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    Reach Out, I'll Be There 🖤🖤🎵🖤🖤

    The climatic ending On this gem Is everything no this is how you sing a song unbelievable

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    i like it and the album version is excellent. IMO they single edit of this wasn't as powerful as the single edit of Mountain

    if Mountain hadn't existed, this could very well have been THE diana ross song. but because it was second, it just isn't as interesting IMO. Mountain totally reimagined a song in a way previous unconceived. Reach also totally reimagined the song but in essentially they same way as Mountain, so the novelty was lost.

    i would definitely NOT have issued it as a single. I think it sapped the interest in the Surrender LP. the title track should have been the second [[or even the lead) single from the album

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    I think this is a vastly underrated song in DR's catalogue. Did she ever perform it on tv during its release? I believe she was expecting her first child when the song was release so that may have been the reason why she/Motown didn't push the promotion more and the song didn't become a bigger hit. Such a shame.

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    Love it Love it Love it. But ... I'm not sure of hit status, and tend to agree with SupFan regarding a single of 'Surrender'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i like it and the album version is excellent. IMO they single edit of this wasn't as powerful as the single edit of Mountain

    if Mountain hadn't existed, this could very well have been THE diana ross song. but because it was second, it just isn't as interesting IMO. Mountain totally reimagined a song in a way previous unconceived. Reach also totally reimagined the song but in essentially they same way as Mountain, so the novelty was lost.

    i would definitely NOT have issued it as a single. I think it sapped the interest in the Surrender LP. the title track should have been the second [[or even the lead) single from the album
    Diana's ROIBT is a soulful, dramatic tour de force. The original is considered one of the all time great songs, with one of the all time great vocals by the incomparable Levi Stubbs. That Diana was able to take a Levi associated song and turn out the performance that she did, was a feat I don't think many people would've thought possible. It's structured in a way that it doesn't make sense to even begin to compare the two singers, as it might on some of the previous Diana-Levi "same songs" [[such as "Shake Me", "Turn To Stone" and even "Same Old Song", among others). IMO, it's a standout on the Surrender album.

    Having said that, it lacks the charm of "Mountain". "Mountain" was so completely different from anything out at the time, and certainly not what the public thought they'd get from Diana. The album version [[which I prefer to the single edit), while lengthy, it doesn't suffer from the slow moments, mostly thanks to Diana's dramatic and captivating speaking style. The jumps from the spoken verses to the bombastic vocal chorus leaves the listener on the edge of their seat. ROIBT, while equally dramatic, isn't exactly the same drama. ROIBT kind of plods along for a lengthy period of time and Diana's beautiful voice isn't enough to make a lot of people forget that. Once the song revs up and gets going, it kills. But it takes too long to get there, where as "Mountain" comes out the gate making people go "Whoa!".

    So I think ROIBT wouldn't have been much more successful than it was had it been released before "Mountain". Maybe a little better, but not much. "Mountain" was a force.

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    Just revisited Diana’s rendition of “Reach Out” and it is very, very good. Great production values. But I don’t recognize who is doing the strong backing vocals. Can someone identify them? Thank you!
    Last edited by mowest; 06-02-2021 at 01:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mowest View Post
    Just revisited Diana’s rendition of “Reach Out” and it is very, very good. Great production values. But I don’t recognize who is doing the strong backing vocals. Can someone identify them? Thank you!
    Probably Ashford and Simpson with Joshie Armstead, and maybe some others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Probably Ashford and Simpson with Joshie Armstead, and maybe some others.
    Thanks reese!

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    I recall Luther Vandross telling me ROIBT was his all time favourite Diana/Supremes tune. It is well documented just how much he idolised her. I also adore her rendition of ROIBT, but i did not think it quite as memorable as her version of ANMHE. Luther had some great [[and some not so great) ideas for cover versions to be considered for his much wished for album production on Diana. He had a great knack of reinventing classic songs and restructuring them to suit himself or the artist he was producing.
    Any ideas as to what songs he may have had in mind for her? Some were very obvious. Others less so.

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    Was the Luther connection the reason why Reach out I'll be there was the last song on the Return to Love concert that he attended,
    I would loved the Luther project on Miss Ross, I think she may of covered his track Any Love.

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    As a kid, I bought the 45 of REACH OUT I'LL BE THERE in a "3 for $.50" bag at Woolworth's. To be honest, I wasn't impressed. I liked the flip "CLOSE TO YOU" from the DIANA! special much better and actually thought it was the A-side.

