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  1. #1
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    Reasons for why ABBA is getting more attention then Diana Ross' new album?

    I hope this is right place to put it, but why is Abba getting more attention then the Thank you project?

    My theories include:

    Most obviously it's been 40 years since ABBA has released new music while Diana Ross was pretty busy with new music between 81 and 99. And though there hasn't been much since Every Day is a New Day, she has toured [[especially in the US) and occasionally does TV and interviews and award show appearances.

    But I also think that whoever has managed the ABBA brand the last 40 years has done a remarkable job keeping ABBA known. Through releases of Greatest Hits projects, savvy marketing such as Mamma Mia theater show and movies, as well as licensing hits for movies and TV which allowed for new generations to discover and like ABBA.

    Also helps that all of ABBA's songs/hits were written by Benny and Bjorn so I suspect they have some control over their catalogues, whereas Ross only wrote a handful of her songs and her back catalog is spread out over Motown/Universal and RCA/EMI. So that makes it difficult for her to control the legacy.

    Other reasons?

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    ABBA's popularity is a total mystery to me [didn't care 40 years ago; don't care now ...) but for whatever reason they have a huge, fanatical fanbase that has only grown exponentially since their breakup. Hence, a HUGE promo machine backing them, and a 40-year gap in recording. I've read that the 2 songs released were insta-bombs but I haven't followed up on that 'research'. It will be interesting to see how much 'interest' extends to lp sales when the album arrives, and if the hologram concert is successful. For, again, whatever reason, ABBA has become an 'experience' more than an actual band, so time will tell.

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    i agree that this is more of a "reunion" effort for Abba rather than just more music from a person/group that has been quite active for many years. perhaps if the RTL concept had actually happened as we fans had hoped, then you might have seen something similar across the globe.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    I've read that the 2 songs released were insta-bombs but I haven't followed up on that 'research'. It will be interesting to see how much 'interest' extends to lp sales when the album arrives, and if the hologram concert is successful. For, again, whatever reason, ABBA has become an 'experience' more than an actual band, so time will tell.
    I am a big ABBA fan and will have to respectfully disagree. First, to be fair, the new songs were released five days ago, so their impact on the charts are not fully known as of yet. Mid-week charts are supposedly making things look promising. The new singles have been in the top 10 on iTunes in most countries for days. On YouTube, each song is currently at #4 and #6 in Trending Music. Furthermore, Universal UK announced that they received 80,000 pre-orders for their forthcoming album in the last five days. I believe this is solely for physical units. I think 80,000 units in the UK means that they have already earned a silver or gold certification, just in the past five days.

    ABBA was and has always been an international phenomenon, much like the Beatles. Their compilation ABBA Gold has been one of the top selling and longest charting compilations in music history. It's this compilation that brought them back into popularity in the 90s, and then the Mamma Mia stage show and movies, starting in 1999 and into the 2000's. In my opinion, ABBA pioneered a sound that influenced so many genres and artists in the years that followed their breakup, much like Motown did and does. Love them or hate them, they are an institution. Just like Motown, ABBA also have their own museum in Sweden. People have been awaiting this reunion for decades and for a long time, their musical reunion never seemed possible.

    To compare ABBA to Diana's career trajectory/success, in my opinion, is like comparing apples to oranges.
    Last edited by carlo; 09-07-2021 at 05:06 PM.

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    1. Young peep’s are pretty familiar with Abba’s back catalogue. Who isn’t?. Much less so with Diana Ross.
    2. They have an incredible fan base with their songs appealing to just about every age bracket. Abba is also a brand.
    3. Their songs are very radio friendly and they write and produce their own music making it more personal.

  6. #6
    Well said, Ollie. ABBA does indeed appeal to every age bracket. My late grandfather was still listening to them in his 80's, while I started listening to them when I was 6 years old. In my opinion, they pioneered their own sound and genre. They've managed to mix folk/European music with classical music, as well as dance music. They pioneered so many different things...early use of synthesizers, they were the first to release their music on CD in 1981, they started filming and airing their own music videos long before most artists. The list goes on...

    As for the lack of attention on Diana's upcoming album, what kind of promo has she done to date? I have yet to see any. I understand that the pandemic makes things difficult, but here's hoping she will at least do a handful of interviews from home. Nevertheless, I am super excited for both Diana's and ABBA's new albums, and I am still pinching myself that my all time favorites are releasing their new albums on the same day! Also loving the new music I am hearing thus far from both!

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    Abba has global appeal as does Diana but Mama Mia the musical has been seen by millions around the globe and has packed em in for decades. That show brings nightly attention to ABBAs music every time someone walks into a theater. I LOVE ABBA. That said there two new songs are beyond boring.

