Mary Wilson Son if a Preacher’s Man

[blackguy69]

better than the bootleg copy

[copley]

It's horrible! Lacks any soul or emotion. I do agree that it's better than the old bootleg but then anything would be!

[TheMotownManiac]

It's horrible! Lacks any soul or emotion. I do agree that it's better than the old bootleg but then anything would be!

it is better than the terrible copy I had, I had several but most of them were so bad I can’t tell if they were different or not I did have a good one or a better one but I think this is a better take. Either way, I think it shows a versatility and a niche that might’ve been able to be exploited. It’s true that Mary had trouble connecting emotion into her voice sometimes back in the day, but she conquered that of course. Again I have to say if anyone is even thinking of getting this anthology, you will not be disappointed!

[blackguy69]

Pretty harsh seeing that this wasn’t a finished product.

It's horrible! Lacks any soul or emotion. I do agree that it's better than the old bootleg but then anything would be!

[captainjames]

I don't have the booklet yet, only released songs as ITUNES does it. Any idea as to when this song was recorded ?

[thanxal]

Pretty harsh seeing that this wasn’t a finished product.

Yep. This is precisely why many artists hate having unreleased material released.

[Circa 1824]

It was better than I thought, but that is not saying much.

[reese]

I don't have the booklet yet, only released songs as ITUNES does it. Any idea as to when this song was recorded ?

Mary's vocal was recorded on 9/29/69.

[captainjames]

Mary's vocal was recorded on 9/29/69.

Thanks - that gives me a good idea on the background vocals.

[reese]

Thanks - that gives me a good idea on the background vocals.

More info: the backing track was recorded 1/24/69; horns added 1/28/69. There was also a note: "Additional sessions in 1970 unknown."

Produced by the Clan.

[sup_fan]

i had heard one of the bootlegs and found it pretty lacking. even downloaded one of the bootlegs and have been meaning to listen to the side by side.

this released version i'm quite pleased with. Agree that sometimes Mary seemed to have difficulties connection emotion to her vocals. often they just came across rather sterile. but i found this one to be quite pleasant. not her best ever but better than some.

i struggled though when "playing producer" - meaning if i was going to be a producer of one of the 70s lps, where would i have put this? it's a bit too low key for Right On, not rocking enough for NW and not sophisticated enough for Touch. haven't really though much about the PK idea - many of the Jean songs we've received over the years are frankly not the most inspired either. so i might have to consider that one

I do like If You Let Me and that might have worked on RO. been nice to have given Mary a full lead on the album

[jim aka jtigre99]

I personally like it. I think Mary definitely had a Dusty Springfield quality to her voice. Listening to the Anthology, her voice was strong in the early years, seemed less commanding after her years in the background in the 60's but as she had more leads grew very strong and emotional in the 1970's. I love this Anthology and love Mary's voice. She has such a warm quality to her voice and vocals.

[Thornton]

I like this song a lot. If they could have gotten it wrapped up when Mary recorded the lead in September, it would have been a great addition to 'Cream of the Crop'. 'If You Let Me' would have been the perfect song to kick off the b-side of 'Right On'.

[RanRan79]

I have to wait for the Amazon release, so I don't really want to be "spoiled" by the opportunity of listening to what is on the anthology, but I had to give this one a listen. Honestly it's ten times better than I expected. When it was posted in it's bootleg version, I didn't get to hear it but the comments were brutal. The reaction to this version is comparatively better, but I still expected to be disappointed as I prefer Mary's ballad style. Mary handled this lead exactly as she should have, with a couple of imperfections here and there. She sounds pretty damn good to my ears. Would this ever be a Supremes song I'd specifically play? No, but I also tend not to be a fan of Mary's upbeat leads until the Scherrie years. Anyway, I think she sounds better on "Preacher Man" than she does on "Come and Get These Memories", although still not as nice as her "Davy Crockett" lead, IMO.

