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  1. #1
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    I guess I値l miss the man promotion

    I just ran across this ad and it reminded me of the amount of press the Supremes produced by Jimmy Webb received initially. It was hyped quite a bit, much more than the fact that they had just worked with smoky and there was almost no press except for a blurb in jet. Of course, I don稚 think in its present form that this was material suitable for Pop radio play, they must have felt it had a Roberta Flack quality to it who was red hot at the time. Billboard review and ad below.



    i can稚 get them to post.
    Last edited by TheMotownManiac; 06-26-2021 at 07:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    I just ran across this ad and it reminded me of the amount of press the Supremes produced by Jimmy Webb received initially. It was hyped quite a bit, much more than the fact that they had just worked with smoky and there was almost no press except for a blurb in jet. Of course, I don’t think in its present form that this was material suitable for Pop radio play, they must have felt it had a Roberta Flack quality to it who was red hot at the time. Billboard review and ad below.



    i can’t get them to post.
    I actually liked IGIMTM. I never thought it to be hit single material, but it's a lovely song beautifully performed by Jean. I can relate to the Roberta Flack comnection. Maybe, just maybe they thought they could tap into that market.
    Sadly the rest of the album was dire, and it deservedly sank without trace.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I actually liked IGIMTM. I never thought it to be hit single material, but it's a lovely song beautifully performed by Jean. I can relate to the Roberta Flack comnection. Maybe, just maybe they thought they could tap into that market.
    Sadly the rest of the album was dire, and it deservedly sank without trace.
    I love it too, and she even topped that vocal on Mike Douglas. I can稚 imagine what they were thinking if it wasn稚 the Roberta Flack connection. Sometimes people can be too close to a performance to be objective about it痴 commercial viability, and I think this is one of those cases. The beauty of Jean痴 vocal wasn稚 enough. Of course, it痴 blamed on sabotage or lack of promotion. I知 going to keep trying to post the ad. It痴 not a must, but it痴 different.

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    I consider “IGIMTM” to be a beautiful, haunting song with a soft, delicate and rather melancholy vocal from Jean. You can almost hear the desolation in her voice as she sings it. I agree that her performance on the Mike Douglas show is indeed riveting.
    It was one of those songs the public were either going to embrace or turn their backs on. Perhaps the fact it was more Roberta Flack then what was expected from the Supremes that held it back.
    I certainly consider it her best performance on a less then stellar album.This and “Bad Weather” really deserved more then they got.

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    I think it's a beautiful song too and Jean performed it good live as well. Of the album I think it was definitely the best choice for a single release. Sadly it didn't do well on the charts. What happened here in the UK? They had both Floy Joy and Automatically sunshine hit the top 10 and then neither Your wonderful sweet sweet love and I guess I'll miss the man not even hitting the UK chart.

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    I think the Supremes were in a very precarious situation. They were criticized if they didn't sound exactly like they did in the 60's and they were criticized when they attempted new sounds. Whenever the Supremes did a ballad as a single release-Touch and I Guess I'll Miss The Man- no matter how beautiful it was apparently the mass public and critics would not embrace it because it didn't have the same sound as the 60's Supremes did. Yet, Diana Ross released ballads successfully and was allowed to grow. The same was true for Mary Wilson, when she sang ballads even fans would say I want to hear something else from her and when she did sing dance or rock they would complain that they felt it wasn't as good as when she sang ballads-so she was damned if she did, damned if she didn't. The same was true for the Supremes after the initial 70's start. IGIMTM was a very good song, maybe not top 10 but at least top 40 and maybe top 10 easy listening. Bad Weather merged their sound with Stevie's musicality and it was an interesting blend and precursor to the disco era. Surely, IGIMTM hitting only #85 and BW at only #87 was showing the public indifference when the Supremes tried something new and the industry and Motown not really behind the new sound and change. Jimmy Webb was my least favorite of all of the Jean years LPs, her voice sounded so nasal and shrill, it was off putting, the only cuts that stood out were IGIMTM and Mary's lead on I Keep It Hid. There were some good songs ,but the overall LP was just the wrong sound and direction. I think Floy Joy and Automatically Sunshine were somewhat updated throwbacks to their previous sound and why they were the last top 40 songs during the Jean Years. Motown was thinking movies and obviously had no long term plans for the Supremes, they were on their own without the record company interest they had in the 1960's and 1970.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TYK1986 View Post
    I think it's a beautiful song too and Jean performed it good live as well. Of the album I think it was definitely the best choice for a single release. Sadly it didn't do well on the charts. What happened here in the UK? They had both Floy Joy and Automatically sunshine hit the top 10 and then neither Your wonderful sweet sweet love and I guess I'll miss the man not even hitting the UK chart.
    Your wonderful sweet sweet love peaked just outside of the UK top 50. At the time they only published the top 50, but i recall having access to the top 100 charts, and it peaked around no 52 or 53 as i recall.

