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  1. #1

    ross 83 & Central Park

    I was playing the superbly remastered version of ross 83 this morning, thinking how contemporary it still sounds when compared with Diana’s other rca albums.
    Contemplating why it didn’t perform better at the time, wrong choice of singles is the obvious conclusion by most.
    Another major factor i believe was the Central Park concert itself. As regards ross 83 i think it did more harm then good. With the incredible media coverage that CP generated, the album kind of got lost in the hoopla. Any additional attention the album might have received was diverted back to CP.
    Would it perhaps have done better had it been released later in the year?.

  2. #2
    I think had Ross83 been a better album, the Central Park show would've boosted sales through the roof. Officially I wonder how the sales were doing pre-CP and afterwards. Would be very interesting to see if the album got a boost at all. I imagine it did. Had Diana managed to snag Quincy or even Lionel to helm the entire 83 album, with the tie in to Central Park, Diana might have had the biggest album of her career.

  3. #3
    Ross 83 is a very stylized package. while not lyrically thematic in content, there's a definite tone and vibe through much of the material. but there's no real "wow," no peaks, nothing that leaps off the disc and helps lead the excitement about the overall package. This doesn't mean all of the content is inferior but rather it's more about the whole than an individual song.

    A similar case could be made for the Touch lp by the Sups. frankly the songs are stronger on Touch than Ross 83 but again, few of them work as well as individual tunes - ie a single released to radio.

    So you have this mega concert - huge, bombastic. Then layer on the typical DIANA ROSS of sequins and hair and all of that. Plus the craziness of Mother Nature with the storm. and then the accompanying album is this moody, low key, cold set that really requires the patience and calm to sit and listen through the full 35 mins.

    Big disconnect there. She should have planned something like Swept Away to time with the concerts. while there really is no unifying sound or concept, there are quite a few songs that leap out. SA, Touch by Touch could both have been high-energy highlights of the concert. Missing You and All of Me would have lovely ballads. We Are The Children might have worked better live with kids from the audience joining in. plus it's such an anthem-sounding tune. just wish the kids were NOT on the lp version

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Ross 83 is a very stylized package. while not lyrically thematic in content, there's a definite tone and vibe through much of the material. but there's no real "wow," no peaks, nothing that leaps off the disc and helps lead the excitement about the overall package. This doesn't mean all of the content is inferior but rather it's more about the whole than an individual song.

    A similar case could be made for the Touch lp by the Sups. frankly the songs are stronger on Touch than Ross 83 but again, few of them work as well as individual tunes - ie a single released to radio.

    So you have this mega concert - huge, bombastic. Then layer on the typical DIANA ROSS of sequins and hair and all of that. Plus the craziness of Mother Nature with the storm. and then the accompanying album is this moody, low key, cold set that really requires the patience and calm to sit and listen through the full 35 mins.

    Big disconnect there. She should have planned something like Swept Away to time with the concerts. while there really is no unifying sound or concept, there are quite a few songs that leap out. SA, Touch by Touch could both have been high-energy highlights of the concert. Missing You and All of Me would have lovely ballads. We Are The Children might have worked better live with kids from the audience joining in. plus it's such an anthem-sounding tune. just wish the kids were NOT on the lp version
    Interesting point. As good as it is, It may have been the wrong style of album for that period of time. A little to stylised and even sophisticated for a monumental gig like CP. Not to much for the gigantic crowd to sing along to.
    I agree, ”Touch ByTouch, “Swept Away” and “Missing You” would probably have gone down well at CP.
    Performing We Are The Children” might have proved potentially dangerous. A stampede of people desperate to flee the park at the same time might generated the wrong kind of headlines.

  5. #5
    i think the style and sound of Ross 83 was perfect for 83. but just not perfect for the planned CP activity.