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    I understand that ABBA's new CD will be released the same day as Diana's? Without a doubt Diana's effort will be overshadowed, much like Farrah was with MJ.

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    I'm not an Abba fan. I like a few of their songs, but not enough to collect their catalog, or even a hits compilation. Their global appeal can't be underestimated. I guess the easy answer to the question is "promotion". Apparently this Abba reunion has gotten great press around the globe. They have kept their name and their music front and center despite not being together. The stage play and the movie just secured their popularity with a new generation of listeners.

    Except for this forum, I haven't heard a peep about Diana's releases. Good Morning America, the one that's on in the afternoon, often plays Diana's "Aint No Mountain High Enough" as it's signing off song. A couple of times they played Diana's "Thank You" as the signing off song. That's the extent of any relevance of Diana's new stuff that I've come across aside from SD. Where are the interviews? Where are the music videos? Believe it or not, music videos are even more relevant for success than they were 20 and 30 years ago. Radio is not what it used to be as far as popularity goes. So many people get their music online, and the music video has been one of the best promotional tools for that. I realize we're in a pandemic still, and even being vaccinated we should all use caution, but if she brought on the right person to handle it, Diana could have some great music videos that might [[MIGHT) get a good reception from the music buying public. She has enough money to have it done where she may not have to go out or be around a bunch of people to shoot her parts.

    She could also do some performing from home. Patti Labelle has some great Youtube videos of herself performing from home. Diana could do that. This is always the frustrating part of being a Diana Ross fan. There's always these possibilities for her to do something big and worthwhile, but she falls back on doing the absolute least and hoping, I assume, for a big return. My fingers are crossed that she ultimately pulls out the big guns, goes hard, and ends up with a surprise runaway success. I'll keep my fingers crossed until it happens, or enough time has passed, and it doesn't.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I'm not an Abba fan. I like a few of their songs, but not enough to collect their catalog, or even a hits compilation. Their global appeal can't be underestimated. I guess the easy answer to the question is "promotion". Apparently this Abba reunion has gotten great press around the globe. They have kept their name and their music front and center despite not being together. The stage play and the movie just secured their popularity with a new generation of listeners.

    Except for this forum, I haven't heard a peep about Diana's releases. Good Morning America, the one that's on in the afternoon, often plays Diana's "Aint No Mountain High Enough" as it's signing off song. A couple of times they played Diana's "Thank You" as the signing off song. That's the extent of any relevance of Diana's new stuff that I've come across aside from SD. Where are the interviews? Where are the music videos? Believe it or not, music videos are even more relevant for success than they were 20 and 30 years ago. Radio is not what it used to be as far as popularity goes. So many people get their music online, and the music video has been one of the best promotional tools for that. I realize we're in a pandemic still, and even being vaccinated we should all use caution, but if she brought on the right person to handle it, Diana could have some great music videos that might [[MIGHT) get a good reception from the music buying public. She has enough money to have it done where she may not have to go out or be around a bunch of people to shoot her parts.

    She could also do some performing from home. Patti Labelle has some great Youtube videos of herself performing from home. Diana could do that. This is always the frustrating part of being a Diana Ross fan. There's always these possibilities for her to do something big and worthwhile, but she falls back on doing the absolute least and hoping, I assume, for a big return. My fingers are crossed that she ultimately pulls out the big guns, goes hard, and ends up with a surprise runaway success. I'll keep my fingers crossed until it happens, or enough time has passed, and it doesn't.
    Ran, I agree. For me, Diana seems "lazy". The last two times I saw her, which was over a year apart, it was the same EXACT show, with the same EXACT gowns. I ate up every minute of it, of course. But Diana knows that. She knows she'll always have a fan base, knows she could come out in mumu and sing the Alphabet Song 16 times and the fans would say it was the most fabulous thing they'd ever seen. Diana is Diana, and hasn't reinvented herself in years. ABBA on the horizon is fresh and exciting, with new music, new tour, new group photos.....not some outtakes from 1986 or 1996.

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    I am still not convinced that these ABBA songs are "new" as opposed to ones that they have had in the vaults all these years. Both songs sound just like something they would have done at the peak of their career.

    I will probably buy both CDs, so I guess I am no help in resolving this argument.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daviddesper View Post
    I am still not convinced that these ABBA songs are "new" as opposed to ones that they have had in the vaults all these years. Both songs sound just like something they would have done at the peak of their career.

    I will probably buy both CDs, so I guess I am no help in resolving this argument.
    There is no argument david, merely a discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I'm not an Abba fan. I like a few of their songs, but not enough to collect their catalog, or even a hits compilation. Their global appeal can't be underestimated. I guess the easy answer to the question is "promotion". Apparently this Abba reunion has gotten great press around the globe. They have kept their name and their music front and center despite not being together. The stage play and the movie just secured their popularity with a new generation of listeners.

