johnny Mitchell, and later recorded for William, "Tony" Ewing's Chex label, having a local minor hit with "Give Me Cigarette" on Chex 1000, recorded in late 1961, but started to hit in early 1962. Later, after a non-chart release of "Happy and Blue" on Chex 1004, they had a minor local/regional hit with "Gwendolyn/Lonely Heart" in late '62 on Chex 1006. Popcorn Wylie [[as a free-lance producer/arranger) ran their sessions. In any case, Richard Street, who had not joined his fellow Distants group members when they signed with Motown in early 1961 and had been songwriting and looking for work in record production, got his chance to do just that in early 1962.

    He was hired by Don Davis, part owner of Thelma Records [[along with Berry Gordy, Jr.'s ex-wife Thelma's parents, Hazel and Robert Coleman), as a songwriter and assistant producer. He wrote several good quality songs, and did well learning the production ropes under Davis. He had also formed a new "Distants" group, and was singing gigs with them on the side. They soon sang for Davis, and he signed them to Thelma. They recorded "Answer Me" and "Save Me From This Misery" in late Spring 1962, with Norman Whitfield producing [[another young, talented producer Davis hired). The way I've always read and heard it was that when The second Distants group broke up, Johnny Mitchell and another member were leaving The Majestics. And the two partial groups joined together, but The Distants, still under contract to Thelma, decided that the new group should use The Majestics' name.

    I'm not sure if Warren Harris joined The Majestics in early 1963, when one of their former members quit, OR, he had been a member of The Fagins, along with Maurice and Sandra, and they all joined Street's new Majestics group at the same time. I think it was the former, probably after all of Street's 2nd Distants group members, and maybe all but one of Johnny Mitchell's old group members had left. They kept the group name, even after the last original Majestic was gone. Street had left Thelma in his capacity as an assistant producer and songwriter, to take a songwriting and assistant producer job at Motown in late 1962. But he and his Majestics group were still signed to Thelma as recording artists into early 1963. I have read that The NEW Majestics group, with The Fagins, Harris and Street [[and, maybe, or maybe not, one last original Majestics member) recorded original recordings of "Cry" [[Which Tom DePierro and I chose to put on Motown's "From The Vaults" LP), "Hello Love" and a couple of other cuts for Thelma in late 1963. I believe that Richard Street took those master tapes with him to Motown, after Don Davis left Thelma [[and Davis took all the master tapes of recording sessions he ran, and so, he may have let Street take the Majestics' tapes). At least "Cry" and "Hello Love" seem to have been re-recorded at Motown [[with new vocals for each, and updated instrumental mixes) in 1964, after Street got Motown to sign his Majestics group. The original [[Thelma) version of "Hello Love" had a horrible, moaning melody on ALL the vocals, and the Motown background mix is many times better. The original version of "Cry" is really great on the DooWop-Four Seasons-type vocals, and the backing is simpler, so it was a really nice older sound. The Motown background is really good, and makes it more modern. I like both versions very much, but I like the original vocal better [[maybe because I've heard it hundreds of times more). But, both I and Tom chose it over the newer version, so, I think it holds up.

    And THAT is why Thelma Gordy is listed as producer of both those cuts on Motown's in-house documents. I talked to many people who worked at 2648 Grand Blvd., in 1964, and they told me [[and they'll tell you) that Thelma Gordy never worked at Motown's premises. She was credited because she was the so-called executive producer on their original recordings for Thelma Records [[I think they were recorded at United Sound). But, I think that Richard Street ran those sessions, maybe with Joey "Kingfish" Stribling or Don Davis' help.

    [[2) Even after "Hello Love", slated to be released in October 1964 was cancelled and shelved, The future Monitors were STILL named THE MAJESTICS. I even saw several Majestics White DJ Majestics issues of "Say You", as late as November, 1965 [[and I bought one). So, Motown's changing their name to The Monitors must have happened just before their store-stocker press run, because they found out about East L.A.'s Faro/Linda group because they must have had their first nationally charting record at that time. And Detroit's Majestics had never really had a nationally charting record.

    [[3) When Richard Street first left The Monitors to fill in part-time for Paul with The Temptations and to also take the Quality Control job, The Monitors didn't break up. If I remember correctly, they were dropped by Motown, but they added a replacement member, continued playing gigs, and moved Warren Harris to lead. They may have worked day jobs with Street in Motown's Quality Control for up to a year, or so. But not so long after, they got a contract with Buddah Records, in New York, through ex-Motowner, Robert Bateman, and put out a single that got some decent sales action, "Fence Around Your Heart". It was co-written by Bateman and Sidney Barnes. Like most of Bateman's New York productions, it has a sound reminiscent of Motown's. I bought it new.

