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  1. #1

    These "OTHER" Expanded Editions

    Since Mary's death, I have seen an uptick of posts from people in groups I follow on FB. Some have mentioned about other sites selling "Expanded Editions" [[E.g., https://themusicshopandmore.com/the-supremes/). Has anyone bought from this site? If so, what was your experience with the service and the material?

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    Interesting site..

  3. #3
    I've seen that website "Music Shop and More". They're definitely selling illegal CD-R copies.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by carlo View Post
    I've seen that website "Music Shop and More". They're definitely selling illegal CD-R copies.
    What is the quality of the recordings?

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    If Universal would get their backsides in gear it would all but put an end to these bootlegs.
    I am not in any way endorsing this practice, but Universal must take a share of the blame here. There remains a small but very committed audience for this music. Hopefully they will do the right thing and provide the customer with what he/she wants and therefore eliminate the market for these bootleggers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    If Universal would get their backsides in gear it would all but put an end to these bootlegs.
    I am not in any way endorsing this practice, but Universal must take a share of the blame here. There remains a small but very committed audience for this music. Hopefully they will do the right thing and provide the customer with what he/she wants and therefore eliminate the market for these bootleggers.
    Bootleggers [[now) are filling a hole that Universal has created. As you said, if Universal wants to stop the bootlegging and fill the hole themselves, all they have to do is green-light and release [[Supremes) product. If they don't release anything, they have to take a share of the blame for bootlegging happening. Where's "Reflections: Expanded Edition," Universal? Where's the rest of the 60s albums? Where's the '70s Lost & Found? For the last year, people have basically sat at home buying-buying-buying due to COVID quarantining and Universal has released nothing [[on The Supremes). For the first few months, I'd understand the concern of not sending someone "down into the vaults," but... a year on, people are well-informed as to how to protect themselves, to double-mask if necessary, and social distance. There's less and less of a legitimate reason why Universal can't access tapes from their vaults. Here we are halfway through the first quarter of 2021 and...nothing's on the slate for physical releases.

    What makes these releases you're sharing a link to "worse" is that some of these don't even look as good as The German Guy's did--AND some of them ARE bootlegs of what the German Guy released! What is Universal waiting for before shutting these new people down and releasing their own superior product to make up for lost revenue?

    People want this stuff, but Universal isn't doing anything to reduce the possibility of sellers like these from happening: releasing their own superior product on a regular basis.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by danman869 View Post
    Bootleggers [[now) are filling a hole that Universal has created. As you said, if Universal wants to stop the bootlegging and fill the hole themselves, all they have to do is green-light and release [[Supremes) product. If they don't release anything, they have to take a share of the blame for bootlegging happening. Where's "Reflections: Expanded Edition," Universal? Where's the rest of the 60s albums? Where's the '70s Lost & Found? For the last year, people have basically sat at home buying-buying-buying due to COVID quarantining and Universal has released nothing [[on The Supremes). For the first few months, I'd understand the concern of not sending someone "down into the vaults," but... a year on, people are well-informed as to how to protect themselves, to double-mask if necessary, and social distance. There's less and less of a legitimate reason why Universal can't access tapes from their vaults. Here we are halfway through the first quarter of 2021 and...nothing's on the slate for physical releases.

    What makes these releases you're sharing a link to "worse" is that some of these don't even look as good as The German Guy's did--AND some of them ARE bootlegs of what the German Guy released! What is Universal waiting for before shutting these new people down and releasing their own superior product to make up for lost revenue?

    People want this stuff, but Universal isn't doing anything to reduce the possibility of sellers like these from happening: releasing their own superior product on a regular basis.
    Good point, Danman! Look at other groups from this time period [[point being the Beach Boys). Even though it has mostly been digital releases, it's something. Also, isn't there a 50yr copyright law that expires?

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    I'm as peeved at Universal as anyone else here, but don't take it out on the artists by buying their bootlegged work and denying them even the small slice of income they get through licensed/official releases. Spend your energy writing Universal.

