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Thread: You Do It....

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Was Diana herself responsible for that decision Blue, or was it the company?.
    It was the Company Ollie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albator View Post
    Ray Parker once mentioned that RCA didn't want to push this album. Maybe they cut all others songs, [[supposedly self produced by Ms Ross) to keep the integrity of this new sound. Maybe they were feared another Silk. If those songs have not surfaced yet, we can suspect they were not very good.


    To me this Ross 83 direction was very interesting but maybe her fans were not interested in this kind of "yacht rock" sound for her. In the years to come, Sade will enjoy major success with soft jazz and rather detached performances.
    Interesting. I wonder why a label would be reluctant to promote its own product. A clash of artistic vision perhaps?.
    I’m always keen to learn new info on ross 83 as it happens to be a particular favourite of mine. For me the album was a welcome change of style. Diana’s relaxed vocals really suit the mood of the songs. It’s strange how an air of mystery seems to surround the project with additional recordings being kept under wraps.
    I can’t imagine any of those songs being worse then “Girls”, but who knows.

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    i thought someone on here mentioned that not too long after Diana joined RCA, the leadership changed. A new president or something. and he did not want to focus on the artists that his predecessor brought in or had success with. Like Kenny and Diana

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    It was the Company Ollie.
    Which adds yet more intrigue. What on earth was going down i wonder?.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i thought someone on here mentioned that not too long after Diana joined RCA, the leadership changed. A new president or something. and he did not want to focus on the artists that his predecessor brought in or had success with. Like Kenny and Diana
    Glenwood posted this back in November.

    I’ve told the general story of why Diana’s career at RCA petered out in the past. For some reason I couldn’t find it in the archives here so I’ll quote myself from a different website to give some general context to the goings on at the label circa 85-88...

    ‘“Catching back up on the thread and saw this so I'll fill in the details as I've learned them from Kenny's memoir and a few other industry books. When Bob Buziak replaced Bob Summers as head of RCA around 84-85, he found the label was in a major drought thanks to massive overpressing of titles, poor A&R, rampant overspending by the prior regime, and overpriced contracts. Diana Ross was signed for $20 million for example and would only score 1 platinum & 2 gold sellers out of 6 releases in 7 years. Kenny was guaranteed 4 million per album no matter how well it did. Even the album with Islands In The Stream only did a million. The follow up and the Dolly Xmas projects in 84 did as well and then he went off the cliff until his contract ended in 88. Rogers requested a sitdown with Buziak when his sales and pop chart action went south. There he was told that no matter what product he turned in the label had no real interest in marketing him anymore. Buziak added that if they did, it would make the folks that hired him wonder why they fired Summers. It was rumored this logic also applied to Ross. He was only going to only promote his signings. He also considered Barry Manilow's deal unrecoupable so he cut him from the label after a year and 2 releases to let him run back to Clive Davis. This may also help explain why Hall & Oates and the Pointer Sisters also suddenly stopped having consistent hits and a slew of new signings took off culminating in a mega Soundtrack we'll discuss in a bit that netted RCA $150 million.

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    here's some interesting info on RCA on wikipedia. So maybe the DR deal was a poor business decision for the company - they paid a LOT up front for her to sign and the albums really didn't set the business on fire. and DR wasn't the only financial issue. Plus she wasn't a "new hot pop artist." she was now approaching 40, which is ANCIENT in the US pop world



    During the mid-1980s, RCA Records operated at a deficit, due in part to "overpriced deals" with pop stars including Kenny Rogers and Diana Ross. In 1986, the label bought back $25 million in unsold albums and lost $35 million during the fiscal year 1987. As a partial corrective, a decentralized style of management which allowed RCA Records to function as a free-standing entrepreneurial business was implemented for 1988. Buziak drastically cut the RCA roster from around 40 acts to 11, and began to rebuild it with a focus on developing artists, including artists acquired through marketing and distribution agreements with Beggars Banquet Records and Jive Records, whose roster included Schooly D, Kool Moe Dee, and DJ Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    the euro synthesizer pop/dance sounds that Ross 83 contain were not too dated by early 83. they weren't necessarily shockingly new or groundbreaking but they weren't passe, like a disco beat would have sounded.

    but they never really do anything new or exciting with them either. this album doesn't take the concept of electronica and really do anything new with it. there were New Wave and other influences that could have been explored too.
    The album wasn't dated. I was referring to "That's How You Start Over" specifically, had it been released as a single. It had a similar sound to the other stuff I mentioned, but wasn't in the same league. Easily passed over like some of her other singles at the time.

