Interesting pic of Lynda, Scherrie, Syreeta and Jean

[lakeside]

[[L-R) Lynda Laurence, Scherrie Payne, Syreeta Wright & Jean Terrell. Late 1980's @1988/1989 - The Former Ladies of The Supremes pose with Syreeta Wright during a Motorcity Records photo-shoot. #FormerLadiesOfTheSupremes #KeepTheMusicPlaying #FLOS36 - Celebrating 36 years of "SUPREME EXCELLENCE!!" #FLOSFRIDAY - on Friday's we celebrate the 36 year history and legacy of The Former Ladies of The Supremes, we call it "FLOS FRIDAY." Today we are looking back to the late 1980's @1988/1989 with Scherrie Payne, Lynda Laurence & Jean Terrell Enjoy this photo form our F.L.O.S. archives! The Former Ladies of THE SUPREMES [[Scherrie Payne, Lynda Laurence & Jean Terrell) pose with fellow Motown artist Syreeta Wright during a Motorcity Records Photo-shoot @1988/1989. #FormerLadiesOfTheSupremes #flos36 #KeepTheMusicPlaying#ScherriePayne #LyndaLaurence formerly of #TheSupremes #FLOS #formerSupremes TRIVIA: Did you know that Lynda Laurence, Syreeta Wright and Vanetta Fields are the backing vocalists on Stevie Wonder's 1970 hit "SIGNED, SEALED, DELIVERED" ? 0 Comments #FLOSFRIDAY - CELEBRATING 36 YEARS OF "SUPREME EXCELLENCE" WITH THE FORMER LADIES OF THE SUPREMES. LOOKING BACK TO 2014 WITH SCHERRIE, LYNDA & JOYCE 6/24/2022 0 COMMENTS #FLOSFRIDAY - on Friday's we celebrate the 36 year history and legacy of The Former Ladies of The Supremes, we call it "FLOS FRIDAY." Today we are looking back to 2014 with Scherrie Payne, Lynda Laurence & Joyce Vincent. Scherrie Payne & Lynda Laurence, Former Ladies of THE SUPREMES with Joyce Vincent, backstage in Austria @2014. Posing In their dressing room minutes before hitting the stage. The Ladies were special guest performers at the "Creos Awards" in Austria. Enjoy the clip below from our F.L.O.S. archives. #FormerLadiesOfTheSupremes #flos36 #KeepTheMusicPlaying#ScherriePayne #LyndaLaurence formerly of #TheSupremes #FLOS #formerSupremes 0 Comments #THROWBACKTHURSDAY - LOOKING BACK WITH JOYCE VINCENT. "TONY ORLANDO & DAWN" REUNION TOUR @1989 6/23/2022 0 COMMENTS Tony Orlando & Dawn - @1989 "Together Again" reunion tour. [[L-R) Tony Orlando, Joyce Vincent-Wilson & Telma Hopkins. 0 Comments #WAYBACKWEDNESDAY - SUSAYE GREENE 6/22/2022 0 COMMENTS #WayBackWednesday - Looking back with Susaye Greene. 0 Comments HAPPY FATHER'S DAY 2022 6/19/2022 0 COMMENTS Happy Father's Day! Love, Scherrie, Susaye & Joyce 0 Comments #FLOSFRIDAY - CELEBRATING 36 YEARS OF "SUPREME EXCELLENCE" WITH THE FORMER LADIES OF THE SUPREMES. SCHERRIE, LYNDA & FREDDI 6/17/2022 0 COMMENTS #FLOSFRIDAY - On Friday's we look back at the 36 year history and legacy of The Former Ladies of The Supremes, we call it #FLOSFRIDAY! Today we are looking back to @1999 when The Former Ladies of The Supremes' Scherrie Payne & Lynda Laurence were joined by Freddi Poole. The Ladies are posing backstage with their flowers, after their performance. ​ This lineup sang together 1996-2009 Enjoy these rare photos from our FLOS archives. #KeepTheMusicPlaying#FormerLadiesOfTheSupremes#FLOS36 0 Comments <<Previous

[RanRan79]

Jean was annoyed because right before the photo was taken, she was actually pulling Syreeta aside to say "So you really thought your plan to convince Berry to replace me with you was going to work?"

[lakeside]

Jean was annoyed because right before the photo was taken, she was actually pulling Syreeta aside to say "So you really thought your plan to convince Berry to replace me with you was going to work?"

Yea, Jean does look rather smug. LOL! Although she may be thinking...wish she'd gotten the damn job.

[RanRan79]

Yea, Jean does look rather smug. LOL! Although she may be thinking...wish she'd gotten the damn job.