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    Universal just doesn't care when it comes to certain artist and that's a shame. it's all about making loads and loads of money. Reflections should have been released 3 years ago for their 50th and likewise with the other album released in 1969. If they don't want expanded for the 70's than at least they could release a lost and found. The songs are just sitting there doing nothing. I sometimes don't even care if the material is good or not. I love the progress of their recordings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thanxal View Post
    I'm as peeved at Universal as anyone else here, but don't take it out on the artists by buying their bootlegged work and denying them even the small slice of income they get through licensed/official releases. Spend your energy writing Universal.
    I wouldn't buy bootleg either, I rather make my own mp3 list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by danman869 View Post
    What makes these releases you're sharing a link to "worse" is that some of these don't even look as good as The German Guy's did--AND some of them ARE bootlegs of what the German Guy released! What is Universal waiting for before shutting these new people down and releasing their own superior product to make up for lost revenue?
    I'd be wary of buying from this site. I think danman869 is correct; many of these are bootlegs of [[the German fellow's) bootlegs. His "Reflections" was a 2-disc set, as was his "Baby It's Me," unlike those offered here.

    The "Funny Girl [[Expanded Edition)" appears to be a direct copy of his bootleg. That one was and also is presented here as a 2-disc set. The "Lady Sings the Blues" also looks like a direct copy of his bootleg, as does the "Soul Kiss" [[Lost and Found) album.

    I'd be hesitant, though I'm tempted by the "Farewell" set. However, it is called an "expanded edition" in the ad, but not on the product itself, and to me it just looks like a direct copy of the "Captured Live on Stage" CD, and it also appears to be a single CD only. I don't notice any titles which aren't likely on the original LP and CD releases.

    Also, take a look at the two box sets, "This is the Story" and "Let Yourself Go." How could he sell 3-CD sets for only $38? Even for a copy, that's pretty cheap for a 3-CD set. I'd really wonder about the quality, though I suppose if you don't have the music, it'd be very tempting as well.

    Finally, the German guy's bootlegs of the concept albums all included both the Mono and Stereo versions of the albums [[except for the "Disney" which only was recorded in Stereo). This could be partial copies of his, but who knows they could also be "needle drops" from old vinyl also.

    He also produced a "Mary Wilson" expanded edition of her solo Motown album. It included "Green River" and some of the other tracks which were never officially released, and [[I believe) still haven't.

    I've never been a big fan of bootlegs, because they're usually inferior quality. What set Ben's [[the German guy) material apart was the care he put into the product, and the beautiful and very professional looking packaging which he created. It was obvious how much he loved the material. I know everyone feels differently about buying bootleg product, but I love the music too much to be able to wait hoping that someday Universal might decide to release more of this music.
    Last edited by kenneth; 02-16-2021 at 05:37 PM.

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    I am sorely tempted to buy - particularly for the CD which have never been made available [[those which have, such as 'Farewell' and 'Reflections' I shall wait until these are re-issued ...someday). However, some of the CD - for example, the Mary Wilson LP with the additional tracks - I'd like. I have heard some of the [[unreleased) tracks on media, such as "You Tube" and the quality is frequently rather poor. This guy may have used technology to improve the quality but somehow, I doubt the sound will be anywhere near as good as the legitimate releases.

    I looked at the shipping rates too - that was enough for me to say "no thanks".

    I think I'll wait until Mr Solomon and Mr Skurow announce the releases from Universal, or Real Gone, or Kent..

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    What a nerve. That Disney collection on the website is using MY own homemade cover!! I did that years ago for myself but posted it on Facebook. Amazing how these things get around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lakedistrictlad1 View Post
    What a nerve. That Disney collection on the website is using MY own homemade cover!! I did that years ago for myself but posted it on Facebook. Amazing how these things get around.
    I thought I recognized that cover! Ben's had a different design though the color pallet was similar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lakedistrictlad1 View Post
    What a nerve. That Disney collection on the website is using MY own homemade cover!! I did that years ago for myself but posted it on Facebook. Amazing how these things get around.
    Bootleggers don't care who they rip off to make a fast buck!