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    I have no sympathy for RCA where Diana is concerned. Dumb business move to pay her that much money and not invest in maximizing the potential. The industry is large, and yet small at the same time. No one can convince me that TPTB at RCA weren't aware that at Motown, Diana's musical success was not of her own doing. She was not a self contained artist like a Stevie or Marvin. To enter into any agreement with her where she was the head of a project over the label itself was a dumb ass business decision. There were so many other ways in which Diana Ross could stretch her wings as an independent woman in control of her interests, but music should not have been one of them. Either she agree to the label controlling her music output or find another label. And if no takers, either she agree to letting a label control things or do something else with her life. With the exception of a couple major songs and two big albums, nothing she did at RCA justified what they paid her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    The album wasn't dated. I was referring to "That's How You Start Over" specifically, had it been released as a single. It had a similar sound to the other stuff I mentioned, but wasn't in the same league. Easily passed over like some of her other singles at the time.
    oh gotcha i agree with That's How isn't the best single but it is a fun and strong opener to the album.

    here's a question - to my ear, That's How has some hints towards the Pointer Sister's Jump For My Love. Fun hot dance number. That's How is nowhere near as powerful as Jump but maybe if it had been amped up, strong vocals.

    thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    oh gotcha i agree with That's How isn't the best single but it is a fun and strong opener to the album.

    here's a question - to my ear, That's How has some hints towards the Pointer Sister's Jump For My Love. Fun hot dance number. That's How is nowhere near as powerful as Jump but maybe if it had been amped up, strong vocals.

    thoughts?
    Sounds more like "Could I Be Dreaming" to me, but I think if it was heavily remixed, especially the chorus, it may have had hit potential. Yeah, of all the songs, changes made, I think this would've been the breakout hit of the album. But it needed more work. As is, it may have done better than the singles actually released, but still largely ignored in favor of the "better" songs out at the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Which adds yet more intrigue. What on earth was going down i wonder?.
    Some very serious shit was going on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I have no sympathy for RCA where Diana is concerned. Dumb business move to pay her that much money and not invest in maximizing the potential. The industry is large, and yet small at the same time. No one can convince me that TPTB at RCA weren't aware that at Motown, Diana's musical success was not of her own doing. She was not a self contained artist like a Stevie or Marvin. To enter into any agreement with her where she was the head of a project over the label itself was a dumb ass business decision. There were so many other ways in which Diana Ross could stretch her wings as an independent woman in control of her interests, but music should not have been one of them. Either she agree to the label controlling her music output or find another label. And if no takers, either she agree to letting a label control things or do something else with her life. With the exception of a couple major songs and two big albums, nothing she did at RCA justified what they paid her.
    i would guess that the coup for a label to steal DIANA ROSS away from motown was the motivation. everyone knew how closely tied Berry and Diana were, the massive impact they had had on the music industry. and just the overall brand of 'DIANA ROSS' was so huge at this time. many corporate execs could be easily blinded by such an opportunity. Also they didn't know necessarily all of the "behind the scenes" elements since motown did a solid job of keeping those under wraps. Other artists HAD been much more involved in the specifics of their career.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Interesting. I wonder why a label would be reluctant to promote its own product. A clash of artistic vision perhaps?.
    I’m always keen to learn new info on ross 83 as it happens to be a particular favourite of mine. For me the album was a welcome change of style. Diana’s relaxed vocals really suit the mood of the songs. It’s strange how an air of mystery seems to surround the project with additional recordings being kept under wraps.
    I can’t imagine any of those songs being worse then “Girls”, but who knows.
    I know what you mean. But "Girl" was an improvement in term of production skill. When I was young, and unaware about who did what on a record, I was unhappy because of a terrible song, but while listening Silk, I was unhappy with a poorly produced album.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Some very serious shit was going on.
    That sounds very Machiavellian Blue. What exactly was going on?. I’m starting to get worried.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    That sounds very Machiavellian Blue. What exactly was going on?. I’m starting to get worried.
    IKR? Talk about a cliff-hanger and tease!!!

