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  1. #1
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    Force Behind The Power and the US - wtf?

    while the FBTP was a big hit internationally, it pretty much bombed here in the US. while it is a fine adult r&b/contemp album, i'm not sure if it would have broken here in the US. Certainly Motown did nothing to help though

    I like When You Tell Me but i remember playing it for friends and they weren't very impressed. most just thought of it as sort of a sappy A/C ballad. you had Whitney and others doing much more powerful and impressive MEGA ballads.

    also i didn't think the title track would hit in the states either. the "message" lyrics were not very in-tune with what youth wanted to hear or dance to

    the single version of You're Gonna Love It was pretty hot thought

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    Force is one of my all time favorite Ross albums, but at the time it came out, her style of singing was very out of fashion in the US as the Whitney/Mariah approach to a ballad was very much in favor.

    But Motown kind of botched the roll out of the album in the US. I remember that the title song got a video a few months before the album came out and it got some play on BET. And I believe Diana appeared on Arsenio Hall to promote the song. And there was an emphasis that the song "Force Behind the Power" was the first time Stevie Wonder actually wrote AND produced a song for Diana Ross, which got some attention. But no album release until fall and then the single being promoted was When You Tell me That You Love Me. Very odd. If my memory about this is not right, I'm sure someone will correct me!

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    The initial single was to be Change of Heart. They should hv kept the original plan as that song is excellent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spreadinglove21 View Post
    Force is one of my all time favorite Ross albums, but at the time it came out, her style of singing was very out of fashion in the US as the Whitney/Mariah approach to a ballad was very much in favor.

    But Motown kind of botched the roll out of the album in the US. I remember that the title song got a video a few months before the album came out and it got some play on BET. And I believe Diana appeared on Arsenio Hall to promote the song. And there was an emphasis that the song "Force Behind the Power" was the first time Stevie Wonder actually wrote AND produced a song for Diana Ross, which got some attention. But no album release until fall and then the single being promoted was When You Tell me That You Love Me. Very odd. If my memory about this is not right, I'm sure someone will correct me!
    I believe your timeline is correct.

    Diana debuted the title track on the Arsenio Hall show. Not long after, she went on BET's VIDEO SOUL to world premiere the video of the title track. This led me to believe that it would be the first single. But a few months later, they release WHEN YOU TELL ME THAT YOU LOVE ME instead.

    Another problem was that Diana was promoting the album on tour and it wasn't even in the stores. For the diehards that isn't a problem. But for those casual fans who might have liked some of the new songs it was a problem because they couldn't go out and buy it. Of course, the same thing happened with her next album, TAKE ME HIGHER.

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    I saw Diana on this tour, and as mentioned above, there was no record or cassette to purchase the next day, so doing the songs in concert to promote the album was a moot point. I think by the time it did come out, I had long forgot about buying it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spreadinglove21 View Post
    Force is one of my all time favorite Ross albums, but at the time it came out, her style of singing was very out of fashion in the US as the Whitney/Mariah approach to a ballad was very much in favor.

    But Motown kind of botched the roll out of the album in the US. I remember that the title song got a video a few months before the album came out and it got some play on BET. And I believe Diana appeared on Arsenio Hall to promote the song. And there was an emphasis that the song "Force Behind the Power" was the first time Stevie Wonder actually wrote AND produced a song for Diana Ross, which got some attention. But no album release until fall and then the single being promoted was When You Tell me That You Love Me. Very odd. If my memory about this is not right, I'm sure someone will correct me!
    I think it’s a great album, but it was not for the US radio market. The only song that I thought had a chance, didn’t even chart as the lead single. She had been off the radio for six years, and her last hit, Missing You, hit the top 10 but it was not a particularly remarkable record that was going to sustain a career over a half a decade. She needed a slam dunk to get her back on the chart and nothing on this collection had a chance of doing that.

    The show was fantastic and I think we saw it six times maybe only five, but she was all over the Midwest for practically a month. She did a lot of shows for that tour, but I think the tour was over before the album came out. Mostly she did sheds, which are wonderful on summer nights. I remember for the first time seeing shows that were not full or close. Three or four were packed, but I distinctly remember two where the pavilion was sold out but the lawn was maybe 50%. They were very generous shows and she was in top form, always getting a couple digs in at Motown for not getting her out of them out. She did blame it on the sun in the audience, plus The songs from the album sounded so much better live. Getting the tour done with the coordination of the album release might’ve helped sales a great deal but it never would’ve got her a hit record with those songs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post

    The show was fantastic and I think we saw it six times maybe only five, but she was all over the Midwest for practically a month. She did a lot of shows for that tour, but I think the tour was over before the album came out. Mostly she did sheds, which are wonderful on summer nights. I remember for the first time seeing shows that were not full or close. Three or four were packed, but I distinctly remember two where the pavilion was sold out but the lawn was maybe 50%. They were very generous shows and she was in top form, always getting a couple digs in at Motown for not getting her out of them out. She did blame it on the sun in the audience, plus The songs from the album sounded so much better live. Getting the tour done with the coordination of the album release might’ve helped sales a great deal but it never would’ve got her a hit record with those songs.
    I saw the show at the Great Woods ampitheater in Mansfield, MA. She attracted 9,000 people, which is not bad at all. But she had attracted 15,000 just two years before to the same venue for the WORKIN' OVERTIME tour. Later in 1991, I believe Billboard published an article mentioning the tours that promoters lost the most money on that year and Diana's was amongst them. After that, whenever I've seen her it has been in a concert hall.