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    Agreed blue rock.
    Universal needs to kick in gear or ...this is what happens.
    Their choice.
    Obviously there is an audience and demand

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by fightingirish46 View Post
    What is the quality of the recordings?
    I haven't bought any of these bootlegs, since I have all of the official releases. I would guess that the audio is a direct rip from the official releases...and the audio quality on those have always been good. However, instead of paying these exorbitant prices for inferior bootlegs, I recommend buying your own blank CD-R's on Amazon, and an external CD burner for your computer, if you don't already have one. Then you can purchase the digital downloads from iTunes and make your own physical releases, instead of buying these knock-offs from this website.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    If Universal would get their backsides in gear it would all but put an end to these bootlegs.
    I am not in any way endorsing this practice, but Universal must take a share of the blame here. There remains a small but very committed audience for this music. Hopefully they will do the right thing and provide the customer with what he/she wants and therefore eliminate the market for these bootleggers.
    Yup. Mike-drop.

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    Some of these seem to be a complete knockoffs of the guy Ben from Germany. And some are not. The Disney one from Germany had a different cover. And also included “Chim Chim Cher-Ree”, “Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Da” and “A Spoonful of Sugar”. These have never been officially released. He also always gave the stereo and mono versions on the others.

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    Although I have not purchased any bootleg Supremes CDs, I did buy VHS pay as I go 60's/ 70's/ 80's solo video clips in the 80's....this was before YouTube...I also found TCB in a NYC pricey Rock bootleg record store....
    I have succumbed to buying Pirate CD copies of LP's...quite a few post '62 LP's by Connie Francis, and assorted LPs by 60's country artists....that was 15 years ago...and those LPs are still not available commercially. They sound "OK" enjoyable, but tiney at times...they cost less than MINT copies of the LP's would...I would still purchase legit pro remastered CD's if UMG would co-operate with her rep who is currently [[and has been for a long time) actively trying .

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    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    I'd be wary of buying from this site. I think danman869 is correct; many of these are bootlegs of [[the German fellow's) bootlegs. His "Reflections" was a 2-disc set, as was his "Baby It's Me," unlike those offered here.

    The "Funny Girl [[Expanded Edition)" appears to be a direct copy of his bootleg. That one was and also is presented here as a 2-disc set. The "Lady Sings the Blues" also looks like a direct copy of his bootleg, as does the "Soul Kiss" [[Lost and Found) album.

    I'd be hesitant, though I'm tempted by the "Farewell" set. However, it is called an "expanded edition" in the ad, but not on the product itself, and to me it just looks like a direct copy of the "Captured Live on Stage" CD, and it also appears to be a single CD only. I don't notice any titles which aren't likely on the original LP and CD releases.

    Also, take a look at the two box sets, "This is the Story" and "Let Yourself Go." How could he sell 3-CD sets for only $38? Even for a copy, that's pretty cheap for a 3-CD set. I'd really wonder about the quality, though I suppose if you don't have the music, it'd be very tempting as well.

    Finally, the German guy's bootlegs of the concept albums all included both the Mono and Stereo versions of the albums [[except for the "Disney" which only was recorded in Stereo). This could be partial copies of his, but who knows they could also be "needle drops" from old vinyl also.

    He also produced a "Mary Wilson" expanded edition of her solo Motown album. It included "Green River" and some of the other tracks which were never officially released, and [[I believe) still haven't.