    Here it is:


    I find it interesting that Herschel Hunter [[brother of The Voice Masters' Ty Hunter), and ex-leader of Detroit's Moments [[who were produced by ex-Motowner, Herman Griffin) took over Street's position, and Sandra was replaced by Warren Harris' wife [[or sister?). They have a good sound. Darrell Littlejohn is a better "Smokey imitator" than Billy Griffin was.
    Last edited by robb_k; 08-29-2022 at 07:45 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    14,979
    Rep Power
    402
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Polhill View Post
    I really like the Monitors and eagerly await any unreleased song. I don`t know why but a favourite is "Winchester Cathedral". I`ve always hated the original! I don`t care for any of the Motorcity offerings - it just ain`t Motown.
    Name:  av-5.jpg
Views: 533
Size:  21.1 KB
    I agree. I don't like the sound of the instrumentals. They are just never nearly as sharp as The original 1964-70 Motown recordings. They sound muddy, and just way too modern.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    14,979
    Rep Power
    402
    Name:  av-5.jpg
Views: 530
Size:  21.1 KB
    Here are 2 of my favourite Majestics'/Monitors' cuts, - both went unreleased until at least 15 years later, and the latter, my favourite song by this group, wasn't released officially by Motown until, I believe, after 2000 [[and then it has NEVER been released on vinyl in USA). What mistake by Quality Control [[ironically, for whom Richard Street later worked).

    Here's "Cry" Motown version from 1964:


    Here's "Crying In The Night" from 1966:


    Sorry, all the videos of it I found on You Tube are muddy. The REAL sound of it is MUCH, MUCH cleaner and crisper than this. You should hear it off a mint UK or European Tamla-Motown 45.
    Last edited by robb_k; 08-28-2022 at 03:50 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,239
    Rep Power
    193
    Your history of the Monitors was brilliant Robb, thank you very much. I hope that you are working on a book with all your thoughts and experiences.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    463
    Rep Power
    71
    Robb thanks for the comprehensive summary, it is so useful. One 45 has been bothering me for some time, wondering what you think of this one. Including the VIP issue there has only been nine 45's by the Detroit Majestics.

    I did come across a 45 by the Majestics on the Marlin label which was one of Henry Stones labels out of FL the song "Nitey-Nite" an early one from 1956. I'm no expert but it does sound like the Detroit group, but maybe it is too early for the Detroit group and my hearing not so good? Either way it's a great song.

    Last edited by Graham Jarvis; 08-28-2022 at 03:29 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    14,979
    Rep Power
    402
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Polhill View Post
    Your history of the Monitors was brilliant Robb, thank you very much. I hope that you are working on a book with all your thoughts and experiences.
    Name:  av-5.jpg
Views: 533
Size:  21.1 KB
    I've been around for 3 quarters of a century. I'm too old to spare the time to write my own book. The only way I would consider it is if I would be interviewed in a series of recorded interviews for however long it would take to answer people's questions about Motown, and then have a ghost writer write it up under my direction, with my being involved with the publisher's editor and Ghost Writer in the planning of its scope and areas of concentration, and order of categories covered, and with my periodic and final editing to keep the effort on track, and make sure it is the best it can be in the end. I'm too much invested in spending time with my close family and closest friends [[while we still are around) to be able to spare a few years of work. If my name is to go on something, I want it to be the best it can be.

    But from now until I leave this planet, I want to be mostly relaxing, with friends and family talking about old times, drawing drawings for little kids, and travelling a little less [[Can't stop that too much, because my close family and best friends are scattered over 5 countries [[all of which where I still reside part year). I have cut down my work to about 1/3 time, so it's more like a hobby, and I'm now just an ad hoc freelancer, with no set quotas, assignments or deadlines. I finish stories when I can, send them to my editor, and they buy them and pay me a month later, or so.

    I don't mind answering questions, or pointing out errors or omissions in published articles, but I have no real energy towards writing a book about Motown, or Soul music, or Ice Hockey, or how life has changed over the last 75 years, or anything else, right now, and I'll probably feel less and less like doing that as the days, weeks, months, and years go by.

    I have no problem with someone going through all the active and archived threads on this forum, which involved Motown, and writing "The Soulful Detroit take on Motown's Classical Period". Too bad we lost so many classic threads when Lowell changed from the old forum platform to the new one. But, we still have a lot of great discussions from groups of old-time posters like Ralph, Russ, and all the ex Motown employees, Detroit singers, musicians, producers, sound engineers and record collectors. I think that just like the name of this website and forum is "Soulful Detroit", the original intent was that it waste be mainly about Motown and Detroit Soul music, and around 2003-2004, we broadened it to all Soul music. But some of you might remember that a really high % of the threads were about Motown and other Detroit records, artists, the Detroit music scene during the '60s, and mostly '60s Soul music, when we started out in 2001, and for about the first 3-4 years.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    14,979
    Rep Power
    402
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Jarvis View Post
    Robb thanks for the comprehensive summary, it is so useful. One 45 has been bothering me for some time, wondering what you think of this one. Including the VIP issue there has only been nine 45's by the Detroit Majestics.

