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  1. #1

    What if Mary had recorded " holiday" ?

    In early 1983 dj john jellybean benitz had a demo of a song called holiday he offered it to Mary to record she declined telling him it wasn't up to much it was ultimately recorded by a then pretty unknown club artist called madonna...it would become her first top 20 u.s. hit and she would make her american tv debut singing the track on american bandstand ,....in the u.k the songs hit was staggering charting in the top 10 on three separate occasions '84 then again in '85 and again in '91...benitz would tease Mary everytime he saw her after madonna got it and she would laugh and say " I know I know "..would it have worked for Mary ? And launched solo chart success for her ? Was her voice right for the track ?...

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    In early 1983 dj john jellybean benitz had a demo of a song called holiday he offered it to Mary to record she declined telling him it wasn't up to much it was ultimately recorded by a then pretty unknown club artist called madonna...it would become her first top 20 u.s. hit and she would make her american tv debut singing the track on american bandstand ,....in the u.k the songs hit was staggering charting in the top 10 on three separate occasions '84 then again in '85 and again in '91...benitz would tease Mary everytime he saw her after madonna got it and she would laugh and say " I know I know "..would it have worked for Mary ? And launched solo chart success for her ? Was her voice right for the track ?...
    I think it might have gone on to become a hit, but not nearly the success it was for Madonna. Probably a bigger club hit as opposed to pop.
    Madonna was young and relatively new to the scene. Her youthful, high pitched voice lent the song the energy it needed. It’s nice that Mary could laugh about it..
    I wish it could have been the lead single on Ross 83. It would have gone down a storm in Central Park. [[No pun intended).

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I think it might have gone on to become a hit, but not nearly the success it was for Madonna. Probably a bigger club hit as opposed to pop.
    Madonna was young and relatively new to the scene. Her youthful, high pitched voice lent the song the energy it needed. It’s nice that Mary could laugh about it..
    I wish it could have been the lead single on Ross 83. It would have gone down a storm in Central Park. [[No pun intended).
    It would have suited Diana's voice much better than Mary's, but i am glad it was given to Madonna.
    Both Diana and Mary were too old at this point to be performing a youthful ditty such as this. I don't believe it would have been a hit for either lady.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    It would have suited Diana's voice much better than Mary's, but i am glad it was given to Madonna.
    Both Diana and Mary were too old at this point to be performing a youthful ditty such as this. I don't believe it would have been a hit for either lady.
    I agree 100%. I´m sure it would have fitted Diana´s voice better than Mary´s but it was perfect for Madonna.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    It would have suited Diana's voice much better than Mary's, but i am glad it was given to Madonna.
    Both Diana and Mary were too old at this point to be performing a youthful ditty such as this. I don't believe it would have been a hit for either lady.
    I think with Nile Rodgers at the helm it could have worked for Diana.. Beefed up bass line and guitar licks a plenty would have lent it a more funky, sophisticated feel.
    I can imagine Diana conducting a huge singalong with the Central Park crowd. Everybody together “HOLIDAY”.
    It certainly would have proved a bigger crowd pleaser then “Pieces Of Ice”.

  6. #6
    I clearly remember the first time I heard Madonna's Holiday in 1983. I didn't like it. More than repetitive and boring, it was irritating. I've since learned to like it and its importance to her career.

    I don't know if Mary could have had a big hit with Holiday. Her voice is just not that distinctive or special. Neither is Madonna's, but her youthfulness helped.

    The other song I initially found too repetitive, boring and irritating was Donna Summer's I Feel Love. I soon learned to love it! It's a landmark recording for Donna and dance music history.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I think with Nile Rodgers at the helm it could have worked for Diana.. Beefed up bass line and guitar licks a plenty would have lent it a more funky, sophisticated feel.
    I can imagine Diana conducting a huge singalong with the Central Park crowd. Everybody together “HOLIDAY”.
    It certainly would have proved a bigger crowd pleaser then “Pieces Of Ice”.
    Interesting points! I agree, Ollie.

