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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    Wasn't Wayne someone that Mary brought in; someone non-Motown? For as little as the label seemingly wanted to do with the group, they still had their thumb over all of their doings.

    What I wonder is, as each group member left, did Mary ring up Motown first and let them know? Or did she just go out and say ta-da, here is our new member. I think by JW, Motown was hoping the group would just go out to pasture. Then "High Energy" hit with MSC, and their ears perked up a bit.
    through summer of 72, the group still had very strong bookings, sure Touch bombed but FJ had helped bounce back a bit. I think motown was still thinking there was at least some money to be made. but the JW turd sealed the deal. Bayou mentioned how upset jean was with the promotion dept, JW has mentioned the cover was dumb [[i'm using my words there), IGIMTM was the only single. did motown hear the album and was like "oh man this sucks" or what happened? if that was the case, why agree to release it? they had not problem sending Version 1 of HE back to be redone. i agree that changes improved it but Version 1 was still a solid album. lightyears better than JW. if they had so many problems that they wanted nothing to do with it, why didn't they say "this shit sucks - fix it or it'll go into the vault forever"

    and yeah i have no idea bout where Wayne came from. mary then mentions that later in the year they switched managers again and that is where the Temps/Sup tour took hold. I think that means Shelley was managing them again? maybe this was a hope to revitalize the group by piggy backing off the more popular Tempts? but then they released this JW nonsense and dusted off the DRATS music?

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    Then "High Energy" hit with MSC, and their ears perked up a bit.
    that is how i understand it. motown probably didn't care all that much about Sup 75. i guess they thought It's All Been Said had a more pop sound and should be the single. when M/P said "no way" motown was probably like "i could give a shit" and let them do what they wanted. then HMM and some of the songs did very well on NYC regional disco so motown at least paid attention "hmmmm the gays and the disco crowd seems to still be following them"

    not sure why Greg Wright didn't do more production with them since HMM was the top performing song on the album - you'd think he would have been invited to do more. but the Hollands took over and with HE and the success of Walking, motown must have been like "ok we hardly did jackshit with any of this material and they're making some disco chart impact here and even a bit on the pop market" But then you have Pedro in the way and the very very strained situation following Cindy being axed. Motown must have been like "ok there is some demonstrated potential here - more than in years. but let's clean this up a bit and get it straightened out"

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    through summer of 72, the group still had very strong bookings, sure Touch bombed but FJ had helped bounce back a bit. I think motown was still thinking there was at least some money to be made. but the JW turd sealed the deal. Bayou mentioned how upset jean was with the promotion dept, JW has mentioned the cover was dumb [[i'm using my words there), IGIMTM was the only single. did motown hear the album and was like "oh man this sucks" or what happened? if that was the case, why agree to release it? they had not problem sending Version 1 of HE back to be redone. i agree that changes improved it but Version 1 was still a solid album. lightyears better than JW. if they had so many problems that they wanted nothing to do with it, why didn't they say "this shit sucks - fix it or it'll go into the vault forever"

    and yeah i have no idea bout where Wayne came from. mary then mentions that later in the year they switched managers again and that is where the Temps/Sup tour took hold. I think that means Shelley was managing them again? maybe this was a hope to revitalize the group by piggy backing off the more popular Tempts? but then they released this JW nonsense and dusted off the DRATS music?
    After FJ, perhaps Motown should have went back into the vaults and dusted off "Promises Kept". Would've "Oh, My Poor Baby" or "Take Your Dreams Back" made good singles?

  4. #104
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    Wayne was Motown appointed
    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    Wasn't Wayne someone that Mary brought in; someone non-Motown? For as little as the label seemingly wanted to do with the group, they still had their thumb over all of their doings.

    What I wonder is, as each group member left, did Mary ring up Motown first and let them know? Or did she just go out and say ta-da, here is our new member. I think by JW, Motown was hoping the group would just go out to pasture. Then "High Energy" hit with MSC, and their ears perked up a bit.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    After FJ, perhaps Motown should have went back into the vaults and dusted off "Promises Kept". Would've "Oh, My Poor Baby" or "Take Your Dreams Back" made good singles?
    I don't feel any of the songs that have been bandied about for a "Promises Kept" album had big hit potential. Some of them I like very much, but none of them scream "hit!". Whatever 10 or 12 songs that would have ended up as a Promises Kept album would have made for a pleasant collection of early 70s Motown, but would not make for a great album.