    I did come across a 45 by the Majestics on the Marlin label which was one of Henry Stones labels out of FL the song "Nitey-Nite" an early one from 1956. I'm no expert but it does sound like the Detroit group, but maybe it is too early for the Detroit group and my hearing not so good? Either way it's a great song.

    Name:  av-5.jpg
Views: 421
Size:  21.1 KB
    To be honest, that Marlin cut sounds like it was recorded in New York, and it was sung in a New York style. I wonder if they were a New York group whose recordings were leased by Stone? They must be a different group from Johnny Mitchell's Detroit group. As far as I know, Detroit's Majestics first commercial release was their Contour Records 45 in early 1959. And Mitchell's voice is deeper than the Marlin group's really high-voiced lead singer, and the background members' voices sound different from those of the Detroit groups. Also, I can hear familiar Detroit session musicians playing on ALL their Detroit label 45s. I don't hear anyone I recognise playing on the Marlin record, other than the arrangement is the New York 1956 style, and the songwriting also sounds very New Yorkish. But, remember, Florida hadn't had its growth boom yet, which really ramped up starting in 1959 or so. So, it wouldn't be unreasonable that a New York group vacationing in Miami in Winter, recorded for Stone, and they took the charts from an arrangement by their NY-based arranger down to Miami with them, because they agreed to record for Stone while he was in New York. He probably lived in New York half the year, anyway. I always thought these Majestics were a NY group. I think they had a few other releases on small NY indie labels. Stone also could have recorded them in New York, and just released it on his Miami label. The label looks like a style that was used in a 1956 New York pressing plant. I have hundreds of 45s with that label style, and they are almost all on New York labels. I don't remember a Miami pressing plant using that style. I think that's a New York pressing.
    Last edited by robb_k; 08-29-2022 at 07:46 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    463
    Rep Power
    71
    Thanks Robb, there were NY Majestics, Texas, L.A , Everett Mass, UK & Trenton New Jersey. & probably others. More likely then to be from NY.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    584
    Rep Power
    206
    Quote Originally Posted by robb_k View Post
    Name:  av-5.jpg
Views: 533
Size:  21.1 KB
    I've been around for 3 quarters of a century. I'm too old to spare the time to write my own book. The only way I would consider it is if I would be interviewed in a series of recorded interviews for however long it would take to answer people's questions about Motown, and then have a ghost writer write it up under my direction, with my being involved with the publisher's editor and Ghost Writer in the planning of its scope and areas of concentration, and order of categories covered, and with my periodic and final editing to keep the effort on track, and make sure it is the best it can be in the end. I'm too much invested in spending time with my close family and closest friends [[while we still are around) to be able to spare a few years of work. If my name is to go on something, I want it to be the best it can be.

    But from now until I leave this planet, I want to be mostly relaxing, with friends and family talking about old times, drawing drawings for little kids, and travelling a little less [[Can't stop that too much, because my close family and best friends are scattered over 5 countries [[all of which where I still reside part year). I have cut down my work to about 1/3 time, so it's more like a hobby, and I'm now just an ad hoc freelancer, with no set quotas, assignments or deadlines. I finish stories when I can, send them to my editor, and they buy them and pay me a month later, or so.

    I don't mind answering questions, or pointing out errors or omissions in published articles, but I have no real energy towards writing a book about Motown, or Soul music, or Ice Hockey, or how life has changed over the last 75 years, or anything else, right now, and I'll probably feel less and less like doing that as the days, weeks, months, and years go by.

    I have no problem with someone going through all the active and archived threads on this forum, which involved Motown, and writing "The Soulful Detroit take on Motown's Classical Period". Too bad we lost so many classic threads when Lowell changed from the old forum platform to the new one. But, we still have a lot of great discussions from groups of old-time posters like Ralph, Russ, and all the ex Motown employees, Detroit singers, musicians, producers, sound engineers and record collectors. I think that just like the name of this website and forum is "Soulful Detroit", the original intent was that it waste be mainly about Motown and Detroit Soul music, and around 2003-2004, we broadened it to all Soul music. But some of you might remember that a really high % of the threads were about Motown and other Detroit records, artists, the Detroit music scene during the '60s, and mostly '60s Soul music, when we started out in 2001, and for about the first 3-4 years.
    Robb, a big thank you for this personal story. And of course a very big thank you for sharing your knowledge and being part of this forum.

    As for writing....I have an interesting live story, got myself a book deal, but had to get a ghost writer, to do all the planning and stuff around it, so I only have to talk, proofread. And still, it takes a lot of time [[and distraction of the stories to be told)

    Enjoy posting, enjoy chess and enjoy hanging around your family and friends.

    From the time I have read you posts you really seem to be a nice, wise and funny man.