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    I wonder why there was no music videos for "Lets Go Up" & "Upfront" in this time period releasing singles without videos was a death knell to chart success

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    Do you remember mixed tapes? I put this on one for my now husband. It was perfect. I'm not a lyrics person, but even I heard these and thought they were perfect. I know lyrics are important to her too. A perfect song. I still love it. Thanks for bringing back into my memory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    That sounds very Machiavellian Blue. What exactly was going on?. I’m starting to get worried.
    It's all very much in the past now. Let us just say there were major faults on both sides with neither side willing to budge, and that pretty much destroyed the relationship between Ms Ross and rca.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    I wonder why there was no music videos for "Lets Go Up" & "Upfront" in this time period releasing singles without videos was a death knell to chart success
    I think they blew the budget on “Pieces Of Ice”. As regards “Upfront”, i honestly don’t think a promotional video would have made that much a difference to the outcome. It being totally the wrong choice for a DR single. I believe the song was singled out for praise in many USA trade reviews which probably influenced the decision
    With lyrics that speak of love and devotion, “You Do It” would have given them plenty of scope to create a really cute video.

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    I completely support Miss Ross’s deal with RCA, it was the smartest thing she could have done. They gave her financial security and that’s more important than anything. And she may have felt that because of her input on the chic album, That she would be able to helm her own productions. In my opinion, there was only one true commercially viable album at RCA and that was swept away. I’m guessing that a lot of people bought the first album, played it once or twice and never touched it again. It was the follow up to a very exciting album and had the biggest song of her career on it plus two middling top 10 singles, still, considering the situation, It was a letdown - even with its platinum status, it was positioned to do much better if it was a stronger album. At the time, everyone I knew thought that silk electric and Ross 83 were major disappointments. Swept Away did well on the strength of its own strength - overcoming the severe handicap of following two or, arguably, three disappointing releases. Eaten had some possibilities, and the last album was just a disaster with nothing even having a glimmer of hope Of getting adds.

    At the time, I felt the only viable single on ross 83 was up front because it sounded what was on the radio at the time. My personal favorite, that’s how you start over, might have it because occasionally a quality track like that, without the usual top 40 format sound, breaks through and I think this one had a decent chance of that because of its multiformat possibilities. However, I would not have bet money on it becoming a hit single.
    at the time, I thought you do it was a snore, people that I knew that bought the album usually use that song as an example of why they hated it so much. In retrospect, let’s say in the last 10 years, I have begun to think that it might have had a chance, but only a chance. There’s no sure fire hit on this album for sure, and I still think the wisest thing to do would have been to release up front first - After re-recording it in a slightly lower key because she’s too screechy at the end and I can’t imagine too many people hearing that on the radio and thinking I wanna listen to diana ross straining to those high notes. Pieces of ice and let’s go up both had major major major exposure and didn’t get any interest whatsoever. I don’t think anything, including payola, could’ve put let’s go up even close to the top 50. If it were up to me, and it never is, I probably would have done up front, that’s how you start over And consulted the psychic friends network for guidance for the third single release while hoping like hell the next album would actually work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    I completely support Miss Ross’s deal with RCA, it was the smartest thing she could have done. They gave her financial security and that’s more important than anything. And she may have felt that because of her input on the chic album, That she would be able to helm her own productions. In my opinion, there was only one true commercially viable album at RCA and that was swept away. I’m guessing that a lot of people bought the first album, played it once or twice and never touched it again. It was the follow up to a very exciting album and had the biggest song of her career on it plus two middling top 10 singles, still, considering the situation, It was a letdown - even with its platinum status, it was positioned to do much better if it was a stronger album. At the time, everyone I knew thought that silk electric and Ross 83 were major disappointments. Swept Away did well on the strength of its own strength - overcoming the severe handicap of following two or, arguably, three disappointing releases. Eaten had some possibilities, and the last album was just a disaster with nothing even having a glimmer of hope Of getting adds.