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    Great vocal performance by Jean, as well as Mary and Lynda. This is actually one of my favorite Jean era songs. But it was probably a bad idea to go in that direction unless "I Guess" was the theme song to a movie. That's the only scenario where I see the public gravitating to it. Jim kind of touches on a truth regarding the Supremes: they really weren't known for ballads. Album cuts? Sure. But as singles, most of the Supremes singles were mid to up tempo songs. Of the hits, I think only "Love Is Here" and "I'm Gonna Make You Love Me" and "Someday" are ballads, or ballad adjacent. They really never did anything as slow as "Touch" or "Guess", and it's possible that the public wasn't wild about the change in pace from them. I suspect a mid to up tempo cut in place of "Touch" and "Guess" proves a more successful single.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim aka jtigre99 View Post
    I think the Supremes were in a very precarious situation. They were criticized if they didn't sound exactly like they did in the 60's and they were criticized when they attempted new sounds. Whenever the Supremes did a ballad as a single release-Touch and I Guess I'll Miss The Man- no matter how beautiful it was apparently the mass public and critics would not embrace it because it didn't have the same sound as the 60's Supremes did. Yet, Diana Ross released ballads successfully and was allowed to grow. The same was true for Mary Wilson, when she sang ballads even fans would say I want to hear something else from her and when she did sing dance or rock they would complain that they felt it wasn't as good as when she sang ballads-so she was damned if she did, damned if she didn't. The same was true for the Supremes after the initial 70's start. IGIMTM was a very good song, maybe not top 10 but at least top 40 and maybe top 10 easy listening. Bad Weather merged their sound with Stevie's musicality and it was an interesting blend and precursor to the disco era. Surely, IGIMTM hitting only #85 and BW at only #87 was showing the public indifference when the Supremes tried something new and the industry and Motown not really behind the new sound and change. Jimmy Webb was my least favorite of all of the Jean years LPs, her voice sounded so nasal and shrill, it was off putting, the only cuts that stood out were IGIMTM and Mary's lead on I Keep It Hid. There were some good songs ,but the overall LP was just the wrong sound and direction. I think Floy Joy and Automatically Sunshine were somewhat updated throwbacks to their previous sound and why they were the last top 40 songs during the Jean Years. Motown was thinking movies and obviously had no long term plans for the Supremes, they were on their own without the record company interest they had in the 1960's and 1970.
    no in way or form could anyone compare Touch or I Guess with Ross's ballads like Touch me In the morning, mahogany or others.

    Touch could have worked with some significant retooling. if it started out lush and all, instead of those odd militaristic snare drums and the creepy harmonics in the strings. And jean's vocals sound shrill compared to Mary's, as Jean is in her upper registers.

    I Guess is beautifully produced but the lyrics are very sad. gorgeous production but depressing topic. sort of like - Sleepin'

    So I think the Sups failed ballads aren't necessarily because the girls were breaking away from their typical sound but because the ballads were not commercially ideal

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim aka jtigre99 View Post
    I think the Supremes were in a very precarious situation. They were criticized if they didn't sound exactly like they did in the 60's and they were criticized when they attempted new sounds. Whenever the Supremes did a ballad as a single release-Touch and I Guess I'll Miss The Man- no matter how beautiful it was apparently the mass public and critics would not embrace it because it didn't have the same sound as the 60's Supremes did. Yet, Diana Ross released ballads successfully and was allowed to grow. The same was true for Mary Wilson, when she sang ballads even fans would say I want to hear something else from her and when she did sing dance or rock they would complain that they felt it wasn't as good as when she sang ballads-so she was damned if she did, damned if she didn't. The same was true for the Supremes after the initial 70's start. IGIMTM was a very good song, maybe not top 10 but at least top 40 and maybe top 10 easy listening. Bad Weather merged their sound with Stevie's musicality and it was an interesting blend and precursor to the disco era. Surely, IGIMTM hitting only #85 and BW at only #87 was showing the public indifference when the Supremes tried something new and the industry and Motown not really behind the new sound and change. Jimmy Webb was my least favorite of all of the Jean years LPs, her voice sounded so nasal and shrill, it was off putting, the only cuts that stood out were IGIMTM and Mary's lead on I Keep It Hid. There were some good songs ,but the overall LP was just the wrong sound and direction. I think Floy Joy and Automatically Sunshine were somewhat updated throwbacks to their previous sound and why they were the last top 40 songs during the Jean Years. Motown was thinking movies and obviously had no long term plans for the Supremes, they were on their own without the record company interest they had in the 1960's and 1970.
    but i do agree with your overall concept that the 70s sups weren't really able to move away from their old image and sound. and of course whomever decided they needed to keep the sequin look and the MOR content didn't help things

