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  1. #1

    Diana Ross performing Force Behind the Power on Arsenio Hall show



    Excellent charismatic performance. How long after this performance did Motown finally release the album? Such a good album. In my top 5 of Diana Ross solo albums.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Spreadinglove21 View Post


    Excellent charismatic performance. How long after this performance did Motown finally release the album? Such a good album. In my top 5 of Diana Ross solo albums.
    I agree it is one of her finest solo albums. It's beautifully produced and performed and amongst Ms Ross's personal favourites. It still sounds wonderful 30 years down the line.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I agree it is one of her finest solo albums. It's beautifully produced and performed and amongst Ms Ross's personal favourites. It still sounds wonderful 30 years down the line.
    Bluebrock where you with her for her performance of this song and interview on aspel ? I heard she wasn't happy with Mel smith and Shirley mclaine

  4. #4
    This performance was in June or early July of 1991. Such a confusing time, but we now know Motown delayed the release. I began looking for the new single and LP immediately following this airing. BET added TFBTP to their video playlist soon after and... nothing. In early September I ran across the new DR single—WYTMTYLM, not TFBTP? The album was finally released in late September.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyB View Post
    This performance was in June or early July of 1991. Such a confusing time, but we now know Motown delayed the release. I began looking for the new single and LP immediately following this airing. BET added TFBTP to their video playlist soon after and... nothing. In early September I ran across the new DR single—WYTMTYLM, not TFBTP? The album was finally released in late September.
    I would love to know the real reason of u.s. motown's dismal marketing performance..some beef was going on between Ross and executives at the label.. something was going down it's been said they resented her new clout on returning to the label but at the end of the day it's business and personal agendas shouldn't interfere but in the 90s Motown for diana they did..the force was a strong product with good songs and diana willing to promote it..she deserved better

  6. #6
    Absolutely! This was many years before the internet, so few people knew what was happening. I remember being happy to find WYTM, but thinking, “WYTM? Where is the FBTP single?”

  7. #7
    My notes have this performance taking place on May 20, 1991. As Johnny B wrote above, there was a lot of confusion over single choice, videos, etc. It was such a mess that really messed up the album's chances, at least in the US.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    I would love to know the real reason of u.s. motown's dismal marketing performance..some beef was going on between Ross and executives at the label.. something was going down it's been said they resented her new clout on returning to the label but at the end of the day it's business and personal agendas shouldn't interfere but in the 90s Motown for diana they did..the force was a strong product with good songs and diana willing to promote it..she deserved better
    I recall Diana saying something like every time she was set to put out a new release, Motown had a new head.

    After a while, I gather it became really frustrating. There was a brief quote in Rolling Stone [I think] where she said record executives "piss" on your dreams or something like that. By 1995, supposedly she was complaining about Motown backstage at the Soul Train 25th Anniversary Special.

    But in 1999, in USA Today, she did mention that she connected with the current head, Kedar Masseburg, when he brought her a song for her upcoming album and it ended up being one she found and was interested in as well, UNTIL WE MEET AGAIN.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    Bluebrock where you with her for her performance of this song and interview on aspel ? I heard she wasn't happy with Mel smith and Shirley mclaine
    Yes i was and no she wasn't!
    I have already recently explained what happened. I think it was on tribute to Des O'Connor post from 2 or 3 months ago. If you cannot source it let me know and i will explain again. It's quite a story!

  10. #10
    I would love to hear that story!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Atasteofhoney View Post
    I would love to hear that story!
    Look in the recent archives for the Des O'Connor thread. I explained much of it in that thread.

  12. #12
    I actually did. What a mess it was. I cannot even watch the whole interview with Shirley Mac Laine, since it is too embarrassing. Poor Diana.

  13. #13
    I've seen the interview before and I was embarrassed for all of them even Diana with how she reacted. I love her but she needed to lighten up, she doesn't always have to be so serious.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    I recall Diana saying something like every time she was set to put out a new release, Motown had a new head.

    After a while, I gather it became really frustrating. There was a brief quote in Rolling Stone [I think] where she said record executives "piss" on your dreams or something like that. By 1995, supposedly she was complaining about Motown backstage at the Soul Train 25th Anniversary Special.