    Except for this forum, I haven't heard a peep about Diana's releases. Good Morning America, the one that's on in the afternoon, often plays Diana's "Aint No Mountain High Enough" as it's signing off song. A couple of times they played Diana's "Thank You" as the signing off song. That's the extent of any relevance of Diana's new stuff that I've come across aside from SD. Where are the interviews? Where are the music videos? Believe it or not, music videos are even more relevant for success than they were 20 and 30 years ago. Radio is not what it used to be as far as popularity goes. So many people get their music online, and the music video has been one of the best promotional tools for that. I realize we're in a pandemic still, and even being vaccinated we should all use caution, but if she brought on the right person to handle it, Diana could have some great music videos that might [[MIGHT) get a good reception from the music buying public. She has enough money to have it done where she may not have to go out or be around a bunch of people to shoot her parts.

    She could also do some performing from home. Patti Labelle has some great Youtube videos of herself performing from home. Diana could do that. This is always the frustrating part of being a Diana Ross fan. There's always these possibilities for her to do something big and worthwhile, but she falls back on doing the absolute least and hoping, I assume, for a big return. My fingers are crossed that she ultimately pulls out the big guns, goes hard, and ends up with a surprise runaway success. I'll keep my fingers crossed until it happens, or enough time has passed, and it doesn't.
    I agree with the points you raise Ran. Perhaps and even maybe Diana is saving herself for promotion of the album. I certainly hope that is the reason she is nowhere to be seen. Perhaps non personal promotion was a clause in her signing with Decca.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daviddesper View Post
    I am still not convinced that these ABBA songs are "new" as opposed to ones that they have had in the vaults all these years. Both songs sound just like something they would have done at the peak of their career.

    And how amazing is it that they sound just like they came straight from 1980! I think that’s a great achievement. The songs are indeed classic Abba instead of them trying to sound like someone else, which would’ve been a disaster. Imagine something like Abba Feat. Dua Lipa or Abba Feat. Drake. Yikes, what a nightmare. Abba Featuring Diana Ross on the other hand would obviously be more than welcome, heh!

    But that wasn’t your point, or what I meant to reply to! Here it comes… I totally get your suspicion that the first two songs might be just something old from the vaults. And I guess the compositions *could* be old, as the Abba guys are known to recycle old bits and pieces of songs that they’ve for some reason put aside before. But as far as at least the lyrics go, Björn has told that when they decided to come up with two new songs for the Abbatar show, he had a very strong feeling that the first song should be about the four of them – their friendship, amazing journey together and this new beginning. So that’s what he sat down to write. I think one can really see it in the lyrics:

    ”I Still Have Faith In You”

    I still have faith in you
    I see it now
    Through all these years that faith lives on, somehow

    There was a union
    Of heart and mind
    The likes of which are rare and oh so hard to find

    Do I have it in me?
    I believe it is in there
    For I know I hear a bittersweet song
    In the memories we share

    I still have faith in you
    And I will say
    I never really thought I'd feel this way

    But I remind myself
    Of who we are
    How inconceivable it is to reach this far

    Do I have it in me?
    I believe it is in there
    For I know I hear a bittersweet song
    In the memories we share

    We do have it in us
    New spirit has arrived
    The joy and the sorrow
    We have a story
    And it survived

    And we need one another
    Like fighters in a ring
    We're in this together
    Passion and courage
    Is everything

    I still have faith in you
    It stands above the crazy things we did
    It all comes down to love

    Do I have it in me?
    I believe it is in there
    For I know I hear a bittersweet song
    In the memories we share
    Do I have it in me?

    We do have it in us
    New spirit has arrived
    The joy and the sorrow
    We have a story
    And it survived

    And we know that we need one another
    Like fighters in a ring
    We're in this together
    Passion and courage
    Is everything

    – I still have faith in you –
    And we still have it in us
    We've only just arrived
    – Do I have it in me? –
    We stand on a summit
    Humble and grateful
    To have survived

    I still have faith in you
    It stands above the crazy things we did
    It all comes down to love
    Do I have it in me?

    ————————

    It’s quite touching really! As for the second song, the faster Don’t Shut Me Down which I personally prefer, I also believe it being new. The lyrics really fit the comeback. It’s like they’re singing to their fans! Asking the fans to accept them as they are today, the same as before yet different at the same time:

    ”I believe it would be fair to say
    You look bewildered
    And you wonder why I'm here today
    And so you should, I would
    When I left I felt I'd had enough
    But in the shape and form I appear now
    I have learned to cope
    And love and hope is why I am here now

    And now you see another me, I've been reloaded, yeah
    I'm fired up, don't shut me down
    I'm like a dream within a dream that's been decoded
    I'm fired up, I'm hot, don't shut me down

    I'm not the one you knew
    I'm now and then combined
    And I'm asking you to have an open mind
    I'm not the same this time around
    I'm fired up, don't shut me down”

    See what I mean? But when it comes to the whole album it could be another story, and in that case you seem to be right, David!