  8. #8
    this would have been a disaster for Mary. her voice is too smokey and thick for such a lightweight pop confection

    Diana's voice was more appropriate for the tune but by 83 or so it would be too teeny bopper for her.

  9. #9
    I
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post

    Diana's voice was more appropriate for the tune but by 83 or so it would be too teeny bopper for her.
    What even more then say “Girls”.

  10. #10
    The right singer got the right song, the rest is history. Mary did have a turntable hit in the UK with 'Don't Get Mad Get Even' which was huge in the clubs. I bought it but not many did. It was an Ian Levine production which held it back. With a different producer and musicians she would have had a hit.

  11. #11
    The 80's were classic for crappy music as well!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    In early 1983 dj john jellybean benitz had a demo of a song called holiday he offered it to Mary to record she declined telling him it wasn't up to much it was ultimately recorded by a then pretty unknown club artist called madonna...it would become her first top 20 u.s. hit and she would make her american tv debut singing the track on american bandstand ,....in the u.k the songs hit was staggering charting in the top 10 on three separate occasions '84 then again in '85 and again in '91...benitz would tease Mary everytime he saw her after madonna got it and she would laugh and say " I know I know "..would it have worked for Mary ? And launched solo chart success for her ? Was her voice right for the track ?...
    Probably not. I like Mary Wilson's voice but she didn't have the x-factor/charisma/magnetism that Madonna or Diana had in their vocal performances. Her recordings are a bit boring because they lack that fire or distinctive quality. She always sounds like she is going through the motions. I don't think it would even have charted on the Hot 100. Maybe a minor club hit in U.S. and a minor hit in some european countries.

    Madonna was an average singer at best, but she had such a presence, not just visually, but on record too. And she always found the right direction, production-wise. Her 80's records are so classic, so joyful, so timeless. It's a bit like The Supremes in the 60's. Pop perfection.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro2015 View Post
    Probably not. I like Mary Wilson's voice but she didn't have the x-factor/charisma/magnetism that Madonna or Diana had in their vocal performances. Her recordings are a bit boring because they lack that fire or distinctive quality. She always sounds like she is going through the motions. I don't think it would even have charted on the Hot 100. Maybe a minor club hit in U.S. and a minor hit in some european countries.

    Madonna was an average singer at best, but she had such a presence, not just visually, but on record too. And she always found the right direction, production-wise. Her 80's records are so classic, so joyful, so timeless. It's a bit like The Supremes in the 60's. Pop perfection.
    I tend to agree with you. Madonna was more charismatic and more mtv friendly than Mary. Holiday was perfect for her. Less so for Mary.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I

    What even more then say “Girls”.
    That was one dire song. It spoils an otherwise very listenable album.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro2015 View Post
    Probably not. I like Mary Wilson's voice but she didn't have the x-factor/charisma/magnetism that Madonna or Diana had in their vocal performances. Her recordings are a bit boring because they lack that fire or distinctive quality. She always sounds like she is going through the motions. I don't think it would even have charted on the Hot 100. Maybe a minor club hit in U.S. and a minor hit in some european countries.

