R&H Is 54 Yrs Old This Month

[RanRan79]

The Rodgers and Hart album was never a favorite of mine, despite some exceptionally fine cuts on the album. It was one of those albums that I played for specific songs, never for the entire album experience. Interestingly, when the "expanded" version was released, it was the outtakes that blew me away. IMO the better songs were mostly left off of the album and the more mediocre cuts made the final cut. In any case, the entire project is one of the best creative periods of the ladies' career and I thought I'd celebrate it by spotlighting from the original album one of the cuts whose excellence I was late in discovering. "Where Or When" presents the Supremes in fine form. One of Diana's best vocal performances, IMO.

[RanRan79]

Here's a fav from the outtakes. Just a beautiful performance from each of them. And the band is on point too.

[sup_fan]

this is probably the strongest overall album by the group during it's entire discography. while i may have selected a different 12 tracks for the final album, it is impossible to go wrong with any combination of them. My only very very very minor nit would be to increase the backing vocals a touch and emphasize the group harmonies a bit more

if any pop artist today released such a quality package, it would sweep the Grammies.

This album should have too

[nathanj06]

Where Or When is also one of my favorite standouts. Beautifully arranged. The album cover is gorgeous. It is a great collection.

[TNSUN]

Miss Ross is in very fine voice with this song.

[after you]

Miss Ross is in fine voice with every song 🖤🧡🖤

[nomis]

The unreleased cuts where too good to stay in the vaults so long.. apparently berry was going to originally make it a double album release but scrapped the idea at the last moment..both flo and Diana wanted the inclusion of " Manhattan " which I think is the best song from the sessions my other favorite is " I could write a book "

[RanRan79]

this is probably the strongest overall album by the group during it's entire discography. while i may have selected a different 12 tracks for the final album, it is impossible to go wrong with any combination of them. My only very very very minor nit would be to increase the backing vocals a touch and emphasize the group harmonies a bit more

if any pop artist today released such a quality package, it would sweep the Grammies.

This album should have too

I agree Sup. This should've been a Grammy nominated project even then.

[RanRan79]

Where Or When is also one of my favorite standouts. Beautifully arranged. The album cover is gorgeous. It is a great collection.

Nathan I hate the cover. Lol My gripe is the fact that they used a two year old photo. The group had gone through a couple of different phases of looks since becoming hitmakers. They hadn't looked like that in so long. And at this point -1967- they had done so many sophisticated photo shoots. Even if Motown wanted to use a shot of them singing live, there were so many other shots to choose from. They could've even done a shoot specifically to make it look like them onstage. I just hate it. Lol

[RanRan79]

The unreleased cuts where too good to stay in the vaults so long.. apparently berry was going to originally make it a double album release but scrapped the idea at the last moment..both flo and Diana wanted the inclusion of " Manhattan " which I think is the best song from the sessions my other favorite is " I could write a book "

I wonder why the decision to cancel the double album and only make it a single disk? Perhaps the plans were already underway for the double greatest hits, so they thought it best not to do two doubles in so short a time. Who knows.

I'm a fan of both "Manhattan" and "I Could Write A Book". Another one I really love is "Bewitched, Bothered, Bewildered", including the one where it sounds like Diana and Flo are kind of duetting.

[floyjoy678]

I've always loved this album. Was one of the first ones I owned by them and had heard "Falling In Love With Love" before I bought it and of course I instantly fell in love with that song. I still remember having a debate with my dad and sister on who was singing the second verse, they kept saying it was Flo because she had a deep speaking voice but I knew it was Mary. I was so surprised when I saw the expanded edition in 2002 in Coconut Records and I immediately bought it. Besides "Falling In Love With Love" I also love "This Can't Be Love", "My Romance" and "Blue Moon".

Ranran I also love that particular version of "Betwitched". I pretty much love all of the bonus tracks and wish more of them had been included. But I think the finished product was clearly done with the intent of the soon unraveling of "Diana Ross and the Supremes".

[reese]

I wonder why the decision to cancel the double album and only make it a single disk? Perhaps the plans were already underway for the double greatest hits, so they thought it best not to do two doubles in so short a time. Who knows.