    Thinking about it though, Ross 83 could have also done well as Ross 82 lol. release it a year earlier maybe

    would Muscles have worked on this album, along with the 5 Gary Katz pieces and the 2 Ray Parker? so in other words, cut Girls [[which i'm sure no one would cry over lol). Muscles is also synth heavy. just wondering if you could take that 1 track from SE and the 7 tracks from Ross 83 and make Ross 82?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Interesting point. As good as it is, It may have been the wrong style of album for that period of time. A little to stylised and even sophisticated for a monumental gig like CP. Not to much for the gigantic crowd to sing along to.
    I agree, ”Touch ByTouch, “Swept Away” and “Missing You” would probably have gone down well at CP.
    Performing We Are The Children” might have proved potentially dangerous. A stampede of people desperate to flee the park at the same time might generated the wrong kind of headlines.
    haha hey if Diana could keep people calm during a storm, i think she could have kept them from panicking over Children lolol

    If you remove the hideous children's choir, the song isn't terrible. it is very 80s anthem and very much something they could have used in some movie montage segment of a teen flick lol. in the song, where it drops to just the kids singing, in a live version, Diana could have used that as a singalong segment. Maybe utilize it as an updated and more energetic version of Reach Out and Touch. get everyone to sing along. hold hands and arms up in the air

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    If you remove the hideous children's choir, the song isn't terrible.
    Erm.....ok....yea!. I’ll just let myself out quietly.

  8. #8
    in 1983 Miss Ross was up against tough competition on the pop chart - huge selling singles that were considered "instant classics'- Bonnie Tylers "Total Eclispe Of The Heart". Mj's "Billie Jean" The Police "Every Breath You Take"..Irene Cara's "Flashdance" and more..no wonder Pieces of Ice and Lets Go Up got lost in the shuffle...

    By the release of "Eaten Alive" Madonna was the hot new thing..Janet Jackson.Whitney & Jody Watley were,or about to, go into heavy MTV rotation..Anita Baker had a huge Buzz..Tina Turner had retuned to accolades from yrs in professional wilderness..

    in this time period the percentage spent by the public on female artists was significantly lower to male artists..Diana had tough competition to fight her corner of that revenue share..

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    in 1983 Miss Ross was up against tough competition on the pop chart - huge selling singles that were considered "instant classics'- Bonnie Tylers "Total Eclispe Of The Heart". Mj's "Billie Jean" The Police "Every Breath You Take"..Irene Cara's "Flashdance" and more..no wonder Pieces of Ice and Lets Go Up got lost in the shuffle...

    By the release of "Eaten Alive" Madonna was the hot new thing..Janet Jackson.Whitney & Jody Watley were,or about to, go into heavy MTV rotation..Anita Baker had a huge Buzz..Tina Turner had retuned to accolades from yrs in professional wilderness..

    in this time period the percentage spent by the public on female artists was significantly lower to male artists..Diana had tough competition to fight her corner of that revenue share..
    With the right material she could have ruled the 80’s. The music world was holding its breath for another ‘diana’ type album. The rest is history.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    With the right material she could have ruled the 80’s. The music world was holding its breath for another ‘diana’ type album. The rest is history.
    i'm not so sure about that. at least in the US. the record buying public here is SO fickle. and age is the death knell for female artists. kids typically ignore artists their parents listened to, much less their grandparents. heck they sometimes even ignore artists their older siblings liked!! lol

    I think the real opportunity for Diana was her first lp or two at RCA. and they did produce some high charting songs, even if they aren't necessarily the most memorable of her career.

    After that, it would be hit or miss. even if she did always release strong material [[which she didn't) i think, at best, she would only have gotten occasional hits and just moderate success

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i'm not so sure about that. at least in the US. the record buying public here is SO fickle. and age is the death knell for female artists. kids typically ignore artists their parents listened to, much less their grandparents. heck they sometimes even ignore artists their older siblings liked!! lol

    I think the real opportunity for Diana was her first lp or two at RCA. and they did produce some high charting songs, even if they aren't necessarily the most memorable of her career.

    After that, it would be hit or miss. even if she did always release strong material [[which she didn't) i think, at best, she would only have gotten occasional hits and just moderate success
    many female singers in Diana's age group floundered in the wake of the juggernaut that MTV became..
    Olivia Newton John was basically done after the huge success of 'Physical'..no one was buying Cher. [[until 1987).Dionne's popularity sunk..so did The Carpenters in Karens final tragic days..Bette Midler and Aretha scored top 40 hits but like Diana it was a hit and miss affair..Donna Summer struggled after 'She Works Hard'..Streisand tried her hand with two MTV aimed singles and the response was lukewarm..Liza's brilliiant album with The Pet Shop Boys flopped in the U.S..