This gave me a good laugh Lake!! Thanks for that!!

[captainjames]

Honestly, I think Berry was too focus on Diana at this point and was unable to make the best decision. He should have left his second and third in command to make the right decision for Diana's replacement. He should have hired Ernie and Jean together as an act because they were magical together. Ready or semi ready was the time for Mary to branch out. After seeing Mary on the Hollywood Palace singing lead and then back in the background was confusing for some fans like me. I grew to accept and love Jean but still the questions were flying.

[sup_fan]

for whatever reason, other than given her a token song in the show, motown had 0 interest in mary wilson as a vocalist. I don't know if this was because they understood her voice to be more suited to other genres, if she pissed people off, if she didn't want to work hard, if she was this or that.

i know others have said motown was trying to establish jean as the lead. that's fine. i don't think adding If You Let Me to the Right On album would have distracted from that. it's a great song, mary does a very strong lead on it, it would have helped revitalize the group's image to have it more of a group vs a lead and 2 backups. but it wasn't to be

with jean, I do think they made a great choice in vocalist but missed the mark with entertainer and captivating personality. with the new group and new sound, the girls made a strong come back in 1970. but then things seemed to peter out

[blackguy69]

I doubt the reason that she didn’t want to work hard seeing she had to beg just to get one lead.

[jim aka jtigre99]

for whatever reason, other than given her a token song in the show, motown had 0 interest in mary wilson as a vocalist. I don't know if this was because they understood her voice to be more suited to other genres, if she pissed people off, if she didn't want to work hard, if she was this or that.

i know others have said motown was trying to establish jean as the lead. that's fine. i don't think adding If You Let Me to the Right On album would have distracted from that. it's a great song, mary does a very strong lead on it, it would have helped revitalize the group's image to have it more of a group vs a lead and 2 backups. but it wasn't to be

with jean, I do think they made a great choice in vocalist but missed the mark with entertainer and captivating personality. with the new group and new sound, the girls made a strong come back in 1970. but then things seemed to peter out

I don't understand Motown's lack of interest in Mary. She was certainly beautiful and talented. Mary's voice was in some ways like Mary Wells and they had success with her and Smokey also wrote some songs that Mary had a duet with Jean that hit the top 40 so they could do something with her easily. Yes, she excelled on ballads and jazz and standards and did not have the high fluty vocals like Ross but their first #1 almost went to Mary and her backing vocals were also a bit of a draw on Where Did Our Love Go. Mary experienced a huge lack of confidence when Flo was ousted because she felt she had the best voice and all of the attention starting to fixate on Diana along with Berry telling her she couldn't sing. Jean was a strong voice but I agree she lacked the personality and was not a strong entertainer, Mary and Cindy would catch your eye when Jean performed with them. In 1970, they had the top 10 hits and were on television a lot. In 1971, Nathan Jones and Touch failed to follow up on that and they seemed to be touring more than on TV and when Cindy left it seemed that they started to lose interest. I would say Mary was a hard worker, even Diana said so in her book but she wasn't so career focused like Diana was. I don't know but Mary's public personae was being happy and positive, not sure how her work personae was or if she didn't get along with the Motown brass. If she didn't, leaving Motown earlier would have been better for her but many labels wondered if she could sing especially since she had to fight so hard just to sing one song in concert. I also do wonder if Jean was that easy to get along with. I wonder what her conversation with Syreeta was, especially from the look she has on her face.

[lakeside]

I agree. Jean had the voice, but not the personality nor showmanship. I always thought
Syreeta had a voice that would have worked for the Supremes, but haven't seen enough
clips to know if she would stand out personality-wise? Seeing Jean in concert with Mary and Cindy, her voice blew me away. Her stage personality left me underwhelmed.

[luke]

Berry’s negative comment to Mary about her voice was devastating to her. Did Jean get any of Mrs Powell’s classes?