    So thank you again

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    3,983
    Rep Power
    351
    Thanks for your excellent contributions as always Robb. I've always had a similar feeling about the Motorcity recordings but I think the four Monitors ones above are pretty good and I really like "Day By Day". In fact, the version on their Motorcity album doesn't have any music - it's acapella [[perhaps a little electronicalised [[my word lol)). It's really worth looking up [[YouTube Music for example). But I do enjoy both versions.

    Here's what Ian Levine posted to the video above -

    "One day in the studio in Detroit, in early 1990 as the Monitors were about to record "Going To A Go-Go", they did a vocal warm-up, which was an acapella version of the old jazz standard, "Day By Day". Their harmonies were so amazing that everyone in the building came down into the studio and gave them a standing ovation, so we asked them to do it over again and luckily had the video camera running too. So here it is!! Initially we released it as the full acapella track on their album for us, "Grazing In The Grass". Then years later we remixed it into a classic piece of Motorcity, for the album, "You Didn't Say A Word". The original line up of The Monitors at Motown consisted of Richard Street as lead singer, with Warren Harris, Maurice Fagin, Sandra Fagin and Hershel Hunter. When we got them reformed for Motorcity, Richard Street was with The Temptations and Sandra Fagin had passed away, but we succeeded in getting the other three back together. They brought in Smokey Robinson's nephew, Darryl Littlejohn, as lead singer and added a girl singer called Cathy, who was a Detroit policewoman. One of my treasured memories was getting Wanda Rogers of The Marvelettes back to performing live, at the Pontchartrain concert in Detroit, with the Monitors backing her up, all dressed in sharp white tuxedos."
    Last edited by mysterysinger; 08-28-2022 at 07:47 AM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    584
    Rep Power
    206
    Oh....bringing it back to subject, I love the Monitors. My favorite, among many others, is "My Love Grows Stronger", from their Motown Anthology 1963-1968

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    14,979
    Rep Power
    402
    Quote Originally Posted by mysterysinger View Post
    Thanks for your excellent contributions as always
    Here's what Ian Levine posted to the video above -

    "One day in the studio in Detroit, in early 1990 as the Monitors were about to record "Going To A Go-Go", they did a vocal warm-up, which was an acapella version of the old jazz standard, "Day By Day". Their harmonies were so amazing that everyone in the building came down into the studio and gave them a standing ovation, so we asked them to do it over again and luckily had the video camera running too. So here it is!! Initially we released it as the full acapella track on their album for us, "Grazing In The Grass". Then years later we remixed it into a classic piece of Motorcity, for the album, "You Didn't Say A Word". [[1) The original line up of The Monitors at Motown consisted of Richard Street as lead singer, with Warren Harris, Maurice Fagin, Sandra Fagin and Hershel Hunter. When we got them reformed for Motorcity, Richard Street was with The Temptations and Sandra Fagin had passed away, but we succeeded in getting the other three back together. [[2) They brought in Smokey Robinson's nephew, Darryl Littlejohn, as lead singer and added a girl singer called Cathy, who was a Detroit policewoman. "
    Name:  av-5.jpg
Views: 499
Size:  21.1 KB
    [[1) So, Ty Hunter's brother, Herschel, was one of The Majestics even after they came to Motown in mid 1963. Then, Herschel must have been the last Majestics member to have still been with the 2nd Distants / Majestics remnant merger group that recorded the original "Cry" and "Hello Love" with Don Davis and Thelma Coleman Gordy at Thelma Records earlier in 1963. Herschel was in The Majestics, too! He must have the record for having been a member of the most well-known Detroit R&B/Soul music groups! And, because of that, I had been amazed that I could find no evidence that he had ever been an employee of Motown, unlike almost every young Detroit music industry wannabe during the early 1960s. Now we know that he actually was!

    [[2) No wonder Darryl Littlejohn has the best "Smokey Robinson-mimicking falsetto singing voice, even better than Billy Griffin's! He had the advantage of close family genetic voice tone similarity.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    3,983
    Rep Power
    351
    Darryl Littlejohn does sound remarkably like Smokey. As evidenced on "Going To A Go Go" and "The Tears Of A Clown". Together these later Monitors sound wonderful.

    However I'd love the hear the B' side of that Buddah single - their version of the Chi Lites song "Have You Seen Her".
    Last edited by mysterysinger; 08-28-2022 at 03:54 PM.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    14,979
    Rep Power
    402
    Quote Originally Posted by mysterysinger View Post
    Darryl Littlejohn does sound remarkably like Smokey. As evidenced on "Going To A Go Go" and "The Tears Of A Clown". Together these later Monitors sound wonderful.

    However I'd love the hear the B' side of that Buddah single - their version of the Chi Lites song "Have You Seen Her".
    Name:  av-5.jpg
Views: 472
Size:  21.1 KB
    I haven't played that since the one time I played it just after buying the record. As I remember, it was a very pedestrian, unremarkable, blah version. It was listenable, and a decent job, but I never thought of playing it again. That is probably why no one has uploaded it onto The Internet.