    That said, I thought the FBTP concert was fantastic. She gave a generous sample of songs from the new album: CHANGE OF HEART, WHEN YOU TELL ME THAT YOU LOVE ME, BLAME IT ON THE SUN, WAITING IN THE WINGS, YOU'RE GONNA LOVE IT, and the title track. I really liked most of them and felt she had a sure winner on her hands.

    Perhaps if it had been her return-to-Motown album [instead of WORKIN' OVERTIME], it might have done better. In any event, I think it is one of her best albums.
    Last edited by reese; 07-18-2022 at 10:00 AM.

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    i've heard about the delay with the album release - what was the cause of that? someone once said they thought it had to do with the artwork for the cover. really?!?! that seems truly odd lol

    i saw the show in Columbus, OH. from what i remember the audience was quite full - it was also one of those outdoor amphitheaters too - with the lawn and with seats. have an album called Dynamic Live which is essentially a concert version of her tour for this album. it has If We Hold On Together [[which was included in the US release), When You Tell Me, You're Gonna Love it, The Force Behind the Power, Blame it on the sun, Change of heart

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i've heard about the delay with the album release - what was the cause of that? someone once said they thought it had to do with the artwork for the cover. really?!?! that seems truly odd lol

    i saw the show in Columbus, OH. from what i remember the audience was quite full - it was also one of those outdoor amphitheaters too - with the lawn and with seats. have an album called Dynamic Live which is essentially a concert version of her tour for this album. it has If We Hold On Together [[which was included in the US release), When You Tell Me, You're Gonna Love it, The Force Behind the Power, Blame it on the sun, Change of heart
    When she was on Arsenio Hall's show, I think Diana mentioned that working with Stevie on the title track might have contributed to the delay as well, as he was also working on JUNGLE FEVER.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    When she was on Arsenio Hall's show, I think Diana mentioned that working with Stevie on the title track might have contributed to the delay as well, as he was also working on JUNGLE FEVER.
    I believe the delay was due to a distribution and leadership change with Motown. The same thing happened as Take Me Higher was being prepared for release. With Force, it was quite confusing after that Arsenio Hall appearance in May.

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    i think it should have been promoted as an adult contemporary album or songbook
    beautiful songs n vocals
    lost gem
    great tour

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    I saw the show at the Great Woods ampitheater in Mansfield, MA. She attracted 9,000 people, which is not bad at all. But she had attracted 15,000 just two years before to the same venue for the WORKIN' OVERTIME tour. Later in 1991, I believe Billboard published an article mentioning the tours that promoters lost the most money on that year and Diana's was amongst them. After that, whenever I've seen her it has been in a concert hall.

    Just like RTL. if it had been sold as a lesser event, or booked into smaller venues, it would’ve been considered a big success. But they paid half a million upfront plus additional talent and ticketing fees so they had to sell a lot of tickets just to breakeven. If the guarantee was 200,000, they would’ve made money at every stop. It’s just how it is booked.

    That said, I thought the FBTP concert was fantastic. She gave a generous sample of songs from the new album: CHANGE OF HEART, WHEN YOU TELL ME THAT YOU LOVE ME, BLAME IT ON THE SUN, WAITING IN THE WINGS, YOU'RE GONNA LOVE IT, and the title track. I really liked most of them and felt she had a sure winner on her hands.

    Perhaps if it had been her return-to-Motown album [instead of WORKIN' OVERTIME], it might have done better. In any event, I think it is one of her best albums.
    I remember that article very well, because I didn’t see anything that look like money losing to me but that was before I learned how concerts are booked. I believe Whitney Houston’s tour was the biggest money loser of the year. I was shocked. A full House will always make money, half a house could make a lot of money or lose money it just depends on how it was booked. Promoters would have paid a lot for a Ross/Houston because her track record had warranted that. Workin’ overtime, as we all know, did a lot of damage to her fan base. So did that tour. The only changes in the show that year were the addition of the new songs and removal of Summertime, More and More, Muscles I can’t think of any more, but those songs got replaced with songs from the new album and a lot of the fans that didn’t like the record didn’t like hearing them live. Plus, she was still shoving Dirty Looks down our throats. I think that contributed to some of the attendance drop off.