  6. #106
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    IMO the strongest Promises Kept songs were

    Tears left over - frank wilson
    Oh my poor baby - Pam sawyer, gloria jones
    I'll have to let him know - pam sawyer, gloria jones
    Cant get you out of my mind - A&S

    of those, Tears is the one that might have made a decent single. its a tried and true FW production but there's a bit of funkiness with it. perhaps he could have evolved the group's sound to include more of the funk elements he did with Eddie

    Pam had been working on so many quality recordings that IMO it was high time she be given the opportunity to produce a group. you had the whole "women's lib" going on and while motown was a deeply chauvinistic place, pair the Sups up with a pair of female producers could have made for some nice publicity.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    IMO the strongest Promises Kept songs were

    Tears left over - frank wilson
    Oh my poor baby - Pam sawyer, gloria jones
    I'll have to let him know - pam sawyer, gloria jones
    Cant get you out of my mind - A&S

    of those, Tears is the one that might have made a decent single. its a tried and true FW production but there's a bit of funkiness with it. perhaps he could have evolved the group's sound to include more of the funk elements he did with Eddie

    Pam had been working on so many quality recordings that IMO it was high time she be given the opportunity to produce a group. you had the whole "women's lib" going on and while motown was a deeply chauvinistic place, pair the Sups up with a pair of female producers could have made for some nice publicity.
    True, but the concept would have been lost with the velvet "Farewell" gowns.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    True, but the concept would have been lost with the velvet "Farewell" gowns.
    haha - maybe the girls could have called the Sullivan wardrobe dept [[since that show was wrapping up for good) and requested those mauve crushed-velvet pantsuits from Shame lol. everyone always says Diana is, from a fashion perspective, ahead of her time. maybe those outfits would have worked better in 72 lol


    some of the 70s outfits were quite hot - the white fringe mini dresses. damn fine! the fringe pantsuits from Andy Williams

    i think the cover of FJ is stunning. i don't think those would work on stage but in a photo shoot the coordinated high-fashion all-white outfits are amazing. and the pops of red. you could have had a designer create some sets of gowns that were more current and maybe a bit less Vegas-glitz. each outfit could be different but it's still a set. they're not just totally random.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spreadinglove21 View Post
    I don't feel any of the songs that have been bandied about for a "Promises Kept" album had big hit potential. Some of them I like very much, but none of them scream "hit!". Whatever 10 or 12 songs that would have ended up as a Promises Kept album would have made for a pleasant collection of early 70s Motown, but would not make for a great album.
    "Tears Left Over," "Oh My Poor Baby," and "Take Your Dreams Back" wouldn't have been the hits in the same vein as "Stoned Love" or "Up The Ladder" but they certainly would have gone top 40/top 20. I'm quite fond of "I'll Let Him Know That I Love Him."

    I know there are those who felt "5:30 Plane" should have been a single from the Jimmy Webb album but it wouldn't done anything. I don't think there is a single song on that album that was worthy of a single release. It's just a bad album with poor songs - the worst in their entire catalog. When you think of the potential of what the Supremes/Stevie Wonder album could have been, it makes you wish Motown gave that album a chance and abandoned the Jimmy Webb album instead. Just listen to the Stevie Wonder Presents Syreeta album and envision Jean doing those songs.
    Last edited by bradsupremes; 07-08-2022 at 06:12 PM.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    "Tears Left Over," "Oh My Poor Baby," and "Take Your Dreams Back" wouldn't have been the hits in the same vein as "Stoned Love" or "Up The Ladder" but they certainly would have gone top 40/top 20. I'm quite fond of "I'll Let Him Know That I Love Him."

    I know there are those who felt "5:30 Plane" should have been a single from the Jimmy Webb album but it wouldn't done anything. I don't think there is a single song on that album that was worthy of a single release. It's just a bad album with poor songs - the worst in their entire catalog. When you think of the potential of what the Supremes/Stevie Wonder album could have been, it makes you wish Motown gave that album a chance and abandoned the Jimmy Webb album instead. Just listen to the Stevie Wonder Presents Syreeta album and envision Jean doing those songs.
    yeah i'm of the camp that does think 530 would have worked. like you said about Tears Left Over and the other, would not have been a Stoned Love but with some degree of promotion it would have charted IMO. maybe up to the 20s. I also like Cheap Lovin and Once In the Morning [[although that would never have worked as a single).

    i wonder a bit with the Stevie project too. had they gone onto him directly from the FJ set, maybe it would have worked. perhaps the JW set just killed any hopes for anything. Also i wonder if it was Stevie that cancelled the album and any additional work or if it was Jean's announcement of her departure [[at least internally).

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spreadinglove21 View Post
    I don't feel any of the songs that have been bandied about for a "Promises Kept" album had big hit potential. Some of them I like very much, but none of them scream "hit!". Whatever 10 or 12 songs that would have ended up as a Promises Kept album would have made for a pleasant collection of early 70s Motown, but would not make for a great album.
    I don't know if any "scream" hit, but I think "Tears Left Over", "Take Your Dreams Back" and "I'll Let Him Know" might have had a chance. I think the PK album would've ended up a very good album. I wish "Still Water" had been completed. I really love it.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    "Tears Left Over," "Oh My Poor Baby," and "Take Your Dreams Back" wouldn't have been the hits in the same vein as "Stoned Love" or "Up The Ladder" but they certainly would have gone top 40/top 20. I'm quite fond of "I'll Let Him Know That I Love Him."