    At the time, I felt the only viable single on ross 83 was up front because it sounded what was on the radio at the time. My personal favorite, that’s how you start over, might have it because occasionally a quality track like that, without the usual top 40 format sound, breaks through and I think this one had a decent chance of that because of its multiformat possibilities. However, I would not have bet money on it becoming a hit single.
    at the time, I thought you do it was a snore, people that I knew that bought the album usually use that song as an example of why they hated it so much. In retrospect, let’s say in the last 10 years, I have begun to think that it might have had a chance, but only a chance. There’s no sure fire hit on this album for sure, and I still think the wisest thing to do would have been to release up front first - After re-recording it in a slightly lower key because she’s too screechy at the end and I can’t imagine too many people hearing that on the radio and thinking I wanna listen to diana ross straining to those high notes. Pieces of ice and let’s go up both had major major major exposure and didn’t get any interest whatsoever. I don’t think anything, including payola, could’ve put let’s go up even close to the top 50. If it were up to me, and it never is, I probably would have done up front, that’s how you start over And consulted the psychic friends network for guidance for the third single release while hoping like hell the next album would actually work.
    Good post lol...In my own personal experience of the album, “Up Front” is usually named as the culprit by those for whom ross 83 does little for.
    Similar to you with “You Do It”, i have come to appreciate the song far more with the passing of the years.
    ross 83 was up against it from the off. Following to dud albums meant record buyers were probably a lot less tolerant in accepting a change in musical direction from Diana as might have previously been.


    ,

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    I completely support Miss Ross’s deal with RCA, it was the smartest thing she could have done. They gave her financial security and that’s more important than anything. And she may have felt that because of her input on the chic album, That she would be able to helm her own productions. In my opinion, there was only one true commercially viable album at RCA and that was swept away. I’m guessing that a lot of people bought the first album, played it once or twice and never touched it again. It was the follow up to a very exciting album and had the biggest song of her career on it plus two middling top 10 singles, still, considering the situation, It was a letdown - even with its platinum status, it was positioned to do much better if it was a stronger album. At the time, everyone I knew thought that silk electric and Ross 83 were major disappointments. Swept Away did well on the strength of its own strength - overcoming the severe handicap of following two or, arguably, three disappointing releases. Eaten had some possibilities, and the last album was just a disaster with nothing even having a glimmer of hope Of getting adds.

    At the time, I felt the only viable single on ross 83 was up front because it sounded what was on the radio at the time. My personal favorite, that’s how you start over, might have it because occasionally a quality track like that, without the usual top 40 format sound, breaks through and I think this one had a decent chance of that because of its multiformat possibilities. However, I would not have bet money on it becoming a hit single.
    at the time, I thought you do it was a snore, people that I knew that bought the album usually use that song as an example of why they hated it so much. In retrospect, let’s say in the last 10 years, I have begun to think that it might have had a chance, but only a chance. There’s no sure fire hit on this album for sure, and I still think the wisest thing to do would have been to release up front first - After re-recording it in a slightly lower key because she’s too screechy at the end and I can’t imagine too many people hearing that on the radio and thinking I wanna listen to diana ross straining to those high notes. Pieces of ice and let’s go up both had major major major exposure and didn’t get any interest whatsoever. I don’t think anything, including payola, could’ve put let’s go up even close to the top 50. If it were up to me, and it never is, I probably would have done up front, that’s how you start over And consulted the psychic friends network for guidance for the third single release while hoping like hell the next album would actually work.
    Oh yeah, the deal was great for Ross. She'd have been a fool not to accept that kind of money, especially considering how much money she actually had working for Motown. I do wonder if she grew a little "lazy" [[yup, I said it again) because she had managed herself such a windfall. Just so many possibilities for her continued legacy and it all kind of...stalls.