    I've never been a big fan of bootlegs, because they're usually inferior quality. What set Ben's [[the German guy) material apart was the care he put into the product, and the beautiful and very professional looking packaging which he created. It was obvious how much he loved the material. I know everyone feels differently about buying bootleg product, but I love the music too much to be able to wait hoping that someday Universal might decide to release more of this music.
    So these offerings are actually bootlegs of bootlegs? Whatever next?
    I heard this guy Ben was arrested and imprisoned yet his legacy continues thanks to Universal's reluctance to officially release the product.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    So these offerings are actually bootlegs of bootlegs? Whatever next?
    I heard this guy Ben was arrested and imprisoned yet his legacy continues thanks to Universal's reluctance to officially release the product.
    'Bootlegs of bootlegs' are not only not uncommon, but usually de facto. In your own country one Mr. Charles Dickens experienced enterprising printers obtaining copies of his monthly novel installments, hastily re-wrote them and published counterfeited copies under recognizable names such as "Davey Popperfield, by a London Gentleman". In turn these counterfeits would be reprinted and sold as if they were official. Here in the US live recordings of classical concerts were taped from radio then re-pressed under a series of 'editions', and starting in the 78 rpm days big band recordings faced the same procedure. Following that, when singers such as Bing Crosby and Peggy Lee [[etc) had frequent radio appearances these, too, were transcribed and re-transcribed and sold in record shops. Some say that the "big" era of bootlegging began with Bob Dylan's pre-"Basement Tapes" official releases on an unofficial lp label "Great White Wonder", which were then obtained by soldier-of-fortune Dylan fans and copied onto 8-track tapes. Indeed, not only is it rare for any bootleg to be from an original source, it is almost unheard of to be otherwise. This is why more forward-thinking bands [[The Dead, Pearl Jam, etc) decided years ago to process and produce CDs of every live performance. Have a great day; quiz on Friday.
    Last edited by PeaceNHarmony; 02-17-2021 at 10:06 AM.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by gman View Post
    Although I have not purchased any bootleg Supremes CDs, I did buy VHS pay as I go 60's/ 70's/ 80's solo video clips in the 80's....this was before YouTube...I also found TCB in a NYC pricey Rock bootleg record store....
    I have succumbed to buying Pirate CD copies of LP's...quite a few post '62 LP's by Connie Francis, and assorted LPs by 60's country artists....that was 15 years ago...and those LPs are still not available commercially. They sound "OK" enjoyable, but tiney at times...they cost less than MINT copies of the LP's would...I would still purchase legit pro remastered CD's if UMG would co-operate with her rep who is currently [[and has been for a long time) actively trying .
    I got to admit I did the same [[VHS/Audio Tapes) of the Supremes when I was in my teens [[in the late 90s). I will be thankful to the ones I connected with [[who are well known now in our community) for shedding the light [[even more) on my favorite group. Those songs and videos made me smile in some trying times in my teens.

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    I own loads of bootleg cds of Frank Sinatra that were sold in the 80's before his record companies started to bring out expanded editions of his albums. Because I bought and still buy all the official Sinatra releases I dont feel guilty at all.

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    Like jack020, I have some bootlegs in my collection. Some I bought years ago in used CD stores and had no idea they were bootlegs, they looked like collections from Europe. Easier now to find out what is a bootleg and what's official. I have also replaced my bootlegs with their official release when they became available. I can honestly say that Universal has tried my patience with their non-release of material. That said, I thank Andy & George for constantly pushing to get material to us. For goodness sake, we are ready to buy. Give us something to spend our money on!

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    I honestly don´t believe anyone buying these bootlegs is not someone who has already spent quite a lot of money on the officially available releases from the artists.

    I have about 600 Diana/The Supremes CD´s and yes some of them are bootlegs. But I own several different official releases of each release [[including every Diana/The Supremes album and every compilation I have gotten my hands on), so the unofficial ones are just for my collection.

    I truly think that most fans bought, say, the Funny Girl CD when it was finally officially released - even if they had a bootleg previously [[I know I did).

    Bottom line: the artists are only truly losing out when the owners of the masters refuse to officially release them. The fact that Funny Girl and Merry Christmas were recently released gives some hope for the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by djessie View Post
    I honestly don´t believe anyone buying these bootlegs is not someone who has already spent quite a lot of money on the officially available releases from the artists.

    I have about 600 Diana/The Supremes CD´s and yes some of them are bootlegs. But I own several different official releases of each release [[including every Diana/The Supremes album and every compilation I have gotten my hands on), so the unofficial ones are just for my collection.

    I truly think that most fans bought, say, the Funny Girl CD when it was finally officially released - even if they had a bootleg previously [[I know I did).

    Bottom line: the artists are only truly losing out when the owners of the masters refuse to officially release them. The fact that Funny Girl and Merry Christmas were recently released gives some hope for the future.
    Very true at least in my case. I probably played the vinyl edition of "Funny Girl" maybe once or twice. I purchased the downloads when they became available, then I purchased Ben's 2-disc bootleg, and yes, then I purchased the official ultimate edition.