    Many years later, my cousin gave me the SURRENDER album and I heard the full-length version. I appreciated the recording a bit more but I didn't really grow to love the song until I heard her sing it on a tape from the RETURN TO LOVE tour. The lower key plus the maturity of Diana's voice brought out something I didn't hear previously. A couple of years later, I had the opportunity to hear Diana sing it in concert and it was one of the best moments of the night.
    Last edited by reese; 06-03-2021 at 08:43 AM.

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    I never understood Ashford & Simpson's obsession with reworking their songs in a completely diifferent style. Why didn't they just get it right first time or write a completely new song?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    I never understood Ashford & Simpson's obsession with reworking their songs in a completely diifferent style. Why didn't they just get it right first time or write a completely new song?
    I doubt they were obsessed and pleased they never stopped being creative. “Ain’t No Mountain” and “Reach Out, I’ll Be There” remain fan favourites over 50 years later.

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    The 4 Tops' "Reach Out I'll Be There" was and still remains my favourite record ever made.
    As I have no wish to upset anybody, I'll just say that I wish Diana Ross had never recorded it and leave it at that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I doubt they were obsessed and pleased they never stopped being creative. “Ain’t No Mountain” and “Reach Out, I’ll Be There” remain fan favourites over 50 years later.
    "Your Love Can Save Me" became "This Poor Heart of Mine", there are a different number of lines in the verses of "You Ain't Livin' Until Your Lovin'" depending on whose version you're listening to, and on Valerie Simpson's own Motown solo album, she's indulged herself in including two versions of the song "Genius".
    Last edited by 144man; 06-03-2021 at 02:53 PM. Reason: correction to spelling

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    I Love Dianas Reach Out Ill Be There. Its the best version IMO and gives me goosebumps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    The 4 Tops' "Reach Out I'll Be There" was and still remains my favourite record ever made.
    As I have no wish to upset anybody, I'll just say that I wish Diana Ross had never recorded it and leave it at that.
    I love her version so much. I wish she could have done a film and it had played at the end

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    One of my favorite Ross recordings. I saw her sing it live once and she was fantastic.

    Is Cissy Houston in the background on the recording? I've always thought that I could hear her voice within that wonderful choir.

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    One of her very best ever recordings is it a Paul riser arrangement ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy View Post
    One of my favorite Ross recordings. I saw her sing it live once and she was fantastic.

    Is Cissy Houston in the background on the recording? I've always thought that I could hear her voice within that wonderful choir.
    The only time that I've heard DR sing it in concert was during the RTL tour in Chicago and I was floored! It was pure magic. One of the many things that I love about Diana is that the voice you hear on her records is the exact voice that you will hear in concert.

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    Great song cover! Is Paul Riser involved with this song? It is a seductive song. With more plays on the radio, it could have been a #1 Song Hit. Was it ever released as a single record?Diana Ross' voice is seamless and soars with this song. Bravo, Ms.Ross! Enjoyed this song on opening night RTL Tour June 14, 2000 in Philadelphia.Is it true this song was requested to be put in the show by Luther Vandross?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNSUN View Post
    Great song cover! Is Paul Riser involved with this song? It is a seductive song. With more plays on the radio, it could have been a #1 Song Hit. Was it ever released as a single record?Diana Ross' voice is seamless and soars with this song. Bravo, Ms.Ross! Enjoyed this song on opening night RTL Tour June 14, 2000 in Philadelphia.Is it true this song was requested to be put in the show by Luther Vandross?
    Yes it was released as a single in the u.s. reaching #29 on Billboard and #17 on the r& b chart there was no u.k. single release

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    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    Yes it was released as a single in the u.s. reaching #29 on Billboard and #17 on the r& b chart there was no u.k. single release
    It was a B side in the UK if my memory serves me correctly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNSUN View Post
    Great song cover! Is Paul Riser involved with this song? It is a seductive song. With more plays on the radio, it could have been a #1 Song Hit. Was it ever released as a single record?Diana Ross' voice is seamless and soars with this song. Bravo, Ms.Ross! Enjoyed this song on opening night RTL Tour June 14, 2000 in Philadelphia.Is it true this song was requested to be put in the show by Luther Vandross?
    I am not sure if he is directly responsible for it's inclusion, but it is certainly true that he told Ms Ross it was his all time favourite Ross related song, and he was delighted when she included it in the set.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNSUN View Post
    Great song cover! Is Paul Riser involved with this song?
    Yes, Paul Riser did the arrangement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    It was a B side in the UK if my memory serves me correctly.
    I'm pleased it was the UK B side to I'm Still Waiting as the editing is very poor.