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    but i do agree with your overall concept that the 70s sups weren't really able to move away from their old image and sound. and of course whomever decided they needed to keep the sequin look and the MOR content didn't help things
    I think the mistake was moving to far away from the sound the group will be forever associated with. Update that sound and image by all means, but don’t lose the core of what you have. As good as she is, i don’t think the public ever truly accepted having Scherrie, with her powerful, gospel influenced voice belting out disco numbers as a true representation of who the Supremes were.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I think the mistake was moving to far away from the sound the group will be forever associated with. Update that sound and image by all means, but don’t lose the core of what you have. As good as she is, i don’t think the public ever truly accepted having Scherrie, with her powerful, gospel influenced voice belting out disco numbers as a true representation of who the Supremes were.
    That was my problem too Ollie. I love Scherrie's voice, but it was too far removed from the old sound to be widely accepted by the fans. Scherrie deserved to be a huge solo star rather than the 2nd most important member of an ailing girl group.
    I kind of lost a lt of interest in the Supremes when Jean left, and i am sure i was by no means alone.
    I was intrigued by the MSC line up, but when i saw Scherrie playing 2nd fiddle to Mary it was all over as far as i was conc鑽ned. Despite not thinking Scherrie was a natural fit for the group i was amazed how underused she was, especially in a live setting. If you are going to recruit a girl like Scherrie then for heavens sake utilise her to her best potential.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    That was my problem too Ollie. I love Scherrie's voice, but it was too far removed from the old sound to be widely accepted by the fans. Scherrie deserved to be a huge solo star rather than the 2nd most important member of an ailing girl group.
    I kind of lost a lt of interest in the Supremes when Jean left, and i am sure i was by no means alone.
    I was intrigued by the MSC line up, but when i saw Scherrie playing 2nd fiddle to Mary it was all over as far as i was conc鑽ned. Despite not thinking Scherrie was a natural fit for the group i was amazed how underused she was, especially in a live setting. If you are going to recruit a girl like Scherrie then for heavens sake utilise her to her best potential.
    interesting thoughts guys - love sharing these different POVs

    see i see the MJL era of going more r&b as drifting further away from the "Supremes image and sound" less glam, less pop.

    i think the "ideal" version of the scherrie years would absolutely have moved back into a more 'Supremes' style.
    *the Ivey Woodford tracks on Sup 75 show a very strong pop sensibility. Scherrie is lead on the majority of the tracks and has a glorious voice. Mary has her rightful spotlight here and there and Cindy gets some too. plus the 3-part harmony is amazing
    *the Holland's disco work should have been huge. Disco [[like a lot of dance music) had the potential to slip into just mindless thumping. where the backing track was the star. The Supremes disco music usually went against this. there's melody and often solid lyrics.
    *disco was heavily associated with the glamorous lifestyle - fashion, being seen, glitz. the Supremes' image could have worked perfectly with this

    so when i say the "ideal" i'm basically meaning the version we've all chatted about here in the forum, not what actually happened.

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    I think the Webb album was a brave attempt to create their own identity but totally the wrong direction. I think the same of disco.
    They should have chosen a singer similar in sound to Jean and gone for a Rufus type album. Perhaps slightly sweetened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I think the Webb album was a brave attempt to create their own identity but totally the wrong direction. I think the same of disco.
    They should have chosen a singer similar in sound to Jean and gone for a Rufus type album. Perhaps slightly sweetened.
    i agree. i think the move into something less toney and pop was smart of late 72. Singer/songwriters were the rage so tap into them. while i'm not a massive fan of Webb, i don't think the selection of him was totally wrong. at least it COULD have worked. but the execution was so fucked up. the cover art, the lack of big well known JW hits, the added voices, the heavy-handed production style.

    as i've said before, some other singer/songwriters might have been a better fit. I think Carole king would have been marvelous

    also Pam Sawyer had been doing so much work with the Sups and other artists, i believe under Frank Wilson's tutelage. she had done wonderful work and IMO deserved to have a full lp turned over to her by this time. Plus what a wonderful concept - the world's #1 female group being produced by a female. Almost like a Sing HDH but for 72.

    I think something like that, that tapped into the feminist movement and ideals, would have been wonderful for the girls. and not that they had to sing about burning bras or anything. it didn't have to be heavy handed progressive content. just an "all girl" effort.

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    The Temptations managed to hang on quite a bit better than the Supremes and the Temptations still exist today.

    All of that could have been done with the Supremes who had a much larger audience to start than the Temptations.

    But literally everything that could have been mishandled was. There was too much tinkering with the sound. Too much fighting and bad management and that would have driven interest from the record company into the ground.

    There were trade ads for IGIMTM but I don't know how anyone ever thought that would be a hit - it might had got on the easy listening chart but it is remarkable that it made the Top 100. It's a nice song but not a big hit. But it had a better chance than Touch.

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    IMO the tempts were able to succeed because they really evolved their image and sound. their work with Norman really helped to elevate them and they reached that younger, hip audience. But that came with a downside - according to Otis they did NOT do well with their Vegas debut at [[i think) the Flamingo. Paul was drunk and their heavier songs and content didn't resonate with the audience.