    I really loved this show. She was fun and relaxed and really enjoying the music.
    Last edited by TheMotownManiac; 07-18-2022 at 06:26 PM.

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    I missed out on FBTP shows and really regret it after reading the above comments.

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    I was recently reading an online review of the FBTP concert from the Los Angeles Times. It’s dated September 28th 1991, and is available under the heading ‘Shallow Evening With Diana Ross’.
    Its a little harsh, but bemoans her lack of emotional commitment to the songs, calling it champagne soul. It ponders the question how different her concerts might be were they less of a fashion show and more dedicated to the actual art of singing.
    There was a definite shift in focus from 76 onwards where she morphed into all round entertainer.
    The article raises some interesting points, if perhaps being a little overly critical.

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    Hi Ollie, interesting, can you post a link?

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    No, that’s not the one SL. It’s a lengthy article that’s headed ‘Shallow Evening With Diana Ross’. I would post the link myself, but alas am not sure how. It begins...

    “Here’s a question that nags while watching Diana Ross perform. How good could she be if she had long ago shucked the cosmic-glamourpuss jive and dedicated herself to the craft of singing. One guess, very good judging from the true emotion and genuine style that occasionally fizz to the surface of her “champagne soul”.
    It’s a good article that raises some interesting points as to the direction her career eventually took.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    No, that’s not the one SL. It’s a lengthy article that’s headed ‘Shallow Evening With Diana Ross’. I would post the link myself, but alas am not sure how. It begins...

    “Here’s a question that nags while watching Diana Ross perform. How good could she be if she had long ago shucked the cosmic-glamourpuss jive and dedicated herself to the craft of singing. One guess, very good judging from the true emotion and genuine style that occasionally fizz to the surface of her “champagne soul”.
    It’s a good article that raises some interesting points as to the direction her career eventually took.
    Found it: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...748-story.html

    FYI: to copy a link, click on the url, highlight it, then press CTRL-C. Then come here, make a post and then press CTRL-V to paste.

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    Interesting article. While I wish Miss Ross would tell her background singers to stop wailing and showboating these days [[though they seemed better behaved in the recent tour clips), the article does make some good points. A Ross concert is primarily about a fluffy night out of escapist entertainment. It's fun, but not a whole lot of substance. And the thing is, she can deliver the substance when she wants to. "Don't Explain" was my favorite moment of the last couple of Ross concerts I attended as she sang serious for that, going for depth. And I hated that the next song would be Why Do Fools, as if saying, OK,enough substance, back to fluff.

    I always wished she had toured the Stolen Moments show rather than do it as a one off. I'm glad it was recorded for posterity as it showed how good she can be when she sings serious. But I've a feeling a good chunk of her fanbase doesn't want too much of that side of Diana Ross and wants "DIANA!" the glamorous goddess of fluffy escapism entertainment. She does that quite well too, of course, and I'm seeing her at Radio City this September. But hopefully she will give us one "Stolen Moments" show type moment to show her depth as an artist and interpreter of song.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spreadinglove21 View Post
    Found it: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...748-story.html

    FYI: to copy a link, click on the url, highlight it, then press CTRL-C. Then come here, make a post and then press CTRL-V to paste.
    Thats kind SL. Next time I will have a go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spreadinglove21 View Post
    Interesting article. While I wish Miss Ross would tell her background singers to stop wailing and showboating these days [[though they seemed better behaved in the recent tour clips), the article does make some good points. A Ross concert is primarily about a fluffy night out of escapist entertainment. It's fun, but not a whole lot of substance. And the thing is, she can deliver the substance when she wants to. "Don't Explain" was my favorite moment of the last couple of Ross concerts I attended as she sang serious for that, going for depth. And I hated that the next song would be Why Do Fools, as if saying, OK,enough substance, back to fluff.

    I always wished she had toured the Stolen Moments show rather than do it as a one off. I'm glad it was recorded for posterity as it showed how good she can be when she sings serious. But I've a feeling a good chunk of her fanbase doesn't want too much of that side of Diana Ross and wants "DIANA!" the glamorous goddess of fluffy escapism entertainment. She does that quite well too, of course, and I'm seeing her at Radio City this September. But hopefully she will give us one "Stolen Moments" show type moment to show her depth as an artist and interpreter of song.
    There was a definite shift in focus starting in 76 with An Evening With Diana Ross. One has to assume this was Diana’s idea as BG had very little to do with that show.
    The Lady Sings The Blues segment of her concerts always provided an opportunity to demonstrate her vocal chops and dig a little deeper. Sadly those deeper moments became less as the years went by, perhaps a result of the mostly lightweight material she was recording while at rca..
    I agree in that the majority of fans are most likely as interested in the costumes and glamour as much as the singing. It’s a huge part of her persona and what she is renowned for.
    I think for many years now she has had the kind of following that would far sooner hear “WDFFIL” as opposed to “Brown Baby” or one of her deeper cuts. A little late to change now i guess.

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