The Supremes AFTER MSS

[marybrewster]

IF.....

Mary, Scherrie, and Susaye would have recorded one more LP after MSS, what sound/direction do you think they would have went to? Assuming this would have been released in 1977/1978, would it have been more disco? Would it have been similar to the sound from the "Mary Wilson" or "Partners" LPs?

[reese]

I vaguely remember some fan club newsletters from around that time where Susaye and maybe Scherrie might have mentioned the possibility of more of their compositions being included on the next album. So maybe it might have been like what we got with PARTNERS.

[RanRan79]

Probably disco Partners.

Now what should they have done? I'd like to have heard them in more of the Emotions vibe.

[marybrewster]

Probably disco Partners.

Now what should they have done? I'd like to have heard them in more of the Emotions vibe.

I agree. If you're familiar with their catalog, "A Feeling Is" would have been a perfect vehicle for Scherrie's vocals and Susaye's hootin' and hollerin'.

[sup_fan]

a few ideas

while i would have love S and S doing some writing and producing, this was motown after all. sexism was rampant so frankly i doubt they would have been allowed to

if the Hollands had stayed with the girls, i wonder if they might have taken some of the more experimental songs like Sweet Dream Machine and Come Into My Life and built a follow up album more around them

or if the Hollands were not in the picture, i think a more sexy style would have worked well for the girls. maybe Kent Washington, who produced much of High Inergy's Turnin' On lp.

[telekin]

As much as I love the Holland's work on the last three records, I do wonder sometimes what would have happened if The Supremes got in on the ground floor with some up-and-coming producers at the time, like Nile & Bernard of Chic for example. Or if they teamed up with some Motown people they hadn't worked with yet, like Norman Whitfield or Willie Hutch.

There's also the self-titled album by the Detroit sister trio Three Ounces of Love that came out on Motown the year after The Supremes disbanded. I sometimes listen to that wondering whether that would have been a Supremes album had they continued. It featured many of the same producers and arrangers, like Greg Wright and the Holland Brothers, who were also on the last three Supremes records.

[Bluebrock]

As much as I love the Holland's work on the last three records, I do wonder sometimes what would have happened if The Supremes got in on the ground floor with some up-and-coming producers at the time, like Nile & Bernard of Chic for example. Or if they teamed up with some Motown people they hadn't worked with yet, like Norman Whitfield or Willie Hutch.

There's also the self-titled album by the Detroit sister trio Three Ounces of Love that came out on Motown the year after The Supremes disbanded. I sometimes listen to that wondering whether that would have been a Supremes album had they continued. It featured many of the same producers and arrangers, like Greg Wright and the Holland Brothers, who were also on the last three Supremes records.

Not heard that album. Was it a good album?

[telekin]

Not heard that album. Was it a good album?

I really enjoy it. Perhaps not as much as I enjoy MSS, but it's a quality album. For me, the tracks by the Holland Brothers are the strongest, along with "Star Love," which was produced by Greg Wright. "I've Got A Right To Be Loved" reminds me somewhat of "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking" and "In The Middle of the Feeling" has a similar vibe to High Inergy's "You Can't Turn Me Off."

Some Youtube Links:
Star Love - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YovrOYaFIOk
I've Got A Right To Be Loved https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elEvfYu_aY8
In The Middle of the Feeling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBL4448mpcA

[marybrewster]

As much as I love the Holland's work on the last three records, I do wonder sometimes what would have happened if The Supremes got in on the ground floor with some up-and-coming producers at the time, like Nile & Bernard of Chic for example. Or if they teamed up with some Motown people they hadn't worked with yet, like Norman Whitfield or Willie Hutch.

There's also the self-titled album by the Detroit sister trio Three Ounces of Love that came out on Motown the year after The Supremes disbanded. I sometimes listen to that wondering whether that would have been a Supremes album had they continued. It featured many of the same producers and arrangers, like Greg Wright and the Holland Brothers, who were also on the last three Supremes records.

I agree. While the Hollands were HOT in the 60's, they began to cool in the 70's. Yes, they still had hits, but they were giving them to everyone BUT the Supremes. With new members, a new image and new sound were desperately needed, yet they kept going back to what once worked.