    The temps ran their course too. by 73 or 74, their star has faded. The group was able to continue to tour and record though because their founders [[Otis and Melvin) kept their own focus on maintaining the group. they were happy to do new things and all but continued to also just sing their hits and keep their audience happy. and those women would keep coming to their shows

    I wish Mary would have focused [[during the Scherrie years) more on the longevity of the group rather than attempting to launch a solo pop career from the framework of The Supremes, a la Diana Ross. I think MSC could have continued on for years - sort of like the Pointer Sisters. the Pointers appeared on sitcoms like Gimme A Break, sang the Number song on Sesame Street [[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 10... 11, 12) and more. And they could have recorded some new things, hit the oldies circuit.

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    Here is the ad finally. It’s very well done thought was put into it. Name:  F3D9DF2C-99AC-40B0-A06D-38BAA41FD839.jpg
Views: 235
Size:  19.3 KB

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    my favorite post Ross Supremes song [[alongside Up The Ladder)

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    Here’s the Billboard review

    Name:  64165F2F-AAFF-4B26-A090-3FE05C1D0FB0.jpg
Views: 225
Size:  18.5 KB

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    IMO the tempts were able to succeed because they really evolved their image and sound. their work with Norman really helped to elevate them and they reached that younger, hip audience.

    I wish Mary would have focused [[during the Scherrie years) more on the longevity of the group rather than attempting to launch a solo pop career from the framework of The Supremes, a la Diana Ross.
    In fairness the group did evolve their sound. MS&S still sounds contemporary Forty five years later. Like the Tempts, they were always walking a thin line in trying to keep their younger and older fans happy. It’s criminal such a superb, high quality album was mostly ignored. It still annoys me even today lol.
    I think Mary just needed to stretch her wings. I don’t think she was under any illusion she could be another Diana, but may have had enough of trying to hold the group together and was looking for more stability.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    Here is the ad finally. It’s very well done thought was put into it. Name:  F3D9DF2C-99AC-40B0-A06D-38BAA41FD839.jpg
Views: 235
Size:  19.3 KB
    Yes, a great find and a beautiful ad. Explains the decision into releasing the song as a single. Good to remember as well that 'Pippin' was a big hit and a good tie-in. I think perhaps a slightly quicker tempo may have helped.

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    The 'difference' with the Temptations is/was that there was not one individual member of the group who stood out the way Diana did with the Supremes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post

    The temps ran their course too. by 73 or 74, their star has faded. The group was able to continue to tour and record though because their founders [[Otis and Melvin) kept their own focus on maintaining the group. they were happy to do new things and all but continued to also just sing their hits and keep their audience happy. and those women would keep coming to their shows
    The Tempts continued to hit the r&b top 10 with singles until the early 90s [[not consistently). They always found a way to change with the times and yet somehow remain themselves, i.e. staying on brand. The Supremes' run ended a helluva lot quicker, and the fact that they didn't stay on brand has to play some part in that.

    But again, nothing the Supremes were releasing after a certain point had a sound that could compete with what other hit makers were releasing at the same time. The Supremes were competitive in the 60s, less so in the 70s and their chart placements prove it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    Here is the ad finally. It’s very well done thought was put into it. Name:  F3D9DF2C-99AC-40B0-A06D-38BAA41FD839.jpg
Views: 235
Size:  19.3 KB
    see i hate this ad lol. but i work in marketing here in 2021 and what are the appropriate esthetics today might not have been in 72.

    that Mothra image is a nightmare. like something out of a fever dream. and here's an idea - like write 5,000 words, up it in a pale font to make it difficult to read, wrap it all around a small photo and weird image to further erode legibility and let's take the actual product we're trying to promote [[the supremes) and relegate them to a tiny b&w image that's take on stage from a distance

    brilliant lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    In fairness the group did evolve their sound. MS&S still sounds contemporary Forty five years later. Like the Tempts, they were always walking a thin line in trying to keep their younger and older fans happy. It’s criminal such a superb, high quality album was mostly ignored. It still annoys me even today lol.
    I think Mary just needed to stretch her wings. I don’t think she was under any illusion she could be another Diana, but may have had enough of trying to hold the group together and was looking for more stability.
    yes and no,IMO. you are right that there were definite steps in the right directions. and i'll add some big steps. like in 70 - the introduction of Jean and the new sounds of Ladder and SL. but then they seemed to not continue to push forward in 71 and 72.

    with MSC, that new pop sound on Sup 75 [[mostly the tracks on Side 2) was excellent. but the group reverted back into their big old ballgown looks. they weren't fashion forward any longer. but then when the Hollands took over production and Susaye joined in, on record they were WOW!! and some of the new gowns for Susaye were much more appropriate for disco than the chiffon contraptions of the MSC lineup. but it was sort of too little, too late IMO. there was excellent potential but things ran out

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I think Mary just needed to stretch her wings. I don’t think she was under any illusion she could be another Diana, but may have had enough of trying to hold the group together and was looking for more stability.
    I don't believe for one moment that Mary thought she could reach the heights of Diana's career. Hell, sometimes on paper it's hard to fathom that Diana reached the heights that she did, considering how many flops and missed opportunities and bungled decisions there were. Not every solo singer has to be a mega star. Not every solo singer wants to be a mega star. But most adults want to be more than they were when they were 16, and the truth is that by 1977 Mary Wilson was pretty much in the same position she was when she was a Primette, albeit more financially well off and obviously more famous. I just find it hard to have it asked of her to stay in that place and don't venture out and find herself.

