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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    I may the only one here who just can't picture Diana pulling off portraying Josephine Baker the way she did Billie Holiday. I don't think the magic of her Lady Sings The Blues performance could have been recaptured for a second time playing another legend.

    When exactly did the idea of Diana playing Josephine come about? Mary was doing Josephine in the Supremes dream sequence in 1975 and we know Diana saw that - did that spark the idea? She then went on to impersonated her in her 1977 TV special and then as early as 1981 began discussing doing a film about her. This continued for the next 10 years where things lingered in development hell. At one point she mentioned having a script and director in place with production soon to begin but then that fell apart. I think after this point she should have moved on. But then in 1991 she was still talking about it for TNT but by then frankly I think Diana was too old to play a Josephine Baker of the 1920s and 1930s that most people tend to think of. Being hung up on the Josephine Baker story for so many years hindered other great film opportunities in the 80s.

    Someone mentioned Diana doing television spots in the 80s. Dallas and Dynasty were ratings gold in the 80s, gathering tens of millions each week. After the failure of The Wiz, perhaps doing several guest spots on these shows could have rejuvenated interest in her doing more films.
    I don’t think playing Billie Holiday would have any kind of medication one way or another if she could play Josephine Baker as they were two completely different personalities and lifestyles. I think Diana had a lot more to relate to with the Josephine Baker story her love of children her ability to embrace people of all color, her penchant for glamour and her ability to obliterate audiences with her charisma. very few people were qualified to do the Josephine Baker story as well as diana ross. I thought Lynn Whitfield was a snore, in a rather unremarkable movie. She got great reviews and an Emmy award, but I just thought it was a perfunctory run-of-the-mill biopic.

    I don’t think seeing Mary play Josephine Baker in that cornball dream sequence in September 1975 had anything to do with Diana wanting to play the part as she had already had two encounters with Josephine Baker and there had already been negotiations with Josephine Baker for the rights to her story in 1973. If anything, it might have scared her off. LOL. This was not a highlight of Mary’s career.
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    Last edited by TheMotownManiac; 07-16-2022 at 07:50 AM.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    She certainly could have done a tv few guest spots over the years. In "Girlfriends" and in "Blackish" for sure. Could she have had a role in "The Cosby Show"? "Gimme a Break"?
    She also could’ve had a reoccurring role on Reba, I thank the Sweet Lord Jesus every day she stayed out of television. I never missed Dallas, but when I began reading those tabloid rumors about her going on Dallas or dynasty, I nearly lost my hamburger heaven lunch! [[I remember the day very well we were in New York) I remember thinking that just because the last album had been a bit of a disaster commercially, her career had not sunk to the level of Joan Collins or Jane Wyman!

    maybe a limited Golden girls reboot with Miss Ross, Cher and Cyndie Lauper………

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post

    When exactly did the idea of Diana playing Josephine come about? Mary was doing Josephine in the Supremes dream sequence in 1975 and we know Diana saw that - did that spark the idea? She then went on to impersonated her in her 1977 TV special and then as early as 1981 began discussing doing a film about her. This continued for the next 10 years where things lingered in development hell. At one point she mentioned having a script and director in place with production soon to begin but then that fell apart. I think after this point she should have moved on. But then in 1991 she was still talking about it for TNT but by then frankly I think Diana was too old to play a Josephine Baker of the 1920s and 1930s that most people tend to think of. Being hung up on the Josephine Baker story for so many years hindered other great film opportunities in the 80s.
    I think Diana first encountered Josephine when she was promoting LSTB at Cannes. I read that they ran into each other on a staircase and Josephine said something like "Honey, you showed them what show business is all about." The idea might have started around that time and as I wrote earlier, Josephine offered to sell her life story to Berry for $1 million, which he didn't want to pay.

    I think Diana might also have attended a show when Josephine came to America circa 1975.

