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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    THEN
    after six minutes or so of the ladies vamping back-and-forth with WE RE HERE AGAIN , the song fades out. The next cut begins . It’s the iconic ding of a bell and then the string stab , followed by a humming intro over guitar work.
    Wait , that’s not Thelma , or Teddy , that’s Diana! And she then proceeds into a spirited and not so different from those original versions take of DON’T LEAVE ME THIS WAY.
    Diana’s version at last !!

    The press eats the story up , two former Motown divas reuniting for a return stint at Motown and Diana Ross at last records the hit song that had always been intended for her !!
    The tunes are pressed on a shared promo 12” and they soar to the top of the disco /dance chart and perhaps beyond.


    Additional Bonus factor :
    Diana now has a new old disco encore song instead of using Gloria’s .
    Try cutting back on eating cheese at night Boog. It can make for the strangest dreams.
    But seriously, Regarding Thelma, her “Throw You Down” album of 1990 would have been
    perfect for Diana’s return to Motown album. A little more palatable for those who find “WO” a bit much.
    I would love to have heard her sing the slightly camp “A Man Who Isn’t Smooth”.

  2. #52
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    I just didn't like the title cut, Working Overtime.
    Part of the problem, I think Diana wasnt as involved in the production as she should of been. But there are good songs on WO and even on Eaten Alive.
    The first song killed the albums.
    I would have went back to Ashford and Simpson to produce.
    Also ,it seems there is never a plan B..
    But on both above albums I think both came out rather soulful and less pop.
    Surrender also suffered similar fate.
    I've always considered Diana a pop singer although that may not be how everyone else sees her.
    I think many songs just needed different mixs

  3. #53
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    Here's the video for Working Overtime.

  4. #54
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    Around the same time as Working Overtime Jody Watley, a singer who is always given credit to Diana Ross as an influence, did "Friends", with same concept as Working Overtime video, but done with a lot more style and edge.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Back in 81 that is exactly as i remember it mowsville. Friends who had never been particularly interested in her music before were suddenly digging this new funky Diana.
    “Mirror “Mirror” was a grade one funk/rock track, that unfortunately was marooned on an album of bland, vanilla, dime a dozen type songs. WDFFIL was a novelty hit.
    Her moment of being hip faded like a glorious sunset, never to be seen again.
    For what it is worth; Whites Records in the Detroit Renaissance Center had a decent display [[large poster) and ample supply of Ross 80 and sold quite well. Perfect marketing with the simple jeans and t shirt. She lost a Grammy [[Upside Down)to Stephanie Mills for Never Knew Love Like This Before. Diana's album spent one year on the American chart. Upside Down sold 1,000,000 units as did Mills. Interestingly, Ross' chart positions were somewhat higher than Mills. Was Ross cheated out of a Grammy for Upside Down?

    "Upside Down" is listed at number 77 onBillboard's "Greatest Hot 100 Songs of All Time" [[1958-2015)

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Try cutting back on eating cheese at night Boog. It can make for the strangest dreams.
    But seriously, Regarding Thelma, her “Throw You Down” album of 1990 would have been
    perfect for Diana’s return to Motown album. A little more palatable for those who find “WO” a bit much.
    I would love to have heard her sing the slightly camp “A Man Who Isn’t Smooth”.
    hee hee quite intuitive . I've gone Keto for the past few months. [and cheese is waaay overrated]



    Interesting song. I can hear Diana's voice on this ... but not the sentiments ....

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by detmotownguy View Post
    For what it is worth; Whites Records in the Detroit Renaissance Center had a decent display [[large poster) and ample supply of Ross 80 and sold quite well. Perfect marketing with the simple jeans and t shirt. She lost a Grammy [[Upside Down)to Stephanie Mills for Never Knew Love Like This Before. Diana's album spent one year on the American chart. Upside Down sold 1,000,000 units as did Mills. Interestingly, Ross' chart positions were somewhat higher than Mills. Was Ross cheated out of a Grammy for Upside Down?

