Mary Wilson at the taping of Diana's 1981 special?

[jobucats]

At the onset, my observation is NOT meant in anyway to be disrespectful to other fans. I am just looking for clarification.

Someone had submitted a YouTube link of Diana's 1981 tv special to a Supremes Facebook group. One of the members commented that a segment featuring Mary Wilson had been edited out. I believe it was during Diana's "Reach Out & Touch" segment.

It's all good; however, I had never heard or read about this. Is it in Mary's book? Apparently it was a big deal because to this FB fan, it was a highlight of the unedited version of the tv special. It led me to believe that it was more than just a 2 second camera shot.

[Albator]

It can't be said it was edited from the TV special.

Wilson was at the Forum and Diana shared the microphone with her but the sequence never made it's way on any tape.

That Mary Wilson fans think it was the highlight of that night rely on their subjectivity.

[sup_fan]

for anyone to have appeared singing w Diana would have required a release form. and if its a star, it gets more complex.

lets assume the segment had good video and audio quality, and lets assume the crowd goes wild. so it's now a peak highlight of the special. so does mary then become entitled to royalties? that would have to have been arranged ahead of time.

so who knows why it was cut. maybe she was sitting in an area where the lighting wasnt as good so teh video wasnt great or the audio was subpar. or she or diane were off pitch. or maybe diana didn't know far enough ahead of time o plan the paperwork for a release or agreement

[reese]

for anyone to have appeared singing w Diana would have required a release form. and if its a star, it gets more complex.

lets assume the segment had good video and audio quality, and lets assume the crowd goes wild. so it's now a peak highlight of the special. so does mary then become entitled to royalties? that would have to have been arranged ahead of time.

so who knows why it was cut. maybe she was sitting in an area where the lighting wasnt as good so teh video wasnt great or the audio was subpar. or she or diane were off pitch. or maybe diana didn't know far enough ahead of time o plan the paperwork for a release or agreement

Considering the Forum is a huge arena, the producers might very well have informed the audience before going in that the show would be taped for television and if they had any objections to being filmed, their money would be refunded. Knowing what Diana usually did for REACH OUT AND TOUCH, I can imagine that proper lighting was done for all areas of the arena because you never knew where a great shot would come from, like the Muhammed Ali segment for instance. More than likely, he signed a release after the fact unless Diana knew he was coming.

That said, no one knows what happened to the Mary segment. I'm assuming that there were technical problems because it probably would have been a highlight. I recall reading Freda Payne was in attendance as well although I don't know whether or not she sang.

[TheMotownManiac]

At the onset, my observation is NOT meant in anyway to be disrespectful to other fans. I am just looking for clarification.

Someone had submitted a YouTube link of Diana's 1981 tv special to a Supremes Facebook group. One of the members commented that a segment featuring Mary Wilson had been edited out. I believe it was during Diana's "Reach Out & Touch" segment.

It's all good; however, I had never heard or read about this. Is it in Mary's book? Apparently it was a big deal because to this FB fan, it was a highlight of the unedited version of the tv special. It led me to believe that it was more than just a 2 second camera shot.

I asked Steve Binder about the Mary segment because I was hoping there would be a DVD with a bunch of extras because she gave a full concert at the forum that night. He told me that there was an entire concert that was taped, but that there was only one small segment of the audience that they were prepared to get audio and video in and that’s where her guests were that were planned for the Reach Out segment Add any audience shots would have been in that same area. He doesn’t recall getting any particular usable footage of Diana and Mary singing together. He said that, if she did not want Mary or anyone to be in the special, she wouldn’t have bothered going over to them and having them sing to begin with. He said it was all planned out. That everyone that she did sing with was going to be a possibility for inclusion.