    Madonna was an average singer at best, but she had such a presence, not just visually, but on record too. And she always found the right direction, production-wise. Her 80's records are so classic, so joyful, so timeless. It's a bit like The Supremes in the 60's. Pop perfection.
    I agree. My thoughts and opinion exactly.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I think with Nile Rodgers at the helm it could have worked for Diana.. Beefed up bass line and guitar licks a plenty would have lent it a more funky, sophisticated feel.
    I can imagine Diana conducting a huge singalong with the Central Park crowd. Everybody together “HOLIDAY”.
    It certainly would have proved a bigger crowd pleaser then “Pieces Of Ice”.
    Not sure i agree Ollie. The standard of his production on Workin Overtime was shockingly bad. Without Bernard he just wrote tunes that were either bang average and /or were in the wrong key for Diana.
    I know he was under the influence during the sessions, but he had seemingly forgotten how to write or choose a song sympathetic to Diana's vocal strengths.
    I am not sure Diana would have accepted the song at that stage of her career. She was already too old for such fodder, as indeed she was for Girls. That ill thought out ditty was bad enough.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Not sure i agree Ollie. The standard of his production on Workin Overtime was shockingly bad. Without Bernard he just wrote tunes that were either bang average and /or were in the wrong key for Diana.
    I know he was under the influence during the sessions, but he had seemingly forgotten how to write or choose a song sympathetic to Diana's vocal strengths.
    I am not sure Diana would have accepted the song at that stage of her career. She was already too old for such fodder, as indeed she was for Girls. That ill thought out ditty was bad enough.
    lolol well you know i sort of like Girls. for the period and times, i think it works. it's superficial and more style than substance.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    lolol well you know i sort of like Girls. for the period and times, i think it works. it's superficial and more style than substance.
    Style is not a word that immediately springs to mind when assessing “Girls”.
    Another word that funnily enough also starts with the letter S seems more appropriate.
    IMO of course.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Style is not a word that immediately springs to mind when assessing “Girls”.
    Another word that funnily enough also starts with the letter S seems more appropriate.
    IMO of course.
    lolol see to me, Girls sounds very of the time. very 82/83. it's just a pop confection. not intended to be a major groundbreaking tune for the ages.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    That was one dire song. It spoils an otherwise very listenable album.
    I agree with you. The 1983 album is one of my favorite ones.

    To be fair, songs like "Love Will Make It Right", "Let's Go Up", "You Do It" and "Love Or Loneliness" are top quality recordings. They are among Diana's best 80's songs.

    I also love "Pieces Of Ice". It is so atmospheric, artsy and contemporary for 1983. Not sure if it is lead single material, probably not...and I know the lyrics are a bit off. But I do love the song!!!!


    "Upfront", I like the production, but I'm not crazy about the song. But I don't dislike either.

    "That's How You Start Over" is a bit bland, like most of her previous RCA stuff, but I don't dislike it. It could have been better produced.

    "Girls" is the only really weak song on the record.

    As for "Holiday"... unfortunately, it would not fit the album!!!! I can see it on 1980's diana - it had "Have Fun [[Again)" - but not really in 1983's Ross. It doesn't go with the overall feel of the record.

    But something interesting here is the analogy between Madonna and Diana's suitability for the same song. I always thought Madonna was some kind of Ross-reincarnation for radio. And I know Madonna was very inspired by Diana. Diana's voice is much better, for sure, and Miss Ross is a much better vocalist, but both have a very similar presence in pop/soul/dance records, perfectly suited for radio.
    Last edited by Nitro2015; 03-01-2021 at 03:05 PM.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Style is not a word that immediately springs to mind when assessing “Girls”.
    Another word that funnily enough also starts with the letter S seems more appropriate.
    IMO of course.
    Ha ha. I'm with you all the way on this one Ollie!

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro2015 View Post
    I agree with you. The 1983 album is one of my favorite ones.

    To be fair, songs like "Love Will Make It Right", "Let's Go Up", "You Do It" and "Love Or Loneliness" are top quality recordings. They are among Diana's best 80's songs.

    I also love "Pieces Of Ice". It is so atmospheric, artsy and contemporary for 1983. Not sure if it is lead single material, probably not...and I know the lyrics are a bit off. But I do love the song!!!!


    "Upfront", I like the production, but I'm not crazy about the song. But I don't dislike either.

    "That's How You Start Over" is a bit bland, like most of her previous RCA stuff, but I don't dislike it. It could have been better produced.

    "Girls" is the only really weak song on the record.

    As for "Holiday"... unfortunately, it would not fit the album!!!! I can see it on 1980's diana - it had "Have Fun [[Again)" - but not really in 1983's Ross. It doesn't go with the overall feel of the record.

    But something interesting here is the analogy between Madonna and Diana's suitability for the same song. I always thought Madonna was some kind of Ross-reincarnation for radio. And I know Madonna was very inspired by Diana. Diana's voice is much better, for sure, and Miss Ross is a much better vocalist, but both have a very similar presence in pop/soul/dance records, perfectly suited for radio.
    good assessment of the Ross 83 tracks.

    overall i think the album is good. all of the songs are contemporary and fortunately she'd finally gotten over those nostalgia songs like So Close and Fools

    my biggest complaint of the album were the lukewarm vocals. it's like she's singing at 80% rather than 100%. the opening [[That's How You Start Over) is an energetic track that was perfect for track 1. But Diana doesn't really come alive until the fade when she finally starts ad libbing and giving it some oomph.