    "Upside Down" is listed at number 77 onBillboard's "Greatest Hot 100 Songs of All Time" [[1958-2015)
    Interesting facts and figures. For me “Upside Down” being the more iconic song of the two should definitely have won. The same with “Endless Love”.
    I also think “Ain’t No Mountain High Enough” deserved some kind of recognition.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by detmotownguy View Post
    For what it is worth; Whites Records in the Detroit Renaissance Center had a decent display [[large poster) and ample supply of Ross 80 and sold quite well. Perfect marketing with the simple jeans and t shirt. She lost a Grammy [[Upside Down)to Stephanie Mills for Never Knew Love Like This Before. Diana's album spent one year on the American chart. Upside Down sold 1,000,000 units as did Mills. Interestingly, Ross' chart positions were somewhat higher than Mills. Was Ross cheated out of a Grammy for Upside Down?
    Stephanie Mills beat Ross at her own game. "Never Knew Love Like This Before" is about as jubilant as R&B/Soul music came. Mills' vocal is exuberant and emotive, and the musical arrangement was very "pop." The song expresses all the positive sentiment that Ross has labored to incorporate into her image and persona as a recording artist -- before and after she got lost in the RCA wilderness. "Upside Down" is fantastic but an entirely different mood. Strictly a matter of taste. For whatever reason Grammy voters never favored Ross but she was often nominated.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by detmotownguy View Post
    For what it is worth; Whites Records in the Detroit Renaissance Center had a decent display [[large poster) and ample supply of Ross 80 and sold quite well. Perfect marketing with the simple jeans and t shirt. She lost a Grammy [[Upside Down)to Stephanie Mills for Never Knew Love Like This Before. Diana's album spent one year on the American chart. Upside Down sold 1,000,000 units as did Mills. Interestingly, Ross' chart positions were somewhat higher than Mills. Was Ross cheated out of a Grammy for Upside Down?

    "Upside Down" is listed at number 77 onBillboard's "Greatest Hot 100 Songs of All Time" [[1958-2015)
    IMO this was not a case of Diana being robbed. "Never Knew Love Like This Before" is just a more well done song IMO. Diana's "Upside Down" was funky, danceable and simple. Nothing complicated. Sort of reminiscent of those very early Supremes hits in the sense that it was easy to sing along to. I just don't think it could stand a chance up against Stephanie's "Never", a song I absolutely love btw.

    The right woman won.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy View Post
    Stephanie Mills beat Ross at her own game. "Never Knew Love Like This Before" is about as jubilant as R&B/Soul music came. Mills' vocal is exuberant and emotive, and the musical arrangement was very "pop." The song expresses all the positive sentiment that Ross has labored to incorporate into her image and persona as a recording artist -- before and after she got lost in the RCA wilderness. "Upside Down" is fantastic but an entirely different mood. Strictly a matter of taste. For whatever reason Grammy voters never favored Ross but she was often nominated.
    Agree 100 percent. And the fact that Diana never won a Grammy is a travesty, but I cannot make a case for "Upside" over "Never". Never.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    IMO this was not a case of Diana being robbed. "Never Knew Love Like This Before" is just a more well done song IMO. Diana's "Upside Down" was funky, danceable and simple. Nothing complicated. Sort of reminiscent of those very early Supremes hits in the sense that it was easy to sing along to. I just don't think it could stand a chance up against Stephanie's "Never", a song I absolutely love btw.

    The right woman won.
    maybe for best song, but what about best album? should diana 80 have won? was it even nominated?

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    maybe for best song, but what about best album? should diana 80 have won? was it even nominated?
    Diana's only Grammy nomination that year was for the single UPSIDE DOWN. She fared better at the American Music Awards where she won Favorite Soul Female and Favorite Soul Single.

    At the time, I was pissed that Stephanie Mills won over Diana. I just knew Diana was going to nab the award. But as the years have passed, I have to admit that like others above had said, the right woman won. In hindsight, I can also admit that I like all of the other nominated recordings more than UPSIDE DOWN [[I'll leave Minnie Riperton's album out since I've never heard it).

