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Thread: Ross visability

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    It would seem questionable for me that MJ and his scandals would be an issue for a DVD release of the '81 special. The Motown 25 release from 2014 made it without an issue and is probably still selling on the strength of MJ's performance alone. I'm not seeing widespread industry backlash to the allegations. Isn't MJ still as popular as he's always been, give or take X amount of fans?
    Good point regarding Motown 25 Ran, and your probably right about MJ.
    Perhaps it’s partly due to Diana herself that the concert footage remains languishing in the vaults gathering dust. Unlike Motown 25, it’s not as if it contains scenes of her displaying aggressive behaviour towards a fellow artist is it?. Talking of Mary, I would love to see the segment of her singing “Reach Out And Touch” with Diana.

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Yeah, I'd like to know what all were the songs performed at the Forum. I also would love to see the unedited "Reach Out and Touch". She could've kept the other filmed segments for another special. She and Michael doing "Rock With You" was magic, and would've been a great partnership for another television special.
    At the time, I remember SOUL magazine doing a review of the Forum concert. I wasn't able to "borrow" the issue it was in from my local library. But I wouldn't be surprised if the set list was basicially similar to the HBO concert, with her most recent hits UPSIDE DOWN, I'M COMING OUT, and IT'S MY TURN included as well.
    Last edited by reese; 01-12-2021 at 11:33 AM.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Re diana 1981, every guest aside from Quincy Jones and the Joffrey Ballet are deceased, and even some of the Ballet members might very well have left us. Not to mention Muhammed Ali is shown during the REACH OUT AND TOUCH segment. Maybe their estates are part of the problem.
    It would make sense if that is part of the reason reese. It’s all rather frustrating.
    Last edited by Ollie9; 01-12-2021 at 11:48 AM.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Re diana 1981, every guest aside from Quincy Jones and the Joffrey Ballet are deceased, and even some of the Ballet members might very well have left us. Not to mention Muhammed Ali is shown during the REACH OUT AND TOUCH segment. Maybe their estates are part of the problem.
    Deke Richards, years ago, shared with us the grueling process they went through with Farewell to get stars to sign off on their brief lines in the Let The Sunshine In segment. he said there were tons more stars that sang but some didn't like how they sounded or didn't want this or didn't want that or whatever.

    to release the Forum concern, you'd certainly have to deal with releases, unless you greatly edited Reach Out and Touch. And the cost and effort to getting all of the paperwork done could greatly outweigh the benefits or revenue from the sales

    one of the highlights of the show was certainly MJ's appearance with Diana. it was a wonderful segment. The cost though in royalties and fees that would be required in order to use this would be extremely high.

    If companies honestly thought they could generate appropriate profit from this, they would most likely do it. or at least pursue it. But i can't image that a concert dvd release of Diana Ross from 1981 with a few mins of MJ time would be selling 100,000s. i don't think it is likely that this sales volume would occur today. us die-hard fans think this content is marvelous but 99.999999999% of everyone else really couldn't care less. perhaps if there were some large tie-in event like a tv special or theatrical release on MJ.

    i don't know what issue Blue is referring to but i have more than enough faith in his expertise to trust his comments. MJ and Diana were not close during the later decades. I think the story goes that her wedding to Arnae really drove a wedge between them but i think it had started well before. just because they had some musical roots and shared experiences doesn't really mean they had a deep personal friendship. a mentor/mentee relationship often focuses really just on the primary subject matter at hand. and frankly, did DR really mentor MJ that much?!?! it's not like she was giving his Artist Development classes while he was at motown.

    i think it was the situation of two people, with significant age differences and life experiences, that appreciated one another and shared some meaningful professional experiences. but as time went on and each continued down their respective professional paths, they naturally grew apart.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Deke Richards, years ago, shared with us the grueling process they went through with Farewell to get stars to sign off on their brief lines in the Let The Sunshine In segment. he said there were tons more stars that sang but some didn't like how they sounded or didn't want this or didn't want that or whatever.

    to release the Forum concern, you'd certainly have to deal with releases, unless you greatly edited Reach Out and Touch. And the cost and effort to getting all of the paperwork done could greatly outweigh the benefits or revenue from the sales

    one of the highlights of the show was certainly MJ's appearance with Diana. it was a wonderful segment. The cost though in royalties and fees that would be required in order to use this would be extremely high.

