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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post

    stay tuned for the grand finale of this expose!.
    Hey Tom wouldn't it be great if Billy Griffin chose to show up and spill the beans about this song ! Why not?? What's he got to lose at this point in his life ? It's actually significant Gay history, if we've got it right. And the renewed interest in it by talking about it could garner $$ for him. He's a credited author.

    shall we break it down?
    the line:

    When I look in your eyes
    My meter starts to rise, I become so confused


    Keep in mind this is coming from someone boasting to be "a love machine".

    A straight guy about to be "a love machine" is not confused when looking into a woman's eyes his meter rises, in fact everything is going as needed.
    Now a guy [new to LA in this story line] finds looking into a guy's eyes makes his meter go twang , he might find himself 'becoming confused' by this !!

    Some more to ponder:

    on this clip we can see the label for the disco promo only that came out for the clubs:



    Odd word choice "THE FULL UNEDITED VERSION OF"

    Most Disco 12" used words like 'Long Version' or 'Disco Version'. This one could just read "THE FULL VERSION OF" but the word unedited has been included. For starters the 45 version isn't edited in that its been sliced and diced... it just fades out at a certain point within the full version. By doing so it does seem to be editing out a certain aspect of the recording. 'Unedited' is almost another word for 'uncensored'.
    Strikes me they are trying to call attention to the long version's special content for the gay clubs* especially that might then want to play it ,
    OK, now you really are reading more into this than there actually is. All that means is that it's the long version and not the edited single version. Geez!

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    OK, now you really are reading more into this than there actually is. All that means is that it's the long version and not the edited single version. Geez!
    maybe so................ and then again..... maybe no, that may not be "all that means".
    Its a dog whistle.

    I'm putting together the pieces for the sum total.

    Can you name any other 12" of the thousands pressed in the disco era that is labeled this way??

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    That is the same song as the 12" by Donna Summer on the "Thank God It's Friday" soundtrack, isn't it? I never heard the original before now. I never played the 12" that came with "Friday." It seemed to just be a rehash of "Love to Love You Baby" and was much too long in my [[then) humble opinion. It made a nice package but I don't recall anyone ever playing it on the radio, though I was too young for the clubs at the time and perhaps it got some exposure there though it would have had to compete with "Last Dance" which of course was the big song from the film.
    Yes same song. I agree with your assessment , too long and too mundane. Not convincing.
    A reluctant Donna Summer got cajoled into doing a cover of this as it seemed an obvious fit for her as the queen of sexual moaning. It didn't resonate and got tacked onto the THANK GOD ITS FRIDAY ST [not used in the film] as a proclaimed bonus track, an entire platter pressed for this with nothing on the flip! stuffed into the ST packaging that was then set aside by club DJs...




    Also a part of the ohhs and ahhhs fest, The Moments with SEXY MAMA in 1974:



    and while this like LOVE MACHINE is absent any accompanying female responses, the lyrics and the title make it clear who's involved here.
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 04-14-2022 at 10:19 AM.

  4. #54
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    I have a feeling this is more the Freddie Perren preferred version as opposed to the more Billy Griffin infused one...

    ...still got some of the busyness in the middle but by the 4:30 its gone and Perren's arranging hits full stride and the groove shines uninfluenced by love for over three minutes.


    also wish the strings heard here had been left in in the first part for the final version.


    This an earlier version from song's developmental stage?

    More 'disco', less edgy





    this one lays it out pretty clearly ....love to love ya baby !

    Last edited by Boogiedown; 04-17-2022 at 11:20 PM.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    This an earlier version from song's developmental stage?

    More 'disco', less edgy
    Hey Boogie, I think this might be some sort of re-recording… the backing track is quite similar but the lead vocal doesn't sound like Billy Griffin to me.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomatoTom123 View Post
    Hey Boogie, I think this might be some sort of re-recording… the backing track is quite similar but the lead vocal doesn't sound like Billy Griffin to me.
    It might be a re-recording done by a latter-day edition of the group. I know they did a remake in the 90s for Motorcity Records but I don't believe this is that one.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomatoTom123 View Post
    Hey Boogie, I think this might be some sort of re-recording… the backing track is quite similar but the lead vocal doesn't sound like Billy Griffin to me.
    ah ok ... good call. ..yes not Billy at all ...
    here it is again :


    with this info:

    Provided to YouTube by The Orchard Enterprises Love Machine [[Re-Recorded) ·

    The Miracles Disco Inferno ℗ 2008 Goldenlane Records
    Released on: 2008-07-01

    a re-recording as you and reese say. no matter as its not really relevant to the issue at hand ....just stumbled upon it
    .


    also , while I'm at it , The Moments' SEXY MAMA mentioned previously was on Stang Records one of Sylvia Robinson's many labels and she had a big hand in that single which was preceded by her own :

    Last edited by Boogiedown; 04-18-2022 at 12:55 AM.

