Reflections story on Yahoo this morning....

[DWSheffer]

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...091943719.html

[sup_fan]

great article and overall very nice highlight of the group

Reflections [[the single) is just stunning. the only thing i would have changed would be to bring the backups slightly higher in the mix. the 3-part harmonies on the chorus are sensational and should be highlighted a little more. the mysterious haunting ooo's on the verses are perfect. sort of lingering the background

diana also delivers the most heartbreaking lead. it is sung so straight and unadorned, even for her. yet it's captivating. you truly feel her total distraught feeling.

the sound HDH tapping into is also just as incredible. it's a shame their departure prevented their being able to build this out into not only a full lp but also what would come next

[DWSheffer]

I agree, I thought it was a nicely detailed article on the song. I love listening to it turned way up, especially the very noticeable stereo effects in the beginning when it goes between the stereo speakers. Certainly one of my favorites!

[Sotosound]

The mono single and stereo album mixes are very different.

The sound effects in the intro of the single mix are low in volume in comparison to the rest of the track, so when the band comes in you really know it. Wham! Bam! Also, the electric piano is mixed well up front and to good effect. For me, this is one of the things that defined the track back in 1967 when I heard it on AM radio.

The panning effect at the start of the stereo mix is great but, for me, when the band comes in it's a massive low-volume anti-climax in comparison with the single mix. Also, that electric piano is panned and well back in the mix, which is a shame. Having said, that, the stereo mix allows more insight into the cellos [and violas?], which are quite busy in places.

The remix on #1s appears to try to emulate the single in some respects but, for me, sounds a little soft in comparison with either original mix.

Love the track, however. Gave me goosebumps back in 1967 when I was just 12.

[sup_fan]

The mono single and stereo album mixes are very different.

The sound effects in the intro of the single mix are low in volume in comparison to the rest of the track, so when the band comes in you really know it. Wham! Bam! Also, the electric piano is mixed well up front and to good effect. For me, this is one of the things that defined the track back in 1967 when I heard it on AM radio.

The panning effect at the start of the stereo mix is great but, for me, when the band comes in it's a massive low-volume anti-climax in comparison with the single mix. Also, that electric piano is panned and well back in the mix, which is a shame. Having said, that, the stereo mix allows more insight into the cellos [and violas?], which are quite busy in places.

The remix on #1s appears to try to emulate the single in some respects but, for me, sounds a little soft in comparison with either original mix.

Love the track, however. Gave me goosebumps back in 1967 when I was just 12.

i'm definitely gonna play them side by side to hear these differences!

the remix on the #1s has an error in it too. it accidentally cuts off the 4th beat of the measure just prior to the last choruses.

[SatansBlues]

Reflections was the first song I ever heard by the Supremes. I still remember where I was when it played on a local AM radio station in Michigan during the summer of 1980. I was 11. Listening to the song I was taken by the singer and wondered to myself who hurt the singer so bad that it made her cry. I called the radio station WKMI, and asked the DJ about the song. When he told me, I wrote the name of the group down so that t wouldn't forget, I had to know more about the song. That song, that moment started a 40 year love affair with The Supremes, Diana Ross and Motown. Reflections remains my favorite song by the group.

[sup_fan]

Reflections was the first song I ever heard by the Supremes. I still remember where I was when it played on a local AM radio station in Michigan during the summer of 1980. I was 11. Listening to the song I was taken by the singer and wondered to myself who hurt the singer so bad that it made her cry. I called the radio station WKMI, and asked the DJ about the song. When he told me, I wrote the name of the group down so that t wouldn't forget, I had to know more about the song. That song, that moment started a 40 year love affair with The Supremes, Diana Ross and Motown. Reflections remains my favorite song by the group.

what an amazing memory!!!

[Sotosound]

i'm definitely gonna play them side by side to hear these differences!

the remix on the #1s has an error in it too. it accidentally cuts off the 4th beat of the measure just prior to the last choruses.

My understanding is that this was deliberate. [The inner booklet talks about what was done for the remix.]