    I agree about Swept Away. The debut RCA album was a success on the strength of her coming off some of her biggest stuff ever, along with the curiosity about her next phase at RCA, and the new image on the cover of the album. Swept Away had three hits on it, one a big hit, another a major hit. She looked great on the cover and there was good song choice for most of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Oh yeah, the deal was great for Ross. She'd have been a fool not to accept that kind of money, especially considering how much money she actually had working for Motown. I do wonder if she grew a little "lazy" [[yup, I said it again) because she had managed herself such a windfall. Just so many possibilities for her continued legacy and it all kind of...stalls.

    I agree about Swept Away. The debut RCA album was a success on the strength of her coming off some of her biggest stuff ever, along with the curiosity about her next phase at RCA, and the new image on the cover of the album. Swept Away had three hits on it, one a big hit, another a major hit. She looked great on the cover and there was good song choice for most of it.
    I much prefer ross 83 to Swept Away. “Rescue Me and “We Are The Children” being the two prime reasons. The only really memorable songs imo are “Missing You”, “Swept Away” and “Telephone”. “All Of You” is ok, but sounds like it should be on another album.
    four out of ten from me.
    Last edited by Ollie9; 03-31-2021 at 12:37 PM.

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    Swept Away is very uneven IMO. Some very commercial songs - Swept, all of you, Touch by touch, missing you. then some crap - children, telephone. then some whispy singing on Forever Young, as if it was a hint or prelude to the terrible breathy whimpy whispy singing she would do on EA. then an oddball with Crazy.

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    I'm thinking , what albums aren't uneven?? Very few would I consider the total package. Even Marvin Gaye's WHATS GOING ON is mostly filler [[imo) and Stevie's "SONGS IN THE KEY..." could've been whittled jnto a single LP just fine [[and you can keep that throwaway bonus EP!)

    I always understood that an album was a bunch of padded material wrapped around a spotlight piece or two that would be the singles. If you got three decent songs on an album of eight ....that was really something.

    One trick was to wait for the artists every third of fourth release when the primetime stuff got reoffered as a greatest hits package. That included The Jackson Five and Diana Ross.


    [rereading your post , I'm addressing uneven from a different angle , Sup)
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 03-31-2021 at 01:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Good post lol...In my own personal experience of the album, “Up Front” is usually named as the culprit by those for whom ross 83 does little for.
    Similar to you with “You Do It”, i have come to appreciate the song far more with the passing of the years.
    ross 83 was up against it from the off. Following to dud albums meant record buyers were probably a lot less tolerant in accepting a change in musical direction from Diana as might have previously been.





    I believe with all my heart and soul that the general public doesn’t give a shit about musical directions of its artists. She went from surrender, A modestly successful album, to a Billie Holiday tribute that went to number one, To a smash album filled with ballads with forays into an Uber successful disco album and then the chic album, these were all new musical directions. For the record buying public at large buys what it likes to hear and I don’t think they care who’s doing it as long as it pushes that button in their head that says I love that! Ross 83, I honestly didn’t know one person, who could stand playing it at that all back in the day. Decades later, music tastes have changed a great deal and this doesn’t sound so bland and odd like it did back in the day. Now people like it, but everyone pretty much hated it back then and I actually think pieces of ice and let’s go up on Central Park hurt sales more than helped it. Upfront, hardly a stellar track, it did sound modern and fresh in a pop radio kind of way and I remember I think it was people magazine review of the album stating that they couldn’t understand why upfront that was not the first single because it was the only song that was radio friendly. I do think it would’ve been played, if radio stations did not have egg on their face for adding pieces of ice before it.
    ,
    rats I answered in the wrong box again. Please see above.