  4. #54
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    Although potentially less glamorous, i would loved for Diana to have starred in a biop of singer/actress Eartha Kitt. It is said that Diana built her look and sound after Kitt’s.
    They had previously met once before when Diana was still in the Supremes, although supposedly the meeting didn’t go terribly well when Diana remarked “”people tell me I look just like you”.
    From her brutal and impoverished beginning, to outspoken star of stage and screen, Eartha’s story was certainly one worth telling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
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    I don’t think playing Billie Holiday would have any kind of medication one way or another if she could play Josephine Baker as they were two completely different personalities and lifestyles. I think Diana had a lot more to relate to with the Josephine Baker story her love of children her ability to embrace people of all color, her penchant for glamour and her ability to obliterate audiences with her charisma. very few people were qualified to do the Josephine Baker story as well as diana ross. I thought Lynn Whitfield was a snore, in a rather unremarkable movie. She got great reviews and an Emmy award, but I just thought it was a perfunctory run-of-the-mill biopic.

    I don’t think seeing Mary play Josephine Baker in that cornball dream sequence in September 1975 had anything to do with Diana wanting to play the part as she had already had two encounters with Josephine Baker and there had already been negotiations with Josephine Baker for the rights to her story in 1973. If anything, it might have scared her off. LOL. This was not a highlight of Mary’s career.
    https://pin.it/1gRJbLo
    Just because Diana had a lot of similarities to Josephine Baker’s life doesn’t mean she could have portrayed her effectively. I just cannot see her transforming into her. Ollie9 mentioned Eartha Kitt which I could see, but I think after Lady Sings The Blues, the idea of doing another biopic would be limiting her.

    If she truly wanted to establish herself as an actress she needed to 1.) Get away from Berry/Motown having any control. Films were not their forte and it showed. 2.) She needed to be open to branching out into other genres that didn’t involve music or a musical figure. 3.) She needed to let others take the reigns. We all know she was never good at seeing what was best for herself in her career. Films were definitely not her field and having a manager with experience to know what would serve her strengths could have really benefited her. I know at this time in her life she was done with being controlled and wanted to do it herself but she didn’t have the experience.

    Of the three films she made, one was a hit and two were box office disappointments with one of those being was a huge flop due to her being terribly miscast. Her track record in the film world wasn’t gold. She had a lot of good potential vehicles to explore outside of Motown even if it meant she wasn’t given top billing. I know she was considered for The Witches of Eastwick and The Color Purple. Both films got good reviews and did well at the box office. It’s too bad she didn’t do them. They could have been just wanted she needed.
    Last edited by bradsupremes; 07-16-2022 at 12:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    Just because Diana had a lot of similarities to Josephine Baker’s life doesn’t mean she could have portrayed her effectively. I just cannot see her transforming into her. Ollie9 mentioned Eartha Kitt which I could see, but I think after Lady Sings The Blues, the idea of doing another biopic would be limiting her.

    If she truly wanted to establish herself as an actress she needed to 1.) Get away from Berry/Motown having any control. Films were not their forte and it showed. 2.) She needed to be open to branching out into other genres that didn’t involve music or a musical figure. 3.) She needed to let others take the reigns. We all know she was never good at seeing what was best for herself in her career. Films were definitely not her field and having a manager with experience to know what would serve her strengths could have really benefited her. I know at this time in her life she was done with being controlled and wanted to do it herself but she didn’t have the experience.

    Of the three films she made, one was a hit and two were box office disappointments with one of those being was a huge flop due to her being terribly miscast. Her track record in the film world wasn’t gold. She had a lot of good potential vehicles to explore outside of Motown even if it meant she wasn’t given top billing. I know she was considered for The Witches of Eastwick and The Color Purple. Both films got good reviews and did well at the box office. It’s too bad she didn’t do them. They could have been just wanted she needed.
    Alice Walker, the author of the Color Purple vetoed any idea of casting Diana as Shug Avery. I don’t think it was anything personal, but probably thought Diana Ross to big a celebrity in a cast of lesser known actors. Chaka Khan was offered the role but turned it down
    Last edited by Ollie9; 07-16-2022 at 01:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    I think Diana might also have attended a show when Josephine came to America circa 1975.
    Yes, I believe it was at this performance that La Baker walked up to Diana's seat and ran her fingers through Ross' hair. Diana told Arsenio that she took this to be an omen.