    But in 1999, in USA Today, she did mention that she connected with the current head, Kedar Masseburg, when he brought her a song for her upcoming album and it ended up being one she found and was interested in as well, UNTIL WE MEET AGAIN.
    Name:  diana force.jpg
Views: 280
Size:  14.9 KB meanwhile....when Motown U.S. had its head in the sand..

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Atasteofhoney View Post
    I actually did. What a mess it was. I cannot even watch the whole interview with Shirley Mac Laine, since it is too embarrassing. Poor Diana.
    It was disgraceful behaviour by Ms Maclaine. Crazy woman.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by floyjoy678 View Post
    I've seen the interview before and I was embarrassed for all of them even Diana with how she reacted. I love her but she needed to lighten up, she doesn't always have to be so serious.
    I have mentioned previously how i wished she would have just chilled out a little during interviews. That particular afternoon was an absolute car crash.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    It was disgraceful behaviour by Ms Maclaine. Crazy woman.
    As much as I respect miss Ross I'm fully aware she has,at times, showed a disappointing behavior..but on aspel she was totally right to be pissed I was annoyed and uncomfortable just watching maclaines behavior let alone having to be in studio sitting next to it..Diana was spot on in the last couple of minutes when she said "would it be appropriate if a man was doing it to a woman? ".. Shirley was acting like that because for 15 mins the show wasn't about her..I've always liked Shirley [[ her chapters in her autobiography " my lucky stars" about Sinatra and the rat pack is one of best things I've ever read)..but she acted like a fool Diana had every right to be exasperated on this occasion

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    As much as I respect miss Ross I'm fully aware she has,at times, showed a disappointing behavior..but on aspel she was totally right to be pissed I was annoyed and uncomfortable just watching maclaines behavior let alone having to be in studio sitting next to it..Diana was spot on in the last couple of minutes when she said "would it be appropriate if a man was doing it to a woman? ".. Shirley was acting like that because for 15 mins the show wasn't about her..I've always liked Shirley [[ her chapters in her autobiography " my lucky stars" about Sinatra and the rat pack is one of best things I've ever read)..but she acted like a fool Diana had every right to be exasperated on this occasion
    I was an admirer and i did request her autograph for my father who was a huge fan. Thankfully i asked her before she started drinking and she was quite friendly up to that point. Michael Aspel seemed to revel in Ms Ross's discomfort and displeasure. That surprised me because a few years earlier she had been a guest on his Capital radio show and they had got along like a house on fire. She was more than eager to appear on his tv show, but she swore never to cross paths with him again, and i do believe she stuck to that vow.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    It was disgraceful behaviour by Ms Maclaine. Crazy woman.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ldKkhIMZ3kg
    Maclaine was outta control and showed no respect by interrupting the interview. Maybe once would be ok that’s it. I doubt Diana would act like Maclaine? However, I do understand the comments that Diana needs to relax. I wonder how other stars would have reacted to Maclaine’s behavior? I would have pissed off because of the constant interruptions.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by detmotownguy View Post
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ldKkhIMZ3kg
    Maclaine was outta control and showed no respect by interrupting the interview. Maybe once would be ok that’s it. I doubt Diana would act like Maclaine? However, I do understand the comments that Diana needs to relax. I wonder how other stars would have reacted to Maclaine’s behavior? I would have pissed off because of the constant interruptions.
    It was truly dreadful. It took almost 5 hours to record the programme that ran for around 45 mins minus the adverts. The director almost cried tears of anger and frustration.
    Diana did herself few favours by shaking her head in disapproval. This merely encouraged Shirley to ramp up the bad behaviour. You saw only a fraction of the turmoil in the heavily edited broadcast. I think the Diana of the 70's and 80's would have walked off the set, but it is to her credit that she showed a reasonable level of restraint.
    On a personal note it is nice to see you back on the forum. I suspect you have endured serious health concerns during this awful time. Same goes for me. I hope you are feeling better and can face the future with confidence. Take care and be safe.

