Why The Supremes Deserve To Be Held In The Same Regard As The Beatles

[milven]

CARYN ROSE

With the recent release of the six-hour Beatles documentary, Get Back, music fans have been re-examining the Fab Four’s body of work, achievements, and impact. And rightly so — the group absolutely set standards for what achievement and excellence in popular music could look like. But, what if you found out that there was another group who achieved twelve No. 1 singles, who knocked The Beatles out of the No. 1 spot on the Billboard 100 not once but three times; who appeared on the Ed Sullivan show eleven times to the Liverpudlians’ three visits; who released 20 albums between the years 1962 and 1970, and who toured and performed long after The Beatles retired from live concerts in 1966?

That group was none other than The Supremes, the Motown trio consisting of Diana Ross, Mary Wilson, and Florence Ballard. And yet, these women haven’t received half the accolades and hero worship that is attached to The Beatles. That’s because the primacy of the Fab Four as the platonic ideal of serious musicians worthy of study and consideration is deeply entrenched and unquestioned. But The Supremes made history, broke records, and set standards at a level that deserves the same level of regard.


Read the full article here

https://uproxx.com/music/the-supremes-the-beatles/

[PeaceNHarmony]

Well ... they don't, simply because the Supremes did not compose a passel of classic songs that continue to get played and newly-recorded 60 years later. For the record [[no pun), I like the Supremes more that I like the Beatles, but the Supremes were performers alone.

[nomis]

Apples and oranges..while the Beatles stayed in the lane of pop and rock the supremes were way more versatile and could effortlessly switch genres [["Paul and John sing and perform funny girl"anyone ? )...and for all of the fab fours cultural impact they didn't tear down racial barriers the way the supremes did.

[RanRan79]

Race, gender, and music snobbery are the three things that spring to my mind when I think about this issue. I am not a fan of the Beatles beyond their gift as songwriters, so the Supremes will always rate higher with me. [[Interestingly, I watched Ferris Bueller last weekend for the first time in a long time and I have to admit that I enjoyed "Twist and Shout". Now was that because of the Beatles or because of the infectious atmosphere that Ferris created in the parade? Probably the latter.) The Beatles run was tremendous. They were an English band that took America by storm. The Supremes, however, were an American group that took America by storm. That they aren't uplifted at every turn here at home is a travesty.

Race
Many Black artists from that time just don't get the reverence they deserve, for whatever the reasons. No doubt in my mind if the Supremes had been three white girls from the trailer parks of Tornado Alley or three white girls from an affluent northern suburb, having accomplished everything the Supremes did, an article like this one would not have been needed.

Gender
Like race, gender plays it's part. The accomplishments of men in the industry are often held to a higher esteem. Case in point: the lack of women in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, approximately 8 percent. [[Note: as far as I can tell, the first six women to be inducted into the RRHOF have all been Black. Go figure.) Three chicks in sequins and high heels, moving in unison, for some reason doesn't seem to be as serious as guys with guitars and drumsticks.

Also, IMO there's an element of misogyny that plays out in two ways. One was spotlighted in the article, that the Supremes were run by a male dominated machine, and the appearance is that the girls just showed up and sang, the men did all the heavy lifting. Another is the drama that often surrounds the group and the members' relationships with one another. The image of three catty, drama queens, having hair pulling fights between "baby, baby"'s and "oohs" and "ahhs" contributes to the idea that the Supremes shouldn't be taken as seriously as they should. Of course the image of guys in a band beating the crap out of each other for any reason would never reflect poorly on their skills as musicians and singers. After all, isn't that what guys do? And you can't forget the side eyes on account of Diana having a sexual relationship with Gordy. For some, she accomplished what she did on her back, and by extension, that's how the Supremes became successful. It's easy to write them off when you think that way.