[RanRan79]

Listening to the Anthology, her voice was strong in the early years, seemed less commanding after her years in the background in the 60's but as she had more leads grew very strong and emotional in the 1970's.

That's similar to how I've always viewed Mary's progression as a vocalist. Those early years she had raw talent. In fact IMO I think Mary might have been the ticket to success in that early period if the group was going to follow typical girl group fare of the era. Her leads during the early 60s were very good. The mid 60s is when her voice is on this rollercoaster of good lead singing to bad lead singing, depending on the type of song. She does a lovely rendition of "Our Day Will Come" but then sounds ridiculous on "Enjoy Yourself". I still feel giving Mary the lead to "Come and Get These Memories" was an absolute wrong move. Nothing about that arrangement fits her talents at all. Would've been much better in the hands of Diana or Florence. But when she takes a verse on "People", it makes me believe Mary would've been a much better choice for the entire song, as opposed to Florence. Mary's verse on "Falling In Love With Love" fit her rather nicely. "Davy Crockett" was also a pleasant surprise. The studio version of "Can't Take My Eyes Off of You" is also rather nice, if a bit unremarkable, but the live versions IMO don't show off Mary's chops very well until the Japan live album, which Mary nailed.

In the 70s I think Mary was paired fittingly with the songs she was given to lead in the studio, which probably helped her progression as a vocalist, than if she had been given a bunch of songs that just didn't fit her style or were out of her range. Of course this is my opinion before hearing the unreleased leads on the Anthology, sans "Preacher Man".

[after you]

The first part was not bad the ending was horrible they could’ve left that part out I never want to hear it again hopefully the rest of the album will be OK

[sup_fan]

That's similar to how I've always viewed Mary's progression as a vocalist. Those early years she had raw talent. In fact IMO I think Mary might have been the ticket to success in that early period if the group was going to follow typical girl group fare of the era. Her leads during the early 60s were very good. The mid 60s is when her voice is on this rollercoaster of good lead singing to bad lead singing, depending on the type of song. She does a lovely rendition of "Our Day Will Come" but then sounds ridiculous on "Enjoy Yourself". I still feel giving Mary the lead to "Come and Get These Memories" was an absolute wrong move. Nothing about that arrangement fits her talents at all. Would've been much better in the hands of Diana or Florence. But when she takes a verse on "People", it makes me believe Mary would've been a much better choice for the entire song, as opposed to Florence. Mary's verse on "Falling In Love With Love" fit her rather nicely. "Davy Crockett" was also a pleasant surprise. The studio version of "Can't Take My Eyes Off of You" is also rather nice, if a bit unremarkable, but the live versions IMO don't show off Mary's chops very well until the Japan live album, which Mary nailed.

In the 70s I think Mary was paired fittingly with the songs she was given to lead in the studio, which probably helped her progression as a vocalist, than if she had been given a bunch of songs that just didn't fit her style or were out of her range. Of course this is my opinion before hearing the unreleased leads on the Anthology, sans "Preacher Man".

i think mary's early work is fine but nothing spectacular. Baby Don't Go is fine enough. The tears works pretty well. but they aren't "lost hits" by any means. most of her 60s leads are competent and that's about it. the snippets we've received from The Christmas Song are frankly the most compelling. really i think it's her strongest. just lovely

Falling In Love is also among her top performance. as is Makes No Difference. I'm rather indifferent to Our Day Will Come. not bad but just fine IMO.

I actually enjoy her verse on Enjoy Yourself. but it's mostly about the context of it. i can see her totally engaging herself on the stage, maybe with a coy little shoulder movement and a lot of winks of her eye at some guy sitting ringside. it's playful and really shows her stage presence [[even though it's just audio).

I think her Can't Take My Eyes from Hollywood Palace is one of her most wooden performances. her eyes look totally dead, expressionless face.

in the 70s it was again, hit or miss. A Heart Like Mine is ok - sometimes it's just too straight of a vocal and lacks passion. the released version of I Keep It Hid is also not highly engaging, aside from the glorious headvoice work at the end. the unreleased version was much stronger.