    Unfortunately, I'm not with my records now, and couldn't play it anyway, because I need a new stylus on my turntable. Maybe someone else who has it can upload a sound file on this thread?
    Last edited by robb_k; 08-29-2022 at 07:18 PM.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    463
    Rep Power
    71
    Hey Robb
    Thought you might welcome this, these are the Florida Majestics see if you can spot anything Motown.

    Attachment 19862

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    14,979
    Rep Power
    402
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Jarvis View Post
    Hey Robb
    Thought you might welcome this, these are the Florida Majestics see if you can spot anything Motown.
    Attachment 19862
    Name:  av-5.jpg
Views: 433
Size:  21.1 KB
    That looks like the label design and font used by an L.A. pressing plant during the early 1960s. That the same one used by Jobete Music's L.A. office. I wonder IF that was Berry Gordy. And, I think I remember a Bishop writing credit or 2, or 3 on L.A. Jobete Music released records on small L.A. indie labels. But that Certainly CAN'T be Johnny Mitchell's or Richard Street's Detroit Majestics group! I've seen records on that label before, and thought it was an early '60s L.A. record. I may have even seen a Majestics record on it [[and thought it was The East L.A. Chicano group). But that Gordy credit would have caught my eye. Maybe it was Blues singer, Papa John Gordy? Can you upload a sound file of that song on this thread?

    I remember now. Blue Flame is a Rock-A-Billy style Garage Band instrumental from 1962. How can that be those NY-Miami Majestics??? The flip is also an instrumental. Now, I'm sure that I DID see that record, BECAUSE of the Gordy credit, I played it, and didn't care about the run-of-the-mill guitar instrumental, and that's why I haven't owned that record for 60+ years. I'm sure it's an early '60s L.A. Garage group. In fact, I own a record by than group that was originally also on Chanson Records. I bought it because it was on Chess, and I thought they might have leased a Johnny Mitchell's Detroit Majestics' record. It is titled "Oasis", and, of course, is also an instrumental. And I like it for its R&B-style Sax break.
    Last edited by robb_k; 08-29-2022 at 07:22 PM.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Posts
    115
    Rep Power
    59
    The Chanson label was from Tennessee then relocated to Toledo, OH in the mid to late-60s. "Blue Flame" is a cover/rendition of an old song, and the Gordy name credited on the label is a misspelling of "Corday". Hopefully I passed Graham's test. Lol.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Posts
    115
    Rep Power
    59
    https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...965-1941389858

    The Majestics/Monitors are one of my favorite groups. I really regret not bidding on this photo credited to the Majestics instead of the Monitors that was auctioned through eBay several years ago - never seen another one. The photo was dated March 4th, 1965 on the back.

    I've only seen label scans of the rare "Say You" promos credited to the Majestics, but maybe I'll own one someday.
    Last edited by nsoule; 08-29-2022 at 04:32 PM. Reason: Image removed

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    14,979
    Rep Power
    402
    Quote Originally Posted by nsoule View Post
    The Chanson label was from Tennessee then relocated to Toledo, OH in the mid to late-60s. "Blue Flame" is a cover/rendition of an old song, and the Gordy name credited on the label is a misspelling of "Corday". Hopefully I passed Graham's test. Lol.
    Attachment 19867
    Yes, "Blue Flame" was a Rock-A-Billy standard for many years. It was written by Joe Bishop and Leo Corday, and its biggest hit version was recorded by Jazz great, Jerry Mulligan. I wonder if Little Junior Parker's group, The Blue Flames were named after it? They had some great sax solo breaks in some of their songs.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    14,979
    Rep Power
    402
    Quote Originally Posted by nsoule View Post
    https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...965-1941389858

    The Majestics/Monitors are one of my favorite groups. I really regret not bidding on this photo credited to the Majestics instead of the Monitors that was auctioned through eBay several years ago - never seen another one. The photo was dated March 4th, 1965 on the back.

    I've only seen label scans of the rare "Say You" promos credited to the Majestics, but maybe I'll own one someday.
    Attachment 19867
    Yes, I first saw that photo at Motown. But, it has only Sandra, Maurice, Warren, and Richard on it. Too bad it wasn't made while Herschel Hunter was still with the group [[when they first arrived just after being signed to the label) [[as we learned from MysterySinger's post above).

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    463
    Rep Power
    71
    "Blue Flame" is also included in DFTMC as Mickey Stevenson from 1962 was responsible for another version of the track that was to be issued on an LP, no idea which one & who for? Blue Flame was published in 1942 written by the three original songwriters.

    Always looking out for the "Gordy" logo, when i spotted this 45 I was chuffed until I checked with BMI and found it was an obvious "Corday" misspelling, I still brought the copy just for a bit of fun. It was a few dollars, however the record is now a sort after "Popcorn" record across Europe.
    When I get the chance I'll dig the copy out & I'll send Nick the sound files, he can then pass them on to Robb, I don't have Robb's email [presuming he has it].