    In any event, I have no guilt whatsoever. To me, it's all about the music.

    Someone mentioned that Ben may have been imprisoned. I never heard that, though it's probably been 2 years since I had any contact with him. Last I heard [[from him) was he was working out some sort of plea deal to avoid prosecution. I'd be shocked to learn he may have actually been tried and convicted, but I have no knowledge either way.

    I thought his greatest effort was the entire catalog of Martha Reeves and the Vandellas. All the albums were presented plus the "Live at the Copa." Most were 2-CD editions, though not so much the later ones. Each of the early albums had the Mono/Stereo versions of the album [[even the official "Live" album), and most included a 2nd disc of hard to find rarities. I'm sure most of the rarities were released by Hip-O on various releases, such as their "Spellbound," the 3rd disk in the 50th Anniversary set, and across multiple "Motown Connossieurs" [[sp?) or other vault compilations. But having all the rarities in a series devoted to Martha and the Vandellas makes them more accessible. For whatever reason, when these rarities are presented as part of a box set [[such as with the Marvelettes) I tend to forget about them unless I'm playing the entire set. Silly, I know.

    At one time, he was considering doing the same with the Marvelettes catalog, but I discouraged him even though they are my favorite Motown group, because their "lost and found" tracks are virtually all contained on 2 discs within the 2 box sets, though a couple sneaked out later in some of the Ace/Kent issues. So to present them again seemed unnecessary. The Vandellas' catalog was much more scattered across many different releases, including many various artist comps, so I welcomed having them more or less in one place [[series, that is). I suppose it would have been nice to have the Mono/Stereo versions of the early Marvelettes' albums. I believe that the 90s [[or was it 80s?) reissue of the "Please Mr. Postman" LP was in true Stereo; I'm unsure about the single CD issues of "Playboy" [[I think there was one) or "Marvelous" [[I know there was one). To my knowledge, we never got a CD issue of "Smash Hits of '62," though I believe there's a Japanese issue coming out soon. Of course, the Hip-O 2nd box set included both Mono/Stereo versions of "The Marvelettes" [[pink album) and "Sophisticated Soul" [[whose Mono was a DJ-only promo).

    From this topic coming up many times, I'm sure many have different thoughts about the ethics of such things, but as I'm fond of pointing out, just how long did we wait for the Blinky release? I don't have another 50 years to wait!
    Last edited by kenneth; 02-17-2021 at 07:11 PM.

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    djessie the same here..I bought every single bootleg from Ben including Funny Girl but when Funny Girl was released officially I bought that and I would with all the releases were they to be released officially..the bootlegs were absolutely beautifully made and totally agree with you in saying the owners of the masters are the ones making the artists lose out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mowsville View Post
    djessie the same here..I bought every single bootleg from Ben including Funny Girl but when Funny Girl was released officially I bought that and I would with all the releases were they to be released officially..the bootlegs were absolutely beautifully made and totally agree with you in saying the owners of the masters are the ones making the artists lose out.
    I agree totally. I also bought most of Bens bootlegs. I also have so many copies of the Funny Girl bootleg from years past. But Bens was really nice. But It didn’t stop me from the download or the official release which I bought too. Some of Bens bootlegs have never been officially released. I don’t believe in my lifetime they will ever be officially released. So I treasure Diana Ross live at the Coconut Grove and others that I would probably never had the opportunity to hear.

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    I bought almost all of Ben's Supremes, Ross, and Wilson releases, as well as all of the Martha & Vandellas CD's. They were all class products. He cared. He was a fan. He wanted to present product that we could not otherwise get for the fans, and even though he was technically producing bootleg CD's, I applaud him. I hate he got into trouble. I looked very forward to each new set of releases from him.

    And for the record, I do not and did not feel I was stealing from any of the artists. This material WAS NOT being made available. The artists were not being paid for it anyway. It was just sitting in a vault or on a shelf someplace.

    I also purchase[[d) all of the official releases from Universal, Hip O Select, Kent/Ace, Real Gone, and other labels. I would absolutely purchase more if it were made available.