    UPSIDE DOWN had a nice vocal and a groove that was catchy but I don't think there was anything especially outstanding about it. In truth, I could say the same about the "diana" album. I think is a nice piece of work but in my personal Diana list, many of her other albums come before it.
    Last edited by reese; 08-16-2021 at 12:39 PM.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    maybe for best song, but what about best album? should diana 80 have won? was it even nominated?
    Wasn't nominated. Source: http://www.awardsandshows.com/featur...-1981-229.html
    Singles:
    Best Rhythm & Blues Vocal Performance - Female
    The nominees were:

    • Stephanie Mills - Never Knew Love Like This Before Lyrics
    • Aretha Franklin - Can't Turn You Loose
    • Minnie Riperton - Love Lives Forever
    • Roberta Flack - Roberta Flack featuring Donny Hathaway
    • Diana Ross - Upside Down Lyrics

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    I just didn't like the title cut, Working Overtime.
    Part of the problem, I think Diana wasnt as involved in the production as she should of been. But there are good songs on WO and even on Eaten Alive.
    The first song killed the albums.
    I would have went back to Ashford and Simpson to produce.
    Also ,it seems there is never a plan B..
    But on both above albums I think both came out rather soulful and less pop.
    Surrender also suffered similar fate.
    I've always considered Diana a pop singer although that may not be how everyone else sees her.
    I think many songs just needed different mixs
    WO: In Detroit she asked the Fox Theater [[sold out prob 3000) audience what they thought of the WO material after she sang a few songs. Response = luke warm to say the least. A patron stated you can do better than this. I don't think she cared for it [[WO) either. Lastly, she was def not into the Sups obligatory medley that was very rushed. My customers went to see her leave outside in back of the theater, but she bailed the hell outta there pretty quick. Has she ever publicly discussed the WO project?

  15. #65
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    some fans and members on here have shared that she wasn't thrilled with the material. of course there hasn't been anything official or public about WO. I think it was a matter of timing, being rush. Niles was also apparently having some substance abuse issues which Diana does not like. That's just sort of my recap from what others have said

    my thoughts on the WO set are that these songs weren't right for Diana not so much because of the style of the music. but more so that Niles didn't pick appropriate keys for her. i get it that some song sound best in certain keys. ok - so if the song really can't be transposed into a lower key for her, then maybe that's not the song for her. and a lot of the material on WO is too high. many of them fall right on the crack in her voice which is the weakest range.

    a good producer should have been prepared and knowledgeable of the artist's voice and strengths. of course they should push them to reach and strive but they should also know what they can/can't do. or should/shouldn't do

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post

    my thoughts on the WO set are that these songs weren't right for Diana not so much because of the style of the music. but more so that Niles didn't pick appropriate keys for her. i get it that some song sound best in certain keys. ok - so if the song really can't be transposed into a lower key for her, then maybe that's not the song for her. and a lot of the material on WO is too high. many of them fall right on the crack in her voice which is the weakest range.
    Often singers will record a song in a higher key in the studio, knowing that they will drop the key in concert. I've seen everyone from Gladys to Diana do this, as she did with WYTMTYLM.

    It could be that Diana was fine with the keys on WO. When she sang those songs live, I don't think she dropped the key. But I did notice that when she did THIS HOUSE live, one of her backup singers would take over the higher parts during the bridge.

  17. #67
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    see i think she sounds strained on WO lp. and i get it that producers often push the singers into those upper ranges in order to add drama and all. but at the same point, if it just doesn't sound good, the drama is lost

    similar to Over The Rainbow on L&F. That was a track, according to the liner notes, intended for another artist and so the key was higher. but then Diana added her vocals to it. she does a valiant job but the result isn't her strongest ever.

    IMO maybe some of the WO tracks were just songs the producer had kicking around and they dusted them off for Diana. rather than rewriting them or finding other songs that might work better

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    IMO maybe some of the WO tracks were just songs the producer had kicking around and they dusted them off for Diana.
    That's never been the way Nile worked. He usually starts with a blank slate and writes specifically for the artists. Although he & Bernard once swapped a song intended for Chic [[He's the Greatest Dancer) with one intended for Sister Sledge [[I Want Your Love).

    He wasn't firing on all cylinders due to drugs & drink during the time of WO though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    see i think she sounds strained on WO lp. and i get it that producers often push the singers into those upper ranges in order to add drama and all. but at the same point, if it just doesn't sound good, the drama is lost

    similar to Over The Rainbow on L&F. That was a track, according to the liner notes, intended for another artist and so the key was higher. but then Diana added her vocals to it. she does a valiant job but the result isn't her strongest ever.