    At least the songs Just A Notion and Bumble Bee aka Free As A Bumble Bee seen in the Voyage tracklisting are indeed very likely to be old songs written during the Voulez-Vous sessions in 1978. Snippets of both tracks can be heard in Abba Undeleted, the archive medley on their 1994 box set Thank You For The Music. Having heard those excerpts I truly hope they’ve given both songs a proper, very thorough revamp, but that’s another subject for some other forum…

    One thing’s for sure: a certain date in November will be a release day like none before, and I mean ever! Both Abba and Diana Ross releasing new albums on the very same day? Simply *unbelievable*. To quote a great female solo artist: Thank you for, thank you for that, I just wanna say thank you! And then add a little something from a certain Swedish group: Thank you for the – new – music, graçias por la musica!

    Can’t wait.
    Last edited by Shockwaves; 09-08-2021 at 05:52 AM.

  15. #15
    Since I am from Sweden I should propably be team ABBA on this. However, I love ms Ross beyond words and really hope her new album will be a hit. I just wish Diana was better at marketing herself. I think it would be a great idea to let Tracee interview Diana on instagram. Tracee has a large fanbase on insta, and is super funny as well.

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    Diana has not been seen in public for 18 months ??

    A decades old pic is used on the new cd.

    it’s her choice to push hard or do little. So far she has done little, and thus only excited some of her hardcore fans.

    A musical reunion is so very exciting and generates great publicity and fanfare. A new cd cannot compete, especially when the artist’s track record has been less than impressive for the past 30 years and so far has done very little work to light the fire.
    Last edited by Circa 1824; 09-08-2021 at 07:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    Ran, I agree. For me, Diana seems "lazy". The last two times I saw her, which was over a year apart, it was the same EXACT show, with the same EXACT gowns. I ate up every minute of it, of course. But Diana knows that. She knows she'll always have a fan base, knows she could come out in mumu and sing the Alphabet Song 16 times and the fans would say it was the most fabulous thing they'd ever seen. Diana is Diana, and hasn't reinvented herself in years. ABBA on the horizon is fresh and exciting, with new music, new tour, new group photos.....not some outtakes from 1986 or 1996.
    Yup. I said the same thing some time ago, that Diana is lazy, as in her thinking is lazy. Clearly the lady will work. But she doesn't think outside the box. When is the last time she took a chance on anything? She did the perfume, but personally I feel like that's something she should have done 30 years ago. At this point who was really walking around thinking "I want to smell like Diana Ross"? She is as much associated with fashion as she is with music, so I've also never understood why she hasn't gotten involved in that somehow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I agree with the points you raise Ran. Perhaps and even maybe Diana is saving herself for promotion of the album. I certainly hope that is the reason she is nowhere to be seen. Perhaps non personal promotion was a clause in her signing with Decca.
    Perhaps, but which side petitioned for the clause, Diana or Decca?

    Ya know, it's a shame that Dreamgirls co-opted the story of the Supremes and Diana Ross. I'm not sure there will ever be an opportunity to separate that fiction from the factual story. But considering the Supremes and Diana Ross' iconic discography, one would think the music would be ripe for a jukebox musical movie such as Mamma Mia. Something like that could've introduced Diana to a new generation of fans.

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    Despite being off the scene for nearly 40 years, ABBA and their label are professionals.

    That's the main difference.

    The only thing that could probably have overshadowed this 'reunion' of ABBA's was if the Beatles had reformed. There are probably no other musical groups that had such outstanding success over a few years and then retired while still at the top.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Perhaps, but which side petitioned for the clause, Diana or Decca?

    Ya know, it's a shame that Dreamgirls co-opted the story of the Supremes and Diana Ross. I'm not sure there will ever be an opportunity to separate that fiction from the factual story. But considering the Supremes and Diana Ross' iconic discography, one would think the music would be ripe for a jukebox musical movie such as Mamma Mia. Something like that could've introduced Diana to a new generation of fans.
    Supremes The Musical. Wouldn’t that be something.
    As we know, Dreamgirls was loosely based on the Supremes so I’m guessing the thinking is its already been done, even though it hasn’t.
    A stage musical would be the perfect vehicle, although the real saga would not contain the feel good, chocolate box ending of DG which might possibly hinder its commercial appeal for those who like fluffy endings.
    Agee in that it could/would have introduced them to a while new generation and underscored their vital importance and significance in music history.
    Last edited by Ollie9; 09-09-2021 at 05:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post

    Ya know, it's a shame that Dreamgirls co-opted the story of the Supremes and Diana Ross. I'm not sure there will ever be an opportunity to separate that fiction from the factual story.
    The time to have done that would've been around 1986-89 - 25th anniversary - a new album and world tour by Diana, Mary & Cindy.

