The Marvelous Marvelettes lp featuring Florence Ballard?

[BayouMotownMan]

I am in a Marvelettes mood of late and was listening to their 1963 lp The Marvelous Marvelettes with my headphones. I was struck by a familiar voice on two tracks.

On I Forgot About You it sure sounds like Flo on the background...in fact it sounds like the Supremes backing Gladys. Likewise on Silly Boy, again sounds like Flo in the background. Both tracks recorded in Sept 1962. I knew Flo subbed for Wanda onstage during Wanda's pregnancy but now I wonder if she didn't record with them.

Several producers have said they used other backing vocalists on Marvelettes recordings because the girls had a rather shrill sound. Can anybody else listen to these two tracks and see if you hear what I hear?

[reese]

Someone posted many years ago that Rosalind Ashford did some vocals on this album. Perhaps it is her on the songs you mentioned.

[BayouMotownMan]

I know Ros's voice, has a sweeter tone than Flo. This sounds like Flo

[copley]

Rosalind Ashford did indeed sing backing vocals on 6 tracks, not Flo.

"I Forgot About You"
"Which Way Did He Go"
"Silly Boy"
"It's Going to Take a Lot of Doing"
"Smart Aleck"
"Why Must You Go"

[BayouMotownMan]

Rosalind Ashford did indeed sing backing vocals on 6 tracks, not Flo.

"I Forgot About You"
"Which Way Did He Go"
"Silly Boy"
"It's Going to Take a Lot of Doing"
"Smart Aleck"
"Why Must You Go"

Where is this documented?

[kenneth]

You can definitely hear Wanda in the background on “Silly Boy,” as they all have a single vocal line of their own. But how interesting to learn that Rosalind Ashford is on several of the tracks. Now I have to dig out my headphones and listen harder!

[sup_fan]

it wouldn't surprise me. motown always had an attitude that the female backing vocalists were pretty much interchangeable. So if Wanda was out on maternity leave and they needed a soprano for some sessions, sure i could see flo or rosalind stepping in.

did they take such an approach with the male groups? did the originals do backing vocals for the tempts or did some of the elgins join in on 4 tops? seems like it's mostly just the girls

[bradsupremes]

it wouldn't surprise me. motown always had an attitude that the female backing vocalists were pretty much interchangeable. So if Wanda was out on maternity leave and they needed a soprano for some sessions, sure i could see flo or rosalind stepping in.

did they take such an approach with the male groups? did the originals do backing vocals for the tempts or did some of the elgins join in on 4 tops? seems like it's mostly just the girls

It was pretty much just the women which is why I find the excuse of "Well it was cheaper to fly the lead in instead of the whole group" to be pretty much horse puckey. Motown knew they could get away with it with the ladies, but wouldn't dare try pulling it on the guys because they know they would get bull for it. Plus you also have to consider there was a bit of misogyny thrown in there.

I can think of a few songs where it wasn't the whole group. The Four Tops' "I Can't Stop This Feelin'" is Levi with the Originals and Andantes. No Tops on that one. Also, Nick Ashford & Valerie Simpson were well known for doing the background vocals on their own productions. A good example of them standing in for the guys were Gladys Knight & the Pips' "I Had A Dream," Four Tops "Can't Get You Out Of My Mind" [[although the Tops may be singing with Nick & Val on this one) and "Don't You Think You Owe Me Something." I'm sure there are others, but I can't think offhand.

[floyjoy678]

I've always wondered if Flo recorded with them as well especially considering she was good friends with them.

I wonder which of the female groups used the Andantes the most. I'm guessing it was probably the Marvelettes. And the Supremes probably the least.

[floyjoy678]

I've always wondered if Flo recorded with them as well especially considering she was good friends with them.

I wonder which of the female groups used the Andantes the most. I'm guessing it was probably the Marvelettes. And the Supremes probably the least.

[sup_fan]

it seems that nearly all of the content by the girl groups from 68 - 71 were using the Andantes. I sort of use the term "Andantes" for all of the female session singers. as we got into the 70s and outside of just Detroit, i think there were others.

but i'd guess that most of the backing vocals on these records have A's on them

Sophisticated Soul
In Full Bloom
part of the M's Pink Album
Riding High
Sugar n Spice
Natural Resources
Black magic
Love Child
let the sunshine in
Cream of the crop
Funny Girl
Right On
Join the Tempts
Together
Mag 7
Return of Mag 7
part of New Ways and Touch

[blackguy69]

If I’m correct Black Magic is a combo Lois and Sandra, the Blackberries and the Andantes.
the marvelettes albums I automatically assumed that the andantes did all of the background work.
as far as for our girls, keep in mind that a huge chunk of their material was recorded in LA thus kinda reasoning that either Jean is also singing in the background or the blackberries were the extra voices.