    Had she done that on some of the more up beat songs, then her more mellow reading of songs like Love Will Make It Right provides a lovely contrast. but without the peaks on the higher energy songs, it makes the whole album just never really go to that next level

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I think with Nile Rodgers at the helm it could have worked for Diana.. Beefed up bass line and guitar licks a plenty would have lent it a more funky, sophisticated feel.
    I can imagine Diana conducting a huge singalong with the Central Park crowd. Everybody together “HOLIDAY”.
    It certainly would have proved a bigger crowd pleaser then “Pieces Of Ice”.
    That's a great take Ollie I can visualize that

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro2015 View Post
    Madonna was an average singer at best, but she had such a presence, not just visually, but on record too. And she always found the right direction, production-wise. Her 80's records are so classic, so joyful, so timeless. It's a bit like The Supremes in the 60's. Pop perfection.
    "Holiday" is 80s pop perfection. It is all Madonna -- her charm, her edge, her exuberance, her swagger. Don't think it could have been a hit for anyone else.

  25. #25
    Diana arrived unannounced at the studio where nile and madonna were recording like a virgin album with a bottle of champagne to toast madonna's new success telling her that her daughters loved her music.....soon after madonna debuted two new tracks at the Paradise garage nightclub Diana turned up to support apparently all eyes were on diana and not madonna's performance !

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    Diana arrived unannounced at the studio where nile and madonna were recording like a virgin album with a bottle of champagne to toast madonna's new success telling her that her daughters loved her music.....soon after madonna debuted two new tracks at the Paradise garage nightclub Diana turned up to support apparently all eyes were on diana and not madonna's performance !
    Interesting snippet nomis. In a UK interview Diana mentioned how much she disliked Madonna. If my memory serves me correct, it was something to do with Madonna refusing to give her daughters an autograph.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Interesting snippet nomis. In a UK interview Diana mentioned how much she disliked Madonna. If my memory serves me correct, it was something to do with Madonna refusing to give her daughters an autograph.
    I am not going to go into this too deeply, but Madonna seemingly only did what Ms Ross has done on more than one occasion. I am fully aware of what went on here and Madonna's disgraceful behaviour [[of which this was just the tip of the iceberg) was unforgivable. Ms Ross was livid and let Madonna know exactly what she thought of her behaviour.
    Suffice to say Ms Ross has blanked Madonna on the handful of occasions they have come face to face since then, including one very uncomfortable situation that i witnessed and wished i hadn't in London in the 90's.
    These Diva's will be Diva's......

  28. #28
    There's nothing extraordinary about "Holiday". If not for the string of extraordinary singles released in it's wake, Madonna could've very well have been a one hit wonder. Did her voice add anything to "Holiday"? Sure. I think she gives off a fun vibe, and the song is a fun song. But this wasn't a Jennifer Holiday tune. The lyrics are so simple, most of what makes the song worth listening to is the track, so IMO only someone doing the most horrible of vocals could've failed to turn "Holiday" into a hit.

    That being said, there's also no reason to believe that Mary Wilson's "Holiday" would've been exactly like Madonna's. Producers know their singers. Tweaks to tracks get made to suit the singer. Or maybe Jellybean just felt Mary was right for it. Sometimes I do get the feeling that some fans think too deeply about what makes a song a hit. Sometimes a song is just a song no matter who is singing it.

    But for the record, it's hard for me to envision Mary singing this one because I can only hear Madonna and the two singers have two very different voices.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    There's nothing extraordinary about "Holiday". If not for the string of extraordinary singles released in it's wake, Madonna could've very well have been a one hit wonder. Did her voice add anything to "Holiday"? Sure. I think she gives off a fun vibe, and the song is a fun song. But this wasn't a Jennifer Holiday tune. The lyrics are so simple, most of what makes the song worth listening to is the track, so IMO only someone doing the most horrible of vocals could've failed to turn "Holiday" into a hit.

