Sup 75 - what did you like, how would you change

[sup_fan]

The Supremes 75 is rightfully considered a comeback album, with the group finally releasing a new album after over 2.5 years without a new studio album. Clearly they were testing a variety of approaches, styles and producers. So what are your thoughts on the released material and the canned tracks?

Personally i think, hands down, the best material was that produced by Ivey and Woodford. And they frankly should have just led up the entire project. would have loved to hear a full lp with them at the helm. Scherrie just sounds amazing on all of her leads with them and Mary is lovely on You Turn Me Around. I like the 3-lead Sha La bandit as it gives a nod to each lady. but frankly the Scherrie lead version just has more power and oomph.

[sup_fan]

out of the canned tunes, I Can Never Recover is the one I'd label a lost gem. A great track, although needed full backing vocals by the group. still it should have been completed and used.

[blackguy69]

I would take out Where is it my heart belong and put in Can we love again. Also replace where did I go from here with either Dance fever or Bend a little.

[reese]

I really liked how confident Mary sounded on lead. I still think the '75 album contains the best and most consistent vocals she ever did. Not surprisingly, my faves on the album feature Mary: HE'S MY MAN, EARLY MORNING LOVE, THIS IS WHY I BELEIVE IN YOU, and YOU TURN ME AROUND.

I also like Scherrie's IT'S ALL BEEN SAID BEFORE, COLOR MY WORLD BLUE, and GIVE OUT BUT DON'T YOU GIVE UP.

Re the unreleased material, I would have definitely put CAN WE LOVE AGAIN on the album, to replace WHERE IS IT I BELONG and/or WHERE DO I GO FROM HERE. I might have also included ROOM AT THE TOP.

[sup_fan]

I really liked how confident Mary sounded on lead. I still think the '75 album contains the best and most consistent vocals she ever did. Not surprisingly, my faves on the album feature Mary: HE'S MY MAN, EARLY MORNING LOVE, THIS IS WHY I BELEIVE IN YOU, and YOU TURN ME AROUND.

I also like Scherrie's IT'S ALL BEEN SAID BEFORE, COLOR MY WORLD BLUE, and GIVE OUT BUT DON'T YOU GIVE UP.

Re the unreleased material, I would have definitely put CAN WE LOVE AGAIN on the album, to replace WHERE IS IT I BELONG and/or WHERE DO I GO FROM HERE. I might have also included ROOM AT THE TOP.

i just don't connect with Mary's dance vocals on Sup 75, although frankly i think her best was This Is Why. it's not a great song but her husky vocals seem to work better here than on HMM. I also like her on the funkier My Boogie. again, not a stellar song but IMO it fits her vocal style better. the track isn't as busy and thick and it's not as fast as HMM. on those big whopper songs, Scherrie does a better job of pushing through all the clutter and really popping

I also do like Mary on the mid tempo dance tracks like Can we love again and HE's You're What's Missing.

[sup_fan]

it's also a shame that mary did every ballad. yes that's her forte and all. but i'd love to hear what Scherrie might have done on a lush, romantic ballad.

And i wonder if something like Can We Love Again could have worked for Cindy. it's a very straightforward vocal line and her breathy sexy voice might have added another dimension to it

[JimEMack]

The best track IMHO is "It's All Been Said Before". "Bend a Little" should have been on it. It's too bad that Ivey and Woodward gave "Angel in Your Arms" to Hot.

[jim aka jtigre99]

The 1975 Supremes comeback album was an excellent introduction to new member Scherrie Payne and wonderful in that Mary Wilson was singing leads on other tunes besides a spotlighted ballad lead, plus the harmony with Cindy Birdsong was clearly so beautiful. I liked all of the songs and thought they were well done, the vocals gave me enthusiasm that the Supremes were on their way again. The album was only so many songs, so I feel Bend A Little definitely should have been added and maybe swap Where Is It I Belong for Can We Love Again. Where Do I Go From Here was the one song that I felt the harmony seemed too rough on, yet they made that their second single, I would have opted for Bend A Little or Early Morning Love. I also feel they could have swapped Where for I Can Never Recover. Still, all in all it is a very eclectic set with a variety of sounds from Pop to Disco to Soul to Ballads, yet it retained the Supremes formula and after the last outings with Jean, I was very pleased to hear the new leads from Scherrie and Mary, they were exciting and seemed more in tune with the times.

[Spreadinglove21]

The Ivey Woodfard tracks are the standouts. Side 2 of the record can stand with the best sides of any album in the Supremes discography.