Snobbery
The writer of the article was spot on with the ridiculously disrespectful notion that performers who interpret the lyrics of others are somehow less artists than those who write their own material. Bullshit. I cannot stress how much of this mentality I find to be absolute utter bullshit. Being musically inclined is a gift, whether as a songwriter, musician or vocalist, or a combo of any of these, and also a skill. As Nomis points out, the Beatles with all of their talent could've never pulled off the Funny Girl album. No, none of the Supremes ever sat down, composed songs and had those songs recorded [[Flo says she wrote one once that everybody but Gordy thought was good, and Diana later "wrote" a few as well during her solo career). They didn't produce their work either. But they sang the shit out of what they were handed. Diana's interpretation skills were off the charts, and Flo and Mary's ability to figure out how to meld their individual talents to compliment Diana's lead, HDH's [[and other writers) lyrics, and the band were impressive, to say the least. Their stage show was one of the hottest in town, mostly because of how well the ladies handled the material they were given, both r&b/pop as well as other genres.

The cultural impact that the Supremes had should be enough to make certain that the group's name, their music, their story, is always front page news. I think if this is ever to happen, it'll have to be sooner rather than later, and maybe Diana is the only one who can make the push at this point.

[nomis]

Great post RanRan you summed up how I feel about these ladies

[Ollie9]

Wouldn’t Paul McCartney have sounded rather daft singing “Funny Girl”. I think the groups instincts were spot on in staying away.

[carlo]

Totally agree with the opinions being expressed here, in regards to the lack of accolades and respect given to The Supremes vs The Beatles. It really does come down to race and sexism. I can't tell you how many times I would go into a music store as a kid, during the late 90's and early to mid 00's and get a snicker or eyebrow raised by a music store employee, in response to asking for music by The Supremes. Many school mates and family members also poked fun at me plenty, over the years, due to the mere fact that they knew I was a fan of Ross and The Supremes. It was just 'not cool' to be a fan of three glamorous black ladies, especially if you're a guy. I do feel that general attitudes have changed a bit in recent years, albeit a bit too late.

I also agree that part of it is because they did not write their own music, so they are looked upon as being inferior, or that this somehow equates them to being a 'pop creation'. To those who believe that The Supremes don't deserve the same respect as The Beatles due to their lack of songwriting credits, then I would ask them to tell me if they see Holland-Dozier-Holland being given the same widespread accolades and recognition as Lennon and McCartney. The answer to that is no. The reason for that, in my opinion, comes back to racism.

[Ollie9]

I guess if the same question was posted on a Beatles fan site, they would unquestionably come out on top.
The fact they wrote their own songs, played their own instruments goes a hell of a long way. We must also remember that all four enjoyed very successful solo careers which adds to their longevity.
My personally opinion is that the Supremes most certainly deserve the same respect as the Beatles. Their track record of hit records speaks for itself, so more for cultural reasons. They were fundamental in helping to break down racist barriers, paving the way for black performers of the future. That goes along way in my book.

[1382hitsville]

First: I agree completely with Ran and Carlo.
Second: I stopped reading the article, who is Barry Gordy?

[smallworld]

Someone in the ABBA vs. Diana Ross thread pointed out that ABBA came, they conquered and they went away. A similar point could be made about the Beatles. The Supremes and Diana Ross stayed too long at the fair.

[144man]

If only Holland-Dozier-Holland hadn't existed so that the Supremes could have had the chance to write their own material. Scherrie has written some strong songs.

[floyjoy678]

Someone in the ABBA vs. Diana Ross thread pointed out that ABBA came, they conquered and they went away. A similar point could be made about the Beatles. The Supremes and Diana Ross stayed too long at the fair.

This. And also they evolved into a supperclub act and stopped evolving after 1966. They probably should have called it a quits after Flo's firing.

[Ollie9]

This. And also they evolved into a supperclub act and stopped evolving after 1966. They probably should have called it a quits after Flo's firing.

That would have meant no “”Reflections”, Love Child”, I’m Gonna Make You Love Me”, “Someday” or TCB special. Not to mention their iconic tv tribute performances to Fats Waller, Berlin etc etc.
I think Diana’s departure was timed perfectly.