    Plus, as you point out Ollie, it had to be stressful trying to keep the group together. At least in the Tempts, Otis had Melvin. In the Supremes Mary eventually only had herself trying to hold things together. That had to take a toll on her emotional health, not to mention what she was enduring away from the group at the hands of Pedro.

    Diana developed star power, but her career is full of "luck". How might her fortunes have gone if no "Mountain" or "Lady Sings"? Could her career have held up- er, would Gordy have kept betting the house on her- if she had to wait to 1973 to get a hit with "Touch Me In the Morning"? Luck. When Mary went solo she was still young enough to find her place, but "luck" was never her friend. That and the fact that it took her a gazillion years to find who she is as an artist. Of course by that point she was officially in the oldies genre and frankly could sing whatever the hell she wanted to with the longevity she had in the game.

    Mary's fortunes may have been a bit better had she, at some point, reformed the group for touring purposes. It may have even been an interesting idea to reform the group for recording purposes some time in the 80s when maybe the idea of her as a soloist was proving harder to achieve as time had gone on. Many of us agree that Diana needed to leave the group and prove herself on her own. I have to extend that same sentiment to Mary, or any other adult in a singing group they've been in since they were a kid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    see i hate this ad lol. but i work in marketing here in 2021 and what are the appropriate esthetics today might not have been in 72.

    that Mothra image is a nightmare. like something out of a fever dream. and here's an idea - like write 5,000 words, up it in a pale font to make it difficult to read, wrap it all around a small photo and weird image to further erode legibility and let's take the actual product we're trying to promote [[the supremes) and relegate them to a tiny b&w image that's take on stage from a distance

    brilliant lol
    I知 not certain that I liked the ad when I saw it initially because it seemed off-putting- I can稚 really think of another way to say it. However, I like it or not, time and effort was put into it unlike the billboard ads for if I were your woman or up the ladder to the roof or psychedelic shack. And I agree with you I do not at all Like the Mothra icon, and thank you for the good laugh. Again, however, there is some effort being put into it.

    I love reading billboard reviews because so often they seem to be predicating their recommendation based on the previous releases success. Anyway, it痴 just goes to show you that an exquisite recording doesn稚 necessarily make an exquisite single.

    I would love to know what the thinking was behind not having a follow up album. The Floy joy album came out in 72 and was certainly successful enough, and while Jimmy Webb was a big disappointment, was it time to throw in the towel? I don稚 think so. And even if they were waiting because of the wondrous bad weather to hit, what if it had? They had nothing to follow it up, and no album that I知 aware of to sell off it. A decision had to have been made to not record the girls, I assume, but who where when why and how? By the time bad weather was released, diana ross was an international superstar because of lady sings the blues so the competition theory, specious as it ever was, no longer applies at all. With the failure of Jimmy Webb, I am surprised they didn稚 quickly going to Nother project, I know that they didn稚 have a lot of material at the time, but there was No shortage of songs being pinched in Los Angeles and New York at the time. Gamble and Huff would致e been perfect, maybe bring in HDH sooner.I dunno, but is it just me or does it seem strange that there was nothing going on for them recording wise. The only thing I can think of is that their contract must致e expired at some point in late 72 because that would have have been three years, and while Jean was still under contract, the group didn稚 seem to be.

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    i've wondered too if there are more recordings that we're not aware of.

    according to the info i currently have, the MJL lineup did not do much recording. here's the info i have for 72 and 73

    Jan and Feb - sessions for the Floy Joy lp

    the JW recording dates run from March - June. of course that includes recording the backing tracks, ad ins, over dubs, vocals, etc. we don't have any more detailed info than that.

    I Guess I'll Miss the man - the broadway show premiered in Oct 72 and the Sup single was released in September. so the recording couldn't have been too much earlier. guessing but maybe the girls recorded it in Aug?

    that's it for 72

    For 73 we only have [[that we know of) the Stevie sessions.

    supposedly Remote Control was one from the MJL era? not sure when.

    But this is a shocking lack of studio time. I get it that the 73 dates with Stevie would be on hold, waiting to see how the BW single did. but they basically seem to have stopped doing any recording by summer 72.

    makes you wonder if the Cindy departure sort of spooked motown? concern with another personnel change? so instead of recording new material they release YWSSL. but it and Auto Sun didn't do much on the charts so they didn't record more? that seems rather counterintuitive.