Side 1--I'd drop Early Morning Love for Bend a Little; Where is it I Belong for Can We Love Again; This is Why I Believe in You for Sha La Bandit [[MCS lead version--Cindy deserved to be heard on a lead for a verse).

[kenneth]

The 1975 Supremes comeback album was an excellent introduction to new member Scherrie Payne and wonderful in that Mary Wilson was singing leads on other tunes besides a spotlighted ballad lead, plus the harmony with Cindy Birdsong was clearly so beautiful. I liked all of the songs and thought they were well done, the vocals gave me enthusiasm that the Supremes were on their way again. The album was only so many songs, so I feel Bend A Little definitely should have been added and maybe swap Where Is It I Belong for Can We Love Again. Where Do I Go From Here was the one song that I felt the harmony seemed too rough on, yet they made that their second single, I would have opted for Bend A Little or Early Morning Love. I also feel they could have swapped Where for I Can Never Recover. Still, all in all it is a very eclectic set with a variety of sounds from Pop to Disco to Soul to Ballads, yet it retained the Supremes formula and after the last outings with Jean, I was very pleased to hear the new leads from Scherrie and Mary, they were exciting and seemed more in tune with the times.

This opinion could have come from me nearly verbatim, but I'm one of the few who like "Where Is It I Belong," I guess because it showed Mary ushering the Sups into more "adult material," as did "Early Morning Love."

I always loved the album. It was the first Sups album I ever bought of any lineup except for the double Greatest Hits package.

I do recall even at the time thinking the album was so short! They could have easily at least filled it out to 12 tracks, and definitely "I Can Never Recover" and [[absolutely) "Bend a Little" should have been included!

Loved the cover, too. The front looked vintage and on the back they looked glam. But we've discussed this before, I didn't recognize Cindy on the back cover! I always thought it was 2 different lineups until much, much later! She's so distinctive looking, especially around the eyes, and they airbrushed her portrait on the "glam" side of the cover to me at least, beyond recognition.

Overall a great album, although brief. I'll just mention what I think I said in a review on Amazon of the box set, Supremes '75 sounded like a debut album by a new, fresh young group. And really, it was.

[marybrewster]

The 1950's made a huge resurgence in 1973 with "American Graffiti" and in 1974 with "Happy Days". That said, some of the tracks intended for Supremes 1975 did have that "throwback" feel; "The Sha-La Bandit" and "The Shoop Shoop Song" especially. I wonder if more songs in that vein might have worked? I've probably mentioned 1000 times that "It's All Been Said Before" is likely my favorite 70's Supremes track. This album had all the elements and possibilities of being a smash. Yet, in so many ways, another miss for the group.

[drlorne]

I've always wondered how much control they had over the songs and who the producers were. Who made those decisions? Who was in their corner at this time? I agree this was a strong album and should have garnered another album with more of the Ivey and Woodford songs.

[marybrewster]

I've always wondered how much control they had over the songs and who the producers were. Who made those decisions? Who was in their corner at this time? I agree this was a strong album and should have garnered another album with more of the Ivey and Woodford songs.

Good question, especially because it took them so long to get a contract signed and get into the studio after Jean and Lynda's departure. From a time when they were releasing 2, 3, 4 albums a year, to go almost 2 years seems unheard of. I bet Mary was just happy to be recording again. I think if Cindy had stayed, this grouping could have really been something.

[sup_fan]

The 1950's made a huge resurgence in 1973 with "American Graffiti" and in 1974 with "Happy Days". That said, some of the tracks intended for Supremes 1975 did have that "throwback" feel; "The Sha-La Bandit" and "The Shoop Shoop Song" especially. I wonder if more songs in that vein might have worked? I've probably mentioned 1000 times that "It's All Been Said Before" is likely my favorite 70's Supremes track. This album had all the elements and possibilities of being a smash. Yet, in so many ways, another miss for the group.

I agree. While their rendition of Shoop isn't magical, it's still decent. certainly better than some of the released tracks like the horrid Where Is It I Belong. Had the album focused mostly on the pop styles it might have done better. and i still think that Scherrie was relegated too much into the background when they sang live and on tv.

a lineup could have included:

I can never recover
Color My world blue
give out don't give up
You turn me around
Sha la bandit

You can't stop a girl in love
It's all been said before
Can we love again
Shoop
Plant the seed of love

i also thought it might be fun to include BOTH versions of the You can't stop a girl - as Part 1 and Part 2. but i don't think that was a common practice then

[blackguy69]

Like I said before this album needed some tweaking but I liked it overall

[telekin]

Honestly, there's not a lot that I would change about this album. This is the second Supremes album I heard, but the first one I really loved. Despite being compiled by the label, old-school style, culling what Motown [[or their quality control maybe?) felt was the best cuts from various sessions, it all hangs together quite well. Compared to The Temptations' "Dance Party" LP, which Motown released around the same time, compiled in much the same way [[even including a similar assortment of producers), The Supremes is a much better album. Just the right amount of variety and cohesiveness, despite the multiple producers involved.