[blackguy69]

Always remember everything is subjective what one person doesn’t like, someone else will love it

[drlorne]

I'm not sure I'll be able to get this CD because Amazon.ca cancelled my order indicating they can't get the product. When I listened to this I didn't have any qualms with Mary, it was the anemic track, like, really? Someone said the Clan produced this? So no one owns this hot mess.

[Spreadinglove21]

It's OK, but I can understand why it was shelved. Of the vaulted Mary leads released with the Anthology the winner is "If You Let Me Baby". It would have fit well on Right On, or given Cream of the Crop a boost.

Of the alternate releases on the Anthology, "Early Morning Love" is my favorite.

[TomatoTom123]

Maybe it’s because the bar was very low cause of this thread LOL, but I don’t think this is that bad at all. The music and lyrics are ofc still good, the instrumental track is very nice, and the vocals are not bad. If it had been tidied up more back in the day, I could see it being released.

[DJMoch]

Maybe I'm simply very easy to please, but I don't find anything wrong with Son Of A Preacher Man, it's absolutely lovely! The, frankly, overly harsh opinions some here are making have me feeling a bit depressed if I'm honest. I'm not faulting them, it's their right to have said opinions, even if I vehemently disagree.

Despite that I am beside myself with excitement to hear the rest of this set. I miss Mary so much, and I'm glad we have this set to pay tribute to this Supreme lady.

[thanxal]

Maybe I'm simply very easy to please, but I don't find anything wrong with Son Of A Preacher Man, it's absolutely lovely! The, frankly, overly harsh opinions some here are making have me feeling a bit depressed if I'm honest. I'm not faulting them, it's their right to have said opinions, even if I vehemently disagree.

Despite that I am beside myself with excitement to hear the rest of this set. I miss Mary so much, and I'm glad we have this set to pay tribute to this Supreme lady.

Go ahead and like what you like. There are lots of negative people who are lightning quick to tear down anything Mary [[and on other threads about Thank You) or Diana do. Ignore them. Their trolling excites only themselves. To be fair there are others who just state “it’s not for me” which is fair and not trollish. But there are others who are always over eager to pounce.

[sup_fan]

Maybe I'm simply very easy to please, but I don't find anything wrong with Son Of A Preacher Man, it's absolutely lovely! The, frankly, overly harsh opinions some here are making have me feeling a bit depressed if I'm honest. I'm not faulting them, it's their right to have said opinions, even if I vehemently disagree.

Despite that I am beside myself with excitement to hear the rest of this set. I miss Mary so much, and I'm glad we have this set to pay tribute to this Supreme lady.

and that's what makes this forum so fun! the different opinions and the RESPECTFUL sharing of ideas and thoughts. I like Preacher Man too! i do enjoy comparing and discussing one song vs another, what we like or our opinions on it.

being able to share and discuss has actually led me to change my mind on some tunes

Nathan Jones - i have always liked it and still do. but in one of the discussions, a fan brought up the point that he didn't feel that the ending was powerful enough. after the bridge, the song just doesn't really take it to that next level. i found that a really interesting and compelling POV and actually now share that. IMO that could be why the song stalled in the top 20 and not the top 10.

[zani57]

I'm not sure I'll be able to get this CD because Amazon.ca cancelled my order indicating they can't get the product. When I listened to this I didn't have any qualms with Mary, it was the anemic track, like, really? Someone said the Clan produced this? So no one owns this hot mess.

Not sure why Amazon canceled your order. I just checked my Amazon account’s pending orders and the Anthology is there as an upcoming order. Original ship date was March 4, but nothing about order being canceled.