    If companies honestly thought they could generate appropriate profit from this, they would most likely do it. or at least pursue it. But i can't image that a concert dvd release of Diana Ross from 1981 with a few mins of MJ time would be selling 100,000s. i don't think it is likely that this sales volume would occur today. us die-hard fans think this content is marvelous but 99.999999999% of everyone else really couldn't care less. perhaps if there were some large tie-in event like a tv special or theatrical release on MJ.

    i don't know what issue Blue is referring to but i have more than enough faith in his expertise to trust his comments. MJ and Diana were not close during the later decades. I think the story goes that her wedding to Arnae really drove a wedge between them but i think it had started well before. just because they had some musical roots and shared experiences doesn't really mean they had a deep personal friendship. a mentor/mentee relationship often focuses really just on the primary subject matter at hand. and frankly, did DR really mentor MJ that much?!?! it's not like she was giving his Artist Development classes while he was at motown.

    i think it was the situation of two people, with significant age differences and life experiences, that appreciated one another and shared some meaningful professional experiences. but as time went on and each continued down their respective professional paths, they naturally grew apart.
    I tend to think there was a little more to their relationship then merely shared professional experiences. As a child MJ lived with Diana for a time, while as an adult he chose to make her the guardian of his children. Surely that suggests something a little more substantial then a professional friendship that had fallen by the way.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I tend to think there was a little more to their relationship then merely shared professional experiences. As a child MJ lived with Diana for a time, while as an adult he chose to make her the guardian of his children. Surely that suggests something a little more substantial then a professional friendship that had fallen by the way.
    sure - i don't mean they NEVER hung out or did anything outside of their professional work. Diana recommended MJ for The Wiz and they certainly had lots of time there to interact. but he was all of 20. not a kid certainly but still very young. As MJ grew into his own and experienced his own massive, independent success, he and Ross certainly spent much less time together. he was hanging out with Elizabeth Taylor and Liza. so during the 80s their personal interaction definitely decreased significantly. the wedding, i believe, simply drove a much more obvious wedge into a relationship that had already drifted

    also as for guardianship of the kids, didn't that go to his mother?

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    sure - i don't mean they NEVER hung out or did anything outside of their professional work. Diana recommended MJ for The Wiz and they certainly had lots of time there to interact. but he was all of 20. not a kid certainly but still very young. As MJ grew into his own and experienced his own massive, independent success, he and Ross certainly spent much less time together. he was hanging out with Elizabeth Taylor and Liza. so during the 80s their personal interaction definitely decreased significantly. the wedding, i believe, simply drove a much more obvious wedge into a relationship that had already drifted

    also as for guardianship of the kids, didn't that go to his mother?
    Diana was made potential guardian of the children depending on the circumstances of his mother I don’t think their love for each other ever drifted. It’s like meeting a close friend after many years. Just because you might not have been in recent contact, you don’t stop loving them.
    I think this is the same of Diana and Michael . For evidence, one only has to look at how defensive Diana became during interviews if she thought Micheal was being slighted in any way. Much the same way she would one of her children.

  8. #58
    By all accounts DR is a fantastic mother and enjoys that role. She is in her 70's and deserves to take it easy. I don't think not having a Christmas special makes a bit of difference to almost anybody. Nobody even watches them these days. After decades of hit records, hit movies/TV specials, and sold out arenas I think she can handle the lack of Christmas specials.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyC View Post
    By all accounts DR is a fantastic mother and enjoys that role. She is in her 70's and deserves to take it easy. I don't think not having a Christmas special makes a bit of difference to almost anybody. Nobody even watches them these days. After decades of hit records, hit movies/TV specials, and sold out arenas I think she can handle the lack of Christmas specials.
    Me too. She is the happiest she has ever been in her whole life.
    She is far far prouder of the way her children have made their way in the world than any artistic achievements, and i applaud her for that. Family is way more important than any material achievements.

  10. #60
    Diana already had a Christmas special. Remember “Christmas in Vienna”? Or are we being picky cause it wasn’t a Christmas with the Ross’s?