[Spreadinglove21]

Reflections was the first song I ever heard by the Supremes. I still remember where I was when it played on a local AM radio station in Michigan during the summer of 1980. I was 11. Listening to the song I was taken by the singer and wondered to myself who hurt the singer so bad that it made her cry. I called the radio station WKMI, and asked the DJ about the song. When he told me, I wrote the name of the group down so that t wouldn't forget, I had to know more about the song. That song, that moment started a 40 year love affair with The Supremes, Diana Ross and Motown. Reflections remains my favorite song by the group.

WKMI? Are you from Kalamazoo? That and WYYY were stations I listened to at that time. I was about your age. My parents listened to WKZO and WMUK, the NPR station.

[marybrewster]

The New Musical Express dated August 5 covered that evolution along with another piece of noteworthy news. “The Supremes have been signed for their dramatic acting debut,” wrote Tracy Thomas in Hollywood. “The trio will guest star on a segment of NBC-TV’s new Tarzan series next season. Diana, Mary and Florence are cast as three nuns and will sing during the hour show — hymns, not pop tunes.”

I guess I never realized TARZAN was intended for Flo.

[SatansBlues]

WKMI? Are you from Kalamazoo? That and WYYY were stations I listened to at that time. I was about your age. My parents listened to WKZO and WMUK, the NPR station.

Yes, I was born and grew up in Kalamazoo. WKMI exposed me to a lot of great pop and crossover music during the 70's and 80's. Small world right?

[SatansBlues]

what an amazing memory!!!

Thanks! It really speaks to the power of radio and music.

[sup_fan]

The New Musical Express dated August 5 covered that evolution along with another piece of noteworthy news. “The Supremes have been signed for their dramatic acting debut,” wrote Tracy Thomas in Hollywood. “The trio will guest star on a segment of NBC-TV’s new Tarzan series next season. Diana, Mary and Florence are cast as three nuns and will sing during the hour show — hymns, not pop tunes.”

I guess I never realized TARZAN was intended for Flo.

hadn't thought about it but not totally surprised if the contracts and paperwork were being drawn up while Flo was still part of the group. given the lead time necessary for this. they did the taping in Mexico in October

Cindy has a good quote [[i believe from Motown 40) about how it really did kill Berry to kick flo out. that he did care about the group. but that he wasn't going to jeopardize the group just to placate one person that was more and more hell bent on destroying things. the group had been SO successful appearing on tv shows that it was only natural to see how this could expand. bigger guest spots on shows, hosting Hollywood Palace, eventually their own tv specials.

[Circa 1824]

“Through the mirror of my mind ….” one of the greatest sung opening lines ever. Diana nailed it!!!!

[milven]

Does anyone remember the TV Series, CHINA BEACH? They used the song in the title sequence .

Reflections could have been the Supremes' 11th Number One hit if that damn Billie Joe didn't jump off the Tallahatchie Bridge

[sup_fan]

My understanding is that this was deliberate. [The inner booklet talks about what was done for the remix.]

I believe what they were doing was playing the song through the familiar ending but then rather than fade out they would tack on the alt original hard stop ending. That’s fine but they still cut off the fourth beat of the measure. That wasn’t intentional

[johnjeb]

Reflections was the first song I ever heard by the Supremes. I still remember where I was when it played on a local AM radio station in Michigan during the summer of 1980. I was 11. Listening to the song I was taken by the singer and wondered to myself who hurt the singer so bad that it made her cry. I called the radio station WKMI, and asked the DJ about the song. When he told me, I wrote the name of the group down so that t wouldn't forget, I had to know more about the song. That song, that moment started a 40 year love affair with The Supremes, Diana Ross and Motown. Reflections remains my favorite song by the group.

I love this story!

You say this song started your love affair with The Supremes and Diana Ross and Motown. It's interesting that it is the summer of 1980 when Diana's "Upside Down" was #1. Were you able to connect the dots, at that young age, and realize this was the same singer? Had you heard other Diana Ross songs before 1980 not realizing she sang with The Supremes?

I've always enjoyed reading the many posts from SD members about their discovery of The Supremes and other Motown artists when they were no longer hitmakers. Or those who were fans of Diana Ross in her post-Supremes 70s solo years and during the RCA years and were interested eneough to explore her back catalogue.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

Yes - some of us were just teenagers in 1980 when we fell in love with 'Upside Down' and then went back in time to discover all the other Supremes & Diana Ross classics.