    As for this new site, I have not ordered from this guy, but there are a couple of things I may consider. I'd prefer official issues, but I'll take this music however I can get it.

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    I really want the Mary ‘red hot’ album on cd. The price of this set is high and postage to me is 76 dollars.
    I know Mary said universal were releasing it 2 days before her sad passing but there’s no official word ...
    it’s no wonder people buy bootlegs !

    universal miss the boat so many times [[until it sails away )

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    ... and who else created Gladys Knight & the Pips expanded editions? Or ever will? Would I have FAR preferred official releases? Yup. Will I buy official releases if they ever become available? Yes.

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    I see both sides of this pirating issue. for those of us interested in music that is obscure in terms of what the general public usually knows, it has been very frustrating not being able to buy some of this stuff for decades--even stuff that was at some point actually officially released [[Nona Hendryx's X-Ray, Jerry Harrison's first solo record, etc). Now that we're in the digital age, there is no excuse that anything is left unreleased. It's about money and these huge record companies don't care about obscure, rare stuff. So what is a collector supposed to do?
    On the other hand, I personally made copies of a [[then) unseen performance by Labelle that was given to me by somebody in their organization. I asked permission to give it out to hardcore fans, spending nearly $3 K of my own money to make VHS copies [[this was 1997), and gave them out for free. I even paid for the postage. Next thing you know, one of these imbeciles was selling it on EBAY. I know who the guy is and I am watching him. Anyway, as thanks for my generosity I never received a dime for even postage, and had to go explain to my friend in Labelle's organization why it was on EBAY. My friend was angry but understood what happened. This person will never give anything out again, and I understand why. People can usually be trusted, I've found, but there are always those parasites who are so low they would stoop to making a few bucks while screwing over others. I had to stop sending out ANYTHING and it was the fans who suffered because of one parasite.

  35. #35
    Unfortunately the music biz in general has been a sad state of affairs for quite some time now. It seems in terms of physical releases, all of the majors are focusing their strategies on vinyl releases...and even many of those have been quite pathetic, IMHO. They're focusing on vinyl because they can appeal to the upsurge in vinyl collectors who want the same album on a pink vinyl, a yellow vinyl, a purple vinyl, etc. The prices have gone through the roof and the quality is absolute garbage. I can't tell you how many new vinyl releases I've bought in the past few years where the disc quality was poor. Many of these were released by Universal. You can go to any vinyl box set product page on Amazon and you'll more than likely see the flood of quality complaints. The big decision makers are out of touch. Thank God for these small specialty labels, otherwise we'd be getting nothing. Universal UK recently put out a Tom Jones box set of his Decca albums and they couldn't even be bothered to include the back of the original album artwork on the mini CD cardboard sleeves, so they just blacked them out. At least we can take comfort in knowing that Andy and George would never allow something like that to happen with a Supremes or Motown release.

    At this point, I sadly agree that many of the remaining unissued expanded editions and albums will more than likely not see the light of day, with a physical release. At least we got a lot of good stuff, while we could. RIP Hip-O Select.

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    @Carlo,

    I wasn't aware the new vinyl collectable releases were such poor quality. I remember back in the day you didn't expect a picture disk to have decent sound; there were even disclaimer stickers on them that said something like "sound quality may differ from the conventional edition" or whatnot. But a colored vinyl disk should not have those issues.

    I too have wanted to buy some of them but they are ridiculously expensive. I suppose there was a time in my life when I might have collected different color vinyl of the same release, but no longer.

    Collectables Records [[Oldies.Com) has a number of CD box sets which offer 10-20 albums on one artist. A lot of them are substandard quality as well. I bought a Mahalia Jackson set and the sound was unlistenable so I returned it. More recently I bought a Sammy Davis set and it was better so I kept it. The cost of course on those is maybe $20 for 10 CDs, so you can't complain too much or expect perfection, but still you want to enjoy the listen or what's the point, after all.