    Diana was lucky to have a huge following out of the U.S...the 80s was a tough period for many females who had strong sales in the 1970s...
    Last edited by nomis; 04-15-2021 at 06:27 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    Liza's brilliiant album with The Pet Shop Boys flopped in the U.S..
    I freakin' love Results!!!!!

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by JLoveLamar View Post
    I freakin' love Results!!!!!
    its utterly brilliant and unique..one of the best albums ive ever heard..teaming Minnelli with PSB was a stroke of sheer genius..

  14. #14
    Diana did great in the 80’s. Sure she fizzled out after 1986 or so, but 80-86 can’t be belittled or dismissed.

  15. #15
    I agree with Ollie on this. Diana was so popular and because she was in a league of her own she had the chance to bulldoze through the 80s as a consistent hit maker. Her RCA debut, which is basically diana80 followup, should have been produced by Quincy Jones. I think he could've done a great job of building off the more funky image of diana80 and still give her enough material to really sink her teeth into. Hopefully that album is big enough to carry her through 81-82.

    Nothing anybody did in 1983 would [[or could) eclipse MJ's phenomenal run at the top, but Diana dropping an album that same year [[probably later in the year), again produced by Q, could have really been huge, especially if Q was attempting to outdo himself with what he did for Michael. Again, he wasn't going to outdo himself, but surely his brilliant mind would've given Diana some worthy attempts.

    The next album drops in 85. This time Diana has wised up and enticed Masser to produce for her again. A whole album? Personally I prefer not. A whole one side of an album? I'd give him that. Give the other side to some current heavy hitters.

    Love the RHRAB concept, but she should have brought in the best producers to make the songs live up to the title.

    Throw a live album somewhere in there. That's five albums. I'm guessing her contract could've been extended to include two additional albums to satisfy the original terms. Maybe a duet album [[but with who?). Maybe a gospel album. Maybe the Arlen album. She could release those during her downtime devoted to family, just make sure she still has product out there.

    I think the public was always waiting for Diana to bust out something that blew our minds. But after a certain point when it looks like that just wasn't going to happen, the public moved on and there was probably no coming back.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by khansperac View Post
    Diana did great in the 80’s. Sure she fizzled out after 1986 or so, but 80-86 can’t be belittled or dismissed.
    Can't be dismissed, agreed. It can be belittled though. I do it all the time.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I agree with Ollie on this. Diana was so popular and because she was in a league of her own she had the chance to bulldoze through the 80s as a consistent hit maker. Her RCA debut, which is basically diana80 followup, should have been produced by Quincy Jones. I think he could've done a great job of building off the more funky image of diana80 and still give her enough material to really sink her teeth into. Hopefully that album is big enough to carry her through 81-82.

    Nothing anybody did in 1983 would [[or could) eclipse MJ's phenomenal run at the top, but Diana dropping an album that same year [[probably later in the year), again produced by Q, could have really been huge, especially if Q was attempting to outdo himself with what he did for Michael. Again, he wasn't going to outdo himself, but surely his brilliant mind would've given Diana some worthy attempts.

    The next album drops in 85. This time Diana has wised up and enticed Masser to produce for her again. A whole album? Personally I prefer not. A whole one side of an album? I'd give him that. Give the other side to some current heavy hitters.

    Love the RHRAB concept, but she should have brought in the best producers to make the songs live up to the title.

    Throw a live album somewhere in there. That's five albums. I'm guessing her contract could've been extended to include two additional albums to satisfy the original terms. Maybe a duet album [[but with who?). Maybe a gospel album. Maybe the Arlen album. She could release those during her downtime devoted to family, just make sure she still has product out there.

    I think the public was always waiting for Diana to bust out something that blew our minds. But after a certain point when it looks like that just wasn't going to happen, the public moved on and there was probably no coming back.
    Couldn't agree more. If not those albums with Quincy, then at least one more album with Nile and Bernard. More ‘diana’ style then ‘WO’.
    Diana has one of the most commercial voices in pop music history. That’s what sets her apart from the pack. By 1981 she had built one hell of a fan base and was at the peak of her popularity. The decade was hers for the taking. The rest is history.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Love the RHRAB concept, but she should have brought in the best producers to make the songs live up to the title.
    That's the thing I've never understood of RHRAB [[which, btw, I LOVED when it came out, but now I do find it a bit boring and the producing a bit too generic) is that she had a GREAT producer for this project -- Tom Dowd -- who should have been able to bring out the "red hot rhythm and blues," but eventually doesn't. I'm not a musicologist, so I am not able to specifically point out why the album instrumentation and production seems so unnecessarily bland and generic [[particularly on songs like "There Goes My Baby"). Ross's voice is spot on, much better than on previous RCA albums. I still think it is a good album, but it wasn't "red hot"...