  8. #58
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    Already mentioned as the culprit in getting this whole thing started, the French with Je t'aime... moi non plus

    Might've just left it there, but noooo , along come the Belgians with Jungle Fever in 1971, revving it all up again:



    wiki ---"Jungle Fever" was banned by the BBC, who took exception to the song's heavy breathing and moaning
    This is a wild rowdy interview by Don Cornelius especially with the touchy subject matter.
    Notice Billly Griffin pointing out Pete Moore when trying to figure out who's who when it comes to what's what ....




    flirting with disaster here

  9. #59
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    The more I delve, the more I'm finding this quite an interesting saga in the Motown story. Who would've thought the back-up group , The Miracles minus their super-leader could stage such a comeback without him [ this as Smokey himself struggles]...its almost well ...a miracle. Even Don Cornelius seems stunned by the implausibility as he says to them, '''finally got a hit!'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post



    This is a wild rowdy interview by Don Cornelius especially with the touchy subject matter.
    Notice Billly Griffin pointing out Pete Moore when trying to figure out who's who when it comes to what's what ....



    The interview starts at 2:30. The crowd is unusually chatty and Don comes on lit right away. Seems comfortable around them and wastes no time with formalities, maybe this taping takes place on a day after a night at the Playboy mansion ...
    Don greets each, but notice he stops short of shaking Billy's hand and Billy calls him on it. A bit later Don takes a dig at him , saying he's amazed he had written the LP.... "I didn't know that boy could write his name!" Billy just smiles and takes it on the chin, but would love to know what he was thinking at the moment ,...I can guess....
    Not sure why Ronnie feels the need to go out of his way to bring up AINT NOBODY STRAIGHT IN LA, Don wasn't going to, and the tune isn't being released as a single and they aren't working it, nor performing it that day. Maybe he felt he was in friendly company there with The Soul Train Gang being heavily populated with gay guys who would therefore be aware of their song and he wanted to connect with them about it?? This could be.
    Otherwise why does he want to talk about this particular cut ...instead, for instance why not the one about smog??After all , as soulster says:

    "The album is not about homosexuality. It is not front and center. Just because they put one song on it called "Ain's Nobody Straight In L.A." does not mean that it's what the album is about." ..

    ...
    yet there's Ronnie purposely bringing it up....and as Don says, just as the interview is otherwise ending.
    But focusing on ANSILA doesn't go well and bringing up the tune and explaining it leads to Don jokingly accusing them of being a bunch of .... "except for me and Bill"....odd he singles out Billy as the exception to the accusation....

    I've never seen anything quite like it.....on Soul train or elsewhere....


    As for the LP, CITY OF ANGELS:

    soulster:
    About the album: it's excellent,
    Do you listen to it Soulster??

    How about others here? Is this LP held in high regard?? A favorite?
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 04-29-2022 at 03:04 PM.

  10. #60
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    What a bizarre interview! I’ve watched several other Soul Train interviews before, none of them like that. They're normally much more, erm, professionally done…

    It’s seems to me that Ronnie's main point is that it was just Billy and Pete who wrote "Ain’t Nobody Straight In LA". It’s probably an attempt at banter [LOL] implying that the songwriters are the ‘gay’ ones. Yet why bring it up at all!? [It makes things quite awkward!!]

    How curious!
    Last edited by TomatoTom123; 04-29-2022 at 08:02 PM.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomatoTom123 View Post
    What a bizarre interview! I’ve watched several other Soul Train interviews before, none of them like that. They're normally much more, erm, professionally done…

    It’s seems to me that Ronnie's main point is that it was just Billy and Pete who wrote "Ain’t Nobody Straight In LA". It’s probably an attempt at banter [LOL] implying that the song's writers are the ‘gay’ ones. Yet why bring it up at all!!? Very odd.

    It does become quite awkward by the end!
    Ahhh YES, I think you've got it figured out. I couldn't understand why Ronnie White went out of his way with insisting on bringing up the song ....but watching it again, you're right I think, he wanted to make it clear that it was those two who wrote the song and he had nothing to with it. [he's so detached, he had to ask them for help in getting the title right] Good job Tom!


    I also can't recall seeing Don being quite like this in other interviews, what's the word?, aggressive?? And I'm still trying to understand the noisiness of the crowd. I can't recall that noisiness either at other times..