    That being said, there's also no reason to believe that Mary Wilson's "Holiday" would've been exactly like Madonna's. Producers know their singers. Tweaks to tracks get made to suit the singer. Or maybe Jellybean just felt Mary was right for it. Sometimes I do get the feeling that some fans think too deeply about what makes a song a hit. Sometimes a song is just a song no matter who is singing it.

    But for the record, it's hard for me to envision Mary singing this one because I can only hear Madonna and the two singers have two very different voices.
    Good points

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I am not going to go into this too deeply, but Madonna seemingly only did what Ms Ross has done on more than one occasion. I am fully aware of what went on here and Madonna's disgraceful behaviour [[of which this was just the tip of the iceberg) was unforgivable. Ms Ross was livid and let Madonna know exactly what she thought of her behaviour.
    Suffice to say Ms Ross has blanked Madonna on the handful of occasions they have come face to face since then, including one very uncomfortable situation that i witnessed and wished i hadn't in London in the 90's.
    These Diva's will be Diva's......
    Interesting stuff. I would imagine both women have the same kind of tell it as it is, no nonsense personalities which wouldn’t help.

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    Diana arrived unannounced at the studio where nile and madonna were recording like a virgin album with a bottle of champagne to toast madonna's new success telling her that her daughters loved her music.....soon after madonna debuted two new tracks at the Paradise garage nightclub Diana turned up to support apparently all eyes were on diana and not madonna's performance !
    Name:  1984 Billboard Paradise Garage Keith Haring Bday Clip 1862 X 1334  1 MB preview 400.jpg
Views: 340
Size:  36.6 KB

    This photo is from the Paradise Garage event. The only picture I have seen of my two favorite queens, Madonna & Diana, together.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by djessie; 03-04-2021 at 08:20 AM.

  32. #32
    Most likely, nothing.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by djessie View Post
    Name:  1984 Billboard Paradise Garage Keith Haring Bday Clip 1862 X 1334  1 MB preview 400.jpg
Views: 340
Size:  36.6 KB

    This photo is from the Paradise Garage event. The only picture I have seen of my two favorite queens, Madonna & Diana, together.
    A really nice pic. They obviously got on before the dreaded autograph incident. Thanks for posting.

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by djessie View Post
    Name:  1984 Billboard Paradise Garage Keith Haring Bday Clip 1862 X 1334  1 MB preview 400.jpg
Views: 340
Size:  36.6 KB

    This photo is from the Paradise Garage event. The only picture I have seen of my two favorite queens, Madonna & Diana, together.
    I would be very surprised if there are any other photos of this pair of needy Diva's in existence.
    Ms Ross even pulled out of presenting an award at the Brit Awards a few years ago when she learned Madonna would be performing on the same show.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Guy View Post
    "Holiday" is 80s pop perfection. It is all Madonna -- her charm, her edge, her exuberance, her swagger. Don't think it could have been a hit for anyone else.
    It is a perfect pop song with the perfect singer. This Sunday past there was another "Story of Their Songs" on Reelz that featured Madonna and they highlighted this song as well as Like A Virgin and Material Girl. They mentioned that the song was offered to two others singers but did not mention that Mary Wilson was one of them. The writer of the song, Curtis Hudson, mentioned that Madonna was there for the recording of every part of the song and even questioned the guitar lick he was playing. She is also the solo writer of 5 of the 8 tracks on the first album including its biggest hit, Lucky Star.

    Madonna was always going to be a huge success. She has been maligned for her ambitions, re-inventions, overt sexuality, etc. Every producer from Nile Rodgers to Patrick Leonard to William Orbit to Pharrell, Babyface, Timberland, Timberlake, Diplo, Shep Pettibone, Jellybean, etc. has mentioned her work ethic and how involved she was/is in the making of her records, videos, tours, etc. Also, being a New Yorker, I remember all the earlier tracks, Everybody, Physical Attraction and Burning Up being played in all the clubs and on the local radio stations across every format.

