Who Is Norman Whitfield's SUPERSTAR?

[snakepit]

Found out...!!

[Boogiedown]

Really?
Spill the beans!!

[MIKEW-UK]

"Found out" as in "Rumbled"....

[snakepit]

Yep...Mike has it right

[MIKEW-UK]

Snakepit, given your inside knowledge, is it true the Isleys dedicated their "Who's That Lady" to the same cook?

[Boogiedown]

oh well thanks for your participation. your booby prizes await you.

[snakepit]

Snakepit, given your inside knowledge, is it true the Isleys dedicated their "Who's That Lady" to the same cook?

Appatently The Temptations were instructed to " Treat her like a Lady".
It went to her head and NW and BS wrote a song about her.

[danman869]

While we're on this sort of topic, I might as well ask if Marvin Gaye's "Try It Baby" was about anyone in particular.

Berry wrote in his autobiography, "To Be Loved," that the song "Try It Baby" was written about Diana Ross [pages 207-208]:

"[Diana] was my inspiration for a song I'd written, "Try It Baby." As usual, my idea for this song had come from real life. I imagined a girl like her with a guy like me who was building and guiding her career. I envisioned this guy investing all his time and effort in this girl, while at the same time falling in love with her. What if she got so big, so popular, so caught up in fame and fortune that she no longer had time for him? ... I never told Diana she was the inspiration for that song. I found myself falling for her more and more, but I stayed cool, incredibly cool."

[Boogiedown]

Another long shot, coming up on the outside lane, might be Fuqua's cohort, Johnny Bristol. Together they, right off the bat, supplied David Ruffin optmism for a successful solo, Temptation-less, career, providing him with a Top 10 song, MY WHOLE WORLD ENDED, ....
Then Johnny on his own as producer, gave Diana Ross her last Supremes hit , a #1, with SOMEDAY, which featured Johnny's voice more pronounced on the record than any by any actual Supremes .... perhaps making Norman think ..."who does he fancy himself, singing along with Diana like that, some kinda superstar!!?" And soon enough Johnny, getting too big for his Motown britches ,would be off to other labels and releasing songs entirely of his own ..

I don't believe Norman ever once inserted his voice into any of the acts' recordings he had produced [?]...

[snakepit]

No..just produced an album featuring a photograph of himself which dwarfed the group .

[Boogiedown]

oh dear, NORMAN!!





He haw!
The in-house revered giants, THE Temptations reduced to a thought in the master mind of Norman Whitfield. Must have caused chatter at the water cooler.

You suppose Norman submitted it to the art group as almost a poignant joke, and when it was run by Berry Gordy , he shook his head, then chuckled and said, "what the heck , let's run with it ."

Is this one of Motown's most outrageous yet rather hilarious moments?

[Sotosound]

oh dear, NORMAN!!



He haw!
The in-house revered giants, THE Temptations reduced to a thought in the master mind of Norman Whitfield. Must have caused chatter at the water cooler.

You suppose Norman submitted it to the art group as almost a poignant joke, and when it was run by Berry Gordy , he shook his head, then chuckled and said, "what the heck , let's run with it ."

Is this one of Motown's most outrageous yet rather hilarious moments?

So was Norman looking in the mirror when he wrote "Superstar"?

Plus, was it even his concept?

I keep mentioning Barrett Strong, and it might have been Barrett's idea and not Norman's. Big egos and big ideas don't always cohabit in the same person.

[snakepit]

I think Berry knew Norman was earning money for Motown [[ i.e. himself) so was quite happy to go with it.

[144man]

Who has an ego big enough to call their own composition "Masterpiece"?

[Boogiedown]

So was Norman looking in the mirror when he wrote "Superstar"?
hee hee , or maybe The Temptations were secretly singing it about him all along without Norman catching on, they just didn't let on, by saying they were singing about Eddie and/or David !
Plus, was it even his concept? if you mean the theme for the song SUPERSTAR, apparently so :

The song "Superstar [[Remember How You Got Where You Are)" had begun its life as a song Whitfield and lyricist Barrett Strong were writing about one of Whitfield's former friends, a producer whom Whitfield thought had become too standoffish after achieving success.

this quote in wiki being what started this inquiry in the first place

I keep mentioning Barrett Strong, and it might have been Barrett's idea and not Norman's. Big egos and big ideas don't always cohabit in the same person.

You have mentioned Barrett Strong , Sotosound, I apologize for glancing over it. Barrett is still with us . Does he have a facebook account or something of that nature?
Surely someone amonsgst us has access to him. It would be most interesting to learn his recounting of the situation. It'd be a shame to just let the 'truth' evaporate into mythology , when/if there's a way to document it from the source like that.
Once those sources are gone ....that's the dead end of it ...