  37. #37
    Ken, in the case of these inferior quality vinyl box sets, some of these are being marketed as audiophile releases, with superior mastering but very low quality vinyls. The quality control seems to be nonexistent. The same can be said for the Tom Jones CD box set [[and others), as a bunch of the CD's were straight vinyl transfers to CD, complete with pops and clicks. Some of his albums were also inexplicably excluded altogether. So much for being a box set of 'complete albums'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    'Bootlegs of bootlegs' are not only not uncommon, but usually de facto. In your own country one Mr. Charles Dickens experienced enterprising printers obtaining copies of his monthly novel installments, hastily re-wrote them and published counterfeited copies under recognizable names such as "Davey Popperfield, by a London Gentleman". In turn these counterfeits would be reprinted and sold as if they were official. Here in the US live recordings of classical concerts were taped from radio then re-pressed under a series of 'editions', and starting in the 78 rpm days big band recordings faced the same procedure. Following that, when singers such as Bing Crosby and Peggy Lee [[etc) had frequent radio appearances these, too, were transcribed and re-transcribed and sold in record shops. Some say that the "big" era of bootlegging began with Bob Dylan's pre-"Basement Tapes" official releases on an unofficial lp label "Great White Wonder", which were then obtained by soldier-of-fortune Dylan fans and copied onto 8-track tapes. Indeed, not only is it rare for any bootleg to be from an original source, it is almost unheard of to be otherwise. This is why more forward-thinking bands [[The Dead, Pearl Jam, etc) decided years ago to process and produce CDs of every live performance. Have a great day; quiz on Friday.
    Thank you so much for your detailed and very interesting response!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    ... and who else created Gladys Knight & the Pips expanded editions? Or ever will? Would I have FAR preferred official releases? Yup. Will I buy official releases if they ever become available? Yes.
    There were Gladys and the Pips expanded editions? Wow. I never knew that. Now i am really interested.

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    Just for the record: Ben did thankfully not go to prison. The whole thing was already ridiculous enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Thank you so much for your detailed and very interesting response!
    You, my educated friend, are most welcome. There is more to the history of counterfeiting/bootlegging but, as you know, brevity is the soul of wit. In lieu of Friday's quiz you can ... I don't know - how about just remaining sane and interesting?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    Collectables Records [[Oldies.Com) has a number of CD box sets which offer 10-20 albums on one artist. A lot of them are substandard quality as well. I bought a Mahalia Jackson set and the sound was unlistenable so I returned it. More recently I bought a Sammy Davis set and it was better so I kept it. The cost of course on those is maybe $20 for 10 CDs, so you can't complain too much or expect perfection, but still you want to enjoy the listen or what's the point, after all.
    On some of their releases, Collectables used to use vinyl in quite terrible shape. I recall this happening on their first Linda Jones compilation as well as one on Gloria Lynne.

    The latter had some particularly bad examples, surface noise so bad that you could barely hear the recording. I was surprised that a label would issue such inferior product. In her book, Gloria wrote that Collectables actually borrowed her copies of her Everest albums to use so that they could put them out on cd.

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    I recently found a 'grey market' CD of one of my last 'bucket list' albums from the lp era. When the CD and re-release boom began I looked forward to this favorite LP being issued in CD format. Never happened. I continued to look forward as labels issued major 'dumps' of catalog lp product on CD. Never happened. Far more obscure lps were, and are, issued on CD, but not this one. For years I championed its release on CD to re-release labels, on forums, etc. Never happened. Once or twice a year there are rumors that the title will be coming out on CD. Never happened. So, 35 years into the CD era, and nearly 50 years after the lp's original release, is it logical for me to keep waiting? I think ... not. If an official release EVER becomes available, I certainly will buy it. IF I remain alive when [[and, if) that happens.
    Last edited by PeaceNHarmony; 02-18-2021 at 01:48 PM.

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    i agree that given the craziness of the past year and consumers eager to purchase media, any EE that is close to being ready should be released.