    Thanks Robb thought you might enjoy.
    Last edited by Graham Jarvis; 08-30-2022 at 02:34 AM.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    14,979
    Rep Power
    402
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Jarvis View Post
    "Blue Flame" is included in DFTMC as Mickey Stevenson from 1962 was responsible for another version of the track that was to be issued on an LP, no idea which one & who for?
    Blue Flame is originally from 1942 written by the three original songwriters.
    Name:  av-5.jpg
Views: 409
Size:  21.1 KB
    That's Got to be an error based on hearsay, which, in turn, was based on the coincidence of the writer's name, Corday, being misprinted as "Gordy" on The Majestics' [[Tennessee instrumental group) record in 1962, AND Motown having signed an [[albeit different) Majestics group in 1963. It's WAYYYYY too much of a coincidence. It seems to me that the odds of a research error, finding out that a record from 1962 has the name Gordy on it as a writer, AND Motown signed a group by the same name one year later. Errors get onto The Internet all the time. The DFTMC researcher could have found reference to a bogus date for the Chanson record, of 1963 [[instead of 1962), and thought, "they MUST both be the same song, and, thus, the same Majestics group. I just don't believe Motown leased a garage band record from Ohio in 1962, and then signed ANOTHER Majestics group the next year, and waited 2 whole years to change the second group's name.

    Was there a garage-style instrumental master tape found in The Motown Vault listed as by The Majestics? Here could be yet another coincidence. That big Jazz hit from 1942 [["Blue Flame"), was a classic, that a lot of Jazz musicians wanted to play. Maybe one of the Motown musicians [[like Frank Morelli, Johnny Griffith, Dave Hamilton, etc. wanted to record that song. Mickey Stevenson's ordered track could have been for such a situation, rather than Tennessee's Majestics' record being picked up by Motown [[the latter just doesn't make sense). It looks like a case of putting 2 and 3 together and getting 4. Assumptions were made many years after the fact, based on 3 different coincidences appearing to jibe, when they really didn't. It looks to me like so much of the inaccurate so-called "information" on The Internet, based on assumptions because of a lack of hard evidence existing, and what little evidence there is seems to match up in enough ways that it is very likely to be correct.

    But we know that it often turns out to be wrong. I won't believe it until I see hard evidence like hearing a master tape of The Majestics' guitar playing, with some backing tracks with Motown musicians playing. Or record lease documents dealing with Chanson Records, or a contract with Tennessee's Majestics, or acetates, or vinyl demos of one or both sides of The Majestics' Chanson record. The song, "Blue Flame" being recorded by Motown in 1962, and Motown's signing a group with the same name one year later, only needs the year on The Majestics instrumental song to be misstated by one year by the reference to it that The DFTMC researcher saw, or was given, for that assumption to end up seeming very logical and likely to be correct. That is especially true, IF only a scan of the "Blue Flame" side was seen, and it was before YouTube made a lot of obscure records' songs available to hear. That entry assumption may have even been made before The Internet was started, or, at least, before people could see a lot of material on websites.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    463
    Rep Power
    71
    Robb you have made me really think about the Majestics & "Blue Flame"

    We know that Berry Gordy was a Jazz fanatic, we also know same with Mickey Stevenson who was the Motown Jazz producer in 1962 & 63 when he recorded Paula Greer, The Johnny Griffiths Trio & Hank & Carol Diamond, both 45's & the albums. Dave Hamilton's 45 was by Clarence Paul. All of the Motown Jazz recordings were mostly in 1962/63 Paula Greer in 1963. [Earl Washington producer someone else D.Talti?]
    It was only in 2019 that Motown released all of the Jazz recordings from 1963/64 including Marvin's Jazz records [& all other songs of his] from 1963 & 64, 65 ,66 & 67.

    It does make you think is this not just a coincidence with Mickey Stevenson & Blue Flame from 1962 ? & Mr "Gordy"

    You will have to excuse me, as we are undertaking some work & a new bathroom. As most of my 45's are in cases they are stacked up in one of my outbuildings. I'll get to the 45 as soon as I can. You can have both sides.
    Last edited by Graham Jarvis; 08-30-2022 at 01:38 PM.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    14,979
    Rep Power
    402
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Jarvis View Post
    Robb you have made me really think about the Majestics & "Blue Flame"

    We know that Berry Gordy was a Jazz fanatic, we also know same with Mickey Stevenson who was the Motown Jazz producer in 1962 & 63 when he recorded Paula Greer, The Johnny Griffiths Trio & Hank & Carol Diamond, both 45's & the albums. Dave Hamilton's 45 was by Clarence Paul. All of the Motown Jazz recordings were mostly in 1962/63 Paula Greer in 1963. [Earl Washington producer someone else D.Talti?]
    It was only in 2019 that Motown released all of the Jazz recordings from 1963/64 including Marvin's Jazz records [& all other songs of his] from 1963 & 64, 65 ,66 & 67.