    You wouldn't have even had to use '25 years since group formed'. '25 years since WDOLG' would have been fine.

    You would certainly not have had the REAL story of the Supremes though - just the sugar-coated story, but it could have been a great opportunity for all concerned.

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    Lazy, whether in professionalism or thinking, is not a word that comes to my mind when thinking of Diana Ross's new album. The fact that she releases a new album at the age of 77 is in itself just wonderful and I think she is beyond the point that it has to be a multi-million seller or to compete with anybody. Her show has indeed hardly changed in more than two decades, but she delivers what people expect from her, and I personally prefer to see a 20-year-old show with some new tunes added, than a revival of a 1970s group with the use of avatars. I always hoped that a new "comeback" Diana Ross album would be a more "soul" album rather than pop dance songs alternated with ballads, similar to the Bettye LaVette comeback albums. Obviously I would still like that, but the release of the singles "Thank You" and "If The World Just Danced" -- which I both enjoy, although I prefer the Ross retro-sound of "Thank You" -- has made me realize that this works best for Ross. Singing "fluffy", in the good sense of the word, songs with lyrics that would sound rather plain when other singers would sing them, is her strength. Her songs make a lot of people feel good, and that's what she does best.

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    So far, this new cd seems to be her recent Tweets put to music. While they are nice sentiments, they have not been musical masterpieces.
    Last edited by Circa 1824; 09-09-2021 at 09:02 AM.

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    Thiis thread sorely needs the @Hluebrock stamp of dis/approval.

  25. #25
    We don't need anyone's approval. Anyway why are Diana fans so concerned about Abba?Yes both have a huge following but comparing them is like comparing apples to oranges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaap View Post
    Lazy, whether in professionalism or thinking, is not a word that comes to my mind when thinking of Diana Ross's new album. The fact that she releases a new album at the age of 77 is in itself just wonderful and I think she is beyond the point that it has to be a multi-million seller or to compete with anybody. Her show has indeed hardly changed in more than two decades, but she delivers what people expect from her, and I personally prefer to see a 20-year-old show with some new tunes added, than a revival of a 1970s group with the use of avatars. I always hoped that a new "comeback" Diana Ross album would be a more "soul" album rather than pop dance songs alternated with ballads, similar to the Bettye LaVette comeback albums. Obviously I would still like that, but the release of the singles "Thank You" and "If The World Just Danced" -- which I both enjoy, although I prefer the Ross retro-sound of "Thank You" -- has made me realize that this works best for Ross. Singing "fluffy", in the good sense of the word, songs with lyrics that would sound rather plain when other singers would sing them, is her strength. Her songs make a lot of people feel good, and that's what she does best.
    She certainly has nothing to prove Jaap, but a little promotion could make all the difference between a a hit or a miss. The music is really good so why not get behind it.
    I disagree about the show. I would much rather see a totally brand new show, complete with avatars then hear lack lustre renditions of the same old songs over and over and over again. I honestly don’t think I could physically sit through another performance of “I Will Survive”.
    Hopefully when the new album is released we will see a little more of her. I’m hoping there is a killer ballad tucked away somewhere.

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    Diana certainly could have had some new photos and promos taken for the album. Using 10 or 20 year old photos is, well, lazy.

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    She has not had any photos done [to my knowledge) since I Love You. And even then they were not used for the cover artwork.

    No new photos for tours, the Christmas and remix albums etc. I was surprised to see a more recent picture on the back of Supertonic though, but that was a concert photo. I guess she just prefers older images but I would have liked some new photos for Thank You.


    As for Abba, it is without a doubt one of the biggest musical comebacks in history. Like them or not, that is a fact. No one ever expected a new album from them, so that fact one is coming out is huge.

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    I think it's unfair to say Diana Ross is "lazy". She didn't have to record a new album. And unlike all of her previous albums, she actually had a hand in co-writing a good portion of the songs. She put in the work in the studio and in preparation. I doubt this album would have ever have happened if it weren't for the pandemic which meant she couldn't tour and perform so she went into the studio as her creative and performing outlet.

    As for promotion, we're still in a pandemic so I get why she has made the choice not to travel or promote with concerts or TV appearances. Also, despite enjoying performing and connecting with an audience, by all accounts family is her top priority, not going out there to promote. She's not going to change now. I'm still surprised that she recorded this album. So she's not lazy, she did the work. But she has her priorities in life.