I told him that it had been sad that the audience went wild when Mary entered the forum before the concert, and again when Diana went up to her to sing. He said he does not recall any reaction to Mary entering the forum, and that nothing like that was picked up on the video that they were shooting before the lights dimmed. He said it would’ve been almost impossible for the audience to even know who mary wilson was entering the forum because 20,000 people were entering the forum and there would’ve had to of been spotlights and things for anyone to know that someone special has entered simply because the number of people going through the gates at the same time. Add to that the fact that, without a spotlight on her only people within 20 to 30 maybe 50 feet could even have seen if it was Mary , and how many of those people would’ve recognized Mary considering they hadn’t sang together for 11 years and there were thousands of new Diana Ross fans who had no idea who Mary Wilson was.

It sounds like an awful lot of legend based on very little credulous fact. It’s a nice thing to add if you are trying to prove a case of being a victim of Diana Ross’ mean nature, however.

[reese]

I asked Steve Binder about the Mary segment because I was hoping there would be a DVD with a bunch of extras because she gave a full concert at the forum that night. He told me that there was an entire concert that was taped, but that there was only one small segment of the audience that they were prepared to get audio and video in and that’s where her guests were that were planned for the Reach Out segment Add any audience shots would have been in that same area. He doesn’t recall getting any particular usable footage of Diana and Mary singing together. He said that, if she did not want Mary or anyone to be in the special, she wouldn’t have bothered going over to them and having them sing to begin with. He said it was all planned out. That everyone that she did sing with was going to be a possibility for inclusion.

I told him that it had been sad that the audience went wild when Mary entered the forum before the concert, and again when Diana went up to her to sing. He said he does not recall any reaction to Mary entering the forum, and that nothing like that was picked up on the video that they were shooting before the lights dimmed. He said it would’ve been almost impossible for the audience to even know who mary wilson was entering the forum because 20,000 people were entering the forum and there would’ve had to of been spotlights and things for anyone to know that someone special has entered simply because the number of people going through the gates at the same time. Add to that the fact that, without a spotlight on her only people within 20 to 30 maybe 50 feet could even have seen if it was Mary , and how many of those people would’ve recognized Mary considering they hadn’t sang together for 11 years and there were thousands of new Diana Ross fans who had no idea who Mary Wilson was.

It sounds like an awful lot of legend based on very little credulous fact. It’s a nice thing to add if you are trying to prove a case of being a victim of Diana Ross’ mean nature, however.

Thanks for more detailed info.

As I recall, it was in CALL HER MISS ROSS that the circumstances of Mary's appearance at the Forum was discussed at length. Mary didn't mention it at all in her book.

[jobucats]

Thanks for more detailed info.

As I recall, it was in CALL HER MISS ROSS that the circumstances of Mary's appearance at the Forum was discussed at length. Mary didn't mention it at all in her book.

Thanks, Reese.

[jobucats]

I asked Steve Binder about the Mary segment because I was hoping there would be a DVD with a bunch of extras because she gave a full concert at the forum that night. He told me that there was an entire concert that was taped, but that there was only one small segment of the audience that they were prepared to get audio and video in and that’s where her guests were that were planned for the Reach Out segment Add any audience shots would have been in that same area. He doesn’t recall getting any particular usable footage of Diana and Mary singing together. He said that, if she did not want Mary or anyone to be in the special, she wouldn’t have bothered going over to them and having them sing to begin with. He said it was all planned out. That everyone that she did sing with was going to be a possibility for inclusion.

I told him that it had been sad that the audience went wild when Mary entered the forum before the concert, and again when Diana went up to her to sing. He said he does not recall any reaction to Mary entering the forum, and that nothing like that was picked up on the video that they were shooting before the lights dimmed. He said it would’ve been almost impossible for the audience to even know who mary wilson was entering the forum because 20,000 people were entering the forum and there would’ve had to of been spotlights and things for anyone to know that someone special has entered simply because the number of people going through the gates at the same time. Add to that the fact that, without a spotlight on her only people within 20 to 30 maybe 50 feet could even have seen if it was Mary , and how many of those people would’ve recognized Mary considering they hadn’t sang together for 11 years and there were thousands of new Diana Ross fans who had no idea who Mary Wilson was.

It sounds like an awful lot of legend based on very little credulous fact. It’s a nice thing to add if you are trying to prove a case of being a victim of Diana Ross’ mean nature, however.