Oh I know there are some who could care less, that's fine [whatever] ... nonetheless maybe others like me, would find the backstory noteworthy. It was a song of moderate success for the group, and an idea they put their name behind, and so its just one more piece of the entirety of their story.

[snakepit]

Hi Boogiedown
Noticed in your post that you say " could care less".
In the UK we say"couldn't care less".
Seems both will do...basically signalling indifference.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/word...ldnt-care-less

[Boogiedown]

^ take your pick from either as to my interest in that post

[snakepit]

Ha ha fair enough

[TomatoTom123]

You have mentioned Barrett Strong , Sotosound, I apologize for glancing over it. Barrett is still with us . Does he have a facebook account or something of that nature?
Surely someone amonsgst us has access to him. It would be most interesting to learn his recounting of the situation. It'd be a shame to just let the 'truth' evaporate into mythology , when/if there's a way to document it from the source like that.
Once those sources are gone ....that's the dead end of it ...

Oh I know there are some who could care less, that's fine [whatever] ... nonetheless maybe others like me, would find the backstory noteworthy. It was a song of moderate success for the group, and an idea they put their name behind, and so its just one more piece of the entirety of their story.

I agree Boogie, I'd like to know

[StuBass1]

Heee! To be fair, the Wikipedia page is referenced by several sources, albeit sources I have no access to and cannot verify.

Some further background from Wikipedia:

Kendricks had continued his friendship with Ruffin following his firing in 1968,[3] and by mid-1971 was making public statements blaming his departure on his problems with Otis Williams and Melvin Franklin.[4] Kendricks pointed out the failure of "It's Summer", the first single not to feature Kendricks' vocals, as evidence that the group was faltering without him, and Ruffin told the press that he was considering starting a new singing group with Kendricks, then-current Temptations lead singer Dennis Edwards, and, once his health improved, Kendricks' good friend Paul Williams [[another founding member of the Temptations who was forced to quit the group in 1971 because of failing health).[4] Ruffin and Kendricks' statements did not please the rest of the group or Whitfield.

This is from a Dennis Edwards interview with Tom Meros, and the Mark Ribowsky Temptations book.

This "theory is exactly what was portrayed in Otis's book and film, The Temptations... Mark Ribowsky et al apparently watched the film and/or read the book, both produced many years before his own book...

[Sotosound]

My personal take is that "It's Summer" failed because it wasn't of the same standard as previous hits. It attempted to give a melody to the spoken verse of the original version but that melody wasn't strong enough to sell singles irrespective of who sang it, and the overall production lacked the charm of the original.

"Superstar" was a step back towards success.

[Boogiedown]

I agree Boogie, I'd like to know

Guess we'll never know , eh Tom. It'll be one of those Motown insider facts that'll just finally wash away into the abyss....


Well Norman certainly saw high value in the song's message .....he recorded it again for The Undisputed Truth , and it was released unsuccessfully in the UK ,
Who were the Truth mad at !!!?



... sounding a bit [pre] Bohannon

[TomatoTom123]

Guess we'll never know , eh Tom. It'll be one of those Motown insider facts that'll just finally wash away into the abyss....


Well Norman certainly saw high value in the song's message .....he recorded it again for The Undisputed Truth , and it was released unsuccessfully in the UK ,
Who were the Truth mad at !!!?



... sounding a bit [pre] Bohannon

Indeed Boogie. Damn that Motown abyss!

If the song did in fact come from Barrett Strong, I guess we’d have to ask, who was Barrett's original intended "Superstar"!??

And yes, Norman must have thought the song worthy of remakes by both The Undisputed Truth and David Ruffin! And quite different takes on it too…



Do you think there exists a version of David’s Me N Rock N Roll album without the fake audience???

[Cosmic Truth]

It's just speculation but you might be right about Eddie Holland being the original subject of The Tempts' "Superstar [Remember How You Got Where You Are]". After all he did leave Motown Records [along with his Brother Brian & Lamont Dozier] to start his own company and it may be Norman's comment on that.

Yes, you'd never catch Norman doing anything like that.

[Cosmic Truth]

I remember reading an article in a magazine that said Superstar was an open letter to Sly Stone.

I've always assumed it was written about David Ruffin.

You'd think the meaning of the song would have been cleared up by now.

[Cosmic Truth]

Who has an ego big enough to call their own composition "Masterpiece"?

It does seem a tad big headed, but in fairness it's a fantastic album and the track Masterpiece is an absolutely superb piece of music.

[motony]

No..just produced an album featuring a photograph of himself which dwarfed the group .

snakepit you had me dyin laughin on that . I'm just readin this . In Norman Whitfield case & lesser degree H D H, just cause you the GREATEST musically does not transfer to BUSINESS. Thats where Berry Gordy shined because look at his family...they had that business sense & you can't trust others more then family. But I think Normans "Superstar" was a combo of many.