    After Whitfield scored the biopic, Anaid Films announced that they were going forward with their own Baker project which would focus on her WWII years as a spy for the Résistance. Radio silence from the networks ensued.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Alice Walker, the author of the Color Purple vetoed any idea of casting Diana as Shug Avery. I don’t think it was anything personal, but probably thought Diana Ross to big a celebrity in a cast of lesser known actors. Chaka Khan was offered the role but turned it down
    And yet Tina Turner was offered the role and in 1985, Tina was significantly more popular and just as famous as Diana so that logic doesn't quite make sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    And yet Tina Turner was offered the role and in 1985, Tina was significantly more popular and just as famous as Diana so that logic doesn't quite make sense.
    Good point brad, i was forgetting about Tina. Perhaps it was personal after all lol.
    In reality, i don’t think Diana would have accepted the role even if offered. For her it was leading lady or nothing me thinks. Personally I think she would have been brilliant as Shug.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Alice Walker, the author of the Color Purple vetoed any idea of casting Diana as Shug Avery. I don’t think it was anything personal, but probably thought Diana Ross to big a celebrity in a cast of lesser known actors. Chaka Khan was offered the role but turned it down
    Chaka ended up playing Sofia in the Broadway production. I bought tickets specifically to see her but she was only doing select performances.

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    As for Josephine Baker, the scene where Diana Ross charges people an admission price to watch her kids playing would’ve been worth seeing alone

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Was Streisand ever more feminine then when starring in Yentl lol. Her female speaking voice shot up an octave when attempting to portray a studious young man. Great music, but a lousy film.
    In Call Her M’s Ross, it’s mentioned Diana’s film career was over managed, and that she was quite unaware of the roles that were being offered to her after the success of Lady.
    Yentl is a beautiful movie from what I have seen, I just absolutely could not buy her as a male. I have a fairly open mind about things but it just didn’t work for me.

    The real problem with ross’ film career, is that she was under the thumb of Berry Gordy and he wanted very much to be associated with her success in film. This is why his signature appeared on every 45 of mahogany. The work she did with Tony Richardson in that film was stupendous, i’m not going to comment any further except to say she tried very hard to do well swimming upstream after the change of directors. I don’t care for her in the wiz but, she was giving the director what he wanted and years and years later he was still raving about her performance. In a positive way lol. I think that she could give talented directors more than we have seen.
    Last edited by TheMotownManiac; 07-23-2022 at 10:40 PM.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    Just because Diana had a lot of similarities to Josephine Baker’s life doesn’t mean she could have portrayed her effectively. I just cannot see her transforming into her. Ollie9 mentioned Eartha Kitt which I could see, but I think after Lady Sings The Blues, the idea of doing another biopic would be limiting her.

    If she truly wanted to establish herself as an actress she needed to 1.) Get away from Berry/Motown having any control. Films were not their forte and it showed. 2.) She needed to be open to branching out into other genres that didn’t involve music or a musical figure. 3.) She needed to let others take the reigns. We all know she was never good at seeing what was best for herself in her career. Films were definitely not her field and having a manager with experience to know what would serve her strengths could have really benefited her. I know at this time in her life she was done with being controlled and wanted to do it herself but she didn’t have the experience.

    Of the three films she made, one was a hit and two were box office disappointments with one of those being was a huge flop due to her being terribly miscast. Her track record in the film world wasn’t gold. She had a lot of good potential vehicles to explore outside of Motown even if it meant she wasn’t given top billing. I know she was considered for The Witches of Eastwick and The Color Purple. Both films got good reviews and did well at the box office. It’s too bad she didn’t do them. They could have been just wanted she needed.
    I was just using the children thing as one little example. The main reason I think that she would do Josephine well is that she had the audacity that Josephine had. She could handle the glamour it was 10 years after lady sings the blues so I don’t think another biopic would’ve been an issue.

    i’m certain that she would have been more than willing to give with the directors wanted during a shoot. Her work with Tony Richardson shows that.