By 1974, it no longer did.

[RanRan79]

I agree. If you're familiar with their catalog, "A Feeling Is" would have been a perfect vehicle for Scherrie's vocals and Susaye's hootin' and hollerin'.

Yup, I can hear it. Lol

[RanRan79]

As much as I love the Holland's work on the last three records, I do wonder sometimes what would have happened if The Supremes got in on the ground floor with some up-and-coming producers at the time, like Nile & Bernard of Chic for example. Or if they teamed up with some Motown people they hadn't worked with yet, like Norman Whitfield or Willie Hutch.

There's also the self-titled album by the Detroit sister trio Three Ounces of Love that came out on Motown the year after The Supremes disbanded. I sometimes listen to that wondering whether that would have been a Supremes album had they continued. It featured many of the same producers and arrangers, like Greg Wright and the Holland Brothers, who were also on the last three Supremes records.

I mentioned Willie Hutch before. I really would have loved it if he had gotten hold of the Supremes. I think Scherrie would've shined on some of his stuff.

I have the Three Ounces Of Love album but the only cut that I kept in rotation is "Middle Of This Feeling". I'll have to pull it out and give it another listen.

[RanRan79]

I agree. While the Hollands were HOT in the 60's, they began to cool in the 70's. Yes, they still had hits, but they were giving them to everyone BUT the Supremes. With new members, a new image and new sound were desperately needed, yet they kept going back to what once worked.

By 1974, it no longer did.

Yeah. I do understand why all the parties were tempted to at least give it a try, but there was nothing that was going to replicate the magic of what occurred with the Supremes and HDH, especially considering that only the Hollands and Mary were involved. Lamont, Diana and Flo, integral ingredients were missing. [[And of course when the Hollands produced Diana the same problem existed.) Sometimes you can't go home again.

So, different time, different people, it should have been paramount that something new be introduced, and yet still very much Supreme.

[Bluebrock]

I really enjoy it. Perhaps not as much as I enjoy MSS, but it's a quality album. For me, the tracks by the Holland Brothers are the strongest, along with "Star Love," which was produced by Greg Wright. "I've Got A Right To Be Loved" reminds me somewhat of "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking" and "In The Middle of the Feeling" has a similar vibe to High Inergy's "You Can't Turn Me Off."

Some Youtube Links:
Star Love - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YovrOYaFIOk
I've Got A Right To Be Loved https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elEvfYu_aY8
In The Middle of the Feeling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBL4448mpcA

Thank you for the info. I recall seeing the album in a record store [[remember them?) back in the day, but i never paid it much attention.
I shall give it a listen. Thank you again telekin.

[sup_fan]

while i agree that the Hollands in the 70s were not as hot as they were in the 60s, that's also as unfair of a comparison as MJC were not as hot as DMF. yes yes yes - i know we all love the original and that was the group that started it all. i get it

but the same with the hollands. their 60s work was unparalleled. but their disco work with the Sups also is highly commendable. it was quite easy for disco to slip into formulaic pabulum. Walking is definitely NOT that. there are clear verses, content and melody. the sensational backing vocals. This is not a song that is simply a hot dance beat. there is some substance here.

HDH tunes were catchy but rarely were they poetic like Smokey's. but the simply lyrics and the melodies stayed with you. i'd say their disco work with the Sups matches that

obviously not every tune is a gold standard but then again, neither were they in the 60s. the "hits" were most definitely head and shoulders above the rest.

[TYK1986]

I love Odyssey and they did so well here in the UK. Around 1977 they released Native New Yorker and I love the song. I can hear the girls tackle that song with Scherrie on lead.

[Bluebrock]

I love Odyssey and they did so well here in the UK. Around 1977 they released Native New Yorker and I love the song. I can hear the girls tackle that song with Scherrie on lead.

I agree. Scherrie would have killed it but Odyssey did a wonderful version which in my opinion surpassed Frankie Valli's version.

[TYK1986]

You know I didn't even know Frankie did a version! [[quick Youtube search) Odyssey version is definitely better but the Frankie one isn't that bad either. Bless Lillian Lopez she was such a great singer.