    I do wonder if there could be delays though in future ones. not because of Universal but because offices are closed/remote. Not sure if Andy, Harry, George and the others are able to access the studios and vaults. so it would make sense that if we were to get an EE on Talk of the Town or Love Child, those could be delayed because all of the prep work they'd be doing now, is postponed due to pandemic.

    but yes. they should have released Reflections by now [[assuming it was done enough to go out)

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    I recently found a 'grey market' CD of one of my last 'bucket list' albums from the lp era. When the CD and re-release boom began I looked forward to this favorite LP being issued in CD format. Never happened. I continued to look forward as labels issued major 'dumps' of catalog lp product on CD. Never happened. Far more obscure lps were, and are, issued on CD, but not this one. For years I championed its release on CD to re-release labels, on forums, etc. Never happened. Once or twice a year there are rumors that the title will be coming out on CD. Never happened. So, 35 years into the CD era, and nearly 50 years after the lp's original release, is it logical for me to keep waiting? I think ... not. If an official release EVER becomes available, I certainly will buy it. IF I remain alive when [[and, if) that happens.
    please tell us what album it is! Inquiring minds want to know! Of course if we don’t agree with you, will pick your decision apart little by little LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    On some of their releases, Collectables used to use vinyl in quite terrible shape. I recall this happening on their first Linda Jones compilation as well as one on Gloria Lynne.

    The latter had some particularly bad examples, surface noise so bad that you could barely hear the recording. I was surprised that a label would issue such inferior product. In her book, Gloria wrote that Collectables actually borrowed her copies of her Everest albums to use so that they could put them out on cd.
    I too bought that Linda Jones CD! I saw there was a newer release recently which seems to be a little more complete although I don’t recall what label it was, but I want to be sure it’s an improvement before I spend money on it. She’s a tough vocalist to collect because I don’t think she recorded very much and she died so young. But some of her work is amazing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    I too bought that Linda Jones CD! I saw there was a newer release recently which seems to be a little more complete although I don’t recall what label it was, but I want to be sure it’s an improvement before I spend money on it. She’s a tough vocalist to collect because I don’t think she recorded very much and she died so young. But some of her work is amazing.
    Subsequently she has had collections on Empire Musicwerks, Real Gone, and Kent. I don't think vinyl was used on any of these. If so, I can't tell.

    Also good is her lost live cd NEVER MIND THE QUALITY...FEEL THE SOUL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    please tell us what album it is! Inquiring minds want to know! Of course if we don’t agree with you, will pick your decision apart little by little LOL
    I just can't. Really. I'd love to, but ... just can't. SOOO deeply private a selection. I'd love to, but just ... can't. NOTHING would allow me to tell you, though I would love to. Truly. It's simply .... Oh, OK. Jerry Butler's "The Spice of Life". I WILL purchase an official release the nano-second if it is released. BUT can't wait another minute. Do you have any remaining bucket-list cds?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    I just can't. Really. I'd love to, but ... just can't. SOOO deeply private a selection. I'd love to, but just ... can't. NOTHING would allow me to tell you, though I would love to. Truly. It's simply .... Oh, OK. Jerry Butler's "The Spice of Life". I WILL purchase an official release the nano-second if it is released. BUT can't wait another minute. Do you have any remaining bucket-list cds?
    Thanks for sharing that. It’s always fascinating to learn these things about folks.

    I’ve only come to appreciate Jerry Butler lately. I think when I was younger I just thought he was too mellow or something. Now I’ve really come to appreciate his voice. I believe he was on VeeJay records for most of his career, wasn’t he?

    Another vocalist who I think is in a similar vein is Major Lance who I only learned last year, when she became a popular news guest, that he was the father of the mayor of Atlanta, Keisha Lance Bottoms. Whenever they interview her one of his albums is sitting on her shelf in the background, proudly displayed.

    What makes that Jerry Butler album so rare or hard to find? Has his catalog not Been issued on CD for the most part?

    I don’t have too many CDs on my bucket list, except one which you’ll probably laugh at. I really love the Salsoul Orchestra’s “Christmas jollies,“ and I have both volumes on CD but volume two is very hard to find and I’d love to buy it for a friend of mine. I love those two albums. They’re so joyful and fun to listen to especially on New Year’s Eve it’s become kind of a tradition for me to listen to both albums.

    Now other than that I can’t think of anything which I just have to have. I’m afraid I’ve bought everything!

    But I’d love to know what Jerry Butler albums you highly recommend as long as they’re available and won’t cost me a fortune!

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