    Don appears most connected to Bobby Rogers. They seem to perhaps know each other well. Maybe the TWO of them were at the Playboy mansion the night before [!], Rogers is recently divorced at this time [ just having some fun here with that notion]. The ugly glasses comment is a funny one, as they are wearing the same style.



    So Tom, is this a "go to" LP for you?? This dreamy romantic tune being sung to LA does it do it for you?



    City of angels you have faults in your land
    People say you'll crumble and your beauty will no longer stand
    Oh I love you L.A. [[City of angels)
    Please don't go away [[Please don't go away)
    [[Please don't go away)
    Will you fall into the sea? [[Will you fall into the sea?)
    And forsake me

    Will you disappear from the earth just like Atlantis did?
    Each and every night I'll say a prayer for heaven to forbid
    I could never live without you my salvation I would give to you
    If you stay [[please stay) don't go away [[don't go away)

    .... And Don doubts Billy's songwriting skills!

    Billy seems more emotionally concerned about LA checking out on him than his suicidal girlfriend he supposedly followed there.


    Notice too the female vocal back up that was brought in and heard clearly on this song ....
    so, why are they absent when it comes to LOVE MACHINE?

    We gotta take a closer look at the AINT NOBODY STRAIGHT cut.... any thoughts?


    And, there's an interview with Billy Griffin I've come upon, of which some of it strikes me as a bit odd concerning his recollections. I'll listen again to it before posting about it.
    .
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 05-02-2022 at 01:52 AM.

  12. #62
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    You’re right about Don being quite, erm, aggressive. It’s like he’s really trying to force some some of back and forth. The mention of "Ain’t Nobody Straight" really tops the whole thing off, LOL

    As for the audience noise, I don’t know if it's just a technical thing [error?], but I’ve not heard it on any other Soul Train interview before either.

  13. #63
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    With the album itself, I'm only really familiar with "Love Machine" and "Ain’t Nobody Straight In L.A.". There was another cut that I quite liked on the LP… I think it was "Night Life". The rest of it… I have no idea, LOL.

    What about you?

    P.S. Just listened to "City Of Angels"... interesting. Quite nice, but quite different from "Love Machine". Reminds me of The Four Tops' "L.A. [My Town]", although much slower.

    P.S.S. Just listened to "Night Life" and it was indeed my next favourite cut! Much more in the "Love Machine" vein and has an awesome vibes solo. And I have to say… the narrator seems to be enjoying all the L.A. night life… which is interesting, as according to "ANSIL" there "ain’t nothing but gay bars in Los Angeles…!"
    Last edited by TomatoTom123; 04-30-2022 at 08:02 PM.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomatoTom123 View Post
    With the album itself, I'm only really familiar with "Love Machine" and "Ain’t Nobody Straight In L.A.". There was another cut that I quite liked on the LP… I think it was "Night Life". The rest of it… I have no idea, LOL.

    What about you?

    P.S. Just listened to "City Of Angels"... interesting. Quite nice, but quite different from "Love Machine". Reminds me of The Four Tops' "L.A. [My Town]", although much slower.

    P.S.S. Just listened to "Night Life" and it was indeed my next favourite cut! Much more in the "Love Machine" vein and has an awesome vibes solo. And I have to say… the narrator seems to be enjoying all the L.A. night life… which is interesting, as according to "ANSIL" there "ain’t nothing but gay bars in Los Angeles…!"
    I find the whole CITY OF ANGELS album worthy of a focused discussion and I was tempted to start a thread on it specifically, but its hard enough keeping up with this one, much less managing two, so lets just press forward here shall we ...

    Looks like we've lost soulster's interest, oh well we'll still use his comments to further the discussion. Like his assertion that this is a great album. Is it?

    Can't seem to find any defenders [?] of the CITY OF ANGELS LP as being some sort of monumental artistic masterpiece, although it at least demonstrates some sense of ambition within a group that was otherwise submerging.

    So Tom, lets give NIGHTLIFE a play before we move on to the LP's major attraction but also kept hidden, the showpiece, AIN'T NOBODY STRAIGHT...

    Yes it is a lot of LOVE MACHINE revisited in its arrangement and yes includes nice vibes. When I listen at 3:30 it is apparent to me that Freddie Perren was determined to not let weak lyrics get in the way of his abilities.



    more from the heartbroken narrator with the suicidal girlfriend:

    And you can bet that is where you'll run into the hippest chicks.
    And if your intentions are to get a chick to share a lovely evening spent
    There are several head shops that carry a variety of incense [
    aka poppers]

    And I suspect Freddie didn't ask permission to go it alone to start the LP off:



    A lot of nerve using this instrumental as an opening cut on an LP by a vocal group ! Who did Freddie think he was, Norman Whitfield!



    to chew on:
    this is a conceptual album about the LA experience of the early/mid 70's, as background to those days think War, Santana, and Cheech and Chong.