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    The Thank YOu album was initially supposed to come out this month, but Decca pushed it back to November. No doubt to capitalize on the holiday shopping season. I wonder if Decca was aware of the ABBA project? And were they blindsided when Abba announced they were releasing their album same day as Thank You? That must not have made Decca very happy. Perhaps they should have stuck to their original release date instead?

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    No one is saying the lady doesn't put in work, but sorry, not sorry, for the last 30 years she has done the bare minimum "required" for the job. She worked her ass off at Motown. While her RCA period was often marked, IMO, by lazy creativity, she was still out there maintaining her relevance and from time to time giving the world that thing that makes her so beloved the globe over.

    The initial question was "Reasons for why Abba is getting more attention than Diana Ross...". One could argue answering that question with a question: "Reason why Abba appears to be more relevant than Diana Ross?". Answer: Abba put in the work to maintain that relevancy, even when they haven't performed in a gazillion years. Diana? Not so much, and she performs all the time [[pre-pandemic).

    I do agree with Jaap that a more soulful album would've been what I wanted to hear from her at this point. Clearly this new album has some autotuned ingredient, which is always sad to hear utilized by the talented. I really wish she would do what Patti does, singing in the living room with a piano. I know Diana's voice isn't what it used to be, but a lot of that I think is her trying to cut through orchestration when her voice hasn't held up to what it once was. If she sang with just piano accompaniment or acoustic accompaniment, I really believe she'd give the folks something to get into. Also it would allow her the opportunity to delve deeper into her catalog for those songs we fans always want to hear her do but she never does.

    There just always seems like there's so much she can do, but she doesn't. She's grown, she's elderly, she's a legend, so the fact is that she doesn't ever have to do a damn thing for the rest of her life if she doesn't want to. But as a fan, it's disappointing.

    PS- I'm sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooo sick of her children. I'm soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sick of hearing her talk about them so much. It one thing to do it every now and then, as you expect any proud parent to do. But damn, give it a rest lady!

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    The answer is much simpler: Diana does not have professional management for decades. This hurt her career more than any other factor.


    I'm aware she did substantial money on the touring circuit managing herself, but it did not make her highly visible or strategic in terms of keeping the career flame.


    She is a great superstar but she is no business manager, and since the early 80's she's acting like her own manager.

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    Motown the Musical could be seen as using Broadway/musical theater as a vehicle to keep the Motown legacy alive and certainly Diana Ross/Supremes benefited by the show. But what story the show had was a sugarcoated corporate biography with Berry at the center.

    Mamma Mia was more clever. Sure the story was fluff, but it wasn't an ABBA band biography juke box musical. ABBA's songs were used to support the silly story. It was escapist fluff, but audiences seem to enjoy it and that help build the ABBA brand for fun pop music.

    So if a show were to be created based on the Supremes/Diana Ross song catalog, instead of a biography of the group or Miss Ross, how about a story musical? May be a tougher sell, but if done right, it would be a pleasure for audiences.

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    The hit musical is the answer to the question - it kept Abba out there, right front and centre; even people that didn't really know Abba know about the musical.

    I'm not so sure a Supremes musical would work - only because there has been Dreamgirls and Motown the Musical. Both were major successes but I don't really think either was regarded as great stories that will always be remembered - perhaps, but I don't think so. And those projects might have removed the possibility of a Supremes musical. I also think there were always limitations on what Berry and Diana would allow. I think Berry's consent to the use of music limited what Mary was able to do. It would be interesting to know how long Berry has control over the use of the music - throughout his life, Diana's life and the lives of their children????

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spreadinglove21 View Post

    Mamma Mia was more clever. Sure the story was fluff, but it wasn't an ABBA band biography juke box musical. ABBA's songs were used to support the silly story. It was escapist fluff, but audiences seem to enjoy it and that help build the ABBA brand for fun pop music.

    So if a show were to be created based on the Supremes/Diana Ross song catalog, instead of a biography of the group or Miss Ross, how about a story musical? May be a tougher sell, but if done right, it would be a pleasure for audiences.
    That was my point, which is why I used Mamma Mia as the example, as opposed to something like the new Aretha movie. Dreamgirls basically killed any chance for a Supremes movie as a musical because the public will have a "been there, seen that" attitude to it. So something like Mamma Mia featuring the Supremes and Diana Ross music just makes more sense.