  19. #19
    "Pieces of Ice" is a great song of music. As for its words, please rewrite the song title and lyrics. I like renaming songs. For this one, I am a piece of dry ice!

  20. #20
    Bluebrock has mentioned this a lot and frankly I think it's the best explanation of DR in the 80s. she was focused elsewhere. #1 was her girls. and what a wonderful thing to be focused on - she should be rightly proud.

    had she had a more strategic focus on the music, she might have been able to land some stronger producers. I believe she tried quite a few times to get Q but with no luck. She apparently wouldn't work with Masser. She did one track with Perry [[the single version of So Close i believe) but certainly opportunity for more.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Bluebrock has mentioned this a lot and frankly I think it's the best explanation of DR in the 80s. she was focused elsewhere. #1 was her girls. and what a wonderful thing to be focused on - she should be rightly proud.

    had she had a more strategic focus on the music, she might have been able to land some stronger producers. I believe she tried quite a few times to get Q but with no luck. She apparently wouldn't work with Masser. She did one track with Perry [[the single version of So Close i believe) but certainly opportunity for more.
    I think you can make great music and still be devoted to your family. I suspect control and expenditure were the main issues.
    I have never heard of Q turning her down other then for the rca debut album. It seems odd as i rather thought they were friends.

  22. #22
    maybe "turned down" is not the right phrase. tied up with other projects maybe is better.

    And I'm just briefly paraphrasing some of the posts Blue has made on here. she had a lot of things going on in the 80s that appear to be taking priority over music - business ventures, planning the central park dates, tours, etc. and all of that was a clear and distant 2nd priority to her family.

    I get what you're saying about her desire for control. I'm not aware of a producer saying "no way" to working with her. My guess is the opposite - DR said no way cuz she knew they would demand control and she didn't want to relinquish that

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Couldn't agree more. If not those albums with Quincy, then at least one more album with Nile and Bernard. More ‘diana’ style then ‘WO’.
    Diana has one of the most commercial voices in pop music history. That’s what sets her apart from the pack. By 1981 she had built one hell of a fan base and was at the peak of her popularity. The decade was hers for the taking. The rest is history.
    Yeah if they could've given her something other than WO, that may have been a good move also.

    It's great points that others have made about the competition at this time. There was a new generation ruling the airwaves, with Whitney appearing to step into Diana's spot. The reason why I'm so convinced that Diana could've weathered all of that is because she had her own spot. [[And clearly Whitney ended up carving out her own place.) Even in the 70s, Diana could go two or three years without a big hit and then...BAM! She's on top again. And she'd do it in the age of Aretha, Labelle, Natalie, Olivia, Linda and so many other hot female hit makers. She was a special kind of artist. You really couldn't label her, couldn't box her in. She appealed to the masses, on every level. Had she kept her mind on the music, or rather had she had someone controlling her career, the decade was hers for the taking.

    Whitney was going to get hers. So was Janet. So was Madonna. Those three queens of the 80s had the youth market on lock. But don't sleep on the fact that people who were the youth of the 60s and 70s were still buying music. Sometimes when the accusation is thrown around that we here in the states are fickle when it comes to our support, an accusation I have thrown around a time or 12 myself, I wonder though if it's the public who gets fickle or the industry itself which sings a "signal" that someone's time has come and gone, no matter how good the music. Of course another frustrating thing about Diana is that her time ended with less quality music, not high quality music that leaves folks scratching their heads as to why the public didn't buy it.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I think you can make great music and still be devoted to your family. I suspect control and expenditure were the main issues.
    I have never heard of Q turning her down other then for the rca debut album. It seems odd as i rather thought they were friends.
    Agreed. I think for much of the RCA period, weren't her daughters in boarding school? I definitely get the family angle once she married and then was pregnant back to back. But most of the RCA stuff wasn't released during that period. She wanted to be on top of everything, which is understandable, but she wasn't qualified for the job. Her legacy took a hit.