    One of the reasons the wiz was a flop was ross being missed cast. But the screenplay was horrendous, the costumes atrocious, the lighting and the sound were bad, it was visually unpleasant, the humor bombed and special effects were laughable. The movie got terrible reviews and not just because of her. Industry folk knew that was an anomaly and they were still offering her films like the bodyguard, the main event…… She just wasn’t doing them. I would’ve enjoyed seeing her as Shug, but not at the expense of what we got because she was absolutely perfect. Mahogany did not perform as expected, but considering the reviews and the questionable quality of the majority of the film, I think it did pretty well. It did make a profit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    Yentl is a beautiful movie from what I have seen, I just absolutely could not buy her as a male. I have a fairly open mind about things but it just didn’t work for me.

    The real problem with ross’ film career, is that she was under the thumb of Berry Gordy and he wanted very much to be associated with her success in film. This is why his signature appeared on every 45 of mahogany. The work she did with Tony Richardson in that film was stupendous, i’m not going to comment any further except to say she tried very hard to do well swimming upstream after the change of directors. I don’t care for her in the wiz but, she was giving the director what he wanted and years and years later he was still raving about her performance. In a positive way lol. I think that she could give talented directors more than we have seen.
    Yentl is a beautifully shot film with the only problem being ego. Streisand is more feminine when attempting to portray a young man then she is as her female character at the start of the film. I attended the after filming party and met her briefly. The crew wrote a letter to the press saying what a joy she was to work with.
    I agree about Gordy, with the 70’s being the time Ross should have been making quality movies. Having said that, BG had a huge influence on her, and Naked At The Feast would probably have been made had she not insisted on complete control.
    Out of curiosity, which are those stupendous scenes in Mahogany. They seem to have passed me by lol..

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    ^When did the crew write a letter saying she was a joke to work with? They did the opposite because the press continuously tried to rip Barbra to shreds. They kept saying what a diva she was, and the cast and crew wrote an ad saying how great she was at what she did. She filmed Yentl in England, and since they were used to being lead by a Queen she had no problem getting things done. She had full support of the crew. It was her next film back in the United States that gave her a problem. They were not used to a woman being the boss, and they gave her hell. Even Nick Nolte gave her hell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JLoveLamar View Post
    ^When did the crew write a letter saying she was a joke to work with? They did the opposite because the press continuously tried to rip Barbra to shreds. They kept saying what a diva she was, and the cast and crew wrote an ad saying how great she was at what she did. She filmed Yentl in England, and since they were used to being lead by a Queen she had no problem getting things done. She had full support of the crew. It was her next film back in the United States that gave her a problem. They were not used to a woman being the boss, and they gave her hell. Even Nick Nolte gave her hell.
    I think you need to read my post a little more carefully lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Yentl is a beautifully shot film with the only problem being ego. Streisand is more feminine when attempting to portray a young man then she is as her female character at the start of the film. I attended the after filming party and met her briefly. The crew wrote a letter to the press saying what a joy she was to work with.
    I agree about Gordy, with the 70’s being the time Ross should have been making quality movies. Having said that, BG had a huge influence on her, and Naked At The Feast would probably have been made had she not insisted on complete control.
    Out of curiosity, which are those stupendous scenes in Mahogany. They seem to have passed me by lol..
    how cool you met Babs!

    my favorite scene in the film, that shows her potential as a screen star, is the scene in the campaign office when she’s on the phone. It doesn’t show her doing histrionics, or out of darkness dramatics, instead it shows how deaf she is with simple dialogue, props and blocking while still projecting through her character’s personality, everything she’s coping with, cooly in a work environment. She is engaging in a simple scene, and that’s easier said than done. As an ex actor, I can still see in performances The qualities and techniques I laughed and that led me to seek, wisely, another career. Getting cast is a whole lot easier than being proud of your work. I often see seems like that in films, even great films, where the mundane day-to-day tasks required that don’t come across anywhere near as well as that scene. She is fully committed and buying into what her character is experiencing. It appears simple, but that’s what makes movie stars. We know she can handle the histrionics, and her very convincing performance at Café Manhattan before good morning heartache.

    anyway all of the Tony Richardson scenes, to me, come across as exactly as they are intended. Unfortunately, the rest of the film, I’m not going to comment on. But I will say that given some of the terrible terrible dialogue she was given in Rome, she makes some of it work a little bit, but I did cringe quite a bit. It probably has a lot to do with her relationship with Berry Gordy because, especially in her first scene in Rome with Anthony Perkins, she is not into what she’s doing and I’m going to venture to guess that issues with her Director might be the culprit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    how cool you met Babs!