  21. #21
    When she appeared on the Tonight Show in 1991, Diana had a somewhat similar experience with one of the other guests, Mel Brooks. During the interview with Johnny, she was talking about what had happened in her life, how she had had two children very close together, etc. Mel kept interrupting her with jokes and you could tell she was getting a bit irritated, although she kept smiling. At one point she said "I'm not going to compete with this [[pointing to Mel) at all."

    At the end, when Johnny was going down the line to say goodbye to the guests, Diana jumped onto Mel's lap right when it was his turn and playfully bopped him in in the head. Johnny made a crack and Mel said "Life has improved!"

  22. #22
    This is much faster then the recorded version. Diana does well to keep up lol.
    A song I always enjoy hearing and perfect for these rather troubled times.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    This is much faster then the recorded version. Diana does well to keep up lol.
    A song I always enjoy hearing and perfect for these rather troubled times.
    As a kid I hated it, but as an adult it has grown on me. I thought it had been released as a single here in the US but I can find no evidence of this. I doubt it would have done much of anything on the pop chart, but I think she might have gotten an R&B hit out of it, especially with Stevie's involvement. Anyway, I do love the performance on Arsenio [[and the subsequent interview).

  24. #24
    always been on of my all time fav Ross solo songs.. i love the beat,the choir, the lyrics and her vocal.. the song lifts me up and had always given me strength when times have been tough

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    As a kid I hated it, but as an adult it has grown on me. I thought it had been released as a single here in the US but I can find no evidence of this. I doubt it would have done much of anything on the pop chart, but I think she might have gotten an R&B hit out of it, especially with Stevie's involvement. Anyway, I do love the performance on Arsenio [[and the subsequent interview).
    It wasn't released as a single in the US even though she sang it on Arsenio and debuted the video on VIDEO SOUL. It did end up released as a single in the UK.

  26. #26
    The words in this song don’t flow right. I think it’s too many words.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by khansperac View Post
    The words in this song don’t flow right. I think it’s too many words.
    thats the style Stevie was developing lyrically..1995's single "Tomorrow Robins Will Sing" pushes this to the limit..he seemed exhausted trying to keep up the pace of the songs structure on "Top Of The Pops"

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyB View Post
    This performance was in June or early July of 1991. Such a confusing time, but we now know Motown delayed the release. I began looking for the new single and LP immediately following this airing. BET added TFBTP to their video playlist soon after and... nothing. In early September I ran across the new DR single—WYTMTYLM, not TFBTP? The album was finally released in late September.
    Miss Ross was also waiting for Stevie to write a few more things for her. They had it planned for July, but Diana Ross said on Arsenio Hall that she was waiting for Stevie Wonder to finish up with writing the music for Spike Lee's film, "Jungle Fever."

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by khansperac View Post
    The words in this song don’t flow right. I think it’s too many words.
    I think it’s more noticeable in this sped up version. I personally really enjoy the songs inspirational lyrics but agree, there is a lot to cram in lol.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by JLoveLamar View Post
    Miss Ross was also waiting for Stevie to write a few more things for her. They had it planned for July, but Diana Ross said on Arsenio Hall that she was waiting for Stevie Wonder to finish up with writing the music for Spike Lee's film, "Jungle Fever."
    What a massive shame it never came to be. In my opinion Diana & Stevie are a natural. The song might have created more of a splash had it been a duet. It certainly would have generated further interest.
    Here in the UK it did quite well, but might have done even better had this been the case.The only rather large downside being the problem of tv promotion. :[[
    ,

  31. #31
    Damn 5 hours for that. I am completely stunned and suprised she even had the time for that. IMO she typically doesn't posseess much flexibility and likes things done her way. I bet she has never been late for a performace! Why tbe hell did she stick around? I am not a huge Ross fan [[and no I don't hate her), but will lstick up for her on the one!
    I will try to message you later to explain the last year's events.