Thank you, TheMotownManiac, for this detailed account

[jobeterob]

What you’ve all written is logical and makes sense - it just isn’t what some rabid fans want to hear. As the years have gone on, more and more of these stories have been debunked.

A few people would have preferred a brawl in the aisle with wigs and eyelashes flying

[PeaceNHarmony]

... hard to believe that 'the audience went wild' when Mary entered. Maybe, if she had been introduced by Diana. But ... wishful thinking, methinks.

[sup_fan]

I asked Steve Binder about the Mary segment because I was hoping there would be a DVD with a bunch of extras because she gave a full concert at the forum that night. He told me that there was an entire concert that was taped, but that there was only one small segment of the audience that they were prepared to get audio and video in and that’s where her guests were that were planned for the Reach Out segment Add any audience shots would have been in that same area. He doesn’t recall getting any particular usable footage of Diana and Mary singing together. He said that, if she did not want Mary or anyone to be in the special, she wouldn’t have bothered going over to them and having them sing to begin with. He said it was all planned out. That everyone that she did sing with was going to be a possibility for inclusion.

I told him that it had been sad that the audience went wild when Mary entered the forum before the concert, and again when Diana went up to her to sing. He said he does not recall any reaction to Mary entering the forum, and that nothing like that was picked up on the video that they were shooting before the lights dimmed. He said it would’ve been almost impossible for the audience to even know who mary wilson was entering the forum because 20,000 people were entering the forum and there would’ve had to of been spotlights and things for anyone to know that someone special has entered simply because the number of people going through the gates at the same time. Add to that the fact that, without a spotlight on her only people within 20 to 30 maybe 50 feet could even have seen if it was Mary , and how many of those people would’ve recognized Mary considering they hadn’t sang together for 11 years and there were thousands of new Diana Ross fans who had no idea who Mary Wilson was.

It sounds like an awful lot of legend based on very little credulous fact. It’s a nice thing to add if you are trying to prove a case of being a victim of Diana Ross’ mean nature, however.

wonderful memories to share Maniac. as with a lot of stories, i think this one too got taken way out of context.

[jim aka jtigre99]

Mary Wilson never mentioned this in her book Supreme Faith. I believe that it was in Call Her Miss Ross. I can't say if it was true or not, I think Mary would have mentioned it but it could have been something she didn't find significant such as attending Diana Ross' birthday parties. Needless to say, Supremes fans would have recognized Mary even if newer fans of Ross didn't know the Supremes. It is possible that Mary went there and was recognized by enthusiastic Supremes fans, wore her foxtail coat, sang a few bars of Reach Out with Diana that was either nixed by Diana or due to technical or legal reasons. If they did sing a few lines together, it would have been a very exciting addition to the special and an homage to the Supremes and nice to see Diana and Mary together.

[RanRan79]

Whether exaggerated or not, had Diana and Mary sung together during the concert it would've easily been a highlight of the show because of the reunion of the two Supremes, similar to how Diana and Mary singing "Someday" at Mary's show was a highlight. There's no subjectivity to that, as far as I'm concerned. The public loves reunions, especially among beloved singing groups. The potential of Mary and Diana reuniting for a tour in 2000 had everybody talking. Does anyone really think the two singing together, or even appearing together, for a snippet of a song wouldn't have lit the Forum up in 1981?

[sup_fan]

Whether exaggerated or not, had Diana and Mary sung together during the concert it would've easily been a highlight of the show because of the reunion of the two Supremes, similar to how Diana and Mary singing "Someday" at Mary's show was a highlight. There's no subjectivity to that, as far as I'm concerned. The public loves reunions, especially among beloved singing groups. The potential of Mary and Diana reuniting for a tour in 2000 had everybody talking. Does anyone really think the two singing together, or even appearing together, for a snippet of a song wouldn't have lit the Forum up in 1981?

oh i agree it had the potential but it might not have been planned or anticipated.