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by djessie View Post
    Name:  1984 Billboard Paradise Garage Keith Haring Bday Clip 1862 X 1334  1 MB preview 400.jpg
Views: 340
Size:  36.6 KB

    This photo is from the Paradise Garage event. The only picture I have seen of my two favorite queens, Madonna & Diana, together.
    I remember seeing this photo in the NY Daily News. Always wondered if Nile had produced Diana for her 1985 release instead of the Gibbs. There were several albums he produced in 85-86 that had decent size success, Duran Duran's Notorious, Grace Jones' Inside Story and Sheena Easton's Do You. Would have loved to hear Diana do something like I'm Not Perfect [[But I'm Perfect for You) or Do You which went pop top 30 and probably would have gone higher with Diana singing it.

  37. #37
    Diana appeared on u.k tv show "t.f.i" in 1999 to promote not over you yet... interviewer chris evans said "madonna's just a flash in the pan compared to you.." Diana replied "no she's got some legs" the audience laugh and diana said " I mean longevity.."

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    Diana appeared on u.k tv show "t.f.i" in 1999 to promote not over you yet... interviewer chris evans said "madonna's just a flash in the pan compared to you.." Diana replied "no she's got some legs" the audience laugh and diana said " I mean longevity.."
    I was with her at this appearance. The programme did not run quite as smoothly as you might think.
    Chris Evan's arrived late at the studio much to Ms Ross's dismay. He did not like to rehearse the show. Instead he preferred to be more spontanious and let the show flow naturally. Sometimes that would work. Other times it would be a disaster. Ms Ross did not appreciate any surprises. She needed to be entirely in control and was not given to be put outside of her comfort zone. All this created friction, and it is to the credit of both artists that the finished broadcast looked relaxed and slick.
    The atmosphere after the show was not good, and Chris Evans flounced out of the studio like the spoiled diva he could be and pulled out of the recording of An Audience With Diana Ross 2 days later where he was supposed to ask Ms Ross a question as a member of the audience.
    It was days such as this which made me realise i did not want to do this anymore.
    P.s. Apologies for going slightly off topic.

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I was with her at this appearance. The programme did not run quite as smoothly as you might think.
    Chris Evan's arrived late at the studio much to Ms Ross's dismay. He did not like to rehearse the show. Instead he preferred to be more spontanious and let the show flow naturally. Sometimes that would work. Other times it would be a disaster. Ms Ross did not appreciate any surprises. She needed to be entirely in control and was not given to be put outside of her comfort zone. All this created friction, and it is to the credit of both artists that the finished broadcast looked relaxed and slick.
    The atmosphere after the show was not good, and Chris Evans flounced out of the studio like the spoiled diva he could be and pulled out of the recording of An Audience With Diana Ross 2 days later where he was supposed to ask Ms Ross a question as a member of the audience.
    It was days such as this which made me realise i did not want to do this anymore.
    P.s. Apologies for going slightly off topic.
    wow you would never know there was tension it's a fun interview witty,fast paced and interesting

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    wow you would never know there was tension it's a fun interview witty,fast paced and interesting
    Tell me about it! It looks like everyone was having a ball yet the whole day was an absolute nightmare. I still shudder at the very thought of it.

  41. #41
    Video link?

  42. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepdishus2001 View Post
    She is also the solo writer of 5 of the 8 tracks on the first album including its biggest hit, Lucky Star.
    She has sole writing credit. Stephen Bray worked with her. They traded credits. For example, Bray got sole credit for "Ain't No Big Deal." Madonna took sole credit for "Lucky Star." And Reggie Lucas was given the publishing on "Physical Attraction."

  43. #43
    I just read in "classic pop " magazine that madonna was furious from how much money nile rodgers made from "like a virgin " album and vowed to co produce her next album which was "true blue "...nile must have had a heavy stake in "working overtime" one could presume

  44. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by smallworld View Post
    She has sole writing credit. Stephen Bray worked with her. They traded credits. For example, Bray got sole credit for "Ain't No Big Deal." Madonna took sole credit for "Lucky Star." And Reggie Lucas was given the publishing on "Physical Attraction."
    I know who Stephen Bray is and that they worked together. Ain’t No Big Deal was not on the U.S. album. Reggie Lucas is ‘credited’ with Borderline as well as Physical Attraction. Curtis Hudson and Lisa Stevens for Holiday and Madonna for the other 5. They started sharing the credits on the Like a Virgin album. Loved ‘Each Time You Break My Heart’ that they gave to Nick Kamen. Wish that she had recorded it herself.