[RanRan79]

i think mary's early work is fine but nothing spectacular. Baby Don't Go is fine enough. The tears works pretty well. but they aren't "lost hits" by any means. most of her 60s leads are competent and that's about it. the snippets we've received from The Christmas Song are frankly the most compelling. really i think it's her strongest. just lovely

Falling In Love is also among her top performance. as is Makes No Difference. I'm rather indifferent to Our Day Will Come. not bad but just fine IMO.

I actually enjoy her verse on Enjoy Yourself. but it's mostly about the context of it. i can see her totally engaging herself on the stage, maybe with a coy little shoulder movement and a lot of winks of her eye at some guy sitting ringside. it's playful and really shows her stage presence [[even though it's just audio).

I think her Can't Take My Eyes from Hollywood Palace is one of her most wooden performances. her eyes look totally dead, expressionless face.

in the 70s it was again, hit or miss. A Heart Like Mine is ok - sometimes it's just too straight of a vocal and lacks passion. the released version of I Keep It Hid is also not highly engaging, aside from the glorious headvoice work at the end. the unreleased version was much stronger.

Well let's be real, none of the Supremes' early work is spectacular. Leastways not from that 1960-62 period. But of the three of them, I think Mary had the most "girl group" voice and pushing her in the beginning might have fared better for the group's early success. I don't care for Mary's leads on "Pretty Baby" or it's alternate. She sings it like she's singing along to the radio, rather than making me believe she's living the lyrics. "Baby Don't Go", on the other hand, while I'm not a fan of the song, she does give it life. The same with "The Tears".

"Enjoy Yourself" just didn't work for me. Visually it probably was better, but Mary doesn't prove how good she really is vocally with this song.

I agree 1000 percent with the Hollywood Palace appearance. I always wonder if this performance was Motown testing the waters on Mary's role once Diana left [[I think by the time of this appearance, Jean was the official choice for lead singer, but wonder if Motown was thinking on dividing up the job of lead singer). Maybe they wanted to gauge what a Mary fronted appearance would be going forward. If so, this was a bad audition. Not that the performance in and of itself is "bad", but I wouldn't have watched it and thought "Yes, let's make Mary a big component of the lead singing going forward". [[It also might have been throwing Mary a bone, considering all that was going on with the group.)

Mary had a very specific kind of voice that just didn't lend itself well to singing any and everything. She's the only Supreme lead I feel this way about. It's not that she lacked range, which of course the other lead ladies all had [[Diana, Flo, Jean, Lynda, Scherrie, Susaye), but I can't quite put my finger on what exactly it was about her voice that made her lead singing sometimes so up and down. It's not that she was an alto. I don't know. What I do know is that with the right song, Mary could hang with any of her Supreme sisters. I just don't know if "Eyes" was really the right one...until that Japan performance. But of course by then she had been singing it for a handful of years. One would hope by that point she'd perfect the vocal. That note she hits toward the end was not what we were used to hearing from Mary. In the right hands Mary could've given us even more great stuff, IMO.

"A Heart Like Mine" is a favorite of mine. I think her laidback vocal was spot on for the arrangement and the lyrics. To me it's passion of a different sort, as opposed to her belting it out or doing runs to signify how she felt.

I'm looking forward to the Anthology also because I never pay attention to "I Keep It Hid". Even as I sit here typing, I can't even hear the song in my head, that's how unfamiliar I am with it. There are maybe three or four tunes on the JW album that I listen to and I never just play the whole album. So I probably listened to "Hid" once and never played it again. With the comments about the alternate on the new set, I look forward to playing the original and the Anthology version. Maybe I'll find a new respect for it.

[RanRan79]

But there are others who are always over eager to pounce.

Well excuuuuuuse me for having an opinion!

[thanxal]

Well excuuuuuuse me for having an opinion!

We are sooooooo aware of that. Sooooo aware...