[floyjoy678]

That would have meant no “”Reflections”, Love Child”, I’m Gonna Make You Love Me”, “Someday” or TCB special. Not to mention their iconic tv tribute performances to Fats Waller, Berlin etc etc.
I think Diana’s departure was timed perfectly.

In an alternate universe I think "Reflections" would have made a great swan song for the Supremes.

[RanRan79]

Someone in the ABBA vs. Diana Ross thread pointed out that ABBA came, they conquered and they went away. A similar point could be made about the Beatles. The Supremes and Diana Ross stayed too long at the fair.

That makes no sense to me. I understand the conversation that could be had about how long the group stuck around [[don't understand the reference to Diana though) and the debate on when it may have been a good time to call it quits. But it seems strange to me that the 70s Supremes could have such an effect on the 60s Supremes' legacy.

[RanRan79]

That would have meant no “”Reflections”, Love Child”, I’m Gonna Make You Love Me”, “Someday” or TCB special. Not to mention their iconic tv tribute performances to Fats Waller, Berlin etc etc.
I think Diana’s departure was timed perfectly.

DRATS was no original Supremes in my book, but it did progress the group's legacy. All four of the songs you mention are iconic. And the TCB special was historic. And Diana needed those years to perfect her magic. I agree, her exit had perfect timing.

[RanRan79]

In an alternate universe I think "Reflections" would have made a great swan song for the Supremes.

In an alternate universe, I agree.

In reality, "Someday We'll Be Together" was perfect. And truth be told, "Let Yourself Go" also seems an appropriate exit single for the entire group.

[Ollie9]

Race
Many Black artists from that time just don't get the reverence they deserve, for whatever the reasons. No doubt in my mind if the Supremes had been three white girls from the trailer parks of Tornado Alley or three white girls from an affluent northern suburb, having accomplished everything the Supremes did, an article like this one would not have been needed.

Gender
Like race, gender plays it's part. The accomplishments of men in the industry are often held to a higher esteem. Case in point: the lack of women in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, approximately 8 percent. [[Note: as far as I can tell, the first six women to be inducted into the RRHOF have all been Black. Go figure.) Three chicks in sequins and high heels, moving in unison, for some reason doesn't seem to be as serious as guys with guitars and drumsticks.



The cultural impact that the Supremes had should be enough to make certain that the group's name, their music, their story, is always front page news. I think if this is ever to happen, it'll have to be sooner rather than later, and maybe Diana is the only one who can make the push at this point.

The only way that is ever likely to happen is if a major film were made on the life and times of the Supremes. Not the fluff of “Dream Girls”, But a realistic, gritty musical drama that highlights the segregation and cultural boundaries the group was forced to overcome.

[RanRan79]

The only way that is ever likely to happen is if a major film were made on the life and times of the Supremes. Not the fluff of “Dream Girls”, But a realistic, gritty musical drama that highlights the segregation and cultural boundaries the group was forced to overcome.

Perhaps. It would have to be well done and balanced. I think the one fear all of us Supremes fans have in common is that if a movie about the actual Supremes ever gets made, it will be heavily one sided, depending on the "side" the filmmaker has taken. And with Diana the last remaining of the original trio, it'll be easier for that side to shift towards her.

[Ollie9]

Perhaps. It would have to be well done and balanced. I think the one fear all of us Supremes fans have in common is that if a movie about the actual Supremes ever gets made, it will be heavily one sided, depending on the "side" the filmmaker has taken. And with Diana the last remaining of the original trio, it'll be easier for that side to shift towards her.

It would definitely have to be unbiased.. I think “Dream Girls” [Supremes] already showed Diana in a very favourable light....... “But I don’t want to be lead singer Curtis”

[PeaceNHarmony]

I only wish that they were and would have truly lavish archival releases on a par with those of the Beatles, group and solo.