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    I certainly didn’t hate Ross back then, it was my second Diana album and made me a fan forever after the disapointing experience of listening Silk.
    Ross is too short but so were the Boss and diana.

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    To state everybody hated it back then is a very sweeping statement that is simply not true. ross 83 was a relief to me following two dismal albums. I myself remember playing it for friends who liked a few of the songs. It also received some very positive reviews from the music press.
    Most of Diana’s Motown albums were soulful efforts be they pop/soul, jazz, funk or disco. I don’t think the diversity in musical direction was as obvious as when compared to her rca albums.
    Musical identity and direction go hand in hand with artistic vision. Joe public for the most part likes to know what it’s getting. Stray to far and to often from the musical genre that made you famous and you risk alienating your fan base forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    I'm thinking , what albums aren't uneven?? Very few would I consider the total package. Even Marvin Gaye's WHATS GOING ON is mostly filler [[imo) and Stevie's "SONGS IN THE KEY..." could've been whittled jnto a single LP just fine [[and you can keep that throwaway bonus EP!)

    I always understood that an album was a bunch of padded material wrapped around a spotlight piece or two that would be the singles. If you got three decent songs on an album of eight ....that was really something.

    One trick was to wait for the artists every third of fourth release when the primetime stuff got reoffered as a greatest hits package. That included The Jackson Five and Diana Ross.


    [rereading your post , I'm addressing uneven from a different angle , Sup)
    Uneven can mean a couple of things

    1. too many producers and styles - like Sup 75 or Swept away,
    2. too many weak songs - like Let the sunshine in, everything is everything, Country western & pop
    3. both weak songs and too many cooks in the kitchen - Red Hot Rhythm and Blues, Ross 78
    4. some moments that are strong but also a significant amount of lesser tracks - Ross 83, Why Do fools, Reflections

    of course these are just my opinions on the albums

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    I like "Up Front"...i'll get my coat...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Uneven can mean a couple of things

    4. some moments that are strong but also a significant amount of lesser tracks - Ross 83, Why Do fools, Reflections

    Significant amount of lesser tracks? Doesn’t Ross83 only have 8 songs lol. In your estimation, how many “lesser” tracks are there? Of course you’re opinion is valid. Not discounting your feelings. I think it’s a solid album, and don’t have a problem with “Girls”, or “Upfront”. It was 1983 after all. I don’t listen to an album to see which songs are worthy of single release. I just listen for personal enjoyment. Of course some may be better than others. But this is a solid album.

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    I was worried about what Diana would release after Silk Electric, which I thought was a disaster. The production on that recording was horrendous. I still think someone should take the original tapes and remix the entire thing into something you might be able to listen to. The only viable song on that, for me, was Love Lies. When Ross '83 was released, I bought it but not with any confidence - I mean the cover was like Silk Electric Redux. To my surprise, I really enjoyed it. I played it quite a lot, and still do. I prefer side one over side two - the Steely Dan stuff seemed better produced to me. One of my favorites was That's How You Start Over so I'm surprised at the number of people who aren't thrilled with it. Girls, to me, was another Work That Body - a track that I didn't hate but really didn't want to hear. I liked Let's Go Up and found it interesting that Helen Reddy also recorded that on her Imagination album in 1983. Didn't do much for her either.

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    Not to derail, but am I the only one here who doesn’t hate Silk Electric? Perhaps we can discuss another time, another thread.

  34. #84
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    Ross had several out takes...
    Full moon
    Sleep with me tonight
    Maybe
    Fight for it
    I think you do it and that's how you start over are the best two tracks.
    Upfront sounds like a Supremes reject from 1969.
    For me ...in my playlist I combined swept away n Ross best tracks

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by khansperac View Post
    Significant amount of lesser tracks? Doesn’t Ross83 only have 8 songs lol. In your estimation, how many “lesser” tracks are there? Of course you’re opinion is valid. Not discounting your feelings. I think it’s a solid album, and don’t have a problem with “Girls”, or “Upfront”. It was 1983 after all. I don’t listen to an album to see which songs are worthy of single release. I just listen for personal enjoyment. Of course some may be better than others. But this is a solid album.
    That's how you start over - excellent backing track but frankly lazy and blah vocals from diana

    pieces of ice - very atmospheric but WTF are the lyrics? lol

    girls - i actually like this song but i do certainly recognize it's not a gem lol

    Up Front - meh. the harder rock sound isn't my fav for diana.