[sup_fan]

correct - M and C are definitely on some tracks, even in the DRATS years. some are just DMC like Will This Be The Day. some are, i think, M, C and the Andantes [[or whatever backing group). like Evening Train. it gets to be very challenging though to totally decipher who's on what.

of course the Andantes are on the FJ album and much of the material supposedly for Promises Kept. on FJ you can sort of make out which is JMC and which is A's based on the stereo channel

and of course there's plenty of stuff earlier to 68 with the A's on it
*Too many fish in the sea has to have them on it. the 3 part harmonies are just too polished to be the M's
*added to Country Western & Pop.
*supposedly added to Lovelight and Run
*My Baby Loves Me
*Don't mess with bill
*i think most of the Sups from Broadway to Hollywood are the A's and not F and M, some of There's a Place


and many many more

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

the marvelettes albums I automatically assumed that the andantes did all of the background work. .

I really wish that once and for all the belief that the Marvelettes were such bad singers that every record and album they ever recorded had to have been done with the Andantes. First though, I have to admit that was my general belief too for the longest time. That's because I read it in print so much that the belief was practically beaten into my psyche.

But then things started to change when we started getting these collections of vaulted material. Liner notes started including the recollections of producers and what do you know...it turns out the Marvelettes just may not have been subbed out any more or less than the Sups or Vandellas.

I recall in one instance where Ivy Jo Hunter made a surprising comment that used the Andantes often with the Vandellas because the microphones would pick up the, and I'm paraphrasing here, the rougher tones of the girls' voices. In contrast, Ivy seemed to enjoy working with the Marvelettes and used their voices more often than I had realized. Sometimes in conjunction with the Andantes but sometimes he went with the actual group members with no embellishments.

It seems he also liked trying some of his most intriguing productions with the Marvelettes; on "Rainy Mourning," Ivy apparently had the three double track their parts and Wanda may even be in the mix as much as three times, singing lead and backgrounds. On a Facebook group, Ivy recalled how he was trying to do a sort of sound like The Mamas and The Papas. Then you have something amazing like "Just One Last Kiss." That one has a really interesting vocal arrangement that allowed Katherine and Wanda to shine as much as Gladys and without the Andantes being dubbed in. "The Stranger" is another where you have only the Marvelettes voices featured.

Then you have the production team of James Dean and William Weatherspoon who also seemed to enjoy working with the Marvelettes. They, more than anyone else at Motown, post '65, used the actual group on backing vocals more often than most realize. Yes they used the Andantes but their production style brilliantly had the ladies singing mostly unison parts- but some harmony parts as well, while the Andantes provided the wordless oohs and ahhs behind them. Dean and Weatherspoon would have the Andantes fill out the sound more prominently on the choruses. This wasn't done with every song but there are a fair number of times they did.

I'm sure there will be plenty of challengers to all of this and many will go right on believing the Marvelettes never sang a note on any of their records but, oh well. I've had my say.

[sup_fan]

i think the M's sang on many of their tracks. Like When You're Young and In Love, i think the M's are singing in unison on the chorus and then the A's are added with the harmonies. similar to Too many Fish In the Sea.

background singing is actually quite complex. the lines each singer sings doing harmony can often involve challenging jumps and unusual patterns. i don't think it's a case of the M's not being able to sing. it's more about available time. motown was cranking out content and needed things done fast. perhaps it would have taken the M's a couple days to master complex backing vocals whereas the As could practically do it on the spot. Producers have said the A's were really often the ones responsible for their vocals. remember many of the producers had no formal musical training and some couldn't even read music! supposedly the a's came up with their own parts, harmonies and even lyrics on Love Child. the producer probably gave them some ideas, they all toyed around a bit and voila! that's some real skill!

Gladys herself has stated that the M's had to really work on their vocals. they couldn't just pick up a song and do 3-part harmonies like the Sups. that's her own assessment. that's why she has said she felt the M's audience was more the r&b theaters, where they could do big dance numbers, robust songs, etc., as opposed to supper club work like the Copa.

[copley]

All singers are listed on Wikipedia. No Flo! Yes Wanda was on 'Marvellous Marvelettes'.