[TheMotownManiac]

I don't understand Motown's lack of interest in Mary. She was certainly beautiful and talented. Mary's voice was in some ways like Mary Wells and they had success with her and Smokey also wrote some songs that Mary had a duet with Jean that hit the top 40 so they could do something with her easily. Yes, she excelled on ballads and jazz and standards and did not have the high fluty vocals like Ross but their first #1 almost went to Mary and her backing vocals were also a bit of a draw on Where Did Our Love Go. Mary experienced a huge lack of confidence when Flo was ousted because she felt she had the best voice and all of the attention starting to fixate on Diana along with Berry telling her she couldn't sing. Jean was a strong voice but I agree she lacked the personality and was not a strong entertainer, Mary and Cindy would catch your eye when Jean performed with them. In 1970, they had the top 10 hits and were on television a lot. In 1971, Nathan Jones and Touch failed to follow up on that and they seemed to be touring more than on TV and when Cindy left it seemed that they started to lose interest. I would say Mary was a hard worker, even Diana said so in her book but she wasn't so career focused like Diana was. I don't know but Mary's public personae was being happy and positive, not sure how her work personae was or if she didn't get along with the Motown brass. If she didn't, leaving Motown earlier would have been better for her but many labels wondered if she could sing especially since she had to fight so hard just to sing one song in concert. I also do wonder if Jean was that easy to get along with. I wonder what her conversation with Syreeta was, especially from the look she has on her face.

I think the same reason no other labels have any interest in Mary when she left the group, she did not have a commercial voice and I don’t think anybody was going to invest a bunch of time and money developing a voice or a singer that they didn’t have any confidence in. The pop music industry is gigantic, but it’s also a little Peyton place. Everyone knows everyone else’s business. Labels have scouts watching acts all the time looking for someone to steal or something to borrow from or any little bit of something to give them a leg up that they might make a nickel on. Certainly, the labels were aware of Mary’s talent and they just weren’t interested. When Mary left the Supremes no one from Motown wanted to work with her. Look at all the producers that worked with her that were no longer at Motown, why didn’t they write and produce for her? She wasn’t that viable and she acted silly on television. I thought she did a great job on her solos with people and can’t take my eyes off of you, but there’s 1 million singers they can do a good job on those songs. People are looking for a star. People are looking for that something extra that draws crowds. No one of importance saw that and Mary and this wasn’t just a Motown it was everywhere. I think the people here, myself included, are more keenly aware of what Mary had to offer, but we had a vested interest in the group and in Mary. John Q public, and the industry as a whole, did not share that interest. After she left the group, she learned that there were no open doors and wanted to come back to the group but we all know how that worked out. Did Motown make us mistake with Mary and Florence? In hindsight, perhaps yes. But all they were doing was changing American culture, a racing the pop music color line and literally creating musical history…… Surely they could’ve stopped all of that for a little while and developed to singers that they had no confidence in.

I do not believe that Berry Gordy ever told mary wilson that she could not sing. I do believe that he, and others at Motown, told her she did not have the voice for Pop radio. Not the voice they were looking for, and the more she challenged them on it, perhaps the stronger they pushed back. They owed her nothing, and we’re not interested. Even in the 80s reboot, they said no to Mary singing lead. If Gordy felt that Mary really could not sing, there is no way he would’ve given her the last half of people or any solo in the show. You notice Cindy didn’t have a solo, she didn’t even have a single line in TCB. I don’t buy that whole story, everyone feels sorry for a victim. When she became available somebody snapped her up, it might look different.

I think Jean will always be controversial because she had a great voice, and a style, but it wasn’t exactly as Cinderella fit for the group. The few times I was around Jean, she was nowhere near as accessible and friendly to the groupies, that’s so what - you know that’s not her job. Mary never met a fan she didn’t like and it paid off big time for her. The time I was around Jean, there was no warmth between she and Mary. I didn’t see any nastiness either, but they both had relationships with the third supreme that they did not have with each other and that was apparent. Cindy told me they both had a desire to be the alpha dog, and both had reasons why they should be. The group meant everything to Mary, I don’t think it meant much to Gene, and because of that, she could behave in a manner that was more like, “ don’t like it? Fuck you, I’m out of here! “I’m sure she never said those words but, that’s what I’ve been led to believe and kind of witnessed. I thought she was good on stage in the shows on some songs, but as good as she was she didn’t come across with a sledgehammer like her predecessor. I just didn’t happen, and I think it was wrong for people to expect her to be able to. Diana ross is spell over an audience is iconic comic and kind of inexplicable. and I feel sorry for Jean, because you know 50 some years later, there wasn’t someone to take her place. The group had to be reworked so that hopefully the new lead singer could put their best foot forward in a show with material that they felt very comfortable with. Jean was set up for failure because she was being asked to replace a one of a kind, and that almost never ever works. I think she could’ve been a huge star, it just wasn’t meant to be.