    I know there are those who felt "5:30 Plane" should have been a single from the Jimmy Webb album but it wouldn't done anything. I don't think there is a single song on that album that was worthy of a single release. It's just a bad album with poor songs - the worst in their entire catalog. When you think of the potential of what the Supremes/Stevie Wonder album could have been, it makes you wish Motown gave that album a chance and abandoned the Jimmy Webb album instead. Just listen to the Stevie Wonder Presents Syreeta album and envision Jean doing those songs.
    To me, if there was any song on the JW album that was single material, or had a chance in hell of becoming some type of hit, it was "5:30 Plane". I wouldn't say the album is bad, just that it's not what the Supremes should have been doing.

    I am not a Syreeta fan, but Stevie Presents is one of my all time fav albums, period. To think that those songs may have been Jean's and the Supremes...I could punch somebody for not seeing the project through to the end.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    To me, if there was any song on the JW album that was single material, or had a chance in hell of becoming some type of hit, it was "5:30 Plane". I wouldn't say the album is bad, just that it's not what the Supremes should have been doing.

    I am not a Syreeta fan, but Stevie Presents is one of my all time fav albums, period. To think that those songs may have been Jean's and the Supremes...I could punch somebody for not seeing the project through to the end.
    It’s a bad album. When you listen to what he did for Thelma Houston on her Sunshower album, the 5th Dimension on The Magic Garden and then Earthbound, and then Richard Harris’ A Tramp Shining and The Yard Went On Forever, this album is such a dud. The songs are not the best from his catalog, the arrangements are bland and flat which doesn’t serve the ladies and vocally Jean is all over the place, shrill at times.

    I believe several songs from that Syreeta album were written for Jean. I forgot who said it but someone asked Lynda about those Stevie sessions and she recalled them recording six songs. We know of the three. What were the others? I would love to pull the tapes for that Syreeta album. It makes me wonder if there are Supremes vocals there.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    It’s a bad album. When you listen to what he did for Thelma Houston on her Sunshower album, the 5th Dimension on The Magic Garden and then Earthbound, and then Richard Harris’ A Tramp Shining and The Yard Went On Forever, this album is such a dud. The songs are not the best from his catalog, the arrangements are bland and flat which doesn’t serve the ladies and vocally Jean is all over the place, shrill at times.

    I believe several songs from that Syreeta album were written for Jean. I forgot who said it but someone asked Lynda about those Stevie sessions and she recalled them recording six songs. We know of the three. What were the others? I would love to pull the tapes for that Syreeta album. It makes me wonder if there are Supremes vocals there.
    Jimmy Webb was the wrong album at the wrong time. Stevie said he felt Motown was handling Jean wrong because she sounded great on certain riffs but Motown wasn't taking advantage of it. Jean sounded great on Right On, started to get more confident [[and slightly more nasal) on New Ways, had her strongest and full bodied vocals on Touch and reverted to a more light, frothy sound on Floy Joy. She had always gone back and forth on sounding somewhat nasal but she did sound strained and shrill on Jimmy Webb. Mary sounded fine on I Keep It Hid, but her Anthology version is better. Who knows if they had scrapped that and went with Stevie it would have been more successful. Bad Weather didn't capture the market at all, for a combo of 2 of Motown's biggest stars. Jimmy Webb was a major talent. I had heard that he had some difficulties in the studio with Jean.

  15. #115
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    Jean joined Martha and Vandellas in suing Motown for royalties and Motown settled with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim aka jtigre99 View Post
    Jimmy Webb was the wrong album at the wrong time. Stevie said he felt Motown was handling Jean wrong because she sounded great on certain riffs but Motown wasn't taking advantage of it. Jean sounded great on Right On, started to get more confident [[and slightly more nasal) on New Ways, had her strongest and full bodied vocals on Touch and reverted to a more light, frothy sound on Floy Joy. She had always gone back and forth on sounding somewhat nasal but she did sound strained and shrill on Jimmy Webb. Mary sounded fine on I Keep It Hid, but her Anthology version is better. Who knows if they had scrapped that and went with Stevie it would have been more successful. Bad Weather didn't capture the market at all, for a combo of 2 of Motown's biggest stars. Jimmy Webb was a major talent. I had heard that he had some difficulties in the studio with Jean.
    agreed that the final output of JW was disappointing. again though i'll go back to my comment that i've made multiple times and in multiple posts/threads. when you look collectively at the work the group did during the jean years, there is a lot of excellent content. but the overall description is "chaotic" or "disorganized" something along those lines

    you have stunning examples like RO and Touch. NW is strong but hampered a bit by sloppy execution of the group's image and they also missed the opportunity to create a mega-strong album by adjusting the tracks a bit. it's good but could have been great.

    the duets were essentially a hot mess and a major distraction

    and just as the group was making headway with Frank, they pivot to Smokey and FJ. it's a solid album and not a massive departure from what they'd been doing, but it was a change

    then JW

    then Stevie

    so much of going this way or that way or trying this or trying that. combined with the personnel changes, it just was total chaos and confusion to the average record buyer and they just were not that interested in investing the time to learn about the group. only major fans like us bothered with that

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