    My understanding the Quincy issue is that he was at least considered for the RCA debut but was in the middle of producing someone else, Patti Austin I believe. I don't think he ever just turned Diana down just to turn her down.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaap View Post
    That's the thing I've never understood of RHRAB [[which, btw, I LOVED when it came out, but now I do find it a bit boring and the producing a bit too generic) is that she had a GREAT producer for this project -- Tom Dowd -- who should have been able to bring out the "red hot rhythm and blues," but eventually doesn't. I'm not a musicologist, so I am not able to specifically point out why the album instrumentation and production seems so unnecessarily bland and generic [[particularly on songs like "There Goes My Baby"). Ross's voice is spot on, much better than on previous RCA albums. I still think it is a good album, but it wasn't "red hot"...
    The look she gave barbra walters in the 1989 interview when she dared to suggest the rhrab project wasn't a success..

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    The look she gave barbra walters in the 1989 interview when she dared to suggest the rhrab project wasn't a success..
    Not to mention when Barbara questioned her on the public’s perception. I honestly thought they were going to come to blows.
    I believe security were seen to stand a shade closer from that point on

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    many female singers in Diana's age group floundered in the wake of the juggernaut that MTV became..
    Olivia Newton John was basically done after the huge success of 'Physical'..no one was buying Cher. [[until 1987).Dionne's popularity sunk..so did The Carpenters in Karens final tragic days..Bette Midler and Aretha scored top 40 hits but like Diana it was a hit and miss affair..Donna Summer struggled after 'She Works Hard'..Streisand tried her hand with two MTV aimed singles and the response was lukewarm..Liza's brilliiant album with The Pet Shop Boys flopped in the U.S..

    Diana was lucky to have a huge following out of the U.S...the 80s was a tough period for many females who had strong sales in the 1970s...
    I did not realise Results tanked in the USA. It was quite big iń the UK as i recall. Liza came over to do totp and other shows. I was with her for a couple of engagements which were eventful to say the least. A deeply troubled lady who carried a very heavy burden.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Bluebrock has mentioned this a lot and frankly I think it's the best explanation of DR in the 80s. she was focusedelsewhere. #1 was her girls. and what a wonderful thing to be focused on - she should be rightly proud.

    had she had a more strategic focus on the music, she might have been able to land some stronger producers. I believe she tried quite a few times to get Q but with no luck. She apparently wouldn't work with Masser. She did one track with Perry [[the single version of So Close i believe) but certainly opportunity for more.
    Yes Sup Fan. I have painstakingly pointed out on numerous occasions why Ms Ross took something of a back seat in the 80's. She continued to work hard, but did not push herself to the brink of destruction the way she did in the 60's and 70's. People seem to disregard the breakdowns and the eating disorders that almost put an end to her career back then. She learned from her mistakes and was determined not to risk her personal well being for the sake of taking other paths in her career. There was no question of her being lazy or resting on her laurels. Self preservation and her family were her main priorities and quite rightly so.
    As regards working with Quincy it did almost happen and was indeed scheduled to happen. I have previously explained how Quincy was all set to produce her rca debut, but due to a delay in finishing producing Patti Austin's superb "every home should have one" he asked Ms Ross to wait 6 months whilst he completed working with Patti. The reason behind the delay was a health issue for Patti. I was told this story by Patti herself. She was genuinely upset at holding up Ms Ross's album and she tried to make amends by singing back up vocals for Miss Ross on either Fools or Silk Electric.
    Rca were desperate for the debut album and were unwilling to wait for Quincy much to his dismay. A new producer was sought at very short notice to no avail which is why she attempted to self produce the album. Quincy was totally pissed off with Ms Ross and rca and instead agreed to produce Donna Summer instead. He rebuffed all future attempts by Ms Ross to secure his services.
    I am the first to admit she made some huge mistakes with her musical mishaps in the 80's, but she also had to contend with some health issues which are not up for discussion on a public forum. She had a lot to contend with, and she did not have Berry Gordy to lean on for support. She struggled in many ways until she met and fell in love with her future husband in the mid 80's. We need to cut her some slack. She coped very well in difficult circumstances. I think any genuine fan would fully understand why the 80's were so underwhelming compared to previous decades if they knew just some of what was going on in her life. I would much rather put up with some substandard albums than risk pushing her to the edge of destruction

    End of rant.