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    It’s a mystery to me, and I was discussing it with friends last weekend. I am now seriously wondering if Supremes Inc. was re-formed in the fall 1969 For accounting purposes for the new group, had the contract expired throwing a wrench into the works. And Mary states in her book that it was a long time before The new contract was signed after a lengthy period of negotiations. Maybe that period started earlier than we thought?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    I’m not certain that I liked the ad when I saw it initially because it seemed off-putting- I can’t really think of another way to say it. However, I like it or not, time and effort was put into it unlike the billboard ads for if I were your woman or up the ladder to the roof or psychedelic shack. And I agree with you I do not at all Like the Mothra icon, and thank you for the good laugh. Again, however, there is some effort being put into it.

    I love reading billboard reviews because so often they seem to be predicating their recommendation based on the previous releases success. Anyway, it’s just goes to show you that an exquisite recording doesn’t necessarily make an exquisite single.

    I would love to know what the thinking was behind not having a follow up album. The Floy joy album came out in 72 and was certainly successful enough, and while Jimmy Webb was a big disappointment, was it time to throw in the towel? I don’t think so. And even if they were waiting because of the wondrous bad weather to hit, what if it had? They had nothing to follow it up, and no album that I’m aware of to sell off it. A decision had to have been made to not record the girls, I assume, but who where when why and how? By the time bad weather was released, diana ross was an international superstar because of lady sings the blues so the competition theory, specious as it ever was, no longer applies at all. With the failure of Jimmy Webb, I am surprised they didn’t quickly going to Nother project, I know that they didn’t have a lot of material at the time, but there was No shortage of songs being pinched in Los Angeles and New York at the time. Gamble and Huff would’ve been perfect, maybe bring in HDH sooner….I dunno, but is it just me or does it seem strange that there was nothing going on for them recording wise. The only thing I can think of is that their contract must’ve expired at some point in late 72 because that would have have been three years, and while Jean was still under contract, the group didn’t seem to be.
    another interesting promotional issue with I Guess is the tv appearances. Now i realize that they would often tape shows a couple weeks in advance. but other than the big TV specials, taping dates aren't THAT far off from the broadcast date. especially with something like the Mike Douglas show or Soul Train.

    YSWWL was released in July 72
    IGIMTM was released in Sept 72

    on 9/22 they were on Sonny & cher doing YWSSL
    then on 10/5 on Flip Wilson also doing YWSSL

    the Mike Douglas show with I Guess wasn't until March 73. And soul train was May

    I agree that the Mothra ad in Billboard would still have sufficed with promoting the single. but this jacked up tv promotion clearly didn't help. MAYBE they weren't ready to do I Guess on Sonny and Cher. but they clearly could have done it for Flip.

    baffling that they didn't promote their most current material

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Great vocal performance by Jean, as well as Mary and Lynda. This is actually one of my favorite Jean era songs. But it was probably a bad idea to go in that direction unless "I Guess" was the theme song to a movie. That's the only scenario where I see the public gravitating to it. Jim kind of touches on a truth regarding the Supremes: they really weren't known for ballads. Album cuts? Sure. But as singles, most of the Supremes singles were mid to up tempo songs. Of the hits, I think only "Love Is Here" and "I'm Gonna Make You Love Me" and "Someday" are ballads, or ballad adjacent. They really never did anything as slow as "Touch" or "Guess", and it's possible that the public wasn't wild about the change in pace from them. I suspect a mid to up tempo cut in place of "Touch" and "Guess" proves a more successful single.
    I'd add "Symphony" as a ballad?

    To me, it's hard to describe ANY Supremes track as a ballad. I guess I just think of think of them as being up tempo or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    another interesting promotional issue with I Guess is the tv appearances. Now i realize that they would often tape shows a couple weeks in advance. but other than the big TV specials, taping dates aren't THAT far off from the broadcast date. especially with something like the Mike Douglas show or Soul Train.

    YSWWL was released in July 72
    IGIMTM was released in Sept 72

    on 9/22 they were on Sonny & cher doing YWSSL
    then on 10/5 on Flip Wilson also doing YWSSL

    the Mike Douglas show with I Guess wasn't until March 73. And soul train was May

    I agree that the Mothra ad in Billboard would still have sufficed with promoting the single. but this jacked up tv promotion clearly didn't help. MAYBE they weren't ready to do I Guess on Sonny and Cher. but they clearly could have done it for Flip.

    baffling that they didn't promote their most current material
    Where does MODEL OF THE YEAR fit into this? Wasn't there a big argument about what song they were going to perform? And since they has no new single, they did "Touch"?

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    August 24, 1973 and I guess the also did Bad Weather
    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    Where does MODEL OF THE YEAR fit into this? Wasn't there a big argument about what song they were going to perform? And since they has no new single, they did "Touch"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    Here’s the Billboard review

    Name:  64165F2F-AAFF-4B26-A090-3FE05C1D0FB0.jpg
Views: 225
Size:  18.5 KB
    Given that the other two songs under review became soul classics, no wonder IGIMTM didn't soar the charts or make such an impact.