    It does make you think is this not just a coincidence with Mickey Stevenson & Blue Flame from 1962 ? & Mr "Gordy"

    You will have to excuse me, as we are undertaking some work & a new bathroom. As most of my 45's are in cases they are stacked up in one of my outbuildings. I'll get to the 45 as soon as I can. You can have both sides.
    Name:  av-5.jpg
Views: 381
Size:  21.1 KB
    Thanks! No hurry needed on my account.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    463
    Rep Power
    71
    Robb, whilst your waiting for "Blue Flame" the same Majestics not only issued on Chanson but also had one 45 on Chess records. From 45Cat they have the Chess label scans & have both sides of the record, the song Title: Oasis Pt 1 & 2, same format as other Chanson Instrumentals [both sides]. There is also: From the liner notes of the CD The WLS Rarities and Chicago Hits, Volume 5 [Radio Rarities WLS 61-3] [[source: personal research):

    You will be able to hear the guitarist and he is really impressive, also a great Sax player.
    Here is the link: https://www.45cat.com/record/nc18930...=671489#671489
    See what you think. I can't remember the "Blue Flame" Inst. been a long time.
    Last edited by Graham Jarvis; 08-31-2022 at 04:39 AM.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,749
    Rep Power
    211
    Wow, an old-style Soulful Detroit discussion, great to see [[and read)!!! I’ve no expertise to add anything, except to say I love Richard Street’s voice, whether in the Monitors or his lead spots with the Tempts. And I’ve seen him live with the Tempts, a real showman. He was mightily pissed off at getting the heave/ho by Otis

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    3,983
    Rep Power
    351
    Yes I love Richard's voice too and he was with the Tempts when I saw them in Manchester all those years ago. Back then I didn't know he'd been a Monitor nor a great deal of Motown history either.

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    14,979
    Rep Power
    402
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Jarvis View Post
    Robb, whilst your waiting for "Blue Flame" the same Majestics not only issued on Chanson but also had one 45 on Chess records. From 45Cat they have the Chess label scans & have both sides of the record, the song Title: Oasis Pt 1 & 2, same format as other Chanson Instrumentals [both sides]. There is also: From the liner notes of the CD The WLS Rarities and Chicago Hits, Volume 5 [Radio Rarities WLS 61-3] [[source: personal research):

    You will be able to hear the guitarist and he is really impressive, also a great Sax player.
    Here is the link: https://www.45cat.com/record/nc18930...=671489#671489
    See what you think. I can't remember the "Blue Flame" Inst. been a long time.
    Name:  av-5.jpg
Views: 343
Size:  21.1 KB
    Yes, I know about it. I've already mentioned above, that I bought that Chess record back in 1962, thinking it might be a lease pick-up of a Detroit Majestics' cut. Yes, I like the sax solo in that one. I've heard that their "Blue Flame" has an excellent sax solo, as well. "Oasis 1 & 2" were originally on Chanson, too. The band WAS an R&B instrumental group, rather than a Garage-style band, as I had remembered incorrectly. And, apparently, the well-known R&B and Jazz session musician, Monk Montgomery was in that band.
    Last edited by robb_k; 08-31-2022 at 07:57 PM.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    14,979
    Rep Power
    402
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Jarvis View Post
    Robb you have made me really think about the Majestics & "Blue Flame"

    We know that Berry Gordy was a Jazz fanatic, we also know same with Mickey Stevenson who was the Motown Jazz producer in 1962 & 63 when he recorded Paula Greer, The Johnny Griffiths Trio & Hank & Carol Diamond, both 45's & the albums. Dave Hamilton's 45 was by Clarence Paul. All of the Motown Jazz recordings were mostly in 1962/63 Paula Greer in 1963. [Earl Washington producer someone else D.Talti?]
    It was only in 2019 that Motown released all of the Jazz recordings from 1963/64 including Marvin's Jazz records [& all other songs of his] from 1963 & 64, 65 ,66 & 67.

    It does make you think is this not just a coincidence with Mickey Stevenson & Blue Flame from 1962 ? & Mr "Gordy"

    You will have to excuse me, as we are undertaking some work & a new bathroom. As most of my 45's are in cases they are stacked up in one of my outbuildings. I'll get to the 45 as soon as I can. You can have both sides.
    Attachment 19881
    Earl Washington operated out of Chicago, and, as far as I know, all his Motown recordings were recorded there by Chicago producers. Don Talty[[originally from Milwaukee) was a Chicago producer who owned Formal Records, and produced and managed Jan Bradley's career. Johnny Griffith played piano on a lot of Motown Soul and Jazz recordings. Dave Hamilton regularly played guitar on Motown Soul recordings as well as vibes on a couple Motown Soul, but mostly Jazz recordings.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    463
    Rep Power
    71
    Robb, I have found the Majestics 45, I have the photos both sides and both songs mp3. for you.
    Amazingly in the same box and right next to the Majestics copy is T.J.Fowler "Tastie- Part 1 & 2" also from 1962 on PUFF 1003. Take it you have the T.J. Fowler copy?
    Having played both its just amazing no vocals on both. Let me know about T.J.Fowler & I can send that over as well.
    I don't have your email if you can let me know how to get the sound files across to you. I'll probably put these up on youtube at some point if any interested.