    You do it - catchy and fun but never really gets going. i appreciate that it's a mellow tune but i feel the song lacks any climax.

    Love will make it right - again catchy, quite atmospheric. fits the mood of the lp nicely. but it too lacks and peaks.

    love or loneliness - like you do it and that's how, this song never really peaks. and Diana's vocals are nice but not exciting

    let's go up - quite a strong track and diana does seem to deliver here

    If i had to change something i'd redo That's How into a bigger banging song. some really power. then You Do it and Love/Loneliness and Love will make it right can't all be so low key. IMO Love Will Make it is great low key. very cool and distant and icy. So give some pep to the other two

  36. #86
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    Swept away
    That's how you start over
    Love will make it right
    You do it
    Pieces of ice
    Missing you
    Let's go up
    Love or loniless
    It's your move
    All of you

  37. #87
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    again i think Ross 83 is a solid album. one of her more cohesive ones. I just think the heat needed to be turned up. at least in a couple spots. i like the cool, icy feel of the 80s synthesizer and realize a big "The Boss" gospelish approach isn't appropriate here. but it needed a bit more

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albator View Post
    I certainly didn’t hate Ross back then, it was my second Diana album and made me a fan forever after the disapointing experience of listening Silk.
    Ross is too short but so were the Boss and diana.

    I used to wide of a generality: certainly not everyone hated it, just everyone I knew hated it. I’m glad you gave Miss Ross another chance after not liking the first album that you got of hers. My point isn’t if one album is good or bad because No one even knows quite good or bad it is, my point is that Ross’ albums were going in a downward spiral sales wise after the Chic LP and when swept away came out, they reversed the trend. Part of this is due to word of mouth on the album and people hearing the album and going out and buying their own copy. This happened with the Diana album - it went charging up the charts with no single at all because word of mouth on the album is so hot. Swept away was just so much more commercial for that point in time, it happens to be my favorite of the RCA albums.

    look at Supremes Agogo, and HDH:HDH had two number one singles on it, but it sold nowhere near as well and even though it was released months after a gogo, a gogo was still on the charts for months after HDH dropped off. I don’t believe this is because of the album cover, promotion or the alignment of the stars as much as I do people heard cuts at parties or were told to listen to something by friends and they liked it and bought their own copy. Word of mouth on a current act is a big help to album sales. My experience was that word of month on Silk, Ross 83 and Eaten wasn’t good and they slipped. Red hot rhythm and blues was so horrible, that I really didn’t speak about it to anybody except my very very very closest friends, but I’m guessing the same thing occurred.

  39. #89
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    I enjoyed Ross 83 when it was released. I had a few favorites but never get an urge to play any of them now. About once a year I play each of her albums. That seems to satisfy me for her albums from the 80s and 90s. I guess I'm stuck in the 60s and 70s.

    Maybe Ross 83 didn't attract buyers because that cover is damn scary!

  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    Ross had several out takes...
    Full moon
    Sleep with me tonight
    Maybe
    Fight for it
    I think you do it and that's how you start over are the best two tracks.
    Upfront sounds like a Supremes reject from 1969.
    For me ...in my playlist I combined swept away n Ross best tracks
    I wonder why she has blocked unreleased rca masters..

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by khansperac View Post
    Not to derail, but am I the only one here who doesn’t hate Silk Electric? Perhaps we can discuss another time, another thread.
    I happen to really like the “ Silk Electric” album. I wore it out when it was first released.