[Boogiedown]

Nice post ^^

[jim aka jtigre99]

So, Mary had a bubbly personality on television that was seen as "silly", okay. Mary had a beautiful contralto voice that could have easily been used for ballads. I find it very warm and distinctive. She was a beautiful woman with a great deal of talent. The thing is that because Diana Ross was so talented and the focal point of the Supremes that the industry very easily looked at Mary, Flo, Cindy, Jean et al as also rans that were simply not Miss Ross. I don't know if Mary was difficult or hard to work with in the studio, but I find it interesting that NO Motown producer wanted to work with her at all. That I don't understand. I think Jean only looked at the Supremes as "just a job" whereas Mary looked at it as a commitment because she had been one of the ones who started it. I can understand why Mary felt she should be alpha then if Jean only looked at the entire thing as just a job. Granted, she was singing lead but if she didn't want to do the extra work and put in the extra effort to the Supremes, why listen to her? As for Mary, I honestly don't see why another label didn't take a chance on her unless behind the scenes she was more of a problem than we realize or were led to believe. I am sure by the time she left the group, the history of Pedro as the manager didn't set too well with Motown or a new label that might know that history.

[Boogiedown]

It probably
didnt help Mary’s quest that Florence’ solo venture drew no excitement . Former supreme tries to fly solo. Already tried that . Also if Mary was a hidden gem the question would be, why hadn’t Motown tapped into her by this time ? There she is, present and available, ready to roll.
Maniac, You mentioned how aware the industry was of other peoples business, surely other labels noticed how the supremes fell flat under the leadership of jimmy webb.
I wonder if as an outsider, he unleashed thoughts of his own about what he encountered with the group.

[jim aka jtigre99]

I had heard that Jimmy Webb stated he encountered Jean and she provided some difficulties during recording. That didn't stop A&M from signing Jean. Yet, Jean also refused to tour and promote her LP. I think Jean may have been far more difficult than Mary was and that she thought I have an exceptional voice and the work speaks for itself that I really don't need to do anything else. But that is not how that works.

[Boogiedown]

Ahh,
then he may have said of Jean, difficult yes, but worth it , that lady can SING.

as for the rest …….aren’t they all but absent on his production ….. others are singing where they should be ?

[jim aka jtigre99]

Jean can sing but Mary and Lynda can definitely sing quite well as well. Mary did a nice job on I Keep It Hid. His use of other singers added to the perception that it didn't really come across as a Supremes record. Jean can sing but her work on Jimmy Webb was shrill and grating quite a number of times. It is no wonder Motown didn't know what to do with the album.

[Boogiedown]

As much the fault of Webbs as anybody’s??
did he go onto have any successes after his shot at The Supremes ?

[RanRan79]

Berry’s negative comment to Mary about her voice was devastating to her. Did Jean get any of Mrs Powell’s classes?

I don't believe those Artist Development classes were a thing by the time of Jean. I could be wrong though.

[RanRan79]

So, Mary had a bubbly personality on television that was seen as "silly", okay. Mary had a beautiful contralto voice that could have easily been used for ballads. I find it very warm and distinctive. She was a beautiful woman with a great deal of talent. The thing is that because Diana Ross was so talented and the focal point of the Supremes that the industry very easily looked at Mary, Flo, Cindy, Jean et al as also rans that were simply not Miss Ross. I don't know if Mary was difficult or hard to work with in the studio, but I find it interesting that NO Motown producer wanted to work with her at all. That I don't understand. I think Jean only looked at the Supremes as "just a job" whereas Mary looked at it as a commitment because she had been one of the ones who started it. I can understand why Mary felt she should be alpha then if Jean only looked at the entire thing as just a job. Granted, she was singing lead but if she didn't want to do the extra work and put in the extra effort to the Supremes, why listen to her? As for Mary, I honestly don't see why another label didn't take a chance on her unless behind the scenes she was more of a problem than we realize or were led to believe. I am sure by the time she left the group, the history of Pedro as the manager didn't set too well with Motown or a new label that might know that history.

Mary definitely came across as silly to me vs bubbly, but there was nothing wrong with that. She was being herself and no record company was going to use her silly interviews as a reason not to sign her.

The music business is all about luck and everything lining up right, with just a little bit of "go get it" mixed in. There was a lot working against Mary solo, but probably none more than the fact that she didn't have her business together. The truth is that everybody and their mama had a freaking record deal in the 1980s, some with talent and some without. The idea that every record label in the world had the opportunity and then dismissed the idea of Mary Wilson will forever be preposterous to me. I believe Mary didn't knock on enough doors. Hell, she got a deal in the early 90s. Why would a company be cool with Mary Wilson 1990 but not Mary Wilson 1985 if her voice and age were such a problem? There were thousands of record labels in the US alone. I suspect Mary knocked on a handful of doors and quit.

[RanRan79]

Berry’s negative comment to Mary about her voice was devastating to her.