    Attachment 19883
    Last edited by Graham Jarvis; 09-01-2022 at 01:00 PM.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    14,979
    Rep Power
    402
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Jarvis View Post
    Robb, I have found the Majestics 45, I have the photos both sides and both songs mp3. for you.
    Amazingly in the same box and right next to the Majestics copy is T.J.Fowler "Tastie- Part 1 & 2" also from 1962 on PUFF 1003. Take it you have the T.J. Fowler copy?
    Having played both its just amazing no vocals on both. Let me know about T.J.Fowler & I can send that over as well.
    I don't have your email if you can let me know how to get the sound files across to you. I'll probably put these up on youtube at some point if any interested.
    Attachment 19883
    T.J. Fowler was a Detroit bandleader in the 1940s and '60s, who was a Jazz/R&B/Soul music piano player, arranger, songwriter, record producer, and record company owner, chief producer and A&R man for Bow and Puff Records. As a late teenager, he studied at Detroit's Conservatory of Music. He started out playing piano in his father's pool hall. In 1947, he formed a band, which became popular locally, and soon backed up Paul "Hucklebuck Williams" in recording for Savoy Records. In 1948 TJ's band got their own contract with Savoy for several years. They played backing up such Blues greats as T-Bone Walker, Alberta Adams, and Varetta Dillard.

    Like most other reasonably known Detroiters in the Soul Music field, he worked with quite a bit with some of Motown's most well-known personalities [[notably, Motown's founders and earliest workers). He was one of Berry Gordy's advisors [[actually part of Tamla's staff) before and soon after Gordy started Tamla Records [[along with Maurice King, Joe Hunter, Beans Bowles, Carmen Murphy, and Robert West). He helped Berry set up his first recording studio in 1959. If I'm not mistaken, he was George Fowler's [[Motown's producer, songwriter, and manager of Motown's Divinity Records and producer of most of their other Gospel records' production) uncle. At least that's what I've heard.

    No, I actually never found that particular Puff record. He and his band had several releases on his own labels. I will send you a PM with my e-mail address.
    Last edited by robb_k; 09-01-2022 at 07:35 PM.

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    4,300
    Rep Power
    334
    I never heard of the Monitors until I bought the "16 Original Big Hits" that included their version of "Greetings," but have come to appreciate them thanks to the Anthology and the Ace/Kent EE of their Motown LP. But this thread is absolutely fascinating to read! I know if I haven't heard of some of these odd labels and groups, that they've got to be obscure, and it always fascinates me to learn the inner workings of how some of these groups evolved along with the infant indie labels.

    Keep it going, guys!

  36. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    463
    Rep Power
    71
    Here's a few others "PUFF Records" early Detroit: 1962-65.
    PUFF records owned by Martin, Synder, KajeskiI from 1962-65. They had seven PUFF 45 issues 1000-1006. They also owned M-S, Kool-Kat & Marquee.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RqzAXCKO0A
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De-U_iF1DMc
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9-hOZuiIIA
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUdyQOJ-cV4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smpxO0RL2-A

  37. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    14,979
    Rep Power
    402
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Jarvis View Post
    Here's a few others "PUFF Records" early Detroit: 1962-65.
    PUFF records owned by Martin, Synder, KajeskiI from 1962-65. They had seven PUFF 45 issues 1000-1006. They also owned M-S, Kool-Kat & Marquee.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RqzAXCKO0A
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De-U_iF1DMc
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9-hOZuiIIA
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUdyQOJ-cV4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smpxO0RL2-A
    Name:  av-5.jpg
Views: 252
Size:  21.1 KB
    Thanks for that, but I wonder if it is totally accurate. I've always read and heard that T.J. Fowler was the Chief Producer, Director of A&R, AND also a co-owner of Puff Records.
    And "Synder" should be "Snyder".

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    463
    Rep Power
    71
    Robb the Majestics record on Youtube


    Done same with the T.J.Fowler 45 "Tastie Pt1" amazing instrumental & the Hammond Organ, makes you think there is some association or just straightforward competition?

    Maybe we will never know.
    Last edited by Graham Jarvis; 09-04-2022 at 04:39 AM.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

[REMOVE ADS]

Ralph Terrana
MODERATOR

Welcome to Soulful Detroit! Kindly Consider Turning Off Your Ad BlockingX
Soulful Detroit is a free service that relies on revenue from ad display [regrettably] and donations. We notice that you are using an ad-blocking program that prevents us from earning revenue during your visit.
Ads are REMOVED for Members who donate to Soulful Detroit. [You must be logged in for ads to disappear]
DONATE HERE »
And have Ads removed.