    IMO maybe some of the WO tracks were just songs the producer had kicking around and they dusted them off for Diana. rather than rewriting them or finding other songs that might work better
    that track and mcarthur park give me conniptions. They are so damn high, but I agree with you, she tries her best. I think Bristol just wanted to bill out the tracks to ANYONE after Jr Walker rejected them, and new he could get away with it with DR&TS. Those cuts make her out of range cuts on WO seem comfortable! This first time I heard Rainbow, knowing how it modulates, I expected to need oxygen before the last chorus. God bless her!

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    Quote Originally Posted by detmotownguy View Post
    For what it is worth; Whites Records in the Detroit Renaissance Center had a decent display [[large poster) and ample supply of Ross 80 and sold quite well. Perfect marketing with the simple jeans and t shirt. She lost a Grammy [[Upside Down)to Stephanie Mills for Never Knew Love Like This Before. Diana's album spent one year on the American chart. Upside Down sold 1,000,000 units as did Mills. Interestingly, Ross' chart positions were somewhat higher than Mills. Was Ross cheated out of a Grammy for Upside Down?

    "Upside Down" is listed at number 77 onBillboard's "Greatest Hot 100 Songs of All Time" [[1958-2015)
    i think Ross has been cheated, but not this time. The award is for vocal, and Mill’s vocal is simply stronger and more intricate that what was required of Ross. I bought Mill’s 45 the first time I heard it. A Grammy for best R&B record, I think definitely belonged to upside down it was a brilliant 45.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    that track and mcarthur park give me conniptions. They are so damn high, but I agree with you, she tries her best. I think Bristol just wanted to bill out the tracks to ANYONE after Jr Walker rejected them, and new he could get away with it with DR&TS. Those cuts make her out of range cuts on WO seem comfortable! This first time I heard Rainbow, knowing how it modulates, I expected to need oxygen before the last chorus. God bless her!
    LOL. “What Can One Person Do” is almost baritone in comparison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    that track and mcarthur park give me conniptions. They are so damn high, but I agree with you, she tries her best. I think Bristol just wanted to bill out the tracks to ANYONE after Jr Walker rejected them, and new he could get away with it with DR&TS. Those cuts make her out of range cuts on WO seem comfortable! This first time I heard Rainbow, knowing how it modulates, I expected to need oxygen before the last chorus. God bless her!
    hahaha - yeah i agree that they're just not the strongest recordings. Rainbow is one that just has to be perfect or else don't do it. it's so iconic and anything less than perfect will be considered unforgiveable

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    i think Ross has been cheated, but not this time. The award is for vocal, and Mill’s vocal is simply stronger and more intricate that what was required of Ross. I bought Mill’s 45 the first time I heard it. A Grammy for best R&B record, I think definitely belonged to upside down it was a brilliant 45.
    it would depend on the Grammy category. for best R&B vocal performance - no i don't think UD is the best. for "song of the year" that might be a different story. the song simply became a phenomenon. also UD as part of the overall set of diana 80 has more stylistic and artistic impact IMO than UD just by itself. therefore the album should have been nominated

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    Imagine if Working Overtime had included a cover of Jimmy Webb's Beyond Myself from the JML Webb album, recorded in the same key as Jean had to sing/screech in but with Nile Rodgers turning it into a New Jack Swing production?

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    Diana's "Over the Rainbow" was unlistenable to me for the longest time. Yikes! It doesn't sound as bad as I originally thought, as time has gone by, but it's definitely among the songs that I would never play if someone asked me why I'm a fan. And I damn sure wouldn't play it in a debate of whether or not Diana Ross can sing. Lol

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    yeah it's great to have on the L&F set for fans but is something i don't include on playlists or play for others either

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    hahaha - yeah i agree that they're just not the strongest recordings. Rainbow is one that just has to be perfect or else don't do it. it's so iconic and anything less than perfect will be considered unforgiveable
    Agree. It’s only Judy Garland and Eva Cassidy for me.

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