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by khansperac View Post
    Diana already had a Christmas special. Remember “Christmas in Vienna”? Or are we being picky cause it wasn’t a Christmas with the Ross’s?
    Actually, December 1992 was a good month for Diana as she had two specials: CHRISTMAS IN VIENNA and DIANA ROSS LIVE: THE LADY SINGS...

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Me too. She is the happiest she has ever been in her whole life.
    She is far far prouder of the way her children have made their way in the world than any artistic achievements, and i applaud her for that. Family is way more important than any material achievements.
    From my advantageous position as an outsider and 50+ year fan, this makes me far happier than any new album, tour, etc could possible do (though those would be nice as well). I have innumerable joyous memories of being a Diana Ross fan and the thought of the lady cozy, comfy and beloved by an extended family brings me (admittedly, selfish) happiness in this time of turmoil.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Me too. She is the happiest she has ever been in her whole life.
    She is far far prouder of the way her children have made their way in the world than any artistic achievements, and i applaud her for that. Family is way more important than any material achievements.
    Well stated. But ... if the thread was not started as a troll, certainly so many of the posts were/are. Gotta wonder how many of the dog-whistle responders have wives or mothers of Diana's age that they troll for not working, if that's their choice in life!

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Talking of Mary, I would love to see the segment of her singing “Reach Out And Touch” with Diana.
    Yeah, and in addition I'd love to know why that particular moment was cut from the show. An honest answer might prove enlightening.

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    At the time, I remember SOUL magazine doing a review of the Forum concert. I wasn't able to "borrow" the issue it was in from my local library. But I wouldn't be surprised if the set list was basicially similar to the HBO concert, with her most recent hits UPSIDE DOWN, I'M COMING OUT, and IT'S MY TURN included as well.
    Yeah, you're probably right. Would be nice to find out if she included any surprise numbers like recent random album tracks or a cover of a recent song.

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Deke Richards, years ago, shared with us the grueling process they went through with Farewell to get stars to sign off on their brief lines in the Let The Sunshine In segment. he said there were tons more stars that sang but some didn't like how they sounded or didn't want this or didn't want that or whatever.

    to release the Forum concern, you'd certainly have to deal with releases, unless you greatly edited Reach Out and Touch. And the cost and effort to getting all of the paperwork done could greatly outweigh the benefits or revenue from the sales

    one of the highlights of the show was certainly MJ's appearance with Diana. it was a wonderful segment. The cost though in royalties and fees that would be required in order to use this would be extremely high.

    If companies honestly thought they could generate appropriate profit from this, they would most likely do it. or at least pursue it. But i can't image that a concert dvd release of Diana Ross from 1981 with a few mins of MJ time would be selling 100,000s. i don't think it is likely that this sales volume would occur today. us die-hard fans think this content is marvelous but 99.999999999% of everyone else really couldn't care less. perhaps if there were some large tie-in event like a tv special or theatrical release on MJ.

    i don't know what issue Blue is referring to but i have more than enough faith in his expertise to trust his comments. MJ and Diana were not close during the later decades. I think the story goes that her wedding to Arnae really drove a wedge between them but i think it had started well before. just because they had some musical roots and shared experiences doesn't really mean they had a deep personal friendship. a mentor/mentee relationship often focuses really just on the primary subject matter at hand. and frankly, did DR really mentor MJ that much?!?! it's not like she was giving his Artist Development classes while he was at motown.

    i think it was the situation of two people, with significant age differences and life experiences, that appreciated one another and shared some meaningful professional experiences. but as time went on and each continued down their respective professional paths, they naturally grew apart.
    I figured releases might be a problem for "Reach". In regards to DVD sales, when I see dvds of some of the most obscure stuff hitting the street, it's hard for me to fathom that there isn't a way to release Diana Ross related material, a singer who is among the most popular ever.

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I tend to think there was a little more to their relationship then merely shared professional experiences. As a child MJ lived with Diana for a time, while as an adult he chose to make her the guardian of his children. Surely that suggests something a little more substantial then a professional friendship that had fallen by the way.
    Agreed. For him to put Diana in his will as guardian of his children in the event that his mother was unable to act in that capacity for one reason or another, suggests that the relationship he shared with Diana was closer than the absence of them spending time together in the public eye. A relationship had to still exist.