    https://youtu.be/aOd3lxDIK6M
    Last edited by rovereab; 06-04-2021 at 09:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    I never understood Ashford & Simpson's obsession with reworking their songs in a completely diifferent style. Why didn't they just get it right first time or write a completely new song?
    They were artists, that's why. Most artists are never really completely pleased with the finished product, always thinking there was some way to make it better. Besides, I'm from the Ruth Brown school of thought when it comes to covering songs: why do it the same way as the person who did it before you? If you're going to cover a song, reinterpret it. Music would be boring if all the songs, including the covers, sounded the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    They were artists, that's why. Most artists are never really completely pleased with the finished product, always thinking there was some way to make it better. Besides, I'm from the Ruth Brown school of thought when it comes to covering songs: why do it the same way as the person who did it before you? If you're going to cover a song, reinterpret it. Music would be boring if all the songs, including the covers, sounded the same.
    Dusty Springfield was notorious for never being satisfied with her finished product.. Kate bush another..

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    They were artists, that's why. Most artists are never really completely pleased with the finished product, always thinking there was some way to make it better. Besides, I'm from the Ruth Brown school of thought when it comes to covering songs: why do it the same way as the person who did it before you? If you're going to cover a song, reinterpret it. Music would be boring if all the songs, including the covers, sounded the same.
    I'd rather not hear them until they emerged from the vaults forty years later.
    That's when I'd really appreciate them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    I'd rather not hear them until they emerged from the vaults forty years later.
    That's when I'd really appreciate them.
    What difference does that make if your personal taste is one in which all covers sound like the original? Seems you'd dislike them whether they came out an hour after recording or a full century later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    I never understood Ashford & Simpson's obsession with reworking their songs in a completely diifferent style. Why didn't they just get it right first time or write a completely new song?
    ďReach out Iíll be thereĒ was only produced by Ashford and Simpson for Diana Ross. The song was written by Holland, Dozier and Holland.
    They made it a completely different song. I love both versions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vgalindo View Post
    “Reach out I’ll be there” was only produced by Ashford and Simpson for Diana Ross. The song was written by Holland, Dozier and Holland.
    They made it a completely different song. I love both versions.
    If they wanted to make it a completely different song, then they should have written a completely different song.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    If they wanted to make it a completely different song, then they should have written a completely different song.
    They reworked the song because Berry Gordy was looking for another Ain't no mountain style anthem. This is what they came up with. I think they did a wonderful job in re-imagining a absolute classic. Luther had a similar talent in re-structuring classic songs and putting a whole new slant on them. Will Downing is another such artist. It takes a special talent to be able to do that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    What difference does that make if your personal taste is one in which all covers sound like the original? Seems you'd dislike them whether they came out an hour after recording or a full century later.
    I was thinking more of alternate versions. For instance, I liked Marvin Gaye's "Purple Snowflakes" when it emerged from the vaults. It would have made no sense releasing it at the same time as "Pretty Little Baby". No one would hve been interested in all the alternative Supremes' versions we got later if they'd been made available with the commercial release.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    They reworked the song because Berry Gordy was looking for another Ain't no mountain style anthem. This is what they came up with. I think they did a wonderful job in re-imagining a absolute classic. Luther had a similar talent in re-structuring classic songs and putting a whole new slant on them. Will Downing is another such artist. It takes a special talent to be able to do that.
    Tim Hardin, the composer of "I Were A Carpenter", didn't like Bobby Darin's version of "If I Were A Carpenter". He thought it was so close to his own version that it made it pointless. On the other hand, he didn't like the Four Tops' version either because he said it was so different from how he wrote it that it could have been a different song.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    Tim Hardin, the composer of "I Were A Carpenter", didn't like Bobby Darin's version of "If I Were A Carpenter". He thought it was so close to his own version that it made it pointless. On the other hand, he didn't like the Four Tops' version either because he said it was so different from how he wrote it that it could have been a different song.
    Sounds like that guy was pretty hard to please. I love Bobby's version more than Tim's original due to the quality of the vocals, and i absolutely adore the Four Tops version.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Sounds like that guy was pretty hard to please. I love Bobby's version more than Tim's original due to the quality of the vocals, and i absolutely adore the Four Tops version.
    Same here. It’s the Four Tops all the way for me. *** Best version ever***

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Same here. It’s the Four Tops all the way for me. *** Best version ever***
    Levi could have performed nursery rhymes and i would have lapped it up. He could do no wrong in my book.