Luckily there were the 'lips' album & the '20 golden greats' as easy picks [[at least for those of us outside the US) before going further back to discover even more great songs.

[jobucats]

Reflections was the first song I ever heard by the Supremes. I still remember where I was when it played on a local AM radio station in Michigan during the summer of 1980. I was 11. Listening to the song I was taken by the singer and wondered to myself who hurt the singer so bad that it made her cry. I called the radio station WKMI, and asked the DJ about the song. When he told me, I wrote the name of the group down so that t wouldn't forget, I had to know more about the song. That song, that moment started a 40 year love affair with The Supremes, Diana Ross and Motown. Reflections remains my favorite song by the group.

For me it was 1965, "Back in My Arms Again".

[Ollie9]

Though still in my teens in 1980, i first fell in love with the sound of Diana Ross upon hearing “Stop In The Name Of Love” aged about 11.
I can still remember the heady thrill of sifting through the vinyl, while gazing at pics of this mysterious black goddess before racing home to play my chosen lp.
My father once remarked “Do you realise i can hear you from the end of the garden” as i let rip while singing along to “Touch Me In The Morning” one afternoon. It really shouldn’t have been such a shock to them when i finally came out lol.

[sup_fan]

Though still in my teens in 1980, i first fell in love with the sound of Diana Ross upon hearing “Stop In The Name Of Love” aged about 11.
I can still remember the heady thrill of sifting through the vinyl, while gazing at pics of this mysterious black goddess before racing home to play my chosen lp.
My father once remarked “Do you realise i can hear you from the end of the garden” as i let rip while singing along to “Touch Me In The Morning” one afternoon. It really shouldn’t have been such a shock to them when i finally came out lol.

I have a similar or maybe even a gayer story lol

It was a weekend and I don’t know where my sister was. Cuz I was in her room and playing w her dollhouse. And on a Sony tape deck I was playing and singing along to Xanadu lol. Mom and dad had some friends over and I happened to eventually trot downstairs and was hanging out w them for a while. Prob outstaying my welcome like a kid would lol. Anyway dad suggested I go back upstairs and sing Xanadu some more lololol

[Ollie9]

I have a similar or maybe even a gayer story lol

It was a weekend and I don’t know where my sister was. Cuz I was in her room and playing w her dollhouse. And on a Sony tape deck I was playing and singing along to Xanadu lol. Mom and dad had some friends over and I happened to eventually trot downstairs and was hanging out w them for a while. Prob outstaying my welcome like a kid would lol. Anyway dad suggested I go back upstairs and sing Xanadu some more lololol

I trust you had also donned a pair your sista’s roller skates while having your own personal Livvy moment lol.
Love me some Xanadu, soundtrack as opposed to film. Many moons ago i worked for the first husband of ONJ’s sister Rhona.
I was truly saddened at news of her death, though we knew she was ill. One of life’s genuinely good people gone to soon.

[sup_fan]

I trust you had also donned a pair your sista’s roller skates while having your own personal Livvy moment lol.
Love me some Xanadu, soundtrack as opposed to film. Many moons ago i worked for the first husband of ONJ’s sister Rhona.
I was truly saddened at news of her death, though we knew she was ill. One of life’s genuinely good people gone to soon.

for christmas one year we each got a pair of boot-style skates. and we'd disco skate around the basement, grabbing onto the metal support poles to swing around real fast and change direction lol

yes it's a true shame about Olivia. the posts from celebs and fans alike all highlight what a truly warm loving and lovely person she was. so wonderful to know that she really did embody her screen personas and public image

[marybrewster]

I was introduced to the Supremes via Mary's interview on TWIN CITIES LIVE, when she was promoting DREAMGIRL.

In my early teens, I'd frequent thrift stores [[still do to this day), and finally happened upon NEW WAYS BUT LOVE STAYS. Now, I knew Diana, Mary, Flo, and Cindy, but looking at the pictures on the LP, I was completely confused on which girl was Diana, lol.

[marybrewster]

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...091943719.html

50+ years, we're still talking about REFLECTIONS. Further proof an Expanded Edition would be worth the effort.