  29. #29
    just to add to above, rememeber RCA brought on diana, barry manilow, kenny rogers and the Pointer Sisters,.....all of which started the 80s off strong and then, they were all gone. RCA had new mgrs and wanted new blood, i believe the wanted the older artists out. when EA was released , i remember thinking RCA really doesnt care. it was over

  30. #30
    did Diana promote this album? i remember the video of POI and once she performed Lets Go Up ,maybe in central park. i would have added more lp cuts to the live shows,.i dont recall her performing anything other than Lets Go Up

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    did Diana promote this album? i remember the video of POI and once she performed Lets Go Up ,maybe in central park. i would have added more lp cuts to the live shows,.i dont recall her performing anything other than Lets Go Up
    Other than Central Park and a TONIGHT SHOW appearance, I don't recall Diana doing much promotion for ROSS [[1983).

    But that was how her solo career had gone for the most part, at least in the USA. She might do a Tonight Show or a morning show here and there. But it wasn't like there were appearances on SOUL TRAIN or AMERICAN BANDSTAND with every single release. She relied on her rep and later on, music videos. And for ROSS [[1983), only one single received a music video.

    She did go on a lengthy tour after Central Park. I caught the second date and was surprised that the only new song was LET'S GO UP. That said, she might have added other songs to the show as the tour progressed. But when I saw her in 1984, she still had LET'S GO UP in the set list so she must have really liked that one.

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Yes Sup Fan. I have painstakingly pointed out on numerous occasions why Ms Ross took something of a back seat in the 80's. She continued to work hard, but did not push herself to the brink of destruction the way she did in the 60's and 70's. People seem to disregard the breakdowns and the eating disorders that almost put an end to her career back then. She learned from her mistakes and was determined not to risk her personal well being for the sake of taking other paths in her career. There was no question of her being lazy or resting on her laurels. Self preservation and her family were her main priorities and quite rightly so.
    As regards working with Quincy it did almost happen and was indeed scheduled to happen. I have previously explained how Quincy was all set to produce her rca debut, but due to a delay in finishing producing Patti Austin's superb "every home should have one" he asked Ms Ross to wait 6 months whilst he completed working with Patti. The reason behind the delay was a health issue for Patti. I was told this story by Patti herself. She was genuinely upset at holding up Ms Ross's album and she tried to make amends by singing back up vocals for Miss Ross on either Fools or Silk Electric.
    Rca were desperate for the debut album and were unwilling to wait for Quincy much to his dismay. A new producer was sought at very short notice to no avail which is why she attempted to self produce the album. Quincy was totally pissed off with Ms Ross and rca and instead agreed to produce Donna Summer instead. He rebuffed all future attempts by Ms Ross to secure his services.
    I am the first to admit she made some huge mistakes with her musical mishaps in the 80's, but she also had to contend with some health issues which are not up for discussion on a public forum. She had a lot to contend with, and she did not have Berry Gordy to lean on for support. She struggled in many ways until she met and fell in love with her future husband in the mid 80's. We need to cut her some slack. She coped very well in difficult circumstances. I think any genuine fan would fully understand why the 80's were so underwhelming compared to previous decades if they knew just some of what was going on in her life. I would much rather put up with some substandard albums than risk pushing her to the edge of destruction

    End of rant.
    The last full sentence is everything. I never cease to be amazed of the selfishness of some who claim to be 'fans'. But that's just me.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Other than Central Park and a TONIGHT SHOW appearance, I don't recall Diana doing much promotion for ROSS [[1983).

    But that was how her solo career had gone for the most part, at least in the USA. She might do a Tonight Show or a morning show here and there. But it wasn't like there were appearances on SOUL TRAIN or AMERICAN BANDSTAND with every single release. She relied on her rep and later on, music videos. And for ROSS [[1983), only one single received a music video.

    She did go on a lengthy tour after Central Park. I caught the second date and was surprised that the only new song was LET'S GO UP. That said, she might have added other songs to the show as the tour progressed. But when I saw her in 1984, she still had LET'S GO UP in the set list so she must have really liked that one.
    I doubt she added any further Ross 83 songs to her set list. She was probably thinking of her next project by then. Yet another album she didn’t like I guess.