  45. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepdishus2001 View Post
    I know who Stephen Bray is and that they worked together. Ain’t No Big Deal was not on the U.S. album. Reggie Lucas is ‘credited’ with Borderline as well as Physical Attraction. Curtis Hudson and Lisa Stevens for Holiday and Madonna for the other 5.
    You probably also know that "Ain't No Big Deal" was in the running for Madonna's debut single. Reggie Lucas wrote "Borderline."

    The phenomenon isn't particular to Madonna, of course. It's been discussed on here that even Holland Dozier Holland had uncredited "help" for certain songs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepdishus2001 View Post
    Loved ‘Each Time You Break My Heart’ that they gave to Nick Kamen. Wish that she had recorded it herself.

    I wish she hadn't given "Love Won't Wait" to Gary Barlow.
    Last edited by smallworld; 03-04-2021 at 10:51 PM.

  46. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepdishus2001 View Post
    I know who Stephen Bray is and that they worked together. Ain’t No Big Deal was not on the U.S. album. Reggie Lucas is ‘credited’ with Borderline as well as Physical Attraction. Curtis Hudson and Lisa Stevens for Holiday and Madonna for the other 5. They started sharing the credits on the Like a Virgin album. Loved ‘Each Time You Break My Heart’ that they gave to Nick Kamen. Wish that she had recorded it herself.
    Yes kamen looked good but he could barely hold a tune lol..the original application to copyright "physical attraction" co credits madonna as a writer it is very similar in chorus to her early demo with bray " crimes of passion " which was discarded coming to light years later with a totally new studio production from bray with her original vocal inserted by this time she sadly no longer collaborated with bray

  47. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by smallworld View Post
    You probably also know that "Ain't No Big Deal" was in the running for Madonna's debut single. Reggie Lucas wrote "Borderline."

    The phenomenon isn't particular to Madonna, of course. It's been discussed on here that even Holland Dozier Holland had uncredited "help" for certain songs.




    I wish she hadn't given "Love Won't Wait" to Gary Barlow.
    Lol, yes, Love Won’t Wait, another great track. Gary Barlow and Take That were/are still good. Do you remember’Get Over’ that they gave to Nick Scotti?

    Oh, I understand about the credits. Probably the most famous reverse case is Lennon McCartney where they each pretty much wrote in solitary but shared the credits for everything.

  48. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    Yes kamen looked good but he could barely hold a tune lol..the original application to copyright "physical attraction" co credits madonna as a writer it is very similar in chorus to her early demo with bray " crimes of passion " which was discarded coming to light years later with a totally new studio production from bray with her original vocal inserted by this time she sadly no longer collaborated with bray
    But he actually made some good records, lol Move Until We Fly, Looking Good Diving and Tell Me featuring more background vocals from Madonna.

  49. #49
    Madonna told "smash hits" magazine in 1987 she had written a song for bryan ferry but it never materialized..I assume pat leonard was involved in the track as ferry's album released at the time was co produced by him... madonna's lost demos and songs for others I find fascinating

  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Tell me about it! It looks like everyone was having a ball yet the whole day was an absolute nightmare. I still shudder at the very thought of it.
    Bluebrock, it's very interesting to know about these occurrences. Not surprising, for sure.

    The fact is, I don't exactly why, but everything Diana was involved in those years seemed to be filled with turbulence: VH1 Divas, the whole Return To Love debacle, the heathrow controversy... how can someone get so much in trouble in so little time?

    I wonder if Diana unconsciously didn't like all the trouble, the fist fights... the backstage stories are always the same: a very challenging diva who was always upset, angry or in disagreement with something around her. Too much trouble for just one person!!!!!

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