[RanRan79]

50+ years, we're still talking about REFLECTIONS. Further proof an Expanded Edition would be worth the effort.

Fingers crossed that we'll get it within the next year. I was listening to "Stay In My Lonely Arms" yesterday and it dawned on me that with a Reflections expanded, we may finally find out why it is that the backing vocals are the Andantes until the very end when Mary and Cindy clearly take over. Or we might find that there's an alternate with just Mary and Cindy.

[RanRan79]

For me it was 1965, "Back in My Arms Again".

Cool photo Jobucats!

[sup_fan]

Fingers crossed that we'll get it within the next year. I was listening to "Stay In My Lonely Arms" yesterday and it dawned on me that with a Reflections expanded, we may finally find out why it is that the backing vocals are the Andantes until the very end when Mary and Cindy clearly take over. Or we might find that there's an alternate with just Mary and Cindy.

i've just wondered if, had this song been released, the fade would have started earlier and this wouldn't have been heard. like how they extended the fades on The #1 cd and things like that

[RanRan79]

i've just wondered if, had this song been released, the fade would have started earlier and this wouldn't have been heard. like how they extended the fades on The #1 cd and things like that

Good point. Could be that was the intention when the Andantes were added. I'm hoping there's an alternate with just Mary and Cindy. I like their sound on the song, brief as it is. Cindy sounds really good.

[thanxal]

Sooooo….
Sometimes, just sometimes, these little media nuggets are plants from a record company in advance of a ……
Could we be so lucky???

[reese]

i've just wondered if, had this song been released, the fade would have started earlier and this wouldn't have been heard. like how they extended the fades on The #1 cd and things like that

When STAY IN MY LONELY ARMS was released in 1987 on the compilation album MOTOWN'S BRIGHTEST STARS: NEVER BEFORE RELEASED MASTERS [[or a similar title), there was an extra verse and the fade started earlier.

That's why [for me, at least] it was such a surprise to buy the REFLECTIONS cd, and to have the track not fade when I was expecting, not to mention the sudden appearance of Mary and Cindy. So I'm assuming M & C recorded it first and the Andantes redid the background later.

[RanRan79]

Could we be so lucky???

We could be. Don't know about you, though.

[thanxal]

We could be. Don't know about you, though.

Oh Ran! Imma go write a “what if” thread just to distract you. LOL!

[RanRan79]

When STAY IN MY LONELY ARMS was released in 1987 on the compilation album MOTOWN'S BRIGHTEST STARS: NEVER BEFORE RELEASED MASTERS [[or a similar title), there was an extra verse and the fade started earlier.

That's why [for me, at least] it was such a surprise to buy the REFLECTIONS cd, and to have the track not fade when I was expecting, not to mention the sudden appearance of Mary and Cindy. So I'm assuming M & C recorded it first and the Andantes redid the background later.

Oh, I didn't know that! Interesting. Now I have the extra verse version to look forward to. I haven't been really hype about a potential Reflections EE as it's not one of my fav albums, and honestly I'm always more hype about Flo era material than DRATS era. But with there being some post Sing HDH recordings with Flo, I really do want the set to see the light of day. Of course I don't know how many other recordings are left with Flo during that late day. I'm sure "Going All the Way" will be on it, either an alternate vocal or alternate mix. I'm not quite clear if the Funk Bros version of "In and Out Of Love" received vocals or not, but I look forward to it either way. And then there's the possibility of a non Andantes mix of "In and Out of Love" with just Flo and Mary. Hopefully there's something else waiting in surprise. But aside from that, I'm getting excited about "Stay In My Lonely Arms". It might be interesting to see what kind of magic the fellas make with "Forever Came Today" also.

[RanRan79]

Oh Ran! Imma go write a “what if” thread just to distract you. LOL!

Well you've told me your evil plan, so now I know to avoid it.

[marybrewster]

Sooooo….
Sometimes, just sometimes, these little media nuggets are plants from a record company in advance of a ……
Could we be so lucky???

Let us pray!