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Yes Sup Fan. I have painstakingly pointed out on numerous occasions why Ms Ross took something of a back seat in the 80's. She continued to work hard, but did not push herself to the brink of destruction the way she did in the 60's and 70's. People seem to disregard the breakdowns and the eating disorders that almost put an end to her career back then. She learned from her mistakes and was determined not to risk her personal well being for the sake of taking other paths in her career. There was no question of her being lazy or resting on her laurels. Self preservation and her family were her main priorities and quite rightly so.
    As regards working with Quincy it did almost happen and was indeed scheduled to happen. I have previously explained how Quincy was all set to produce her rca debut, but due to a delay in finishing producing Patti Austin's superb "every home should have one" he asked Ms Ross to wait 6 months whilst he completed working with Patti. The reason behind the delay was a health issue for Patti. I was told this story by Patti herself. She was genuinely upset at holding up Ms Ross's album and she tried to make amends by singing back up vocals for Miss Ross on either Fools or Silk Electric.
    Rca were desperate for the debut album and were unwilling to wait for Quincy much to his dismay. A new producer was sought at very short notice to no avail which is why she attempted to self produce the album. Quincy was totally pissed off with Ms Ross and rca and instead agreed to produce Donna Summer instead. He rebuffed all future attempts by Ms Ross to secure his services.
    I am the first to admit she made some huge mistakes with her musical mishaps in the 80's, but she also had to contend with some health issues which are not up for discussion on a public forum. She had a lot to contend with, and she did not have Berry Gordy to lean on for support. She struggled in many ways until she met and fell in love with her future husband in the mid 80's. We need to cut her some slack. She coped very well in difficult circumstances. I think any genuine fan would fully understand why the 80's were so underwhelming compared to previous decades if they knew just some of what was going on in her life. I would much rather put up with some substandard albums than risk pushing her to the edge of destruction

    End of rant.
    I don’t think anyone was implying she was lazy, just that she might have extended the huge success she experienced with the the diana album had she worked with more sympathetic producers. I would have thought that working with a producer on an album would ease rather then increase responsibility. If that was going to push her to to edge of destruction, then I for one am rather pleased she took control and decided to produce herself.
    Not many genuine fans would be aware that she was suffering serious health issues during the 80’s, or what was going down in her personal life. How could they possibly?. It’s certainly the first time I have ever heard of any of this.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I doubt she added any further Ross 83 songs to her set list. She was probably thinking of her next project by then. Yet another album she didn’t like I guess.
    In J. Randy's last book, he wrote that she wasn't happy with ROSS [1983] and was working to make her next album [SWEPT AWAY] a really good one. I do know that when I saw her in 1984, SWEPT AWAY was barely out but she featured four of its songs in the concert so she probably liked that one more.

    Also, I would suspect that in the 1983-1984 era, she was also preoccupied with her mom's illness and eventual passing. So that also could have contributed to whatever plans she had for ROSS [1983].

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I did not realise Results tanked in the USA. It was quite big iń the UK as i recall. Liza came over to do totp and other shows. I was with her for a couple of engagements which were eventful to say the least. A deeply troubled lady who carried a very heavy burden.
    Bluebrock - where you there on the TOTPs performance of "Losing My Mind" ? where she was allowed to break strict BBC rules and smoke in the TOTPS studio ?..an amasing talent but like you said she has always struggled with dark demons

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I did not realise Results tanked in the USA. It was quite big iń the UK as i recall. Liza came over to do totp and other shows. I was with her for a couple of engagements which were eventful to say the least. A deeply troubled lady who carried a very heavy burden.
    Yes, sadly 'Results' was not a chart success here in the USA, and that's our/their loss. It's a WONDERFUL lp that I still spin to this day; PSB managed a perfect cross between cool and camp and Minnelli was at a vocal peak. And yes, Liza has not only the burden of ghastly parenting and then becoming a de facto parent just at the time and age she was managing to make a break from the past and chart a new course. Once again, I have the advantage of NOT having to deal personally with performers I love and I do love Minnelli. At her peak [which, really, lasted decades] I personally witnessed Liza utterly levitate Carnegie Hall, Radio City, the Beacon, the Wintergarden, and other theatres here in the NYC metro area. I'm certainly sorry if you had bad experiences with the lady, but such is life and we all have bad experiences at work. Liza is like a character in a Greek tragedy who managed to pretty much both exceed and side-step public expectations. I will always wish her the best; she certainly made my life better! In closing ... Monroe, Garland, Joplin and Morrison are beloved for being troubled, lost souls and dying young. Liza had the utter temerity to keep living. You. Go. GIRL!!!
    Last edited by PeaceNHarmony; 04-17-2021 at 06:13 PM.