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by khansperac View Post
    Diana already had a Christmas special. Remember “Christmas in Vienna”? Or are we being picky cause it wasn’t a Christmas with the Ross’s?
    Didn't nobody wanna see that shit.

  19. #69
    If y'all thought 2020 was something, shiiiitttt, look out for 2021. Never would I ever think that fans of a person wanting more of the person they're a fan of would be perceived as such a negative. I don't believe this would've ever been an issue last year or the year before. This has to be some 2021 shit; some I can die now for I have seen it all, shit. It's like living in fuckin Twilight Zone.

    Maybe somebody should get Bettye Lavette up in here to talk about what more she thinks Diana should've done. See how y'all like that.

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I figured releases might be a problem for "Reach". In regards to DVD sales, when I see dvds of some of the most obscure stuff hitting the street, it's hard for me to fathom that there isn't a way to release Diana Ross related material, a singer who is among the most popular ever.
    but she among the most popular ever based on her activity from 40 - 60 years ago. thats when she had the hits, that's when she sold the albums, that's when she was on tv all the time, that's when she sold out stadiums. And they DID release stuff at the time. although the medium was somewhat new then, i had the VHS of her Caesar show on HBO. it was released because that the time, she still had the sales ability

    today she can still sell out a good sized theater. but not a stadium. at least not non-stop stadiums like she used to. all of her album and chart action today is a fraction of what she used to do.

    so yes, there is certainly drecktitude being released today lol and Diana's would be a lovely and wonderful performance if they did release it. certainly much higher caliber than the things you're seeing on the shelf today. but the fact remains she isn't moving volumes today.

    Universal is about delivering shareholder profit. they don't give a shit about artistic statements or integrity. it's about money. if they could turn a fat profit off of the release of an old DR concert, they would. even if they had to remove the MJ part and the other star due to licensing. but given their forecasting, they seem to think they can make more money doing other things.

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I figured releases might be a problem for "Reach". In regards to DVD sales, when I see dvds of some of the most obscure stuff hitting the street, it's hard for me to fathom that there isn't a way to release Diana Ross related material, a singer who is among the most popular ever.
    Absolutely. The s—t that does manage to get released is pretty astounding.
    What I don’t understand is why concerts such as The Forum were not released thirty years ago. Not only is it a fabulous concert, but also had the added bonus of featuring MJ.
    I believe Diana had footage featuring Mary taken out because she was furious that Mary had the audacity to attend wearing a rather similar white fur coat to hers.

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Absolutely. The s—t that does manage to get released is pretty astounding.
    What I don’t understand is why concerts such as The Forum were not released thirty years ago. Not only is it a fabulous concert, but also had the added bonus of featuring MJ.
    I believe Diana had footage featuring Mary taken out because she was furious that Mary had the audacity to attend wearing a rather similar white fur coat to hers.
    I was working evening shift only a couple of miles from the Forum the night of the concert. I was sad and jealous that some friends and a coworker were able to attend. They excitedly told me about it later. I didn't know it was being filmed for a major television special, that Michael Jackson would be called on to the stage or that Mary Wilson was in the audience. (Although, this being LA, I wouldn't be surprised if Berry Gordy, HDH, Ashford & Simpson and some Hollywood stars had been there, too.) I can still picture myself working that night.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by lucky2012 View Post
    I was working evening shift only a couple of miles from the Forum the night of the concert. I was sad and jealous that some friends and a coworker were able to attend. They excitedly told me about it later. I didn't know it was being filmed for a major television special, that Michael Jackson would be called on to the stage or that Mary Wilson was in the audience. (Although, this being LA, I wouldn't be surprised if Berry Gordy, HDH, Ashford & Simpson and some Hollywood stars had been there, too.) I can still picture myself working that night.
    You can see Suzanne dePasse and Michael Masser in the opening shot of the special. I believe Freda Payne was there as well.