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    we also need to look at the full timeline

    IGIMTM was released Sept 72

    Lady Sings the Blues was released 10/12. both movie and soundtrack

    Papa was rolling stone - sept 72

    Superstition - Oct 72 and Talking Book was also released in Oct

    Ben [[the lp) was released in Aug

    summer 72 - final period of motown moving to LA

    that's a LOT of things going on. a lot of things to pull motown's attention away from really focusing on the Sups. I'm not saying they didn't have promotion for I Guess. but they had invested SO MUCH in Lady.

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    The best thing about the unearthing of this lovely and well-thought-out ad is that [for the realistic) it destroys myths of corporate diffidence, sabotage, alien invasion ... you name it ... and shows that Motown was trying to rebrand a failing act. Had IGIMTM been a hit, the naysayers would be screaming about what a BRILLIANT move Motown had made. So be it. Let's get realistic and get back to 'greys' and Ted Cruz's father on the grassy knoll
    Last edited by PeaceNHarmony; 06-29-2021 at 08:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    The best thing about the unearthing of this lovely and well-thought-out ad is that [for the realistic) it destroys myths of corporate diffidence, sabotage, alien invasion ... you name it ... and shows that Motown was trying to rebrand a failing act. Had IGIMTM been a hit, the naysayers would be screaming about what a BRILLIANT move Motown had made. So be it. Let's get realistic and get back to 'greys' and Ted Cruz's father on the grassy knoll
    why didn稚 Ted Cruz壮 father have a vasectomy before it was too late?????

    you articulated much better than I exactly the reason I posted this ad. This has a odd place in my heart because it was at this point that it seemed like it was over for the group. First, the Floyd joy album cover with another personnel change, and then this awful awful awful awful awful awful awful cover full of music that would never ever ever get out of playlist for any radio station that I could think of. And then they put the single out, oh I thought, 殿re they kidding? 的 liked the song but I couldn稚 imagine it on the radio. Every once in a while I revisit this song because it reminds me so much of that summer which contained a lot of personal milestones for me. Just now I am earth the 45 to hear the mix which I had not heard in 49 years. The vocal is more upfront, the instrumental is slightly more upfront, it痴 still a wretchedly constructed pop single. Why not just play first time ever and be done with it?

    I don稚 think that the other releases would致e had much of an impact on this because Motown had a big enough staff and was used to plugging that many singles at a time. Lady sings the blues was a month before the single trapped, sometimes they just throw things at the wall and sees what sticks. This one didn稚 stick, or as the song states, 鍍his one, wasn稚 one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I actually liked IGIMTM. I never thought it to be hit single material, but it's a lovely song beautifully performed by Jean. I can relate to the Roberta Flack comnection. Maybe, just maybe they thought they could tap into that market.
    Sadly the rest of the album was dire, and it deservedly sank without trace.
    Bluebrock, I agree with nearly everything you said. "I Guess I'll Miss The Man" is indeed lovely. The musical arrangement and production on that record were top-notch.
    Jean's heartfelt performance was ever-so touching, and I absolutely adore Mary's and Lynda's gorgeous back-up harmonies. Coupled with those heart-wrenching string passages, I love every note of that record from beginning to end. Not only is it the prettiest song the '70s Supremes ever recorded, it's among my all-time favorite Motown releases. In my book, it should have been at least a top-10 hit for the girls. They sang their hearts out and tugged at my heart-strings in the process. As you said, the rest of the album rightfully sank without a trace. It had its moments, but they were few and far between. The only track I truly loved was the one NOT produced by Jimmy Webb!

    What pissed me off about the failure of IGIMTM was the fact that it didn't get any airplay on our local AM radio station. I called and spoke with one of their DJ's to find out why they weren't playing IGIMTM. His flip answer was, "I guess Geneva isn't ready for "The Motown Sound". Before I could utter the words, "You idiot! This is 1972!!! WGVA's been playing Motown heavily for the past decade!", he hung up on me. So much for The Supremes' IGIMTM becoming a hit.
    Last edited by Philles/Motown Gary; 06-30-2021 at 03:30 AM.

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    Perhaps the lyrics were just a little to flowery for mass public consumption. 鉄ome men are heroes, some men outshine the sun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    why didn’t Ted Cruz‘s father have a vasectomy before it was too late?????

    you articulated much better than I exactly the reason I posted this ad. This has a odd place in my heart because it was at this point that it seemed like it was over for the group. First, the Floyd joy album cover with another personnel change, and then this awful awful awful awful awful awful awful cover full of music that would never ever ever get out of playlist for any radio station that I could think of. And then they put the single out, oh I thought, “are they kidding? “I liked the song but I couldn’t imagine it on the radio. Every once in a while I revisit this song because it reminds me so much of that summer which contained a lot of personal milestones for me. Just now I am earth the 45 to hear the mix which I had not heard in 49 years. The vocal is more upfront, the instrumental is slightly more upfront, it’s still a wretchedly constructed pop single. Why not just play first time ever and be done with it?