I'm a fan of both "Manhattan" and "I Could Write A Book". Another one I really love is "Bewitched, Bothered, Bewildered", including the one where it sounds like Diana and Flo are kind of duetting.

Maybe Berry wasn't confident that a double album of standards would sell well. And even with the single album, it is debatable if it would have sold without having the tv special behind it.

That said, it did reach #20 on the pop charts but I have no idea how long it lasted on the charts. J. Randy wrote that it only sold 135,000 copies.

[RanRan79]

I've always loved this album. Was one of the first ones I owned by them and had heard "Falling In Love With Love" before I bought it and of course I instantly fell in love with that song. I still remember having a debate with my dad and sister on who was singing the second verse, they kept saying it was Flo because she had a deep speaking voice but I knew it was Mary. I was so surprised when I saw the expanded edition in 2002 in Coconut Records and I immediately bought it. Besides "Falling In Love With Love" I also love "This Can't Be Love", "My Romance" and "Blue Moon".

Ranran I also love that particular version of "Betwitched". I pretty much love all of the bonus tracks and wish more of them had been included. But I think the finished product was clearly done with the intent of the soon unraveling of "Diana Ross and the Supremes".

That's the theory, that the final product contained songs that tilted toward Diana Ross rather than the Supremes.

Confession: I thought "Falling In Love" was Flo for about two years. Lol I had the DRATS Anthology before I ever got the R&H album. Looking back, I don't know why I thought that. Up to that point the only leads I had of Flo was "Popcorn" and "Good News". Yeah, not sure why I thought it was Flo and not Mary. But at some point, probably after I had acquired more of the music and become more familiar with each lady's voice, I did finally figure it out.

[RanRan79]

Maybe Berry wasn't confident that a double album of standards would sell well. And even with the single album, it is debatable if it would have sold without having the tv special behind it.

That said, it did reach #20 on the pop charts but I have no idea how long it lasted on the charts. J. Randy wrote that it only sold 135,000 copies.

Interesting. Sup has a whole post about how many weeks each album was on the charts. You might want to refer to it after all the work he put into it.

[SatansBlues]

There are two versions of Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered but it's the Alt version where Florence's vocals are almost like a duet with Diana at certain points. I love this version and the album as a whole, although I tend to hate show tunes/Broadway songs. I think the entire group shines on these recordings. My only qualm is The Lady is a Tramp recording. The live version [[Farwell) totally outshines the recorded version. The version on the album sounds dull.

[sup_fan]

Nathan I hate the cover. Lol My gripe is the fact that they used a two year old photo. The group had gone through a couple of different phases of looks since becoming hitmakers. They hadn't looked like that in so long. And at this point -1967- they had done so many sophisticated photo shoots. Even if Motown wanted to use a shot of them singing live, there were so many other shots to choose from. They could've even done a shoot specifically to make it look like them onstage. I just hate it. Lol

while i don't hate the cover, i agree a more recent photo would have been better. And same for the back cover image. There were 2 versions of the back graphics and both use pics of the girls that were at least a year old.

[sup_fan]

Maybe Berry wasn't confident that a double album of standards would sell well. And even with the single album, it is debatable if it would have sold without having the tv special behind it.

That said, it did reach #20 on the pop charts but I have no idea how long it lasted on the charts. J. Randy wrote that it only sold 135,000 copies.

the album was on the charts for 18 weeks which is pretty good.

Liverpool - 21
Country - 8
Sam Cooke - 19 weeks
Copa - 54
More Hits - 37
Symphony - 37
Reflections - 28
TOTT - 17
Funny - 12

[jobeterob]

Randy dropped all the sales info from his updated book - basically because it was discredited or wrong.

[floyjoy678]

There are two versions of Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered but it's the Alt version where Florence's vocals are almost like a duet with Diana at certain points. I love this version and the album as a whole, although I tend to hate show tunes/Broadway songs. I think the entire group shines on these recordings. My only qualm is The Lady is a Tramp recording. The live version [[Farwell) totally outshines the recorded version. The version on the album sounds dull.