Personally, I loved that this album was a showcase for both Mary and Scherrie. Hearing Mary on both uptempo tracks and the ballads is quite honestly one of my favourite things about this album. There's an earthy warmth to her voice which balances out the brassy tone and energy in Scherrie's voice quite nicely. As much as some may lament The Supremes' personnel changes in this period, I think Scherrie came into the group at just the right time. I'm not sure Jean Terrell, as great as she is, would have been able to usher The Supremes into the disco era with quite the same verve that Scherrie does.

If there's anything I'd change or add, it would be to include "Bend A Little." The album only runs just over 30 minutes if I recall, so surely there would have been enough room for it on the vinyl. I suppose record company politics got in the way of that, but I'm imagining it would have given them another disco smash to follow up "He's My Man."

Also, I do wish that Cindy would have been given a little vocal showcase also. I suppose between that and the fact that she was practically airbrushed beyond recognition on the cover, pretty much backs up what Mary said in her 2nd book about how Motown just wasn't all that keen about having Cindy back in the group by this point.

[telekin]

This opinion could have come from me nearly verbatim, but I'm one of the few who like "Where Is It I Belong," I guess because it showed Mary ushering the Sups into more "adult material," as did "Early Morning Love."

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I enjoy both "Early Morning Love" and "Where Is It I Belong." Tom Moulton in his Disco Mix column in Billboard gave high praise to this album singling out "Early Morning Love" as one of the tracks primed for disco play.

I can also imagine Mary could identify with the lyric of "Where Is It I Belong" too [[Tom Jones, anyone?). I had mentioned in an earlier discussion about this album, wondering out loud how The Supremes would have sounded if they had worked with Norman Whitfield, and this song kind of gives a clue. Well, this and "Can We Love Again," both produced by Mark Davis who I believe was something of a protégé of Whitfield's. He played keyboards on many of his productions and worked closely with him even after Whitfield left Motown.

[kenneth]

@telekin,

Great minds think alike! And of course you’re right about Tom Jones, although I had never thought of it!

K

[floyjoy678]

I've never listened to this album all the way through. There's few albums I listened to all the way through after Sing Rodgers and Hart. I will say I love "It's All Been Said Before" and think they really missed out on releasing that as a single. I do wish they stuck with the nostalgic feel for the songs, maybe have Mary do "Baby It's You" in a slow ballad form.

Re: Motown trying to get rid of Cindy. Isn't that ironic considering they were hell bent on getting her released from the Bluebells to replace Flo? I did really like the SMC line up and wish they lasted longer than they did. They had a nice cohesiveness going for them and can't understand why Mary, Pedro, Motown, etc were hard on Cindy during this time. I thought she looked and sounded great!

[sup_fan]

i'm just trying to piece things together from the years of the many interesting stories shared on here by lots of the long-time fans. So i'm not 100% what is conjecture, fact, theory, etc.

but as i understand it...

Motown had 0 interest in the supremes after L and J left. there was never any interest in investing or developing mary as a featured singing within the group, much less doing anything with her as a solo artist. in 70 with the MJC lineup, i think motown was quite happy with the group's success - i don't buy that there were any malicious plots to purposely sink the Supremes. things went along fine for the first year or two but then album sales tanked, the singles repeatedly struggled to even creep into the top 20, public interest began to wane. the FJ album did ok but singles 2 and 3 bombed. motown then agreed to do WAY outside their normal comfort zone and bring in an outside producer to handle the next project - and the JW album bombed too. then Stevie bombed.