[sup_fan]

here's my list of what material might be included. i'm just going off of the limited data i have on recording sessions. of course there could fascinating alt version, unreleased material we know nothing of. also i'm not listing this based on sessions being conducted specifically for a 'Reflections' album. we know that's not how they operated. i'm just gathering ALL sessions from the release of Sing HDH to the release of Reflections. Also i'm skipping the R&H materials since some sessions carried over into early 67


Love makes me do foolish things
all i know about you, the happening, we couldn't get along without you - guessing since these were on HDH EE they're done
reflections
in and out of love
forever came today
going all the way to true true love
heaven must have sent you
stay in my lonely arms
then
up up and away
ode to billie joe
what a friend we have in jesus
every time i feel the spirit
i'm gonna make it
treat me nice john henry
i can't make it alone
bah bah bah
am i asking too much
can't shake it loose
you'll never cherish a love so true
can't take my eyes off of you
a little breeze
when it's to the top
honey bee
the beginning of the end of love
if you should walk away
believe in me
nitty gritty

i've left off the Disney, Broadway/Hollywood and R&H sessions. also as stated, this list is incomplete so i'm not 100% sure if later songs like Nitty Gritty were completed prior to the release date of 3/25/68 for the album. just listing everything "in progress" in some way or form

[reese]

Oh, I didn't know that! Interesting. Now I have the extra verse version to look forward to. I haven't been really hype about a potential Reflections EE as it's not one of my fav albums, and honestly I'm always more hype about Flo era material than DRATS era. But with there being some post Sing HDH recordings with Flo, I really do want the set to see the light of day. Of course I don't know how many other recordings are left with Flo during that late day. I'm sure "Going All the Way" will be on it, either an alternate vocal or alternate mix. I'm not quite clear if the Funk Bros version of "In and Out Of Love" received vocals or not, but I look forward to it either way. And then there's the possibility of a non Andantes mix of "In and Out of Love" with just Flo and Mary. Hopefully there's something else waiting in surprise. But aside from that, I'm getting excited about "Stay In My Lonely Arms". It might be interesting to see what kind of magic the fellas make with "Forever Came Today" also.

As much as I love STAY..., I can understand why the extra verse was edited out. The song just repeats the same melody over and over again with no bridge or anything. It was great that they threw in the modulation near the end to give it an extra spark.

[RanRan79]

here's my list of what material might be included. i'm just going off of the limited data i have on recording sessions. of course there could fascinating alt version, unreleased material we know nothing of. also i'm not listing this based on sessions being conducted specifically for a 'Reflections' album. we know that's not how they operated. i'm just gathering ALL sessions from the release of Sing HDH to the release of Reflections. Also i'm skipping the R&H materials since some sessions carried over into early 67


Love makes me do foolish things
all i know about you, the happening, we couldn't get along without you - guessing since these were on HDH EE they're done
reflections
in and out of love
forever came today
going all the way to true true love
heaven must have sent you
stay in my lonely arms
then
up up and away
ode to billie joe
what a friend we have in jesus
every time i feel the spirit
i'm gonna make it
treat me nice john henry
i can't make it alone
bah bah bah
am i asking too much
can't shake it loose
you'll never cherish a love so true
can't take my eyes off of you
a little breeze
when it's to the top
honey bee
the beginning of the end of love
if you should walk away
believe in me
nitty gritty

i've left off the Disney, Broadway/Hollywood and R&H sessions. also as stated, this list is incomplete so i'm not 100% sure if later songs like Nitty Gritty were completed prior to the release date of 3/25/68 for the album. just listing everything "in progress" in some way or form

Yeah, there's quite a bit of stuff that can be included [[sans the stuff that made it onto later albums), but very little Flo era stuff, as far as we know. Of course Motown always has a surprise up it's sleeve. Just when we think we've heard it all, here comes something "recently" discovered.