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    I used to wide of a generality: certainly not everyone hated it, just everyone I knew hated it. I’m glad you gave Miss Ross another chance after not liking the first album that you got of hers. My point isn’t if one album is good or bad because No one even knows quite good or bad it is, my point is that Ross’ albums were going in a downward spiral sales wise after the Chic LP and when swept away came out, they reversed the trend. Part of this is due to word of mouth on the album and people hearing the album and going out and buying their own copy. This happened with the Diana album - it went charging up the charts with no single at all because word of mouth on the album is so hot. Swept away was just so much more commercial for that point in time, it happens to be my favorite of the RCA albums.

    look at Supremes Agogo, and HDH:HDH had two number one singles on it, but it sold nowhere near as well and even though it was released months after a gogo, a gogo was still on the charts for months after HDH dropped off. I don’t believe this is because of the album cover, promotion or the alignment of the stars as much as I do people heard cuts at parties or were told to listen to something by friends and they liked it and bought their own copy. Word of mouth on a current act is a big help to album sales. My experience was that word of month on Silk, Ross 83 and Eaten wasn’t good and they slipped. Red hot rhythm and blues was so horrible, that I really didn’t speak about it to anybody except my very very very closest friends, but I’m guessing the same thing occurred.
    At that time, I was 15 years old and I didn't even know it who she was, I didn't know it was her singing "Upside Down". I had seen "muscles" on TV and heard it quite often on the radio, and I was crazy for the song and this beautiful singer. This was much more important to me than the music in fact. "Silk" disappointment was because, with that Warhol cover and "muscles" you don't expect MOR songs and weak voice.
    I was over with her, but during next summer, I saw newspaper about her CP concerts and than, the "Pieces of ice" clip and that stunning new cover.
    This time, it was the sound I expected from her and I was very satisfied with the album.
    To me, It has aged very well, and it's cohesive unlike "Swept".


    This review sums it all : https://dianarossproject.wordpress.c.../13/ross-1983/

  43. #93
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    My teacher in high school used the ross83 lp cover in a class about photography and art direction he loved that artwork

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    Swept away
    That's how you start over
    Love will make it right
    You do it
    Pieces of ice
    Missing you
    Let's go up
    Love or loniless
    It's your move
    All of you
    That is an extremely good wish list album david.
    Last edited by Ollie9; 04-01-2021 at 03:07 AM.

  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    I wonder why she has blocked unreleased rca masters..
    To prove she can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    My teacher in high school used the ross83 lp cover in a class about photography and art direction he loved that artwork
    There are some beautiful pics of Diana from that photo shoot. Not sure they used the best one for the cover though. My fave is the one where she is sitting with her knees drawn up.

  47. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    To prove she can.
    Ha ha too funny Ollie 🤪

  48. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    There are some beautiful pics of Diana from that photo shoot. Not sure they used the best one for the cover though. My fave is the one where she is sitting with her knees drawn up.
    The camera loves her I love rupaul's quote that diana lp covers where an event in themselves what would she look like next ?..I remember getting hooked on her in 1986 and going to virgin megastore and seeing all the back catalog they stocked and falling in love.. especially with 25th anniversary cover...not long after I got all the great hits lp not only was I entranced with the music I would open the gatefold sleeve and stare at the tiny lp pictures and save my pocket money to hunt them down in second hand stores on weekends..such happy memories 😁

  49. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by khansperac View Post
    Not to derail, but am I the only one here who doesn’t hate Silk Electric? Perhaps we can discuss another time, another thread.
    It does have it's admirers. Florence has often taken me to task for being less than kind about it! Vgalindo has also expressed his approval of it too.
    It is in my bottom 5 Ms Ross albums, but it is good that some people appreciated it more than i ever could.

  50. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    To prove she can.
    Ha ha. They are actually not that bad Ollie. Certainly better than Girls, Upfront and much of Fools and Silk Electric.
    Between you, me and the gatepost it had something to do with paying royalties[[!) to certain songwriters and producers, but you did not hear that from me. Nudge nudge. Wink wink.

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