Maniac mentioned that for those planned on being included in the special during Reach were all in one area of the arena. that way it was all set for lighting, sound, camera angles, etc. Perhaps Mary hadn't planned things ahead with Diana or whatever and so wasn't seated in that section. but when she learned that Mary was there, Diana happily went over to have her sing a line together, much to the audience's delight.

we've also listed out a variety of scenarios that might have created obstacles to it's inclusion. at this point in time, there's no reason to assume that Diana was necessarily being malicious by not including Mary in the segment.

[Spreadinglove21]

I reread the passage in Call Her Miss Ross. Taraborelli quoted anonymous sources for that passage so who knows how valid they are, or if they were disgrunted former Ross employees who wished to remain anonymous?

Binder's comments are credible, but he could be protecting Ross as well. Didn't he play a role in cutting The Prophet from the Central Park home video release? So he's not above doing what he has to do to protect Diana Ross' reputation.

I wonder why Mary attended the show. Did she know it was being filmed for a CBS special? Maybe she showed up in hopes of getting on the show to boost her career? I can see why Diana Ross may not have wanted to be used like that.

Or maybe Diana ordered the footage to not be shown to protect Mary? According to Call Her Miss Ross, Mary and her escort had to park at a nearby Holiday inn and Mary had to walk through weeds to get to the Forum. Maybe her outfit and wig were covered in weeds, dirt and leaves and other debris and she looked a mess so Diana out of the goodness of her heart spared Mary from being humiliated on national TV?

[jobeterob]

My memory is that at Motown 25, Mary and Cindy had to come out of some hedge or weeds as well while one of the husbands had to yell - “hey it’s a couple of the Supremes” in order to attract attention

It all sounds like a lot of nonsense

The probably wasn’t a hedge near the red carpet

No wonder Randy wasn’t thrilled with his book and rewrote it

[ejluther]

My memory is that at Motown 25, Mary and Cindy had to come out of some hedge or weeds as well while one of the husbands had to yell - “hey it’s a couple of the Supremes” in order to attract attention

It all sounds like a lot of nonsense

The probably wasn’t a hedge near the red carpet

No wonder Randy wasn’t thrilled with his book and rewrote it

LOL - love it!

[RanRan79]

oh i agree it had the potential but it might not have been planned or anticipated.

Maniac mentioned that for those planned on being included in the special during Reach were all in one area of the arena. that way it was all set for lighting, sound, camera angles, etc. Perhaps Mary hadn't planned things ahead with Diana or whatever and so wasn't seated in that section. but when she learned that Mary was there, Diana happily went over to have her sing a line together, much to the audience's delight.

we've also listed out a variety of scenarios that might have created obstacles to it's inclusion. at this point in time, there's no reason to assume that Diana was necessarily being malicious by not including Mary in the segment.

If the story is true, there are a myriad of reasons why Mary's segment may not have ended up in the special, none of which I have a problem with, except for the far fetched "Diana had Mary nixed" scenario. There's always this need for some folks to paint Diana as this truly evil person. She may not have always been the nicest or easiest person to get along with, but I find it hard to believe she would be that "mean" to Mary. I also find it hard to believe that Mary had the opportunity to be on a Diana Ross television special, had the scene cut from the final product, and never mentioned it once in either of her books, so...

Anyway, no, my comment was directed at the dig at Mary's fans and the apparent lack of objectivity regarding Mary singing with Diana as a highlight. [[As if Diana fans are known for our objectivity.) One wouldn't have to be a Mary or Diana fan to know that such an occurrence would be a high point of the event, from the perspective of the audience.

[RanRan79]

No wonder Randy wasn’t thrilled with his book and rewrote it

But he didn't re-write it. It's an entirely different book. Different material, different title, different cover. No more of a re-write than CHMR was a re-write of JRT's first Diana book. Honestly, if anyone were to ask me for the best sources on Diana's life, I'd refer them to read all three of JRT's books, which I think will probably always be the defining sources on her life. Taken together, it's probably the best well rounded view of a complicated lady. I'd be surprised if anyone could ever write a single book on Diana's life that offers what JRT's three books give us. But I'd love it if someone other than JRT gave it a try. Well, I'd love it if someone other than JRT and Diana's fawners gave it a try.