    my favorite scene in the film, that shows her potential as a screen star, is the scene in the campaign office when she’s on the phone. It doesn’t show her doing histrionics, or out of darkness dramatics, instead it shows how deaf she is with simple dialogue, props and blocking while still projecting through her character’s personality, everything she’s coping with, cooly in a work environment. She is engaging in a simple scene, and that’s easier said than done. As an ex actor, I can still see in performances The qualities and techniques I laughed and that led me to seek, wisely, another career. Getting cast is a whole lot easier than being proud of your work. I often see seems like that in films, even great films, where the mundane day-to-day tasks required that don’t come across anywhere near as well as that scene. She is fully committed and buying into what her character is experiencing. It appears simple, but that’s what makes movie stars. We know she can handle the histrionics, and her very convincing performance at Café Manhattan before good morning heartache.

    anyway all of the Tony Richardson scenes, to me, come across as exactly as they are intended. Unfortunately, the rest of the film, I’m not going to comment on. But I will say that given some of the terrible terrible dialogue she was given in Rome, she makes some of it work a little bit, but I did cringe quite a bit. It probably has a lot to do with her relationship with Berry Gordy because, especially in her first scene in Rome with Anthony Perkins, she is not into what she’s doing and I’m going to venture to guess that issues with her Director might be the culprit.
    Once a thespian always a thespian.
    Other then the scene with the rapist, I've never been entirely sure which scenes Richardson actually directed.
    I think the film was badly let down by other cast member. Jean-Pierre Aumont comes across as a hammy camp queen while Marissa Mel as Carlotta is robotic. It’s a shame as there are strong performances from Nina Foch as the wonderfully awful Miss Evans, and Beah Richards is charming as the protective Aunt Florence.
    I think after LSTB they wanted something a ‘tad lighter. It’s just criminal Diana had to wait until late 74 before she appeared before the cameras again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I think you need to read my post a little more carefully lol.
    I'm getting YOUNG, Oxenfree. I thought that said "joke"

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    Quote Originally Posted by JLoveLamar View Post
    I'm getting YOUNG, Oxenfree. I thought that said "joke"
    No probs. Perhaps Mahogany should have been a musical as well. They certainly reprise the theme tune enough times.

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    Diana Ross in her 1987 TV Special, "Red Hot Rhythm and Blues" was paired with Billy Dee Williams in a song and dance number of Marv Johnson's hit song, "You've Got What it Takes". The artistic and romantic chemistry between these certified superstars is phenomenal!
    A romantic show business comedy would have been great. Possibly, songs by Cole Porter, Harold Arden, Duke Ellington and Fats Waller could have been included in the movie with Diana Ross and Billy Dee Williams singing a few duets.
    As evidenced in Diana Ross' jazz and blues show "Stolen Moments", Ms. Diana Ross is still the "It Girl".
    The "Thank You" album has the lovely charms of a that pristine velvet voice, as whenever Diana Ross sings today,"Little Girl Blue".

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNSUN View Post
    Diana Ross in her 1987 TV Special, "Red Hot Rhythm and Blues" was paired with Billy Dee Williams in a song and dance number of Marv Johnson's hit song, "You've Got What it Takes". The artistic and romantic chemistry between these certified superstars is phenomenal!
    A romantic show business comedy would have been great. Possibly, songs by Cole Porter, Harold Arden, Duke Ellington and Fats Waller could have been included in the movie with Diana Ross and Billy Dee Williams singing a few duets.
    As evidenced in Diana Ross' jazz and blues show "Stolen Moments", Ms. Diana Ross is still the "It Girl".
    The "Thank You" album has the lovely charms of a that pristine velvet voice, as whenever Diana Ross sings today,"Little Girl Blue".
    I would much sooner have seen Diana and Billy Dee Williams cast together in Eyes Of Laura Mars. Diana would have been a natural for playing the part of a fashion photographer, with Billy Dee cast as the serial killer who enjoys hacking models to death.
    She might even have performed “Prisoner” the films theme song.
    Just a thought......

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