    Yet there is only one cut on this LA themed album that taps into the Hispanic vibe, that is latin tinged in its flavor ...that also has some Spanish phrases tossed in ... most odd that the chosen title for this element is in of all cuts: AIN'T NOBODY STRAIGHT IN LA ......why oh why .....??? hmmmm
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 05-20-2022 at 01:44 AM.

  15. #65
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    I agree Boogie, it’s definitely an interesting LP… possibly the only real concept album in the Miracles catalogue…?

    I think I’ve listened to all of the tracks on the album at one point or another. I don’t recall being absolutely blown away, but maybe I need to sit down and listen to the whole thing in one go.

    "Overture" is a cool track actually. Sounds quite like a theme song from a blaxploitation film, although a bit more ‘polished’.

    As for "ANSIL", I really don’t know why the group chose to tackle homosexuality as a part of the L.A. theme, and with Latin flavours mixed in too! They do go about it in a strange way, almost comical [“bisexuals on a loving spree” always gets me.] But it does end on agreement that "gay people are nice people too", which is at least a positive if not particularly substantive message. LOL
    Last edited by TomatoTom123; 05-19-2022 at 09:28 PM.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomatoTom123 View Post
    I agree Boogie, it’s definitely an interesting LP… possibly the only real concept album in the Miracles catalogue…? define "real"

    I think I’ve listened to all of the tracks on the album at one point or another. I don’t recall being absolutely blown away, but maybe I need to sit down and listen to the whole thing in one go. yes SMOG alone is worth the visit ....or is it SMOG that absolutely needs to get blown away

    "Overture" is a cool track actually. Sounds quite like a theme song from a blaxploitation film, although a bit more ‘polished’. yes Tom! music for a bisexual-blacksploitation themed movie, perfect! Given how lucrative the current movie/TV soundtrack writing opportunities had become , I wouldn't be surprised if this little offering by Freddie Perren wasn't a clever way for him to audition his talents ..

    As for "ANSIL", I really don’t know why the group chose to tackle homosexuality as a part of the L.A. theme, and with Latin flavours mixed in too! OK so why the latin tinge on this homosexual topic ?? Billy gives us the reason in his lyrics ...can you spot it??
    They do go about it in a strange way, almost comical [“bisexuals on a loving spree” always gets me.] hee haw !!! But it does end on agreement that "gay people are nice people too", yes nice, or then again other times not , just witness some behavior on the DRATS forum !! which is at least a positive if not particularly substantive message. LOL for such a bold record and it REALLY WAS , it actually says very little ....
    We have to listen to the dreamy and wistful SMOG :



    I wish the smog would drift awayyyy ,....to stayyy!

    LYRICS for AINT NOBODY :



    Ain't nobody straight in L.A
    It seems that everybody is gay
    Homosexuality is a part of society
    I guess that they need some more variety
    Freedom of expression is really the thing

    Bisexuales es un grupo amoroso
    Bisexuals on a loving spree

    Homosexuality is a part of society
    Well, I guess that they need some more variety
    Freedom of expression is really the thing

    Ain't nobody straight in L.A
    [[Ain't nobody in L.A. straight)
    It seems that everybody is gay
    Oooh oooh, oooh oooh,
    Oooh, oooh, oooh, oooh

    "Hey, man, check that out."
    Ain't nobody straight in L.A
    It seems that everybody is gay

    "Hey, man, let's ride out"
    "Yeah c'mon, man!"
    "I mean that's cool with me, uh, where we gon' go?"
    "Hey, man, I know where a real hip place is on Sunset Boulevard and there's another place on La Cienega that's really..."
    "Nah, nah, I saw that place on Hollywood Boulevard..."
    "Hey, wait a minute, wait a minute, Bill, that place you took me the other night..."
    "Yeah?"
    "Hey, but wait a minute, man, that's a gay bar"
    "Hey, man, ain't nothing but gay bars in Los Angeles"
    "Yeah, Bill, that might be true though, but, uh... You know some of the finest women are in the gay bar"
    "Hey, but dig, Bob, how do you know they women?"
    "Well... uh... Hey, man, look, well, look, gay people are nice people too, man"
    "Yeah, let's go, man. Let's go, man"


    https://www.rockol.com/uk/lyrics-947...straight-in-la
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 05-24-2022 at 01:37 AM.