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Absolutely. The s—t that does manage to get released is pretty astounding.
    What I don’t understand is why concerts such as The Forum were not released thirty years ago. Not only is it a fabulous concert, but also had the added bonus of featuring MJ.
    I believe Diana had footage featuring Mary taken out because she was furious that Mary had the audacity to attend wearing a rather similar white fur coat to hers.
    my guess is the timing of things

    while at motown, there really wasn't much of video market. YET. in 81 VCR's were so new and expensive, they didn't have a huge acceptance yet and so releases were limited. I remember seeing the VHS or Beta of the movie Grease and it cost nearly $100 in 1981!!

    then Diana was at RCA so motown certainly wouldn't have released this. Diana probably would have wanted the Central Park shows on vhs but frankly those concerts were not nearly as strong as they could/should have been.

    and then by the 90s, i think the US demand for a Ross vhs tape was seriously declining.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Diana probably would have wanted the Central Park shows on vhs but frankly those concerts were not nearly as strong as they could/should have been.
    I have to disagree with you here. Sure vocals on very few songs weren’t the best, or she may have sounded out of breath after singing and jumping around. Perhaps that may have been bad for a live album- but that could easily have been remedied, By cutting out certain songs. But visually these concerts were spectacular. Perfect for video. These concerts were deemed legendary and historic from the start. There would have demand for it to be released at that time. I suspect it not being released may have had more to do with the deal with the Showtime cable network.

  26. #76
    now i haven't watched the videos in quite a while so i might be mixing things up with other shows. but i thought she had a touch of raspy-ness to her vocals. certainly not anywhere near as bad as her Greatest Hits Live cd from the WO tour. but i didn't think she was nearly as strong as her forum show or the HBO Caesar show

    but you have a point. the video could have been "highlights" of the two nights. the first night is SOOOOOOOO memorable. and didn't she get about 1/2 - 2/3 of the show done before it was finally finished? so yeah, you could have pieced together a decent 60 mins tape

  27. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    now i haven't watched the videos in quite a while so i might be mixing things up with other shows. but i thought she had a touch of raspy-ness to her vocals. certainly not anywhere near as bad as her Greatest Hits Live cd from the WO tour. but i didn't think she was nearly as strong as her forum show or the HBO Caesar show

    but you have a point. the video could have been "highlights" of the two nights. the first night is SOOOOOOOO memorable. and didn't she get about 1/2 - 2/3 of the show done before it was finally finished? so yeah, you could have pieced together a decent 60 mins tape
    I don't think there were any vocal problems with the Central Park shows, maybe a few sharp peaks here and there. On the contrary, IMO, some of her best and strongest vocals were in songs like ENDLESS LOVE, MIRROR, MIRROR, and RIBBON IN THE SKY. At one point, her voice cracked during ALL FOR ONE but that was the only real noticable vocal problem that I remember.

    Re the first night, I don't think she got more than half an hour into the intended show when it began to rain and then she had to decide what to do, set list wise. There's a point where you see Barry Diller coaxing her to leave and she's telling her orchestra in the pit "Play something. Play a ballad. Play RIBBON IN THE SKY. Play ENDLESS LOVE." So she was really thinking on her feet and going with the moment. I think after about 45 minutes the plug was pulled for good and they decided to do it the next night.
    Last edited by reese; 01-14-2021 at 10:38 AM.

  28. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    I don't think there were any vocal problems with the Central Park shows, maybe a few sharp peaks here and there. On the contrary, IMO, some of her best and strongest vocals were in songs like ENDLESS LOVE, MIRROR, MIRROR, and RIBBON IN THE SKY. At one point, her voice cracked during ALL FOR ONE but that was the only real noticable vocal problem that I remember.

    Re the first night, I don't think she got more than half an hour into the intended show when it began to rain and then she had to decide what to do, set list wise. There's a point where you see Barry Diller coaxing her to leave and she's telling her orchestra in the pit "Play something. Play a ballad. Play RIBBON IN THE SKY. Play ENDLESS LOVE." So she was really thinking on her feet and going with the moment. I think after about 45 minutes the plug was pulled for good and they decided to do it the next night.
    yeah i haven't watched it in quite a while so my memory might be fading.

    with the first night, i think it started to look ominous about 20 mins into the show. then it started to rain. then it started to POUR. then the wind and all. I think you're right - at about 40 mins or so, it was done

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