I'm not a fan of the Lady Is A Tramp recording either. I don't get why they only had Mary and Flo record those "that's why the lady..." at the end of the song and not include their vocals for the whole thing. I like the Copa version with Flo and Mary doing their comedic lines throughout the song.

[reese]

the album was on the charts for 18 weeks which is pretty good.

Liverpool - 21
Country - 8
Sam Cooke - 19 weeks
Copa - 54
More Hits - 37
Symphony - 37
Reflections - 28
TOTT - 17
Funny - 12

So it sold steadily for almost five months. Not bad at all.

[sup_fan]

and don't forget that 4 months after R&H hit stores, we got Greatest Hits. so while R&H was certainly still available, attention was most definitely diverted

[nomis]

there was some sort of problem in the early recording stages - for what ever reason they couldnt get a good vocal out of Diana for the first few sessions - until Berry personally intervened..I think its detailed in Tarroborelli's first Diana biography

[RanRan79]

I'm not a fan of the Lady Is A Tramp recording either. I don't get why they only had Mary and Flo record those "that's why the lady..." at the end of the song and not include their vocals for the whole thing. I like the Copa version with Flo and Mary doing their comedic lines throughout the song.

I agree 100 percent. The live renditions are great. The album version stinks in comparison.

[RanRan79]

until Berry personally intervened

In other words, he gave her "something she could feel" and she got up the next morning and went into that recording booth with a smile on her face.

[nomis]

I agree 100 percent. The live renditions are great. The album version stinks in comparison.

Diana must have loved the song - she sang it twice on The Tonight Show with Carson

[nomis]

In other words, he gave her "something she could feel" and she got up the next morning and went into that recording booth with a smile on her face.

lol she probably gave him something like a peace of her mind !

[reese]

there was some sort of problem in the early recording stages - for what ever reason they couldnt get a good vocal out of Diana for the first few sessions - until Berry personally intervened..I think its detailed in Tarroborelli's first Diana biography

I think Gil Askey said he was trying to get a good vocal out of Diana and it wasn't working so he called Berry to the studio. When Berry arrived, he went into the booth with her and had a talk. He kissed her on the cheek and Diana did four or five songs in a row. Perfectly.

[nomis]

Mexican LP with DMC on the cover !

[Ollie9]

Berry was said to be absolutely delighted with the album. I think even he was amazed by the consummate ease Diana glides through these songs. Flo and Mary also had never sounded better and lend much to the finished product. For me one of the groups very best.

[johnjeb]

I have loved the original Rodgers & Hart album since I bought it in 1967. I've always heard the unreleased songs that emerged in 1986 as "nice", but on par with what was released, not necessarily better. I still feel that way.

That doesn't mean that the songs on the album are better, but they are more indicative of the sound of The Supremes and of Motown in early 1967. The Supremes were considered a teenage-oriented Pop group, admittedly with a growing adult fan base, so it makes sense that the album reflects songs geared towards their primary record buyers.

The original concept for the TV Special, "Rodgers & Hart Today", was for Pop singers and musicians to interpret standards in a contemporary style. [[Compare the versions of "My Heart Stood Still" by The Supremes vs. The Mamas & Papas, each group sings the song in their own recognizable style.) The Supremes R&H album follows that concept, rather than containing “standards” in their familiar form or in a style that would not catch the ears of their teenage fans, despite the quality.

I think this album stood out because of the lighter style of several of the songs. The back of the album proclaims: The Motown Sound! The Sound of Young America! It plays like a Supremes album, not like an adult-oriented album of standards, which I feel is the style of many of the unreleased songs.

Although I would have bought the R&H album with any combination of songs, I feel the album that was released was the right collection of songs for The Supremes in 1967.

Also, I love the cover even though I knew, at the time, that the picture of the group was not current. Although I was surprised that they didn't use something from the TV Special.

[sup_fan]

on the tv special, the mamas and papas did Sing For Your Supper. this song was originally done by a female trio in the show the composers did and it's shocking that no one thought to have the Sups include this one!