Yeah. Mary says that Berry was joking, but then maybe she made it up since she's a big liar who can't be believed, per the ad nauseum comments constantly being made about her in this forum since she passed. Anyway, sarcasm aside, if Mary already had insecurities about her voice, especially if she considered herself the third best singer in the group, Berry's joke would hit a different way. Gordy could've never said that to Flo and she second guess herself. Gordy has gone on record to say all the Supremes could sing. I think he even went so far as to point out that if a Supreme couldn't sing, she wouldn't be in the group. So I'm sure he didn't believe Mary didn't have talent. Gordy was heavily involved in the Supremes' shows and if he thought Mary was an incapable vocalist, she would not have had leads on "Enjoy Yourself" or "People", or leads that made it onto A Go Go and R&H. So in all likelihood it's as Mary said, he was joking. But jokes hurt people's feelings all the time, intentionally or not. It's sad that Mary internalized that. She isn't always my cup of tea as a vocalist, but she was just as talented as Florence and Diana. She didn't sound like them and she couldn't do what they did. But then they didn't sound like her and couldn't do what she did either. God gave Mary what He wanted her to have and it was a beautiful gift that I'm glad we all got to experience.

[jim aka jtigre99]

I thought Mary was with Motorcity Records in the 1980's and released 2 singles Don't Get Mad Get Even and Ooh Child. In the 80's she shopped her demos to record companies and almost signed with Boardwalk and recorded demos for Atlantic. So I guess she could have recorded Holiday for Jellybean instead of turning it down but then who was she signed to? I am not sure how many doors she knocked on. I still think her management was not very helpful to her cause. I suppose she could have signed to some off brand label like Motorcity again which she eventually did in 1992 with CEO which folded when she released her CD. I don't know how many other labels she may have approached. I think maybe because she was so "silly" and didn't have the same exact voice as Diana Ross that the record companies may not have been interested. I always found it interesting that everyone regards Florence as such a voice yet Motown seemed to record and release more songs led by Mary than Florence, maybe because it was a counterpoint to the sound they were known for and Flo, though louder, was more similar in that musical vein. Would it have been that hard for Motown to record them, work with them and release them as lead on a b-side of a single? When the focus goes from a trio to just one there will be different reactions-Florence became angry, vocal and acted out while Mary became insecure and hurt.

[RanRan79]

To be fair to Levine, he was on a mission to sign and record anybody from Motown. Barbara Martin could've done something with him had she been interested. So it's hard for me to take Mary's work with him seriously. Mary obviously had horrible management. Maybe she needed a talent agency? I'm not sure how that whole thing works.

Florence had more leads than Mary when Florence was in the group. Release wise, they both ended up with two full leads each and some partials on some of the albums. I don't think Motown gave it much thought when it come to Flo and Mary's output. If a song they recorded was good enough to make the album, it made the album. It wasn't a contest. Of course, I can't let the opportunity pass by without pointing out that my personal opinion is that there were better songs in the can that could've been added to A Go Go over "Come and Get These Memories".

Being diplomatic just didn't seem to be a concern of Gordy's. I really believe that if some attention and care had been given to Flo and Mary as individuals, the same way as what Diana was getting, things would not have gone so left. Gordy had a plan for Diana and I don't have a problem with that. [[Obviously, considering how big a fan I am of hers.) Based off of what they've said, Flo and Mary supposedly didn't have a problem with it on it's own merits, but were instead upset at the "pushed around" and "pushed aside" way they were sometimes handled.

As far as I'm concerned, there isn't a credible argument that can be made against Flo and Mary having not just one but more than one lead on each album. There's no credible argument to be made against giving them b sides of singles. I'll accept arguments against them having leads on A sides, considering Diana's lead voice was an inarguable key to the group's success, but as I've said before, I personally think there are a couple of the hits that I think Florence in particular could've done justice to. And Flo and Mary could have done more leads in the live act.

Would the Supremes still have imploded? Maybe. The truth appears to be that who was singing what and when was the lease of their concerns, and certainly not the root of the issue. These ladies were on the road more often than not, and they were mostly in the company of only each other [[and the entourage). You spend all that time together, especially being so young, and you're bound to get on each other's nerves. And once that happens, little things can become big things and before you know it, things have nosedived. Plus you had two headstrong and opinionated young ladies in Florence and Diana, which just made things worst. But even worst than that was the Svengali inserting himself into everything.

But I suspect with more to do, and more exposure as vocalists, when solo time came, Flo and Mary would have fared better. [[Of course in Flo's case, it didn't take her long after severing her ties with Motown to score a record deal.)