[bradsupremes]

I think we have to take into account that by the mid-60s, Mary and Florence were really only being taught harmony and not vocal development like Diana was experiencing. Diana's voice changed dramatically between 1964 to 1966 to 1968. She grew leaps and bounds as a vocalist at this time because she was getting the experience and training to do all the leads both in the studio and on stage. She was getting the practice to hone her craft. Mary and Florence weren't. That's why I feel it's a bit unfair to say they weren't vocally up to handle lead or their vocals were inconsistent. True, but that's not because they couldn't do it or they weren't good singers. They just weren't given the special treatment Diana was getting to allow them to grow as vocalists. I guarantee if Mary had been doing all the leads she would have been incredible on "Enjoy Yourself" or "Can't Take My Eyes Off You." I think it's the reason why Mary grew in the 70s because she was using a vocal coach, she was getting more exposure for leads and she could work on her craft. Even up to her death, Mary's voice was quite strong and dare I say much better than just about all of her Motown contemporaries who were singing lead. This includes Diana. I agree that some material was not the best showcase for her voice, but when given the right song Mary could prove she was just as good as her contemporaries. She proved she was not a background singer at all.

[floyjoy678]

I think we have to take into account that by the mid-60s, Mary and Florence were really only being taught harmony and not vocal development like Diana was experiencing. Diana's voice changed dramatically between 1964 to 1966 to 1968. She grew leaps and bounds as a vocalist at this time because she was getting the experience and training to do all the leads both in the studio and on stage. She was getting the practice to hone her craft. Mary and Florence weren't. That's why I feel it's a bit unfair to say they weren't vocally up to handle lead or their vocals were inconsistent. True, but that's not because they couldn't do it or they weren't good singers. They just weren't given the special treatment Diana was getting to allow them to grow as vocalists. I guarantee if Mary had been doing all the leads she would have been incredible on "Enjoy Yourself" or "Can't Take My Eyes Off You." I think it's the reason why Mary grew in the 70s because she was using a vocal coach, she was getting more exposure for leads and she could work on her craft. Even up to her death, Mary's voice was quite strong and dare I say much better than just about all of her Motown contemporaries who were singing lead. This includes Diana. I agree that some material was not the best showcase for her voice, but when given the right song Mary could prove she was just as good as her contemporaries. She proved she was not a background singer at all.

Exactly! Very well said Brad.

That was what was special about the original 3 Supremes: they all were capable of being the star.

[thanxal]

I think we have to take into account that by the mid-60s, Mary and Florence were really only being taught harmony and not vocal development like Diana was experiencing. Diana's voice changed dramatically between 1964 to 1966 to 1968. She grew leaps and bounds as a vocalist at this time because she was getting the experience and training to do all the leads both in the studio and on stage. She was getting the practice to hone her craft. Mary and Florence weren't. That's why I feel it's a bit unfair to say they weren't vocally up to handle lead or their vocals were inconsistent. True, but that's not because they couldn't do it or they weren't good singers. They just weren't given the special treatment Diana was getting to allow them to grow as vocalists. I guarantee if Mary had been doing all the leads she would have been incredible on "Enjoy Yourself" or "Can't Take My Eyes Off You." I think it's the reason why Mary grew in the 70s because she was using a vocal coach, she was getting more exposure for leads and she could work on her craft. Even up to her death, Mary's voice was quite strong and dare I say much better than just about all of her Motown contemporaries who were singing lead. This includes Diana. I agree that some material was not the best showcase for her voice, but when given the right song Mary could prove she was just as good as her contemporaries. She proved she was not a background singer at all.

I just could not agree more!