[sup_fan]

Yeah, there's quite a bit of stuff that can be included [[sans the stuff that made it onto later albums), but very little Flo era stuff, as far as we know. Of course Motown always has a surprise up it's sleeve. Just when we think we've heard it all, here comes something "recently" discovered.

well if the rumors are true that Flo isn't on Reflections, that brings up the question as to what she was recording. we've been told In and Out and Going all the way. I think it was already stated in the Sing HDH timeline that the A's did backup on Love Makes Me. and then we're into Heaven Must Have and Stay In My, which are both Cindy tunes. so yeah, looks like Flo's involvement with this EE will be minimal at best, unless there are some surprises. or maybe earlier versions of things

also will be interesting to see what they're going to do with a lot of those tracks that have already been released - What a friend, every time, treat me nice, can't take my eyes. just having a "2022" stereo mix that's maybe a cleaned up a little doesn't strike me as hugely exciting. There is the opportunity to bring in some of the tracks that eventually appeared on LC or Sunshine. if the Reflections EE is struggling to be released, i would imagine it'll be harder for the later two.

i believe there is a Stereo vs Mono mix for Reflections. that'll fill up most of cd 1 [[assuming it's physical). would it maybe include one of Cindy's first live shows? the Hollywood Bowl show? or would they use this time to include Disney? what'll pad out Disc 2 is the real question we're all dying for lol

[RanRan79]

well if the rumors are true that Flo isn't on Reflections, that brings up the question as to what she was recording. we've been told In and Out and Going all the way. I think it was already stated in the Sing HDH timeline that the A's did backup on Love Makes Me. and then we're into Heaven Must Have and Stay In My, which are both Cindy tunes. so yeah, looks like Flo's involvement with this EE will be minimal at best, unless there are some surprises. or maybe earlier versions of things

also will be interesting to see what they're going to do with a lot of those tracks that have already been released - What a friend, every time, treat me nice, can't take my eyes. just having a "2022" stereo mix that's maybe a cleaned up a little doesn't strike me as hugely exciting. There is the opportunity to bring in some of the tracks that eventually appeared on LC or Sunshine. if the Reflections EE is struggling to be released, i would imagine it'll be harder for the later two.

i believe there is a Stereo vs Mono mix for Reflections. that'll fill up most of cd 1 [[assuming it's physical). would it maybe include one of Cindy's first live shows? the Hollywood Bowl show? or would they use this time to include Disney? what'll pad out Disc 2 is the real question we're all dying for lol

Yeah, as far as I know "Love Makes Me Do Foolish Things" is the Andantes, but I guess it's possible that it's another case of both the A's and the Supremes. Doubt it though.

Hopefully some Flo era surprises turn up. I think this set is the most likely release for the Disney project. I realize it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I actually really enjoy the Disney cuts. I also want a clean version of "Zip A Dee Do Dah", which I love, but my bootleg of the song sounds like trash. Yet still I can hear enough to really enjoy the song, but a professionally mixed version would obviously be better.

[marybrewster]

Was "My Guy" recorded around this time? I don't recall where that landed.

[sansradio]

Was "My Guy" recorded around this time? I don't recall where that landed.

According to dftmc.info, "My Guy" was recorded on October 26, 1966; most of the Disney tracks were recorded in '67.

[sup_fan]

yeah i just pulled the content from 67 onwards. forgot to look back as the data from 66 and see what might still be there, what wasn't included on HDH or AGG.

i agree that the Disney project is quite nice. it is what it is - disney tunes. but the ones we've received so far are quite well produced and well performed. it would be great if there was more insight and info in the booklet on this one. just sort of finish it up.

and of course there could be surprises, like missing verses or choruses to some of the tunes we're familiar with, totally different arrangements like we've gotten for Itching, Shame and some others. it would be amazing if some of the tunes finished by Deke and others were actually originally prepared by HDH and there are alt, incomplete versions from them. lots to speculate about!!

and we're getting to the point where either there are really hidden gems no one knows about or the well is running dry. there have been all sorts of fan bootlegs over the years with things on them. and from the DRATS era, almost all of the bootleg things i have [[aside from the tv specials and a few we've mentioned here) are accounted for. Either between the EE's, the pink box set, the anthologies, etc.

it could be that they'll include TOTT on here, since they were promoting In and Out and Reflections on that tour. who knows - maybe it'll be a later version of that concert package when they added Forever!!

[reese]

I think there might have been a live album recorded in Detroit shortly after Cindy joined the group. The live version of REFLECTIONS on the boxed set live bonus disc came from that, I believe. Perhaps that might be added to the expanded edition.