    Also interesting to note that Motown music does resonate with younger audiences, and of course the Supremes and Diana Ross are a major part of that. There probably isn't a person alive over 15 who doesn't know "Baby Love", "Stop", "Hurry Love", "Mountain", maybe even "Hangover" or "Upside Down". The problem is that the Motown Sound has overshadowed the individual artists, for the most part, and it's all viewed as one big collective, as opposed to the younger folks differentiating between the various acts. Even Marvin and Stevie, who never seem to go out of style with anyone, I think they are viewed as "relevant" today because of their work in the 70s rather than what they did in the 60s, even though, like with the Supremes, the kids know "Grapevine" and "Uptight", etc. Hope I'm making sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spreadinglove21 View Post
    I think it's unfair to say Diana Ross is "lazy". She didn't have to record a new album. And unlike all of her previous albums, she actually had a hand in co-writing a good portion of the songs. She put in the work in the studio and in preparation. I doubt this album would have ever have happened if it weren't for the pandemic which meant she couldn't tour and perform so she went into the studio as her creative and performing outlet.

    As for promotion, we're still in a pandemic so I get why she has made the choice not to travel or promote with concerts or TV appearances. Also, despite enjoying performing and connecting with an audience, by all accounts family is her top priority, not going out there to promote. She's not going to change now. I'm still surprised that she recorded this album. So she's not lazy, she did the work. But she has her priorities in life.
    Well stated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spreadinglove21 View Post
    I think it's unfair to say Diana Ross is "lazy". She didn't have to record a new album. And unlike all of her previous albums, she actually had a hand in co-writing a good portion of the songs. She put in the work in the studio and in preparation. I doubt this album would have ever have happened if it weren't for the pandemic which meant she couldn't tour and perform so she went into the studio as her creative and performing outlet.

    As for promotion, we're still in a pandemic so I get why she has made the choice not to travel or promote with concerts or TV appearances. Also, despite enjoying performing and connecting with an audience, by all accounts family is her top priority, not going out there to promote. She's not going to change now. I'm still surprised that she recorded this album. So she's not lazy, she did the work. But she has her priorities in life.
    Calling Diana Ross lazy is the epitome of stuPXXX unawareness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Circa 1824 View Post
    Diana has not been seen in public for 18 months ??

    A decades old pic is used on the new cd.

    it’s her choice to push hard or do little. So far she has done little, and thus only excited some of her hardcore fans.

    A musical reunion is so very exciting and generates great publicity and fanfare. A new cd cannot compete, especially when the artist’s track record has been less than impressive for the past 30 years and so far has done very little work to light the fire.
    Nail on head points Circa. I also think obvious cost cutting as in the last album and concert presentation has had an impact.
    As a fan I’m really hoping the new album does well, but without a modicum of personal promotion risks slipping by quietly into the night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    Calling Diana Ross lazy is the epitome of stuPXXX unawareness.
    We cannot confuse Diana’s Motown years’ work ethic with her post-Motown work ethic. The word lazy does apply to the latter.
    Last edited by Circa 1824; 09-10-2021 at 12:32 PM.

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    Because they are real, talented legends … simply put

  41. #41
    For those who are interested read on, for those who are not interested please scroll on.

    UK Top 100 singles for w/e 10/9/2021

    https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/singles-chart/

    Abba Lots of promotion on every media known to man.

    #9 Don't Shut me Down
    #14 I Still have Faith in You

    Diana Ross No promotion whatsoever

    If the World just Danced - uncharted

    Things just don't happen, you have to make them happen!

    UK Top 100 Albums w/e 10/9/2021

    https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/albums-chart/

    'Abba Gold' re-enters the top 10 in it's 1010th nonconsecutive week on the charts. Several other Abba albums have also re-entered the chart. See what a couple of new tracks and a lot of promotion can achieve.

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    Was ABBA ever signed to Motown or a Motown affilated label? If not, they really don't belong in a discussion on this particular message board...just sayin..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia View Post
    Was ABBA ever signed to Motown or a Motown affilated label? If not, they really don't belong in a discussion on this particular message board...just sayin..
    It's a thread comparing Miss Ross' first release in years with that of a contemporary artist doing much the same thing.

    Half of the 'former ladies' discussed regularly on these boards were never signed to Motown either, just sayin.

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    There is much more excitement for ABBA because of a number of things-Mamma Mia is well known to the current generation, ABBA has been elusive of reforming for many years and apparently turned down $1 B to reunite, ABBA had been part of the collective consciousness for a number of decades. There is much more press and publicity surrounding this long heralded return. In contrast, Diana Ross has not been absent from the public, she has never really received her due from the press and public, Mamma Mia used ABBA music but wasn't about them-Ross' fictionalized Broadway production Dreamgirls used none of their music ,wasn't the actual true story of the Supremes[[just closely resembled some parts of it), in her time Ross was named entertainer of the century but her recent music from the mid 80's on did not capture the public eye as much as her earlier work did-even comparing her work to Streisand or Aretha Franklin who continued on and had releases that were still heralded after their heyday. I am not sure if it is mismanagement, but Ross is just not promoted out there like the legend that she is. She still seems to enjoy performing and music, but it seems the strategy is quite different and it may be because she controls everything and does not have the managerial skills that lead to her initial successes. Still, both ABBA and Ross are legends but of a quite different sort and comparisons are not about their talent but public perception, tastes and the aforementioned promotions.