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    Yes, sadly 'Results' was not a chart success here in the USA, and that's our/their loss. It's a WONDERFUL lp that I still spin to this day; PSB managed a perfect cross between cool and camp and Minnelli was at a vocal peak. And yes, Liza has not only the burden of ghastly parenting and then becoming a de facto parent just at the time and age she was managing to make a break from the past and chart a new course. Once again, I have the advantage of NOT having to deal personally with performers I love and I do love Minnelli. At her peak [which, really, lasted decades] I personally witnessed Liza utterly levitate Carnegie Hall, Radio City, the Beacon, the Wintergarden, and other theatres here in the NYC metro area. I'm certainly sorry if you had bad experiences with the lady, but such is life and we all have bad experiences at work. Liza is like a character in a Greek tragedy who managed to pretty much both exceed and side-step public expectations. I will always wish her the best; she certainly made my life better! In closing ... Monroe, Garland, Joplin and Morrison are beloved for being troubled, lost souls and dying young. Liza had the utter temerity to keep living. You. Go. GIRL!!!
    wow PeacenHarmony how wonderful you saw her live ! I always felt she never really got the props she deserved "stepping Out" of the shadow of Judy Garland is no easy task but she built her own identity and like her mother,not only an incredible vocalist - but a gifted dancer and actress as well..when I got the dvd of "Liza With A Z" tv concert directed by Fosse..I was stunned - she gives her all on stage and did it with out going near her mothers catalog which would have been easy for her to do..I, Like you wish her nothing but love and a peace of mind.."Results" is a masterpiece

  39. #39
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  40. #40
    just wonder what dianas process is for recording an album. i kinda feel she is used to producers like HDH who control everything and she shows up to record the songs and has no say so , or does she get envolved
    why didnt she abort albums like WO that she didnt care for and start over with another producer.
    some projects she seems invested with other she seems not so much

  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    just wonder what dianas process is for recording an album. i kinda feel she is used to producers like HDH who control everything and she shows up to record the songs and has no say so , or does she get envolved
    why didnt she abort albums like WO that she didnt care for and start over with another producer.
    some projects she seems invested with other she seems not so much
    Speaking entirely from outside the inside, I believe we all forget sometimes that recorded music is a business and like most business there are contracts that must be adhered to. Even the biggest-of-the-big sometimes have to put out lps when the creativity is not at its peak or the product is not quite perfected.

  42. #42
    i think its a case of yin and yang - some tracks she recorded have personal autobiographical meaning to her -

    Upside Down
    Reach Out & Touch
    Its My Turn
    If We Hold On Together
    Force Behind The Power
    My Man
    He lives in You
    I Will Survive
    Take Me Higher
    To The Baby project
    Thats Why I call You My Friend
    Home
    Best Years Of My Life
    some of her work is focused on a hit - using top producers to try and obtain this -

    Workin Overtime LP
    Swept Away
    Muscles
    Eaten Alive LP
    Touch Me In The Morning
    Dirty Looks

  43. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I don’t think anyone was implying she was lazy, just that she might have extended the huge success she experienced with the the diana album had she worked with more sympathetic producers. I would have thought that working with a producer on an album would ease rather then increase responsibility. If that was going to push her to to edge of destruction, then I for one am rather pleased she took control and decided to produce herself.
    Not many genuine fans would be aware that she was suffering serious health issues during the 80’s, or what was going down in her personal life. How could they possibly?. It’s certainly the first time I have ever heard of any of this.
    Yeah, how can you cut slack for something you're unaware of? I'm glad Ms. Ross is getting all this slack. It's gets nasty around here if somebody gives Flo some. Or even Mary, for that matter.

  44. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    Bluebrock - where you there on the TOTPs performance of "Losing My Mind" ? where she was allowed to break strict BBC rules and smoke in the TOTPS studio ?..an amasing talent but like you said she has always struggled with dark demons
    Yes i was and it was absolute chaos!

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