[Bluebrock]

You know I didn't even know Frankie did a version! [[quick Youtube search) Odyssey version is definitely better but the Frankie one isn't that bad either. Bless Lillian Lopez she was such a great singer.

She was a lovely sweet lady with a very distinctive voice. She was taken from us way too soon.

[dickiemint]

I believe that when the Holland Dozier Holland High Energy album didn't hit as big as it should , that the MSS l.p. was the last chance to get a hit , that's when it was obvious the Supremes were not a priority for Motown.

[Ollie9]

She was a lovely sweet lady with a very distinctive voice. She was taken from us way too soon.

Happy to hear she was a nice lady Blue. Odyssey made some great records in their time. I loved Lillian’s milk and honey voice. It was as you say very distinctive.

[MusicGuy34]

Big thank you for talking about Three Ounces of Love, I hadn't heard of them before and after listening to "In The Middle of a Feeling" on YouTube, I got found a cheap copy of their album on vinyl and really enjoy it!

[sup_fan]

I believe that when the Holland Dozier Holland High Energy album didn't hit as big as it should , that the MSS l.p. was the last chance to get a hit , that's when it was obvious the Supremes were not a priority for Motown.

i think when HE sort of hit [[it was the highest 70s album aside from Right On) and Walking was the first real hit in years. My guess is that rather than continue to issue singles from HE tracks [[like maybe Only You or You're What's Missing) maybe the Hollands said "hey - Walking was hot as hell! let's go back to the studio and build on that momentum. Come up with new songs that are even more powerful"

Let Yourself Go, Wheel and Love I Never Knew are all hard-hitting dance songs. frankly they are more exciting dance tracks than Only You or You Keep Me Moving On. those two HE songs are good but the Hollands definitely amped things up for the MSS dance tracks.

so you have several big dance tracks and then the Hollands took the fascinating, experimental sounds of the HE title track and developed that into several new MSS tracks. Sweet Dream, Come Into.

[BayouMotownMan]

It is highly unlikely that Motown would have continued with MSS because of all the drama and turmoil.

But...

Had Motown allowed another lp I could see Hal Davis taking over and allowing some of Scherrie and Susaye's material. Ideally, if I were in charge however, I would have chosen the up and coming team of Pam Sawyer and Marilyn McLeod to give MSS a shot.

[lakeside]

As much as I love the Holland's work on the last three records, I do wonder sometimes what would have happened if The Supremes got in on the ground floor with some up-and-coming producers at the time, like Nile & Bernard of Chic for example. Or if they teamed up with some Motown people they hadn't worked with yet, like Norman Whitfield or Willie Hutch.

There's also the self-titled album by the Detroit sister trio Three Ounces of Love that came out on Motown the year after The Supremes disbanded. I sometimes listen to that wondering whether that would have been a Supremes album had they continued. It featured many of the same producers and arrangers, like Greg Wright and the Holland Brothers, who were also on the last three Supremes records.

I really like the group. I have a CD [[someone made for me) of their material after leaving Motown. I don't have a track listing or who they recorded with, unfortunately.
Newsy Neighbors and Star Love are on this CD. I actually like this music better than their Motown stuff. I need to bring this back out and give a listen. I think they recorded some things under the group name "Lipstick"?

[sup_fan]

It is highly unlikely that Motown would have continued with MSS because of all the drama and turmoil.

But...

Had Motown allowed another lp I could see Hal Davis taking over and allowing some of Scherrie and Susaye's material. Ideally, if I were in charge however, I would have chosen the up and coming team of Pam Sawyer and Marilyn McLeod to give MSS a shot.

Bayou - what are your thoughts on some of the producers that High Inergy worked with? I'm not super familiar with all of their work but the things i have heard from this time seem like they could have worked for the Supremes. maybe with some minor tweaks

your point about Pam is so spot on too. even back in the Jean years, Pam was working so closely with Frank. When Frank departed the group after Touch, i think the couple of songs that Pam and Gloria Sawyer worked on were among the strongest of the "promises kept" sessions. Oh My Poor Baby and I'll let him Know That I Love Him. Given how much work Pam had done with the group, i would have thought she had earned the opportunity to do an lp with the group. A female producer working with a female group!