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    This is probably fake news considering the way I heard it, but I will ask anyhow and someone here will know.

    Is the actual group going on tour, or is it computer generated avatars?

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by copley View Post
    For those who are interested read on, for those who are not interested please scroll on.

    UK Top 100 singles for w/e 10/9/2021

    https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/singles-chart/

    Abba Lots of promotion on every media known to man.

    #9 Don't Shut me Down
    #14 I Still have Faith in You

    Diana Ross No promotion whatsoever

    If the World just Danced - uncharted

    Things just don't happen, you have to make them happen!

    UK Top 100 Albums w/e 10/9/2021

    https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/albums-chart/

    'Abba Gold' re-enters the top 10 in it's 1010th nonconsecutive week on the charts. Several other Abba albums have also re-entered the chart. See what a couple of new tracks and a lot of promotion can achieve.
    Really interesting facts and figures. Ta for posting this info copley.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim aka jtigre99 View Post
    There is much more excitement for ABBA because of a number of things-Mamma Mia is well known to the current generation, ABBA has been elusive of reforming for many years and apparently turned down $1 B to reunite, ABBA had been part of the collective consciousness for a number of decades. There is much more press and publicity surrounding this long heralded return. In contrast, Diana Ross has not been absent from the public, she has never really received her due from the press and public, Mamma Mia used ABBA music but wasn't about them-Ross' fictionalized Broadway production Dreamgirls used none of their music ,wasn't the actual true story of the Supremes[[just closely resembled some parts of it), in her time Ross was named entertainer of the century but her recent music from the mid 80's on did not capture the public eye as much as her earlier work did-even comparing her work to Streisand or Aretha Franklin who continued on and had releases that were still heralded after their heyday. I am not sure if it is mismanagement, but Ross is just not promoted out there like the legend that she is. She still seems to enjoy performing and music, but it seems the strategy is quite different and it may be because she controls everything and does not have the managerial skills that lead to her initial successes. Still, both ABBA and Ross are legends but of a quite different sort and comparisons are not about their talent but public perception, tastes and the aforementioned promotions.
    I enjoyed reading your post Jim. Your thoughts and observations being spot on, especially your last sentence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milven View Post
    This is probably fake news considering the way I heard it, but I will ask anyhow and someone here will know.

    Is the actual group going on tour, or is it computer generated avatars?
    It is computer generated 'abbatars'. If you watch the video for 'I Still Have Faith in You' on YouTube, you will see an example of them in the final minute of the clip.

    The abbatars will apparently be accompanied by a live band, although the ABBA vocals will obviously be pre-recorded.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by copley View Post
    For those who are interested read on, for those who are not interested please scroll on.

    UK Top 100 singles for w/e 10/9/2021

    https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/singles-chart/

    Abba Lots of promotion on every media known to man.

    #9 Don't Shut me Down
    #14 I Still have Faith in You

    Diana Ross No promotion whatsoever

    If the World just Danced - uncharted

    Things just don't happen, you have to make them happen!

    UK Top 100 Albums w/e 10/9/2021

    https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/albums-chart/

    'Abba Gold' re-enters the top 10 in it's 1010th nonconsecutive week on the charts. Several other Abba albums have also re-entered the chart. See what a couple of new tracks and a lot of promotion can achieve.


    The music world is totally different from what it was when Diana was to the forefront.

    Record sales have collapsed and the charts are almost totally controlled by streaming.

    Abba is a special case but no matter how much promotion was done on a Diana single the chances of it reaching the UK chart are minimal - streaming is mostly done by the younger generation and artists of Diana's ilk aren't consumed by the public in this way.

    The UK album chart is a mess - the top 3 streamed tracks of an album are counted as an album sale which is way the whole chart is cluttered with Greatest Hits albums - apart from first week sales by artists with big fan bases, physical sales are drastically reduced.

    I would say too it was the media rather than the record comoany which drove the Abba promotion.

    But Decca have to pull all the stops they can out to promote the album.

  50. #50
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    If you want a hit, you cannot sit home in sweats. You have to get your ass out there. It is your fire and your decision to light it or not. If it stays unlit, so be it.
    Last edited by Circa 1824; 09-11-2021 at 07:03 AM.

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