[jobucats]

I think we have to take into account that by the mid-60s, Mary and Florence were really only being taught harmony and not vocal development like Diana was experiencing. Diana's voice changed dramatically between 1964 to 1966 to 1968. She grew leaps and bounds as a vocalist at this time because she was getting the experience and training to do all the leads both in the studio and on stage. She was getting the practice to hone her craft. Mary and Florence weren't. That's why I feel it's a bit unfair to say they weren't vocally up to handle lead or their vocals were inconsistent. True, but that's not because they couldn't do it or they weren't good singers. They just weren't given the special treatment Diana was getting to allow them to grow as vocalists. I guarantee if Mary had been doing all the leads she would have been incredible on "Enjoy Yourself" or "Can't Take My Eyes Off You." I think it's the reason why Mary grew in the 70s because she was using a vocal coach, she was getting more exposure for leads and she could work on her craft. Even up to her death, Mary's voice was quite strong and dare I say much better than just about all of her Motown contemporaries who were singing lead. This includes Diana. I agree that some material was not the best showcase for her voice, but when given the right song Mary could prove she was just as good as her contemporaries. She proved she was not a background singer at all.

We must take into the account the work ethic of Diana who was, more or less, the first one to arrive to rehearsals and recording sessions and the last to leave. Also, Mary and Florence may not have demonstrated that certain 'drive' to be more than just background singers. They did not get the attention and coaching partly due to there were just not the needed resources [[personnel, time) to invest in them being that Motown was still a relatively new company. And in my opinion, Mary's voice showed its wear and tear just as Diana's did as the years went on. Possibly, she could have developed into being more of a soft blues or MOR singer; however, she was busy trying to be everything [[and I don't mean that in a negative way.)

[RanRan79]

We are sooooooo aware of that. Sooooo aware...

Good. It should make things run more smoothly around here.

[RanRan79]

I think we have to take into account that by the mid-60s, Mary and Florence were really only being taught harmony and not vocal development like Diana was experiencing. Diana's voice changed dramatically between 1964 to 1966 to 1968. She grew leaps and bounds as a vocalist at this time because she was getting the experience and training to do all the leads both in the studio and on stage. She was getting the practice to hone her craft. Mary and Florence weren't. That's why I feel it's a bit unfair to say they weren't vocally up to handle lead or their vocals were inconsistent. True, but that's not because they couldn't do it or they weren't good singers. They just weren't given the special treatment Diana was getting to allow them to grow as vocalists. I guarantee if Mary had been doing all the leads she would have been incredible on "Enjoy Yourself" or "Can't Take My Eyes Off You." I think it's the reason why Mary grew in the 70s because she was using a vocal coach, she was getting more exposure for leads and she could work on her craft. Even up to her death, Mary's voice was quite strong and dare I say much better than just about all of her Motown contemporaries who were singing lead. This includes Diana. I agree that some material was not the best showcase for her voice, but when given the right song Mary could prove she was just as good as her contemporaries. She proved she was not a background singer at all.

I agree 1000 percent with all of this. I hope my post didn't give the impression that I think Mary less of a singer than anyone else. I guess my overall point was that, like every singer I can probably think of, Mary had strengths and weaknesses. I'm of the opinion that there are a number of times that Motown did not put Mary in position to display her strengths as a lead vocalist as often as they did her weaknesses. Mary had a voice and in the right hands she could have done some great stuff, as a Supreme and a solo. I feel the same way about Diana in that regard. We've seen what she can do in the right hands. HDH were a gift she should forever be grateful for. But what if she had been stuck doing Smokey tunes? Or Berry tunes? Or what if she had gone to another label where they couldn't find the right fit? Like Mary, Diana had raw talent, which she was able to hone over time, often. But those early years for her were hit and miss too. There are times when her strengths are on full display and then times when it isn't. But my focus was on Mary. Motown didn't always take the time to pair her up with the best fit, i.e. "Come and Get These Memories". Also it can't be overstated the toll that it took on her psyche when she was told that she couldn't sing. It took her years to get that original confidence back, and I do think it shows in the catalog. In the end, I was always glad to point out that among the legends, Mary Wilson was one of the few who still sounded like she was in her prime.

[thanxal]

Good. It should make things run more smoothly around here.

We should have a sub-sub ghetto... Ran'sRant.

[TomatoTom123]

We should have a sub-sub ghetto... Ran'sRant.

I'd join