So in motown's eyes, the group was done and with 2 members looking to leave, i'd assume Berry and the crew thought - ok good. been a good run but we're all done now.

but then what about mary?

she was right that there's NO way motown would allow MJL to leave and take the name. can't say i blame mary for NOT wanting to leave the label - at least to join Jean elsewhere. after 3+ years of working with Jean, mary knew she was not a team player and trying to break in at a new label with jean would NOT be easy or smooth.

mary had no other options - no solo career options at motown, no other label options with the supremes or with J and L. and no other labels wanted mary as a soloist. so mary was going leave motown with about $100K to her name and nothing else - exactly what happened to flo in 67.

word is that Mary really worked to convince berry to give them another change - i don't know if she begged, or pleaded or blackmailed or laid out powerpoint of key opportunities and a biz plan lol. but supposedly Berry felt some degree of sympathy and gratitude for the years mary devoted to the label. so he helped give the green light to another Sups grouping. plus MSC have been touring still and clearly there was still interest from the die-hard fans. so maybe....

mary wanted to be lead but motown said no way. they begrudgingly seemed to go along with the dual lead idea. it took a while to scherrie released from Invictus and motown prob wasn't really breaking down the door to get her anyway.

as for Cindy, i'd assume when Mary said Cindy would be returning, motown said "really?!?" Was she a strong singer in the group before? she's been out of the industry for 2 or so years now, is she able to get back into it?

finally all 3 are signed and motown assigns them to all sorts of producers to experiment and see.

[blackguy69]

If I’m correct, Cindy was still signed when she went on maternity leave. Her contact was up when Mary’s was up in Jan 1973. It was never clear when Cindy actually left and when Lynda actually came in. We do know Lynda auditioned around early March and was recording before she was official. MJC was still performing live thru mid April 1972. The way I understood the tour to Australia that was supposed to start late April was going to be Cindy’s last tour but Lynda was going to go as well but we all know what happened next hence Lynda’s debut in May with Mary and Cindy.

i'm just trying to piece things together from the years of the many interesting stories shared on here by lots of the long-time fans. So i'm not 100% what is conjecture, fact, theory, etc.

but as i understand it...

Motown had 0 interest in the supremes after L and J left. there was never any interest in investing or developing mary as a featured singing within the group, much less doing anything with her as a solo artist. in 70 with the MJC lineup, i think motown was quite happy with the group's success - i don't buy that there were any malicious plots to purposely sink the Supremes. things went along fine for the first year or two but then album sales tanked, the singles repeatedly struggled to even creep into the top 20, public interest began to wane. the FJ album did ok but singles 2 and 3 bombed. motown then agreed to do WAY outside their normal comfort zone and bring in an outside producer to handle the next project - and the JW album bombed too. then Stevie bombed.

So in motown's eyes, the group was done and with 2 members looking to leave, i'd assume Berry and the crew thought - ok good. been a good run but we're all done now.

but then what about mary?

she was right that there's NO way motown would allow MJL to leave and take the name. can't say i blame mary for NOT wanting to leave the label - at least to join Jean elsewhere. after 3+ years of working with Jean, mary knew she was not a team player and trying to break in at a new label with jean would NOT be easy or smooth.

mary had no other options - no solo career options at motown, no other label options with the supremes or with J and L. and no other labels wanted mary as a soloist. so mary was going leave motown with about $100K to her name and nothing else - exactly what happened to flo in 67.

word is that Mary really worked to convince berry to give them another change - i don't know if she begged, or pleaded or blackmailed or laid out powerpoint of key opportunities and a biz plan lol. but supposedly Berry felt some degree of sympathy and gratitude for the years mary devoted to the label. so he helped give the green light to another Sups grouping. plus MSC have been touring still and clearly there was still interest from the die-hard fans. so maybe....

mary wanted to be lead but motown said no way. they begrudgingly seemed to go along with the dual lead idea. it took a while to scherrie released from Invictus and motown prob wasn't really breaking down the door to get her anyway.

as for Cindy, i'd assume when Mary said Cindy would be returning, motown said "really?!?" Was she a strong singer in the group before? she's been out of the industry for 2 or so years now, is she able to get back into it?

finally all 3 are signed and motown assigns them to all sorts of producers to experiment and see.

[daviddh]

Really,who picked the final ten tracks and left gems like , Can We Love Again, Bend A Little in the vaults.
Sherries lead on Sha La was best

[Thornton]

This is the latest mix I've been enjoying. Keep in mind that I also have a mix of High Energy that includes Early Morning Love and Where Do I Go From Here.

Side A:
1. He's My Man [[extended mix)
2. I Can Never Recover
3. It's All Been Said Before
4. Color My World Blue
5. Bend A Little [[extended mix)
6. Can We Love Again
Side B:
7. This Is Why I Believe In You [[with intro)
8. The Sha-La Bandit [[multi-lead vocal)
9. You Can't Stop A Girl In Love
10. Give Out, But Don't Give Up [[Scherrie lead)
11. You Turn Me Around
12. Seed of Love

In short: include all the Woodford and Ivey tracks, highlight Scherrie, beef up the album from 29 minutes to a solid 40.