[reese]

I really like the group. I have a CD [[someone made for me) of their material after leaving Motown. I don't have a track listing or who they recorded with, unfortunately.
Newsy Neighbors and Star Love is on this CD. I actually like this music better than their Motown stuff. I need to bring this back out and give a listen. I think they recorded some things under the group name "Lipstick"?

They did some tracks with Ian Levine for Motorcity Records. NEWSY NEIGHBOURS was one of them. I don't know if it is the version posted in the photo above but it could be.

[jim aka jtigre99]

The Supremes would never have continued without Mary Wilson. I think Motown felt a little loyalty to her, but were not very supportive. Motown chose Jean, but Mary was instrumental in the selection of each following member. She chose Lynda, Scherrie & Susaye. I don't think a follow up to MSS would have sounded anything like Mary Wilson or Partners. Mary was singing mainly ballads and light uptempo songs while Scherrie handled the disco and r&b while Susaye sang the soulful songs. I don't think Mary wanted them to write songs because it may have put more attention on them as members. I think Storybook Romance and Leaving Me would have worked as Supremes songs as would have I Love A Warm Summer Night, Pick Up The Pieces and Midnight Dancer would have. The tensions within the group and with Pedro as manager would have caused them to call it quits eventually. Their last 2 albums showed amazing potential to go onward but the live performances seemed to not work as well. It seemed each was trying to be noticed and sing lead, which was a stark contrast to the excellent job they did recording.

[floyjoy678]

Yeah I was going to say Mary seemed to have a problem with Scherrie and Susaye wanting to write their own songs so I don't know if the next album would have sounded like Partners. As already said, it may have made her feel insecure because it would have left her with less control.

[sup_fan]

seems like the Pedro/Mary situation reflected the Berry/Diana situation in that they had separated themselves from the other 2 women in the group, in terms of managerial decisions and group strategy. and also it is difficult to know [[since we weren't there in either case) who is deciding what and who is making what decisions. So was it pedro making these calls and decisions or mary? Like the approach and content of the live shows. agreed that on stage the MSS lineup often came across as chaotic and a freeforall. there was also questionable decisions about what material to include

-the dream sequence is something many of us fans enjoy but frankly wasn't maybe the most appropriate concept in order to re-establish the group in a modern context. it's too vegas-y

-the endless 3-part harmony arrangements just gets tiring after a while. too much for your ear to handle

-song choreography and gown selection

obviously MSS could sing. and sing WELL!! the recordings prove that and also there are absolutely moments of brilliance in their shows. IMO it's like they kept reusing the same basic show concepts and just making minor updates rather than sit down and say "alright - what are the top strengths for each woman and how to we be present that?"

[BayouMotownMan]

Bayou - what are your thoughts on some of the producers that High Inergy worked with? I'm not super familiar with all of their work but the things i have heard from this time seem like they could have worked for the Supremes. maybe with some minor tweaks

your point about Pam is so spot on too. even back in the Jean years, Pam was working so closely with Frank. When Frank departed the group after Touch, i think the couple of songs that Pam and Gloria Sawyer worked on were among the strongest of the "promises kept" sessions. Oh My Poor Baby and I'll let him Know That I Love Him. Given how much work Pam had done with the group, i would have thought she had earned the opportunity to do an lp with the group. A female producer working with a female group!

I love High Inergy's body of work. Vernessa and Barbara were gifted singers. After the debut lp Motown seemed to peg them into teeny bop disco stuff. It was their last three lps that gave them serious music. The So Right lp remains a fav of mine. I spoke with Barbara about her music about 20 yrs ago. She said she too wondered why they kept putting her in the studio and issuing records with absolutely no promotion. One producer told her Gordy was doing so that if she became popular on another label he could issue competing product.

[RanRan79]

I have all of High Inergy's 70s albums. They were really a great group. IMO very little of what they cut was bad, although they did have a few cornball recordings. I actually play their albums more than any of the Scherrie years albums, I think. But as great as they were, I don't think much of their material would've fit MSS. HI's stuff seemed at home being sung by young adults. MSS was too mature for a lot of that stuff so IMO it wouldn't have worked.