Lynda on lead: STONED LOVE

[marybrewster]

I'm sure when Cindy was with the Bluebelles, she was given a lot more liberties as far as background vocals and input in the overall group. While Patti was the lead, I feel like each member was treated equally.

When Cindy joined the Supremes, sure, the venues were bigger, the money was bigger, the hair was bigger [[lol), but she clearly was just there as a stepping stone for Diana's exit. Cindy was only on one "hit" with the group; the duet with the Temptations.

Of course, when Diana left and Jean joined, by that time Cindy had become an important and beloved member, and I'm sure her input was taken more into consideration.

[Spreadinglove21]

Motown hit the jackpot with Cindy. They weren't looking for a vocal prowess or someone with an opinion; they were looking for someone sweet, someone that looked like Flo, someone that would say "Yes, Diana". She became one of the most beloved members of the group.

Sorry but I don't think Cindy Birdsong was put into the group because she was a minimally talented doormat.

She came into the act because she was a complete pro. She could learn the routines quickly, sing well as she was a good group singer, and most importantly was reliable. Throw in the fact that she was beautiful and could carry off the glam image of the Supremes and that's why she was accepted.

Flo was wonderful when she was on her game, but she deserved to be fired from the group. She missed shows, was unreliable, had trouble learning some of the routines and behind the scenes was sometimes a pain in the ass for Berry Gordy, Diana, Mary and those working with the group.

While I give DMF a huge edge on their recorded output, in terms of live performances I've seen on youtube, DMC is the superior line up.

[RanRan79]

Sorry but I don't think Cindy Birdsong was put into the group because she was a minimally talented doormat.

She came into the act because she was a complete pro. She could learn the routines quickly, sing well as she was a good group singer, and most importantly was reliable. Throw in the fact that she was beautiful and could carry off the glam image of the Supremes and that's why she was accepted.

Flo was wonderful when she was on her game, but she deserved to be fired from the group. She missed shows, was unreliable, had trouble learning some of the routines and behind the scenes was sometimes a pain in the ass for Berry Gordy, Diana, Mary and those working with the group.

While I give DMF a huge edge on their recorded output, in terms of live performances I've seen on youtube, DMC is the superior line up.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Cindy was minimally talented. She had her strengths and weaknesses like every other singer on the planet. But Mary is spot on with her assessment of Cindy's purpose in the group. Yes, Cindy got the job because she could sing, apparently she was indeed a quick study, and just as important as those attributes, Cindy was not going to rock the boat. The dynamic between Diana and Mary and Cindy, or any other woman who stepped into Flo's shoes, was always going to be entirely different than that of Diana and Flo and Mary. Why would Gordy have ever hired a woman who would have bristled at Diana's antics, or her position, or asserting her position? Mary could do it and get away with it because -a- she was family, and -b- she didn't go overboard the way Flo sometimes did. But bringing another woman in who didn't understand the direction the group was going -Diana's eventual departure- would've been nuts. Thus Cindy, who understood and played her position excellently.

As for Flo, I wouldn't say she deserved to be fired, although I understand very well why she was fired and her hand in it. What she actually deserved was to be treated with respect. The group became a hostile working environment. And truth be told, had Gordy not also been a pain in the ass [[and I think we've all read the countless Diana pain in the ass stories) the original trio probably would've continued on until Diana's departure. The question that's always on the table is did Flo light the fuse of the problems in the group, or did she respond to the problem? We can always be faulted for the way we react to things, but we also have to be faulted when we create things to be reacted to. Flo didn't wake up one day and decide to be a problem.

Stage wise, FDM and DMC were in many ways two very different acts. With Flo the act held a certain youthfulness. Even in sequined gowns, there was still an element of "sock hop" Supremes present. With DRATS, the group had moved up, grown up considerably. The routines became more complicated, more showbizzy. I think to compare the two lineups on stage is sort of apples to oranges, but is certainly a matter of taste. When I watch performances of the original trio my eyes have a hard time concentrating on any one girl because they all were bringing something unique to the scene. With DRATS, for me it's all about Diana. She is the focal point. I'd be lying if I said I concentrate much on Mary and Cindy at this point. Diana was becoming a force.

[marybrewster]

Thanks Ran; that was exactly my point.

And to your point, I agree: DMF and DMC were two completely different groups. Not just with the switch of Flo to Cindy. DMF were still very Detroit; the hometown girls that made it big. DMC were very slick; Las Vegas. While both groups had sequins, DMF were tasteful, like your daughter going to the prom, or the Mother of the Bride. DMC were over the top, like NYC Gay Pride, or RuPaul's Drag Race.

[RanRan79]

Thanks Ran; that was exactly my point.

And to your point, I agree: DMF and DMC were two completely different groups. Not just with the switch of Flo to Cindy. DMF were still very Detroit; the hometown girls that made it big. DMC were very slick; Las Vegas. While both groups had sequins, DMF were tasteful, like your daughter going to the prom, or the Mother of the Bride. DMC were over the top, like NYC Gay Pride, or RuPaul's Drag Race.

Your analogies of the two groups were better than mine and gave me a good chuckle, especially the last one. Spot on analysis.

And just to clarify my point about Mary and Cindy in the group, I wasn't suggesting that they added nothing. They were a major part of the group's growth. Their slickness together with the routines were great. But at this point the group really was, more often than not, Diana Ross...and the Supremes. Some of those specialty performances, like the Fats Waller Medley, were great examples of DRATS looking like a total group, but that was more the exception than the rule, as far as I can tell. And Diana was growing so much as a performer that it was hard to focus on much of anything else going on. She proved herself and her worth during those DRATS years, something Mary and Cindy weren't always allowed to do.

[rod_rick]

I don't think that happened all the time with the Cindy Mary blend. On "I'll Set You Free and Sunny Boy, Cindy is right in there with Mary and in some parts dominating the harmony. As for Flo she still had power but the brightness of her vocals had changed. When Cindy stayed on her mic or her mic had adequate volume you got a fuller sound from her. When I listen to Cindy's debut performance at the Hollywood Bowl her voice sounded stronger and clearer than the Talk of the Town. I just read last week that someone asked Mary about Cindy's voice and Mary replied that Cindy had a Good Strong Clear Voice.

I also think that not using Mary & Cindy in the background was two folds. One being with the change from Flo to Cindy the public really didn't know what the new girl would sound like and second launching Diana as a solo artist within the group. just my observation