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    For me itís Diana Ross no one has that beauty in there voice like Diana her version can make one cry

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    Quote Originally Posted by after you View Post
    For me it’s Diana Ross no one has that beauty in there voice like Diana her version can make one cry
    Yes, hearing Diana Ross's version of "Reach Out I'll Be There" definitely made me want to cry

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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    Yes, hearing Diana Ross's version of "Reach Out I'll Be There" definitely made me want to cry
    LOL.....Naughty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    Yes, hearing Diana Ross's version of "Reach Out I'll Be There" definitely made me want to cry
    You really dislike it that much do you? I did not realise there were such divisive opinions on her version.
    I know most people on here hate her version of i will survive [[myself included) but i did not realise roibt was so disliked. Different strokes i guess.

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    I consider Diana Ross to be a very good vocalist, just as I feel all members of the Supremes were very good vocalists. I bought this single back in the day, and I really liked it tremendously even though I felt it paled somewhat in comparison to Ain't No Mountain High Enough[[which I felt it was modeled after and did not hit the same quality but was still very good). I preferred her other singles released around this time much more as I felt they had better, full bodied vocals-Remember Me and Surrender were some of her best vocals. Still, Motown had a thing were if it works once, try it again. And it did work, it just wasn't quite as good or nearly as successful. The least successful during this period, I'm Still Waiting, was also very good but it failed to chart well in the US, even though it became #1 in the UK.
    Last edited by jim aka jtigre99; 06-12-2021 at 04:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    I never understood Ashford & Simpson's obsession with reworking their songs in a completely diifferent style. Why didn't they just get it right first time or write a completely new song?
    In addition to what others have already said on this thread [the creative restlessness of Ashford and Simpson & the smash success of Diana's version of "Ain't No Mountain High Enough"], look at the influence of Isaac Hayes. His classic albums from 1969 through 1971 [with the exception of the Shaft soundtrack] were dominated by ambitious cover versions of songs from other artists and they were huge selling hits. A&S must've had a feeling that taking that ambitious approach once again with Diana Ross' version of "Reach Out" would result in another big hit.
    Last edited by Motown Eddie; 06-12-2021 at 05:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    You really dislike it that much do you? I did not realise there were such divisive opinions on her version.
    I know most people on here hate her version of i will survive [[myself included) but i did not realise roibt was so disliked. Different strokes i guess.
    As I said before, The Four Tops' recording of ROIBT is my favourite record ever made, so I was never going to be keen on any other version. I can just about tolerate Gloria Gaynor's cover as it is an honest attempt at a disco update. To my mind, Ashford & Simpson's reworking does not remain true to the song, and merely succeeds in turning it into an overblown melodrama.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motown Eddie View Post
    In addition to what others have already said on this thread [the creative restlessness of Ashford and Simpson & the smash success of Diana's version of "Ain't No Mountain High Enough"], look at the influence of Isaac Hayes. His classic albums from 1969 through 1971 [with the exception of the Shaft soundtrack] were dominated by ambitious cover versions of songs from other artists and they were huge selling hits. A&S must've had a feeling that taking that ambitious approach once again with Diana Ross' version of "Reach Out" would result in another big hit.
    I had never previously made that comparison Eddie, but now that you mention it i think you may have a point.
    Some of those smouldering cover versions by Isaac Hayes really set the bar for future cover versions. I suspect Luther was heavily influenced by the recordings of Isaac Hayes when he was structuring his own memorable cover versions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    As I said before, The Four Tops' recording of ROIBT is my favourite record ever made, so I was never going to be keen on any other version. I can just about tolerate Gloria Gaynor's cover as it is an honest attempt at a disco update. To my mind, Ashford & Simpson's reworking does not remain true to the song, and merely succeeds in turning it into an overblown melodrama.
    I quite like Gloria's version too, but it paled against her wonderful revival of Never can say goodbye which breathed new life into an already great song.
    Apologies for going off topic again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I quite like Gloria's version too, but it paled against her wonderful revival of Never can say goodbye which breathed new life into an already great song.
    Apologies for going off topic again!
    That drum opening of Gloria's " reach out" was on fire..

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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    As I said before, The Four Tops' recording of ROIBT is my favourite record ever made, so I was never going to be keen on any other version. I can just about tolerate Gloria Gaynor's cover as it is an honest attempt at a disco update. To my mind, Ashford & Simpson's reworking does not remain true to the song, and merely succeeds in turning it into an overblown melodrama.
    "overblown melodrama"! LOL!

    The song is nice for me, but Iím not blown away by it. Maybe after a few more listens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomatoTom123 View Post
    "overblown melodrama"! LOL!

    The song is nice for me, but I’m not blown away by it. Maybe after a few more listens.
    The word I was searching for, but couldn't think of at the time, was "pretentious".

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