  17. #67
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    Ha! Well Boogie, I guess the group's 1969 album What Love Has… Joined Together was a concept album of sorts… featuring six famous love songs quite distinctly reimagined!!!

    I just listened to "Smog"… uhhhh… not a massive fan. I find the song itself quite dreary . It does have an interesting and worthwhile message though!! And, a very early mention of electric cars in the lyrics!

    I can’t figure out why there are Latin flavours are in ANSIL, other than for stylistic reasons. [is it something to do with "bisexuales es un grupo amoroso"?]

    P.S. I'd watch a Miracles-soundtracked bisexual-blaxploitation themed movie. LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    My conclusion:
    Absolutely Yes.

    But I'll let you ponder it over before I make my case.

    For starters, listen throughout but especially starting @ 5:10 thru 5:50:

    Sounds delightful to me. Nothing wrong with a little Masc 4 Masc action.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    Sounds delightful to me. Nothing wrong with a little Masc 4 Masc action.


    MB, thanks for bringing the link to the song of focus forward !!

    How do you think the Masc 4 Masc action would have been received if Motown had let it be included on the released 45??

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    Hi Tom I didn't forget you ! Or this topic! ... sorry for the delay, it just got issued to the back burner for a bit. There's still plenty to discuss!! .... if you're game ....


    Quote Originally Posted by TomatoTom123 View Post
    Ha! Well Boogie, I guess the group's 1969 album What Love Has… Joined Together was a concept album of sorts… featuring six famous love songs quite distinctly reimagined!!!
    ah , ok
    I just listened to "Smog"… uhhhh… not a massive fan. I find the song itself quite dreary . and likely written in under ten minutes ...It does have an interesting and worthwhile message though!! And, a very early mention of electric cars in the lyrics!
    Ha, true and proof you actually did listen !!
    I can’t figure out why there are Latin flavours are in ANSIL, other than for stylistic reasons. Yes, a song with latin flavoring could've held up very well completely on its own as part of this LA concept, and it should've been its own featured cut on the LP, but - it gets used instead only within the gay themed song .... [is it something to do with "bisexuales es un grupo amoroso"?]
    so, in Billy's lyrics you'll find the line "I guess they need some variety" ....what do you make of that?? Lets see if we agree...

    P.S. I'd watch a Miracles-soundtracked bisexual-blaxploitation themed movie. hee haw LOL
    OK, there's something more here about this entire narrative, when we back up a bit, and read about The Miracles in wikipedia ....it is asserted that the group interviewed extensively before deciding on Smokey's replacement ...

    After auditioning some 60 hopefuls,[2] the group decided on Billy Griffin, a native of Baltimore, Maryland. In the 2006 Miracles DVD release The Definitive Performances [[1963-1987), Miracles Pete Moore & Bobby Rogers, commented that the group decided on Billy because, in addition to being a great singer, he also demonstrated "some writing ability"

    But this doesn't play out. Billy Griffin has no prior writing history. Once he joins the group he doesn't write even one cut for any of the first three albums by them. Three albums and not one song. Their first album with Griffin singing, called RENAISSANCE, was a mish-mash of a variety of production and writing. Freddy Perren then takes charge for the second album, still a writing mish-mash of tunes from various sources, and they have a hit with the title cut, DO IT BABY, which was written by Perren and his wife.
    Then something weird happens, bolstered I guess by the moderate success of DO IT BABY, Perren and HIS WIFE write the entirety of the third album featuring Griffin's leads, which then is a complete bomb. Titled DONCHA LOVE IT , I guess no one did, and the album is not even written about in wiki.

    Next comes album four, the CITY OF ANGELS album where Freddie, and the now vanished wife, go from writing everything to writing none of the songs, and Griffin and Moore suddenly write everything, but! Perren is still around and produces all of them [due to contract obligations?], giving these lame songs some credence by the embellishment of his arrangement skills.


    What do I make of this?....hmmmm...
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 06-26-2022 at 04:44 PM.

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    Oh Boogie, you’re like a goldmine of new Miracles info! I don’t know what to make of that at all. Perhaps Billy didn’t feel confident in his writing abilities until album number 4.

    It’s interesting that one of the first things Billy wrote was "Ain't Nobody Straight In L.A.". I wonder if Billy was [is] LGBT himself, or had some personal connection to the cause?

  22. #72
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    Also, I’m not sure what to make of the line "I guess that they need some more variety"… other than it makes me laugh… like it’s some sort of sex pick ‘n’ mix !

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