    I don’t think that the other releases would’ve had much of an impact on this because Motown had a big enough staff and was used to plugging that many singles at a time. Lady sings the blues was a month before the single trapped, sometimes they just throw things at the wall and sees what sticks. This one didn’t stick, or as the song states, “this one, wasn’t one. “
    ever marketing department has a finite amount of resources. and the goal of those resources is to generate a return on investment. if they had a budget of $5M for fall 1972 [[totally making that number up) and they had Lady, Talking Book. these were two huge projects that had absorbed tons of money. They had only recently resigned Stevie to his first major new contract. Music Of My Mind was the album released and was only a moderate success, only going to 21 on the pop chart and the 2 singles not being giant pop hits. so they needed to have a hit and Talking Book absolutely was it.

    You have the Temps coming off of several big hits in 70 and 71 and albums that sold far better than the Sups'.

    Then MJ's second solo album and the huge single Ben.

    so if you had $5M in marketing budget and needed to bring a return, where would you put the money?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Perhaps the lyrics were just a little to flowery for mass public consumption. “Some men are heroes, some men outshine the sun”.
    i think the lyric is really more depressing. Jean is singing about a man who really doesn't sound like much of a winner. and yet she's resolved to stay with him. She sings it beautifully but the story of the song is perhaps just too sad to be something people want to sing along with again and again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i think the lyric is really more depressing. Jean is singing about a man who really doesn't sound like much of a winner. and yet she's resolved to stay with him. She sings it beautifully but the story of the song is perhaps just too sad to be something people want to sing along with again and again.
    I don’t think it’s depressing, but as you say possibly not one folks are readily going to sing along with...........I do remember doing just that sequestered in my bedroom as a kid. Minus hairbrush in case you were wondering.

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    It's interesting that the lyric for IGIMTM in the broadway production had some funny aspects to it. For the pop version, they changed them into a more melancholy lyric. I think the arrangement The Supremes performed on TV was much better than the one they recorded. There were more soaring harmonies behind Jean in various places and the song seemed to soar a bit more. I wish the additional harmonies were on the recorded version. That might have made a difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I don’t think it’s depressing, but as you say possibly not one folks are readily going to sing along with...........I do remember doing just that sequestered in my bedroom as a kid. Minus hairbrush in case you were wondering.
    lol well didn't we all?!?! did you put the pillowcase on your hear or a t shirt with the neckhole around your head to simulate long hair? lol

    maybe depressing is too strong of a word. Sleepin' by Diana Ross was depressing, even if beautifully sung. Maybe IGIMTM is just too sad of a story and too non-feminist of a song. Just a year prior Jean had told that jive fool Nathan Jones to go jump in a lake! and now she's pining after a guy with gloomy solitudes, doesn't smile enough, who's blunt and thoughtless. But he was the best to come along in a long while - so she's settling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thommg View Post
    It's interesting that the lyric for IGIMTM in the broadway production had some funny aspects to it. For the pop version, they changed them into a more melancholy lyric. I think the arrangement The Supremes performed on TV was much better than the one they recorded. There were more soaring harmonies behind Jean in various places and the song seemed to soar a bit more. I wish the additional harmonies were on the recorded version. That might have made a difference.
    on the bootleg from the Apollo show in Dec 72 they did it live and it's lovely too. it's longer as they repeat the middle chorus and the verse of oooo's.

    i do like both the live and recorded versions. the record is hauntingly and beautifully restrained. live - jean of course amps things up. both work very well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    lol well didn't we all?!?! did you put the pillowcase on your hear or a t shirt with the neckhole around your head to simulate long hair? lol.
    Now you’ve got me worried.
    I see your point about the exact nature of the lyrics. Call me old fashioned, but I doubt it featured on many feminist one to buy lists.
    When you think about it, this girl must have endured some pretty abusive relationships to still hanker after such a guy. Moods perhaps, gloomy solitudes never.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Perhaps the lyrics were just a little to flowery for mass public consumption. 鉄ome men are heroes, some men outshine the sun.
    I hear you, Ollie. You may be right. But the next two lines -- "Some men are simple, good men -- this man wasn't one" -- reels it back into reality -- at least for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    lol well didn't we all?!?! did you put the pillowcase on your hear or a t shirt with the neckhole around your head to simulate long hair? lol

    maybe depressing is too strong of a word. Sleepin' by Diana Ross was depressing, even if beautifully sung. Maybe IGIMTM is just too sad of a story and too non-feminist of a song. Just a year prior Jean had told that jive fool Nathan Jones to go jump in a lake! and now she's pining after a guy with gloomy solitudes, doesn't smile enough, who's blunt and thoughtless. But he was the best to come along in a long while - so she's settling.
    And UGLY too?!? "His face was far from fine....."

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    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    And UGLY too?!? "His face was far from fine....."
    yeah! come on Jean! surely you can do better lol

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