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by detmotownguy View Post
    Damn 5 hours for that. I am completely stunned and suprised she even had the time for that. IMO she typically doesn't posseess much flexibility and likes things done her way. I bet she has never been late for a performace! Why tbe hell did she stick around? I am not a huge Ross fan [[and no I don't hate her), but will lstick up for her on the one!
    I will try to message you later to explain the last year's events.
    It will be good to touch base.

  33. #33
    After Berry Gordy sold Motown the company was not in a good state. For years the overhead was too expensive and big compared to the turnover. When MCA and Boston Ventures stepped in, Ms Ross was part owner of the brand and her desire was to invest in younger artists. However, we all know it can take up to 2 years before an artist becomes profitable. The private equity party did not have this time. So, that dream was shattered.

    As has been mentioned many times before, the US market is mainly focussed on New and Happening artists. Legacy artist, or heritage artists are always struggling to reach the charts. Yes, the sell concerts, but are seen as not "current" enough.

    Motown was struggling with several take overs, a revolving team of managers, who all wanted to put their mark on the legendary label. Remember the rebranding of the Motown Logo, the one that looked like the Warner Music logo upside down? When Polygram took over they heavily invested in the brand, by opening the Motown Cafe's, planning for Motown branded cars and other gadgets.

    In all that turmoil many artists where left on their own. No support or proper planning, no real team and most had to invent it all themselves. Ms. Ross had experience in this, so she organized her own tours, did her best to promote and got booked on some shows.

    As it now seems, Motown is in stable waters now, has a relatively long serving CEO and even an musical identity, hip hop and gospel.

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by 1382hitsville View Post
    After Berry Gordy sold Motown the company was not in a good state. For years the overhead was too expensive and big compared to the turnover. When MCA and Boston Ventures stepped in, Ms Ross was part owner of the brand and her desire was to invest in younger artists. However, we all know it can take up to 2 years before an artist becomes profitable. The private equity party did not have this time. So, that dream was shattered.

    As has been mentioned many times before, the US market is mainly focussed on New and Happening artists. Legacy artist, or heritage artists are always struggling to reach the charts. Yes, the sell concerts, but are seen as not "current" enough.

    Motown was struggling with several take overs, a revolving team of managers, who all wanted to put their mark on the legendary label. Remember the rebranding of the Motown Logo, the one that looked like the Warner Music logo upside down? When Polygram took over they heavily invested in the brand, by opening the Motown Cafe's, planning for Motown branded cars and other gadgets.

    In all that turmoil many artists where left on their own. No support or proper planning, no real team and most had to invent it all themselves. Ms. Ross had experience in this, so she organized her own tours, did her best to promote and got booked on some shows.

    As it now seems, Motown is in stable waters now, has a relatively long serving CEO and even an musical identity, hip hop and gospel.
    Interesting post hitsville.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    What a massive shame it never came to be. In my opinion Diana & Stevie are a natural. The song might have created more of a splash had it been a duet. It certainly would have generated further interest.
    Here in the UK it did quite well, but might have done even better had this been the case.The only rather large downside being the problem of tv promotion. :[[
    ,
    Never thought about it as a duet! That would've been perfect. I think this just moved into my top 10 of Ross missed opportunities.

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Never thought about it as a duet! That would've been perfect. I think this just moved into my top 10 of Ross missed opportunities.
    I think Diana would have been a great duet partner for Stevie on the songs that he did with Dionne for THE WOMAN IN RED soundtrack, IT'S YOU and WEAKNESS.

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    I think Diana would have been a great duet partner for Stevie on the songs that he did with Dionne for THE WOMAN IN RED soundtrack, IT'S YOU and WEAKNESS.
    I didnt Know Dionne was ever on a Motown album..Im surprised Clive Davis allowed it

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    I didnt Know Dionne was ever on a Motown album..Im surprised Clive Davis allowed it
    I guess it was an opportunity for Dionne to spread her wings as she was the music coordinator for the film. Plus all three of her tracks eventually ended up on her next two Arista albums.

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    I guess it was an opportunity for Dionne to spread her wings as she was the music coordinator for the film. Plus all three of her tracks eventually ended up on her next two Arista albums.
    that would be Clive playing hard ball with Motown..he was fiercely protective of his roster on Arista

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